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These amps are powerful and reasonably priced.
However, their THD ratings (.5%) are dismal (??) compared with some of the more popular multi-channel HT systems rated at (.05%).
I have several pairs of JBLs in my main HT system. I'm considering an extermal power amp for the front pair which are 15s with compression drivers. This power amp would run from a new Onkyo muilti channel rated at 130 watts x 7.
Anyway, is the Crown 802 suitible for this purpose or is the THD too high?
Thx...
Usually a sign that the gear in question is questionable. Think about it, if a company makes two amps with similar specs and one is half the cost of the other... you need to ask why. I don't know anything about these amps, but it is likely that they are not as robust as Crown's more expensive amps... a feature that may not matter in your HT application. I would also expect that they don't sound quite as good, but you would really have to do a comparison. It is possible that the budget Crowns sound stellar...Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
The THD rating of an amp is essentially meaningless... 40 years ago it was a measurement of quality, but with modern amps it has almost no value... except as a hint as to the amount of negative feedback used to reduced distortion. For example an amp that has the specification of 0.0001% THD very likely sounds terrible as the designer probably used far too much negative feedback in an attempt to get stellar bench measurements.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Back to the focus of your post, will the Crown sound and perform better than the amplifiers in your Onkyo receiver? Very likely. Today's amplifier sections in these contemporary HT receivers are generally quite compromised. They certainly won't keep up with a stand alone similar wattage power amp or even a vintage two channel stereo receiver... how could they? They have minimal power supplies and pack 5 to 10 channels of amplification into a rather compact package. They certainly won't pass the FTC power rating system of yore.
Widget
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
:yes: Especially if you think about how much power supply that could fit in the box.
We started to answer your similar question here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...890#post214890
Yeah, I wonder about that every time I see a Crown I-tech 8000 putting out 8,000 watts, bridged, at only 26 pounds! But at over $7,000 I figure they probably know what they're doing. ;) The XLS-802, however, is 1,600 watts for about $500.Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
Well, I think that they are different kettle of fish and technology. Run of the mill A/V receivers use standard EI core transformers and basic rectifiction and smoothing. The laws of Physics have to pevail here. Good iron and capacitors take up space, no matter how you slice it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, but after years owning Fisher SA-1000 and Crown DC300A-II amps, the power and size of the I-techs just amazes me. But then they are 3.5" tall! I believe you must be paying for the suspension of the laws of physics, or the flux capacitor. Or maybe both? I didn't assume it was the same technology as a 7.1 Durabrand surround-sound receiver.
I guess the real question would be why Crown would even make a line of inferior amps and possibly hurt their reputation. Part of the answer is DJs and another must be Harman. The label on the back panel looks oddly Olympian today though: "Made in China". And, yes, the I-techs say: "Made in USA". :applaud:
The KA/SA-1000 was an amazing achievement, it's too bad there were so few made. The DC-300 genre was another milestone, for sure, but it's not (IMHO) in the same league as modern high end stuff. Crown provides product for a wide range of applications, from airport paging to whatever....Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
I think that Crown, like many others in audio and elsewhere (hello - JBL?), make products that cater to many markets. Buyer beware, is the rule of the day.
Two channel, high quality recordings are virtually dead. Of course this encompasses vinyl, CD and SACD.:(
We just have to get used to that fact and move forward. It sucks for most of us here, for sure. But, at least, there's plenty of used vinyl and CD's worth pillaging....
Charles.
I would not even consider it for home theater, for the simple reason that it is fan-cooled. Fan noise really gets on my nerves when I'm trying to enjoy music / theater.
I am using some older Crown amps: D series and PS series. I'm very pleased with them.
There are lots of folks who disagree with you about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
I respect your opinion, but it was phrased as a statement of fact.
