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I recently aquired a pair of 250ti's and I'm curious as to what everyone else is using. I have a Spec 1 preamp & a Spec 2 amp (250 wpc). The amp needs a rebuild but not sure at this point weather I should invest money into this set up or purchase something else. For the time being I am using a KW Model 600 Integrated Amp (130 wpc) and I am relatively pleased with this set-up. All recommendations are welcome, Thanks, Bob
I have been using a 375wpc BGW amp , but have developed a hum somewhere in the system , so have been pushing the 250Ti's with a 85wpc Denon receiver until I can dig into the wire nest and resolve hum ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Bob
Both the big power and smaller power sources sound nice..the speakers dont seem to be really picky. had them on an Adcom GFA-555 (200wpc) for a while and it worked well too.
350W Carver or 400W Sunfire depending on the system. They do really like high power even at lower volumes. But it's when you push them that the difference becomes apparent.
Parasound 5250 - Good
DBX BX3MkII - better in some ways (Bass control), lesser in others (grittier highs).
Onkyo M-508 - Pitiful (no bass control, ran out of power really quick).
Thanks for your input guys and keep them coming. These 250ti's sound so much better then my 240ti's. I was really surprised by how much better they would sound with the same amp and thought the 250ti's would be starving for power but it's not the case. But I know if I want a lot more volume my amp will run out quickly. These also seem more placement friendly and seems like they'll sound great wherever you put them. All in all I'm thrilled with these and never imagined they would sound this good.
Welcome to the club .....I bought mine just before the general sale price dropped abt 25% , but no matter , I got the teak that I wanted and they were in vgood shape ...be careful moving them around as the veneer around the bottom sides will splinter and come off when brushed against carpet.....better replacement feet are recommended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Bob
wouldnt be a bad idea to check for extra 044Ti's , as insurance ...just saw one go on eBay for $50
ONE JBL L-044Ti high frequency tweeter driver (black).
Item condition:--
Ended:Sep 05, 201006:18:07 PDT
Sold For:US $50.00
It may seem silly, but they can benefit from a sub added into the mix.
There lots of threads around here abt the care and feeding of these beauties.
do you have pics yet ???
Hi Seawolf97!! Before they came off the back of my pick up I replaced the feet with new nail on sliders like I used on the 240ti's. I get them from Home Depot and they work well. Mine are on tile so I can move them easily around the room. The price dropped due to the recession? With my 240's I always have a spare driver to borrow. The pictures are a little blurry. These were taken before I cleaned & waxed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
Thanks
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...12/250ti-1.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...50ti-Right.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...250ti-Left.jpg
yes, I paid $2k and now you can get a nice pair in the $1500 range....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Bob
are yours upgraded to Ti ???? as they look like L250 cabinets, and if so ...the 044Ti is not the correct replacement driver.
250Ti's have 6 grommet holes on the face for the grills to set in and they stand out a little more from the drivers, where L250's do not have the 6 holes and grills attach with velcro.
This is the pair I bought. It was posted on this forum. They are L250's converted to Ti's.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
See post #7
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...2-L250-on-eBay
Akai boom box from Target! ;)
I am powering my 250TI's with two sets of amps. The LE14H-1's xover board is powered by a Yamaha PC2002M (260w). The upper drivers's xover is powered by a pair of Dynaco Mark III monos (with Curcio mods). I do have the special "Giskard" bi-amp capable xovers which allows this configuration. The combination of big transistor power for the lows and smooth/sweet tube power on top is just about perfect for me. There may be one single amp out there that can deliver the power I want down low and the smoothness I need up high, but I haven't heard it, I can't afford it, or both.
