4343+MC275+C22

Somebody is offering me these 3 (both mc275 and c22 are the commemorative editions) and I wanna know if any of you guys could help me with the following:
1) Has anyone compared the Gordon Gow Commemorative edition MC275 with the original 60's version to tell the difference? I mean, does the commemorative edition sound as good as the original?
2) The same question applies for the C22.
3) Has anybody ever tried these McIntosh amp+preamp together with the 4343s?
4) Idea of fair pricing for each of the 3?

People, I'm most excited about the idea of having such a sweet stuff at home :bouncy:, so please: HELP ME! If I'm gonna spend that much money I've gotta get it right! ;)

What is the asking price in US dollars?

-Storm.

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Originally Posted by Storm

What is the asking price in US dollars?

-Storm.

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Don't get frightened: $16.000! For the 4343s alone he is claiming $8.000! 4343s are hard to find here, so...
But this is the initial price and it will naturally sink, but I still don't know how much. The thing is they are in excellent state.
Apropos, do you think it could be a good idea to buy and ship the 4343s from the USA since they cost half the price there? I don't know how much the freight would be. Further on, in this case, I fear I might get some damaged/poorly-refurbished stuff :barf: and having no way to complain and get a refund :crying:, ya know?

It's all in your frame of reference. $16,000 to you may be like $400 to me. It's not often the money that matters but the marginal utility of the money. The college my oldest daughter goes to is expensive. I have another daughter starting college next year. If I sold every bit of hi-fi gear I owned it would barely make a dent in one semester's fees. So I keep it. But I'm not likely to spend $2,000 on any more stuff. $200 maybe, but certainly not $16,000. If you really want the stuff, it doesn't sound like money's the problem. Like most folks with a tidy nest egg, you just don't want to feel you're getting taken because of your ability to pay. In the end, what does a couple-of-thousand-dollars difference between instant gratification and being happy with something you can see before purchase, versus something you can't see, may not trust, and offers ample opportunity for disappointment really mean to you? If you want to feel good about how you spend your money and not feel you've gotten taken, don't spend the money at all and instead invest in philanthropy. Otherwise, you've got to pay to play. :)

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Originally Posted by MTAS

Don't get frightened: $16.000! For the 4343s alone he is claiming $8.000! 4343s are hard to find here, so...

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It's only money... but the really important question is, have you heard this system in a room that is similar to the one you will use it in? Did you just absolutely love it?

Personally a pair of 4343s driven by that electronics just wouldn't do it for me, but there are many who would be quite pleased with that setup. I don't know what other brands of gear cost in your part of the world, but for the kind of money you are talking about I would be buying speakers and amps from entirely different companies. The MC275 is very nice... the C22 is pretty but really not sonically amazing, and the 4343s... they rock at $2K, but for several times that they just aren't close enough to my ideal.


All that said, if you have really listened to this system and it rocks your world... go for it!


Widget

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Originally Posted by MTAS

Somebody is offering me these 3 (both mc275 and c22 are the commemorative editions) and I wanna know if any of you guys could help me with the following:
1) Has anyone compared the Gordon Gow Commemorative edition MC275 with the original 60's version to tell the difference? I mean, does the commemorative edition sound as good as the original?
2) The same question applies for the C22.
3) Has anybody ever tried these McIntosh amp+preamp together with the 4343s?
4) Idea of fair pricing for each of the 3?

People, I'm most excited about the idea of having such a sweet stuff at home :bouncy:, so please: HELP ME! If I'm gonna spend that much money I've gotta get it right! ;)

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I like the Set Mcintosh C20 in good Condition with an old 275 in good working Condition with the JBL4343.Very nice Sound.

I don't know the going price for the JBL's but the Mac stuff is out of line. The Mac 275 has been sought after since the mid 70's and always got BIG bucks especially in Asia, but that's for the original. I could never understand the interest because the MC60 mono blocks seem like a better choice to me if you need the power but they were never as popular as the 275. Go figure. In my experience lower wattage tube amps sound better like the MC225, MC30, Scott 222 and 299 series. Maybe around $3000 on the high side for an original 275 but a positively mint one with "great" tubes would bring more. A nice original C22 can be had for around $2300 or less. The reissue is of lesser interest but they sell. A serious Mac person wants the originals. I've never heard a reissue 275 or C22 but I have an original C22 and to me it's in the top 3 three of the vintage tube preamps. The Marantz 7 and Fisher 400CX would be the other two. Maybe #4 would be the HK Citation 1 and # 5 a pair of Fisher 80C mono preamps. I've read in several places over the years that the reissue C22 doesn't sound as good as the original but of course that's hearsay. Probably true but without having both checked by an experienced audio tech to see if they are both up to spec such comparisons are useless.

I've got an original PanLock C-20, one-piece-glass control panel, non-Old English "McIntosh", been through at least three McIntosh Clinics (35-years ago!), original manual. I could probably let you have it for, say, $4000. :applaud:
Just kidding (though I do own it: Ser.#6L021), the C-22 is probably a better pre-amp, even in re-issued form. Cross-talk on the old pre-amps is a real problem for use today. Even the Mac Clinic staff gave up trying to fix it after doing nearly everything else on it for free!!

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

In the end, what does a couple-of-thousand-dollars difference between instant gratification and being happy with something you can see before purchase, versus something you can't see, may not trust, and offers ample opportunity for disappointment really mean to you? If you want to feel good about how you spend your money and not feel you've gotten taken, don't spend the money at all and instead invest in philanthropy. Otherwise, you've got to pay to play.

