More Help with L150A's: Tweeter & Crossover Swap Advice Wanted

So It looks like the issue with my 128H's has been sorted out. But, I was wondering what you guys think about swapping the tweeter from the 044 to a 044Ti? Two have just popped up on eBay. They are quite pricey, but will there be an improvement in sound? I rather enjoy the 044's. But I'm always on the quest for better. Someone on eBay is also selling "Improved" crossover networks for L150A's. I've emailed the guy to see what exactly he changed, but do you guys think there is room for improvement by changing them out? Has anyone ever changed crossovers on these and noticed an improvement? I'm not fond of the woofer running all the way up to 1khz. I've dialed back the mid ranges to about -4dB and the tweeters to -3 or so in order to make my ears happy. But, I've noticed that while those adjustments have made wonderful improvements in the bass & overall sound department, now the lower mid range is exaggerated and needs to come down a tad, hence my interest in those "improved" crossover networks. But I'm confident the JBL engineers knew waaaay more than I did about sound quality and the mathematics behind it all, so I'm looking to you fine people for a different opinion. :dont-know:

044Ti's: ~$215/tweeter
Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183905548718
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183905552403

Xover's: $~150/Xover
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153430117101

So it would be about a $750 investment into these things. Should I just sell these things for some 240Ti's? With what I'm almost prepared to invest and have already invested, I could have had the L220's I've always *thought* I wanted instead.. But I am quite happy with my L150A's actually. Especially if the woofers don't pop any more when driven moderately.

.
ain't no such model.

it's "240Ti" , no L

but it's also a better model that the L150a's in many ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97

.
ain't no such model.

it's "240Ti" , no L

but it's also a better model that the L150a's in many ways.

---

In which ways? Certainly not cosmetically, but the drivers appeal to me. The 128H's in the 150's are pretty acclaimed as is the 044Ti tweeter, which if I did the swap I'd have. Please go into detail as to why you feel the 240Ti is superior to the L150A. I'm looking to be sold on the backstory/logic to everyone's opinion, not just the opinion themselves. ;) If you (and anyone one else) would also give input as to why or why not you wouldn't bother with swapping components I'd really like to hear that as well.

I'll see about editing my post for the bad grammar. It's as bad as when someone calls a GM Vortec engine a "Vortex" or Dexron "Dextron." :rolleyes: EDIT: Well, I fixed my first post but can't fix the poll. Maybe a moderator could help?

I'm with SEAWOLF. LE14h-1 is a much better bass driver than the 128 + PR combo
also the poly mid has a smoothness about its presentation that is very appealing.
From memory the x/o is at 900 , more to your liking I suspect.

Thanks for your input, macaroonie! So what about component swapping with my L150A's? I'm thinking of replacing the 044 with the 044Ti, and perhaps the x/o network. Guy selling the x/o network doesn't implicitly say he actually did before and after trials using actual speakers and such so buying those has me worried that I won't be satisfied. Also, would the mid from a 240Ti fit in my L150A with little to no modification?

I like smoothness, definitely why I've got the mid & tweeter dialed back on my L150A's, just a bit too shrill sometimes but otherwise they're fantastic. Especially at lower volumes, the detail and such is remarkable. Even my wife will sit and listen to music all day.
Definitely regarding the x/o, 1khz is right where I typically attenuate down, that whole spectrum from 900hz-4khz tends to fatigue my ears when not right (to me). So far, the L150A's are probably the best speaker I've listened to. They weren't initially, I preferred my LX44's to them aside from the bass. But now that I've dialed in the tweeters & mids and cleaned the pots as well as bring more power to the table with the Marantz 510M & 3600 pre-amp, I freakin' love them. I think it was Chris who said the L150 series needs power to be appreciated and he was right. Biggest improvement made to the sound was power.

Derek;

If it were me, I wouldn't carve up the L 150. Its kind of like finding a cherry 1953 Olds Starfire, and the chopping it up to make a hot-rod. It has been a long while since I heard a pair but I think trading up to the 240ti would be a much better way for you to go. Not to mention that they are gob-smacking gorgeous.

You say you value smoothness, how about neutrality? I've only heard the LSR6332 once but I was stunned by it's ability to produce as neutral a sound as I've ever heard. 3 of those with subs is where I'm headed as soon as I figure out how to put them in a scandinavian-bauhaus living room. (WAF =0 ) In the meantime my 4410's are doing just fine.