I've tried the following before I got the special xovers:
Carver TFM6-cb (65w) - underpowered and grainy
Carver PM-150 - more power but even grainier
Yamaha PC2002M - great until the volume goes up, then a bit too bright
Yamah PC4002M - OMG the bass, but similarly bright
Dynaco ST70 - this got me on the tube kick - amazing mids and highs, but muddy/weak bass
jblnut
That's what I'm using with my C40 Harkness :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JeffW
That sounds like an awesome set-up. I can see tubes on top. I'm going to have to find an easier solution though. I think I could live with a PC2002M. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jblnut
Thanks for you input. You definitely have the experience with these.
You could easily live with a PC2002M - I did for several years. It's fantasically accurate, reliable as hell and I just love those big meters :). It's only when you want to crank it that you might wish for a less lively high-end. But who knows - depending on your other equipment, room and music you may find it sounds great.
That's the fun of this hobby - there is no "right" answer or "perfect" system. It always about what sounds good to you, in your room, with your music. There's also WAF and budget issues to consider too...
You've got the 250ti's - now the fun begins as you realize just how transparent they are and how you can really hear component changes. Enjoy !
jblnut
I first ran a G-9700 Sansui, then a Carver M1.5T, then a Crown PS-400, then a pair of Crown PS-200s, and every now and then something else. A Marantz SR5003, that's when I went with the pair of PS-200s on the pre-outs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Bob
I use an APT Holman pre amp's 2nd set of inputs to switch between the Marantz's LR surround pre-outs and the CD player or TT, let the Marantz's amp handle the other speakers except front LR. The BR/DVD/CD player has 7.1 outs as well as 2Ch stereo outs that supposedly have better DACs or something, so I run those to the 1st set of APT inputs.
Sounds complicated, but it really works great for swapping back and forth without screwing with onscreen menus and stuff. Just a twist of a selector knob to jam on tunes with the TV on.
ETA: a pair of Crown PS-200s = Akai boom box 'round these parts ;-) , although some would give the advantage to the Akai.
Jeff what was your opinion of the Carver 1.5t? And were you using the Marantz as a pre for that? ShaanQuote:
Originally Posted by JeffW
I liked it fine, but after fooling with the Crowns, I just felt that they had a sound that suited my rig better.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaansloan
Yes, for a while. I had the 1.5T before I got the Marantz, and used it for some time after. Before, it was just the amp and the APT Holman preamp.Quote:
And were you using the Marantz as a pre for that? Shaan
All Yamaha
Bridged M-80's
Bridged PC2002M's
Bridged PC4002M's
Currently a Single PC2002M while some get revamped, sold, etc.
Considering full active 4-way XO using mix of
M-4 ?
M-2 ?
PC2002M
another PC2002M
PC5002M
Or maybe just the single PC5002M, it's such a brute.
The PC4002M is powerful and fast, but the fans are a tad annoying at low volumes if it heats up enough in a warm room. In a an A/C cooled room, I doubt they would ever kick on.
What can I say, Yamaha nut through and through.
Or maybe just the PC5002M by itself.
I saw the PC4002M you sold on AK. But I was too late for the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal
Day late and a dollar short. That's the story of my life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Bob
I recently upgraded my 20+ year old L00T's to Piano Finish 250Ti Classic Editions....my dream speakers since i dont know when. I run them off a close to 60Kg Plinius SA250 MKIV Power amplifier. It has 2x sets of speaker terminals so i am BiWiring my 250Ti's....absolutely awesome. They are definitely harder to drive than my L100Ts(250's have 6ohm impedance and lower sensitivity)but the soundstage they produce is astonishing. The SA250 is conservatively Rated @250W RMS/Ch 8ohms. In Class A mode it absolutely controls the 250Ti's with exceptional ease.
OOooooh... I lusted after that Kenwood amp in my youthful imagination.
I do not use the standard enclosure but all other 250Ti components are to spec.
I agree that an amp such as a good 100 watt amp with some headroom works well for the 250Ti. I am guessing (from your picture) your listening space is fairly large and open and this should have you looking at higher power. The thing about the 250Ti is that is teases you into creeping up the volume. It just eases along with each bump in output. Before you know you hitting heading up the power curve quickly.