I feel sorry for you since you're obviously not listening to anything Donal Fagen has worked on recently or the latest Nora Jones CD, or the first two Lizz Wright CDs. Or even the Beatles/Circque du Soleil "Love" album. There's lots of good 2-channel stuff out there. It just isn't being done by many new artists though I'll tell you the whacky dude Jason Webley's latest album "Cost of Living" and a South African named Yoav's "Charmed & Strange" are two nice boutique recordings that make me happy currently. I do agree that the selection is limited and makes it hard to enjoy or justify our systems if we had to rely on new recordings. But who needs new stuff when Showbiz Kids lasts over two hours by itself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas
Very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by just4kinks
I may be wrong, but I believe that the opinion I stated which I fully agree with is held by the vast majority of seasoned audiophiles and audio professionals. Beyond that, I am unaware of any study where a correlation between better sounding amps and lower THD has been made. Then again, I can think of one prominent "expert" who claimed to his death that he couldn't hear a difference between properly functioning high quality power amps.
Widget
PS: Thanks for keeping me honest. It is so easy to confuse broadly held beliefs and facts. For many years any poll of respected listeners would have come back that all horn loudspeakers are not Hi-Fi. Today that simply is no longer the case.
...so there are different models of Crown amps?
All I see on the web is 400, 600, 800 series...
You have to look beyond the music stores selling to DJs and local bands. They call those PA amps. Try Crown's own site for a start: http://crownaudio.com/amps.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
And this isn't a bad background article, either: http://www.stereotimes.com/amp031302.shtml
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
Actually I did buy the Beatles and also have Steely Dan's "Everthing must go".
Mainly, I like to buy used 50's and 60's jazz stuff these days. I just don't find much of the new music (and the recording quality) all that appealing. Maybe I am just becoming an old fart:D.
I don't think so. Most people don't like it, even the kids don't like it, but they are bored and want something to call their own so there you have it. They'd love nothing more than to have the ultra cool music we listened to when we were their age, but alas, they're screwed. It sucks to be them... :coolness:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas
Everything Must Go isn't too bad. If you're looking for quality of recording, anything from Fagen is usually superb but I'd also heartily recommend his solo work, or Two Against Nature. There are few rock recordings that can equal the quality and care taken by Fagen. Regardless fo how you feel about the music, Fagen's The Nightfly (1982), Kamakiriad (1993), and Morph the Cat (2006) are fine recordings. I recommend Showbiz Kids for excellent coverage of some of Steely Dan's best work that could be fit into the two-CD format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas
Some time ago in this forum someone linked to an article quoting Fagen about the current state of recording. Let me see if I can find it. Ah, yes; luckily I sent the link to my daughter so I still have it. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto..._high_fidelity
Cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
Well, people have been arguing about this for a long time. My understanding is that it comes down to a basic question: What do you want from an amplifier? Do you want sonic accuracy, or do you want something that sounds good?
THD is a measurement of how closely the output signal resembles the input signal. If you want sonic accuracy, THD is an excellent measurement. The problem with THD is that it measures both good distortion and bad distortion. Tube amps will add a little good distortion to get that classic "warmth" that people love about tubes. If you want an amp that just sounds good, and you don't care if the sound is colored a little bit, then THD is a useless measurement -- because it doesn't differentiate between the good distortion and bad.
IMO, I think an amp should be sonically accurate. I think that all effects and coloring should be done in the recording studio. I buy amps with low THD. Maybe I'm missing out on something, and maybe one day I'll change my mind and try the tube thing.
Now, to get back to the thread... AFAIK, solid state amps do not produce much good distortion, and the only time THD is a good thing is with tube amps. The thread starter is asking about a solid-state PA amp, and I would think that 0.5% THD is going to sound awful.
BTW... most of my perspective on this comes from reading solid-state amp books, particularly Douglas Self's "Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook". Maybe my perspective will change when I get around to reading some audiophile / tube-amp books. :D
I agree. I would go as far as to say that there is no "good" distortion.Quote:
Originally Posted by just4kinks
That said, I disagree about the relevance of THD specifications. Many amps with super low THD specs sound hard and glaring. I would submit that THD is a red herring number. There are differences in amplifier's sonic qualities and I do not think that a THD spec will tell you much. For one thing, THD like impedance isn't a static number. An amp that has 0.5% THD as it's spec may be one with very low THD up to a dB or two of it's rated power but the marketing department of the manufacturer wanted to call it a 200wpc amp instead of a 150wpc amp so he rides up the distortion curve a bit. The same amp sold as a 150wpc amp may have a THD spec of 0.05.