Keep on listening,

Ed

Thanks for the response, Ed!

I have seen those before, forget when I looked them up.. But, I forgot to mention that the idea that got me spending money in the first place was to recreate a vintage set-up from the late '70's to early '80's. I don't mind the 240Ti's, just don't find them visually appealing as the L150A's, their faces look too naked without the grilles IMO. They also really look like stuff from a doctors office circa 1988... Whereas I love the look of the L150A's. Anyway, aesthetics aside, I feel that if I move to the 240Ti's I'd also be moving away from what I originally intended to recreate, hence the reason I'd like to experiment with the different drivers. I could live with the 240Ti's though, too bad there isn't a set here locally or someone who'd let me demo theirs so I can make a more educated choice.. I don't want to risk having a pair shipped and I refuse to buy used speakers again without listening to them first. I got burned on my L150A's, my biscuits are still sore from that haha.

Neutrality sounds appealing too. Whatever doesn't make my ears bleed or hurt is what I'm after. The L150A's are there, really. Just not sure if the 128H's are fixed, I'm afraid they'll still be poppers so I'm preparing to move onto something else if they are. If not, I might want to try and play with different drivers to make even more improvements. The 044Ti tweeters and 104H-2 mids might just give me that.. Might even try to move a x/o network from a 240Ti into the L150A with either drivers. Not sure, especially not if it means cutting up the L150A's. I'm with you when it comes to not modifying things such that they can't easily be put back to original configuration. I will not cut in anyway, but I'm not opposed to unfastening and swapping things. :)

Despite the current vote totals, you seem determined to mod the 150a's. The biggest attraction to them for you appears to be the visuals.

You brought up the idea of 240Ti's, nobody else did. They are essentially 3 way versions of 250Ti's and can often be had for the same $ as you are contemplating paying for just 044Ti drivers & xovers. Around here, L150 & a's don't have much value or demand.

Mac is correct that the LE14h-1 is a far superior driver. I have them and will attest to the fact that no 12 inch JBL that I've heard has ever beat them ..IMHO

IF you don't like it's looks, search for something you do like the looks of.

If the popping is happening with vinyl as a source, use a high pass filter (whether its called a rumble filter or infrasonic filter)... the L150 is capable of enough LF energy to feedback through the turntable suspension. More than many systems.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with the L150a that needs correcting, although tastes vary. I have both L150a (bought new) and 240Ti examples. I like both.

If thinking of transplanting the MF and HF from the 240Ti, you’ll 1) want the 240Ti crossover (it’s tuned for those drivers), and 2) probably have to deal with an LF loudness mismatch (biamp or turn down the MF/HF levels to match LF... now adding Lpads back in. I’m seeing limited returns down this path.

044 (incl Ti) series will not perform optimally without a replacement of a foam plug behind the dome. Doable, but a bit of a pain and not without risk. They tend to turn to goo.

If the “tweaked” L150a crossover is charge coupled (biased capacitors), that may be your best upgrade-wise.

Got a pair of JBL 240ti in ugly Golden oak cabinets with a full driver load in early May - serious Frat house beaters!
(I fixed the smushed in woofer-dome on the left right away - I'm an old hand at such improvements!)
Listened to them and decided I liked the sound but the golden oak finish was ugly and they were beaters!
But got a nice pair of original teak 240ti cabinets from BigYank, and swapped the drivers in -
now they are sweet looking speakers and sound pretty good as well!

Before

Attachment 84677


After!
Attachment 84672

Now - I HAVE considered doing some work with the Oak 240ti cabinets -
perhaps replace the front baffle and make some psuedo 4315 Monitors from them -
but I'd never hack up a a pair of NICE cabinets to do so!
I do have my principles.

I voted for "LOVE" them as they are, but not against purchasing 240Tis.

I've never hacked-up a JBL beyond the normal mods to the L80T of T3 crossover swap, duct extension, and extra insulation in the top. I'd much rather enjoy the good JBLs for what they are and simply own multiple models to enjoy each one for what it does best. If I found some I just didn't like the way they are, I'd get rid of them. But most have some redeeming value, even the L100. I now own the first pair of those I ever heard and I intend to restore them to all-original just to remind myself why I preferred my 030s over those 50-years ago.
:applaud:

:)

Derek,

Have you considered building your own? There is quite a parts market out there, and you could could come up with your own system. As for technical help and advice there is plenty here. But for all that is holy man, do not butcher those L150's

Keep On Listening

Ed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97

Despite the current vote totals, you seem determined to mod the 150a's. The biggest attraction to them for you appears to be the visuals.