I thought 200 watts was sort of the threshold for power. Have used the Adcom 555II (200 watts) mentioned. Good with the bottem end. Used a B&K 442 Sonata (200 watts) that can pull current to dim lights. Good sound overall. Lately I have used an ATI 1502 (obsolete model with 150 watts that can be had for not very much) with great results. Surprising, really. Clear and very dynamic. Now I have two. That old SAE connection, perhaps. Pretty sure I would not push the output in my space as I would in yours, however, so 200 watts or more may need to be high on your checklist.
Not sure what the budget is, whether you want to stick with vintage SS, etc.
The unholy, menage-a-trois offspring of the L250, 250Ti, and PT800 that grumpy and I incubated into the PT250 has this power behind it:
044Ti tweeters driven by first Hafler SR2300 (300W/ch)
904Ti mids driven by second Hafler SR2300 (300W/ch)
908Ti midbass driven by third Hafler SR2300 (300W/ch)
LE14H-1 woofers driven by Hafler SR2600 (600W/ch)
Each PT250 is managed by a four way electronic speaker management system (BSS 366T Omnidrive), and I can testify that my ears give out before the amps and the drivers break a sweat.
My office pair of L250s is bi-amped by a pair of Soundcraftmsen S400 amps being fed through a Soundcraftsmen AE-2000 thing-a-majig and that combo seems to have no upper limit as well.
250ti biamped bottom carver a-500x, top marantz pm14. Impressive sound.
My 250ti speakers are powered by a Parasound HCA-3500 stereo amp, 350 watts per channel into 8 ohms. Plenty of power for musical peaks and very solid, tight bass. I actually tried a McIntosh MC-275 tube amp on the 250ti just for kicks and I was surprised how well that combo worked-- its only missing some headroom for peaks and a little definition in the bass compared with the Parasound. In my smallish (13 x 22 x 9) room, I could get by with the Mac but I prefer the Parasound overall, especially for control of the woofers. BTW, my original 250ti are not bi-amp ready without crossover surgery.
The high end on mine are now powered by a McIntosh 275, with the big Yamaha continuing to fill out the bottom octaves. It amazes me that as I continue to move up the electronics chain, the 250ti never lets me down. I can hear the changes clearly and I am left to wonder " will I ever reach a point that the speakers themselves are holding the system back"?
Perhaps, but I will never part with them....
Jblnut
Tried a pair of k1's for a while and they were ok. After that used a pair of mono dc300's that was better. My favorite sounding setup turned out to be the cheapest , a good old hk citation 16. O I forgot there was.also a pair of urei 6290's I.used for one afternoon, they have loud fans, they are back in the.shop where they belong.
Just my 2 cents...
I use Crown Studio Reference for my 250ti.
Currently I am powering my Everest II clones off an iPod dock and they sound fantastic. It's nice to know that there is nowhere to go but up without any end in sight. :rotfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by jblnut
FWIW,
I'm back to a pair of bridged PC2002M @700WPC each. In my setup, these have worked out the best.
Also running a bridged PC2002M on my B460.
The PC5002M, while it sounds glorious, just didn't cut it with only 500WPC stereo for high volume listening. :)
Maybe someday I will get the "parts" PC5002M running and have a pair to run bridged, but I would have to run a line from the panel on the other side of the house to power them.
For my 250Ti's I ran a pair of McIntosh MC501's
my 250Ti's are on vacation right now however as I'm using the K2 S5800's instead!