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I quite fully agree. The sum, however, won't be easy for me to afford: I have 3 kids... But I do LOVE music (playing and listening to)!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

Personally a pair of 4343s driven by that electronics just wouldn't do it for me, but there are many who would be quite pleased with that setup. I don't know what other brands of gear cost in your part of the world, but for the kind of money you are talking about I would be buying speakers and amps from entirely different companies. The MC275 is very nice... the C22 is pretty but really not sonically amazing, and the 4343s... they rock at $2K, but for several times that they just aren't close enough to my ideal.
All that said, if you have really listened to this system and it rocks your world... go for it!

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I haven't yet but I'll listen to it maybe this weekend already.
Since you've mentioned it, which would be your favorite setup for this amount?

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Originally Posted by Peter Becker

I like the Set Mcintosh C20 in good Condition with an old 275 in good working Condition with the JBL4343.Very nice Sound.

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Vielen Dank für den Tip, Peter! Klasse! Mit dem C22 werde ich mal probieren...

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Originally Posted by DaveV

Maybe around $3000 on the high side for an original 275 but a positively mint one with "great" tubes would bring more. A nice original C22 can be had for around $2300 or less. The reissue is of lesser interest but they sell. A serious Mac person wants the originals. I've never heard a reissue 275 or C22 but I have an original C22 and to me it's in the top 3 three of the vintage tube preamps. The Marantz 7 and Fisher 400CX would be the other two. Maybe #4 would be the HK Citation 1 and # 5 a pair of Fisher 80C mono preamps. I've read in several places over the years that the reissue C22 doesn't sound as good as the original but of course that's hearsay. Probably true but without having both checked by an experienced audio tech to see if they are both up to spec such comparisons are useless.

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They'll have NOS tubes installed instead of the original "poor" tubes that came with these newer versions. All items will be revised by an excellent technician (he's an electronic engineer who used to work for RCA during the 60's).
As for the original being better than the commemorative edition, I've read (and heard) it too, but also the opposite... I'll have this row commented by the tech I've mentioned.

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

I've got an original PanLock C-20, one-piece-glass control panel, non-Old English "McIntosh", been through at least three McIntosh Clinics (35-years ago!), original manual. I could probably let you have it for, say, $4000. :applaud:

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I knew I shouldn't have let on about the prices :banghead: ...LOL...

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

Just kidding (though I do own it: Ser.#6L021), the C-22 is probably a better pre-amp, even in re-issued form. Cross-talk on the old pre-amps is a real problem for use today. Even the Mac Clinic staff gave up trying to fix it after doing nearly everything else on it for free!!

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Surely that's an advantage of the re-issue.



Thank you all guys for the obliging considerations! :coolness: Hope I may join you soon posting in heavenly remarks about music! :dancin:

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Originally Posted by MTAS

I quite fully agree. The sum, however, won't be easy for me to afford: I have 3 kids... But I do LOVE music (playing and listening to)!

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Three kids here, too. All daughters, and two in college starting next year. If I can convince them to elope I may be able to keep all my hi-fi stuff!

Best of luck to you in pulling the trigger! :banana:

MTAS, I too enjoy the combination of 4343s with tube amplification and believe you can't go wrong soundwise. One has to understand though, that JBL produced excellent drivers/transducers for these, and whatever you feed them with you'll get an exact response of your source material - good or bad. Also they will uncover every weak in your signal path without mercy. You'll have to get 4 drivers per box driven very well balanced, to get the pleasure of experiencing them as ONE mighty loudspeaker, and then have the sound disappearing from the boxes themself into a really awesome imaging.
Personally I believe now thats not easy (if at all) to accomplish with a single power amp per speaker. The improvement of sound via multi-amping is not a subtle but a major one from my experience, and highly recommendable for those 4-ways. Furthermore, one thing that doesn't help with this speaker design is the fact that the tweeters are not vertically aligned with the other drivers, in my opinion. Therefore, if the goal is absolute maximum performance out of these excellent drivers and your other parts of the chain are on eyelevel, you'll reach the limits of that box design - as I take it, then live with a little compromise for the sake of originality. Or you'll have to complement/mod parts of the system, preferably in a reversible way of course.
Also, would consider a (mcintosh) tube preamp a nice choice to power them, but would probably plan to employ the mac poweramps for the upper part only in a second step, later perhaps even for the compression drivers only.. and look for something more powerful dedicated to drive the woofers.

If they were my opportunity to buy them locally again, with all I know today, I'd do it, even if the price is very high - hopefully you can beat down that still a decent bit. It might be a 'once in a lifetime' chance to get such a combination at once in brazil. Btw, isn't it all relative? If your hobby was vintage cars you would have to spend ten times of that money for a comparable object.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck. :)

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Originally Posted by Fangio

MTAS, I too enjoy the combination of 4343s with tube amplification and believe you can't go wrong soundwise. ...
...It might be a 'once in a lifetime' chance to get such a combination at once in brazil. Btw, isn't it all relative? If your hobby was vintage cars you would have to spend ten times of that money for a comparable object.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck. :)

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I’d definitely have lots of fun driving around ‘ne “Pagode” MB 280 SL - rot mit cremefarbenem Leder - or even a 56-57 Corvette Convertible, maybe Venetian Red paint with Beige coves… :blah: But vintage cars are totally out of reach for the meantime! Anyway, music is more than only fun for me. Back to the thread: Some really fine support you gave me, Fangio (Juan Manuel?)! Thanks a lot!:applaud:

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

Three kids here, too. All daughters, and two in college starting next year. If I can convince them to elope I may be able to keep all my hi-fi stuff!

Best of luck to you in pulling the trigger! :banana:

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2 daughters and the youngest a boy from my side.

Thanks! I'll let you know if turns out to a real deal. :thmbsup: Good luck 4 u as well, BMWCCA!