You brought up the idea of 240Ti's, nobody else did. They are essentially 3 way versions of 250Ti's and can often be had for the same $ as you are contemplating paying for just 044Ti drivers & xovers. Around here, L150 & a's don't have much value or demand.

Mac is correct that the LE14h-1 is a far superior driver. I have them and will attest to the fact that no 12 inch JBL that I've heard has ever beat them ..IMHO

IF you don't like it's looks, search for something you do like the looks of.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Kreamer

Derek,

Have you considered building your own? There is quite a parts market out there, and you could could come up with your own system. As for technical help and advice there is plenty here. But for all that is holy man, do not butcher those L150's

Keep On Listening

Ed

---

Thanks for the responses fellas!

Well, it's two fold really; The period of gear I'm trying to replicate (Mid 70's - early 80's) and that appearance. The sound quality could trump those if the difference between 240Ti and L150A is significant enough. I am pretty dham happy with the way the 150A's sound though! They are the best I've heard so far. They are in demand apparently. Funny, I've got my LX44's for sale and one of the pics shows my L150A's in the background. Over the weekend I got a guy who wanted the L150A's and then asked me if I got them from the guy in Ann Arbor. Yep, that was me! Funnier still, I can't seem to give the LX44's away even. They're practically mint too...

Truth be told, I wasn't aware of 240Ti's when I was searching for speakers to fit the bill. I knew of L150A's, L220's, 250Ti's, L100's, L166's and the like. But I really also wanted a floor standing speaker, which puts the mid & tweeter right at sitting ear level. Around here, I've never seen L150A's for sale locally let alone L220's. Online though, hifishark shows recent sales within $200 of what I paid for the set I have. Which is a far cry from the perfect sets people seem to find at flea markets for like $200 or so they say in the threads I've come across. :rolleyes: I've never been that lucky in my life haha... L220's seem to go for $900-1,300 more than L150A's. However, 240Ti's are still very reasonable according to Hifishark. I'm not ashamed to say I'd pay $800 or so for a minty or excellent set of them. Main concern is I don't want to risk having a set shipped and that can easily exceed $150 to do so. Which means I'd have to wait for a set to turn up around here privately (within 100 miles or so) and that could take a while.. Which is why in the mean time it seems like I could have some fun and answer internal questions by modding the existing speakers I have.. The stores which sell vintage gear around here are absurd. Like double the price for anything that has a faint wiff of recognition, like say a Marantz 2275. With what they ask for a "good" one, you could purchase a minty 2325...

I am a bit determined to mod the 150A's, at least with trying the "superior" tweeters & mids from 240Ti's. Those look like they fit in the exact same mounting locations with the same hardware, so no cutting needed. All I'd have to do is swap those components over, listen and make a determination. If I don't like the result, swap the original stuff back in, no harm or foul right? I would keep the original drivers no matter what. But that's why I made this thread, I'm leaning one way, but have several routes I could take mapped out and want to compare and contrast those with the advice of you fine people. You all have been at this much longer than I have, I'm just a novice with free time and a wild[ish] imagination. Back to the swap though, it does seem that if I went forward with that route, I'd want the x/o network of the 240Ti as that was engineered to work with the two drivers I'd be swapping in. Or would it not matter that much? What else does a x/o network in the 240Ti do besides divide the frequencies between the three drivers? With that in mind and frequencies aside, are there any significant differences between the 240Ti & L150A x/o networks? I realize these may not be questions you'd want to answer but please help a dude understand more about what he is attempting to get into! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grumpy

If the popping is happening with vinyl as a source, use a high pass filter (whether its called a rumble filter or infrasonic filter)... the L150 is capable of enough LF energy to feedback through the turntable suspension. More than many systems.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with the L150a that needs correcting, although tastes vary. I have both L150a (bought new) and 240Ti examples. I like both.

If thinking of transplanting the MF and HF from the 240Ti, you’ll 1) want the 240Ti crossover (it’s tuned for those drivers), and 2) probably have to deal with an LF loudness mismatch (biamp or turn down the MF/HF levels to match LF... now adding Lpads back in. I’m seeing limited returns down this path.