Back to using the McIntosh MC7270 for the 250Tis and MC2205 for the Kinergetics SW-800 subwoofer towers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4313B
My first JBL "system" was a single (mono) 030 I rescued from the curb awaiting the Goodwill truck after my father bought a Fisher 400 and two small speakers to go "stereo". I ran it originally off of the earphone outlet from a ChannelMaster transistor radio. I recall being about 10-years-old at the time. Sounded amazing! :D
Can anyone say "headroom"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
:D
New old amp. Marantz PM 15 to drive the 250's. Havn't heard them sing any better yet. The soundstage is astonishing. I discovered a song that plays sounds from behind the back on this stereo setup. Nuts. Digging every album and single. I hope everyone could get an amp this good. I doubt a further upgrade is possible without spending lots more. Hopefully I'll be able to do a shootout with some top players in the future like the Accuphase E-460 which has similar specs on paper. Here it is:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...o/DSCN3194.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...o/DSCN3162.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...o/DSCN3200.jpg
In the past, I had a Crown Power Line Four.....not enough power, so I tried a Crown MacroTech 2400 to push the 250Ti's that were eventually destroyed in an '07 flood. :( The MT2400 sound was awesome, clean, really brought those 250Ti's to life!
After looking for the past five years, I finally pulled the trigger and purchased another set of 250Ti's. I just could not live without them anymore! LOL. Just received my latest 250Ti's this weekend, they are still crated.....and they may or may not need some work. I plan on using a newly purchased Crown Macro Reference, which I just had bench tested. Technician says "its a BEAST....a beautiful beast".
I will let everyone know when I get it all hooked-up!
Also....in the future, I may try mono block or bi-amping them.
Nice to see this thread alive again. It's been a year and a half now since I bought mine. I'm using the same amp set-up as member "Brutal" with 2 bridged Yamaha PC2002's @ 700 wpc with a C70 preamp. I removed one amp and the difference in sound between 240 wpc (1 amp) and the 2 units bridged was amazing. Needless to say I am sticking to the bridged version, I love these speakers!
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...al/BigRoom.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnes
The amp looks nice. Reminds me of my ma9s2's. What is the power on that? When was it produced?
It's from around 1994. Very rare in 220V. Specs mention 150WPC @ 8R, but the gentleman that overhauled it measured a whopping 185WPC of output. I hope to never let it go. I havn't heard a better amp to date. Even the knobs turn like on no other amp (ball bearings?). It just came in from Holland and I found both the phono and balanced input circuits not functioning so there is still more potential to uncover after I get that fixed. It's a heavy piece too. Here are some more specs and stuff:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/marantz-PM-15.html
http://audio-database.com/MARANTZ/amp/pm-15-e.html
Marantz MA9S2's and the matching preamp are the only amps I'd ever consider upgrading to mostly due to their appearance - on par with the pm15 IMO, plus their build quality suggests a possible sonic upgrade too. I will get those one day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnes
From The Vintage Knob (see specs at bottom of the page)
20Hz...20Khz output : 2x 150W (8 Ohm) 2x 190W (6 Ohm) 2x 250W (4 Ohm)
I have the Marantz MA9S2 mono blocks, SC7S2, SA7S1 with JBL 1400 Arrays. I do beleive the woofer is very similar. I would love to hear the 250's sometime.:bouncy:
I lived in, or near Seminole, as a kid for a while. I can't imagine how much water it would take to flood. Granted the area is surrounded by water and is likely below sea level in places. But it always seemed the ground was like a sponge to rain. I guess that's what a perfect storm and high tide can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarascortt
It is good see so many L250/Ti systems still in service and appreciated after all these years.
David...Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidF
This actually happened in Tallahassee, Florida. The city was installing new underground powerlines and broke a sewer main. We had 4 inches of raw sewage in our 1st floor. When I saw my speakers sitting in 4 inches of @%$*, I cried like a baby. We still have not settled!! :eek:
Oy. Yeah, that sounds bad. Like a total walk away situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarascortt
I have tried various amps with the Ti250's. John Iverson Eagle 7A two units at a little over 1HP.
Perreaux 5550B at 500 WPC and some Krell KMA 400's. Each 1 had some different sonic signature.
All though the Krell's have less power they produced the best results. Also many Crown's too.
Would it be wise to get a pair of Mcintosh 601 mono blocks for my 250 Ti?
Currently using an hk 16a, much softer than the crowns...
They love power! The more the better. The 601's would be an idea choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornholio
Mine are still on the 375wpc BGW 750D , but augmented with the JBL UB212 powered by a NAD 40wpc receiver...recently bought a cheap DAC and was testing with MP3's coming USB from a laptop.
Most of my friends don't invest as much in their gear, so I don't have a lot to compare with, BUT this current setup does everything that I need.
Cool this thread is still going. I'm still running my Bridged Yamaha's with 700 wpc. Great sound! Take one away at 240 wpc and they still sound nice but they love the 700. Those Mac mono-blocks Cornholio, would be the cats meow!
Still using the Parasound HCA-3500 (350 watts per channel) when driving my 250Tis either full range or when used with the Kinergetics SW-800 subs. I have tried Hafler 9505 singly or a pair in mono (700 wpc) as well as a McIntosh 7270 (270 wpc) but keep coming back to the Parasound for the JBLs. Using the bridged Haflers produced the best bass but I can't stand the mechanical hum coming from both of these amps. No easy way to move them out of my room without ridiculously long cable runs.
It's pretty shocking.Quote:
It is good see so many L250/Ti systems still in service and appreciated after all these years.
I didn't realize that so many people had such good taste.
I'm not sure that the handfull of us 250Ti owners who still post here constitute "so many" but thanks for the compliment just the same :-).
Anyone happen to know the total production run of 250's over their lifespan ? I'd be surprised if it was more than a thousand pairs.
jblnut
I asked Greg at the tribute dinner how many he thought were sold. He quickly quoted the number in dollars but did not know the unit sales. Sorry that the dollar number he gave us slips my mind. I could not fathom how to translate that into units sold and that number just didn't stick in my mind. It was a big enough number in dollars to equate to production of more than one thousand pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by jblnut
Crown Macro Reference......the 250Ti's sound amazing!
That I would love to hear!Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarascortt
I've always wanted one but I don't think my house wiring can handle it. :thmbsup:
Just to add to the list, I use a pair of Crown SA2 amps bridged mono. Maybe I'll find a way to listen to some other amplifiers, but Crown is all I've used over the past 30 years. I'm an Elkhart, IN guy and formed a loyalty to the company after working there during a summer break. Has anybody tried ATI?
Old thread, but having just acquired a set of single owner (now two I suppose), mint condition 250TIs after looking for nearly 5 years, I had to post something. After re-foaming the LE14s, I'm powering these beauties with a pair of Carver 240WPC Cherry 180 tube monoblocks and a McIntosh c2300 tube pre-amp. I've only been listening to them for a couple of days, but they sound amazing: Better clarity and separation than the L150As they're replacing. Not as punchy, but it'll be easy to get used to their less colored sound.
Congrats on a fantastic speaker!! They are really easy to live with for sure!! :)
The sound of the 250Ti can be a little deceiving at first. It will be really apparent how well it does when you switch back to something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by sutekh
Quote:
Originally Posted by sutekh
well, that's the thang with 250ti's ..... I worked my way up the JBL food chain (L100, L166, L26,L36.L86 etc,etc) and drove to BC for my 250's without ever actually having heard a pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidF
They were initially disappointing , having come from the punchy JBL bookshelves. but knowing their rep, I bought them anyway. Good decision. It did take a while to get used to them , they just seem so clean and uncolored now. And yes, their volume will scale up louder than I can stand without complaining.
I did the soak-on beeswax procedure and now they rather glow. Many see them and exclaim "WHAT are those ?" .... replacing stock crap feet is a MUST.
Quote:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by gmarascortt http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...post-right.png
Crown Macro Reference......the 250Ti's sound amazing!
Funny to note, since this thread has been revived, that I now own a Crown Studio Reference II I've yet to actually deploy in a system. Happy to own it and excited to try it but I just need some time . . . and maybe some 250ti's? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
.