044 (incl Ti) series will not perform optimally without a replacement of a foam plug behind the dome. Doable, but a bit of a pain and not without risk. They tend to turn to goo.

If the “tweaked” L150a crossover is charge coupled (biased capacitors), that may be your best upgrade-wise.

---

Thank you for the response, Grumpy!
This gets right into my concerns from above.. The popping seems to be from voice coil rub (judging from the cones that came out) and/or the former bottoming out. I honestly am not sure which. When I get my Marantz 510M back I will bring my E90's up from the basement and see if they do the same thing... If they don't, that is more fuel for the fire to switch to 240Ti's. But who says the 240's won't do the same thing? Am I really driving these things that hard with 256 watts? There's a dude on here driving his L150's with 700!

I do not know the LF driver that is in the 240's, so I can't compare sensitivity ratings but that is a great point. Starting to seem like it's not worth it and a total waste of resources. In my head, seemed like a great idea. But I did notice how elaborate the x/o network for the 240Ti's are compared to the L150A's. Ignorance is indeed bliss..

I did read about the foam in the 044 tweets. I brought my 044's to my reconer who did the 128H's.. I told her about my concerns with the foam and she put them on her oscilloscope to test them, said they were fine.. To my ears, they sound fine too. But I've never heard a set other than these so I've got no frame of reference. Plus, is that something you'd recommend I do myself? What type of foam should I use? What should I be cautious of? I'd hate to ruin these things.

So, which do you prefer, the 240Ti's or L150A's and why? What differences can you make out between the tweeters and mids? Also, pretty cool you bought your L150A's brand new. I would have loved to audition a set of these things factory fresh. What made you buy them of all the other speakers on display?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hjames

Got a pair of JBL 240ti in ugly Golden oak cabinets with a full driver load in early May - serious Frat house beaters!
(I fixed the smushed in woofer-dome on the left right away - I'm an old hand at such improvements!)
Listened to them and decided I liked the sound but the golden oak finish was ugly and they were beaters!
But got a nice pair of original teak 240ti cabinets from BigYank, and swapped the drivers in -
now they are sweet looking speakers and sound pretty good as well!

Now - I HAVE considered doing some work with the Oak 240ti cabinets -
perhaps replace the front baffle and make some psuedo 4315 Monitors from them -
but I'd never hack up a a pair of NICE cabinets to do so!
I do have my principles.

---

Thanks for the response, hjames!
Nice work! I wish I had a set of 240Ti's to audition and I definitely like the look of the 240Ti's in teak. The speakers look good with the grilles on, but not possible for us as we have a cat which still has claws... Funny how the L150A's look ugly (IMO) with the grilles on yet I think the inverse of the 240Ti's. The more I look at the 240's, the more I don't mind them. Do you consider swapping drivers to be the same as hacking up cabinets? If I did modify my L150A's, that's all I'd do to them, but I wouldn't swap low frequency drivers as that would mean hacking up the cabinet and would pose an engineering mismatch with the PR300..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMWCCA

I voted for "LOVE" them as they are, but not against purchasing 240Tis.

I've never hacked-up a JBL beyond the normal mods to the L80T of T3 crossover swap, duct extension, and extra insulation in the top. I'd much rather enjoy the good JBLs for what they are and simply own multiple models to enjoy each one for what it does best. If I found some I just didn't like the way they are, I'd get rid of them. But most have some redeeming value, even the L100. I now own the first pair of those I ever heard and I intend to restore them to all-original just to remind myself why I preferred my 030s over those 50-years ago.
:applaud:

---

Thanks for the response, MBWCCA!
I don't consider your mods to be a hack job though.. To me, hacking means modifying something to the point where going back to original isn't possible, at least not without substantial effort. You can put the original x/o's back in as well as undo the duct work and extra insulation fairly easily, right? Why I'm toying with the idea of swapping mids & tweeters on my L150A's. Although based on all the input I've gotten so far, it looks like I won't be doing that. It certainly isn't as appealing as it was before. So I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you fine folks for your input and advice. Sure is appreciated. Glad I joined the forum rather than stumble around blindly like a bumbling fool [that I usually am].

A set of 240Ti's came to my attention..
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...-way-speakers/

They don't have the original mids though, actually looks like they have mids from a L150A... How pricey are 104H's? I see a lot of 104H-2's for sale but not one 104H. Everything else about these seems original though. Would any of you guys bite? What would you offer and what's the most you'd pay?