I use a McIntosh C32/MC7270 combo. I like it.
[QUOTE = Greg86z28; 358916] J'utilise un combo McIntosh C32/MC7270. Je l'aime. [/ QUOTE]
I use a HK Citation 16 amp has a preamp and EAD theater master signing
I am pretty sure I replied earlier in this thread ( I use Perreaux amps) but wanted to add I find the preamp I have tried are just as critical , sometimes more. I have good success w/certain Adcom units, not all and trying a Yamaha 2095 currently seems ok so far , borrowed from a friend here at LH. If the money pit ever stops taking my money i have thought of acquiring something nice in 2 channel and another for HT use...weakest link in general
Lastly room accoustics. I moved from a house that everything just sounded bad to a one where the same set up sounds great!
Mark
+1!!Quote:
Originally Posted by opimax
I will second the preamp! I tried numerous other preamps and I was never really happy with any of them until I tried an Adcom GFP-750 and I have recently moved to a Levinson 380S and it made a huge difference. :)
+11 ;)
Room acoustics, preamps, it all affects the system once you start to really listen!
Paying more doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better sound... often times there is a correlation, but sometimes there are other reasons that something costs more. Basically there is only one thing you can do... give it a listen.
Widget
+100!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
Room acoustics is really #1.
Second IMO is placement, then you can start to tweak gear!! :)
+147 for Levinson with JBL. Once upon a time I encountered L250's with ML2 class A amps and ML6 preamps.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorJBL
Absoutely sublime
M
I still think one of the biggest improvements I've made was the C32 pre amp. Not as nice as some of the other gear mentioned here, but moving from a Pioneer integrated amp (SA-8800) to a C32/MC7270 was a huge difference for my humble system. I first used the C32 and the SA-8800 (as the power amp) and the difference the pre amp made was incredible.
when I went out to see the CL ad for the Ohm/Walsh F's (notoriously hard to drive , need mucho power and are marked 4/3 ohm) that I now own , they were wired to an Aiwa boombox (he wired L & R leads together to 1 speaker to try for more power) . I carried along a HK receiver in case seller could not demo. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffW
Good as the 250ti's are ...for me they do benefit from an added sub. I use a JBL UB212 UltraBass (the original design choice before they produced the B460 - AFAIH)
I know exactly what you mean. I've never used a C32, but I own a C28 and used to have the C22. None of these are a ML, but they are a real step up over a typical receiver or integrated, and stupidly better than a contemporary AVR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg86z28
Widget
So true... but it's so much easier to swap out cables. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorJBL
Widget
But those Kilimanjaro cables made such a big difference and they were only 1/2 price at $5K!! :rotfl:
A pair of monoblock Bryston 7B-ST's @500 watts each @ 8 ohms
Ok,
So my 250 ti are being restored right now, however will be using my upgraded Hafler XL 600 to push them. With 315 plus watts per channel should work well with these speakers. What do you all think? Will that be enough to work these 4 way speakers?
. . . Thanks,
Philster
Anything with 200+WPC will be terrific. More is better if you have it, but the difference will be small and limited to pretty high SPL listening. The Hafler should do nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster
Awesome! Should be good to go then. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes
When I was using them as my main set up I used a set of McIntosh MC501's. Now my K2 S5800's are on those macs. The 250Ti's are now connected to a pair of McIntosh MC754's used as mono blocks!
Question for the L250 folks. What are your preferable positions for the adjustable level settings on the back? Thanks.
And FWIW to be on-topic, I'm currently using a Yamaha MX-600U to power my L250s. I have a non-working MC2300 in my garage that I plan to use once I'm done restoring it internally.
Edit: Just let the genie out of my MX-600U, so now I'm using my McIntosh MC502. Sounds great.
I'd leave them at flat settings, especially if you have EQ available in your audio stream. But its all about personal taste. I always found the 250 to be pretty flat in the mids and highs, assuming no serious room issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Law