Widget
Mr Widget:
In 40 years or so of this hobbie, I would agree with the view that product marketing has a lot to do with power ratings.
Example: I have two HT receivers: a Denon w/100 WPS and a Onyko w 130 WPS. Without measuring output, I would guess the Denon has twice the power as the Onkyo. I assume this has to do with power ratings in relation to THD; right? Both amps are rated at .05% THD.
...anyway, so does the SPL impact sound quality too? My HT is played at a very low SPLs....
...if you had an amp with a realatively high THD rating, would it sound crappie at all SPLs or only at higher volumes?
Thx..
I doubt it has to do with THD, but it might. There are so may other variables here.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
For one thing, you say you'd guess it has twice the power. In many cases the compressed lower powered higher distortion system will seem subjectively louder.
Are the two receivers about the same vintage?
Again... too many other variables to give a clear cut answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Widget
One other observation. I recently bought a 500 watt "D" type amp for an 18 inch JBL sub-woofer. The amp is very light weight without any heavy transformer necessary. It also runs cool and has NO vents in the cabinet.
Anyway, this amp produces very clean low frequency sound. I like it very much. I assume recreating HF sound is more diffucult with a D type amp, however; right?
That's a very good point. Who cares about THD at rated power if you do most of your listening at 1 watt? You've given me something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
Another problem that I'm aware of is that some manufacturers only publish THD at 1kHz. THD generally increases with frequency, so a THD spec is incomplete unless it is made over the entire frequency range. For example, the spec on my D-75 is:
"Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): Less than 0.001% from 20 Hz to 400 Hz and increasing linearly to 0.05% at 20 kHz delivering rated power into 8 ohms/channel."
The DC300A-II is rated about 545 to 600-watts @ 8ohms, bridged, depending on range, THD, criteria used, etc. That's as powerful a D-series amp as they ever made. The D150A-II is 315 watts. I don't know if you were referring to High Frequency (HF) sound or High Fidelity, but the Crown D-series amps have no problem covering the entire audible range and many here use them in their home hi-fi systems. Just ask my 075s that have had nothing but Crown power through them since 1974 (D150, D150A-II, DC300A-II). The PS-series is really just a slightly updated D-series. The PS-400 is rated at 660W bridged, still with no fan, and it makes my L7s sing, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
I think he's referring to Class-D amps, not D-series.
Robertbartsch, you're right on about class-D amps. Efficient, powerful, cool, great for subs. I've heard that the modern high-end ones are good for high frequencies too.
You might be interested in Crown Class-I amps also.
I recall Widget making a similar comment about fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by just4kinks
If you put your amps in the same room that you listen in, then that is a possible concern. Nevertheless, there are many very, very quiet amps that have fans that are below my threshold of hearing, though my Hafler SR2300 and 2600 amps will make a barely audible sound during a quiet passage after being played hard for a while.
But I like fans. Amps with fans run cooler, and when you put those beefy components inside a metal container, heat will accumulate. Yes, fins and vents will alleviate some of the trapped heat, but only a fan (or fans) will both draw out more heat and cool down heat-producing components. these are both big plusses to me.
The easy fix for me is to do one of two things: put the amps in a separate room or closet, or put the amps in a hush box enclosure. I've done both.
TBT, in my current music room set up, I have three Haflers sitting in the rack looking for all the world like they're the iron that drives the two channel systems, but in reality I've some more Haflers sitting behind the wall that actually drive everything. All the minor fan noise and heat is two sheets of drywall, a 2x6, and 5" of insulation away.
My JBL Performance Series AVA-7 amp sits right in the HT, though it has two fans. I've never, ever heard them, even in the quietest moments.
Oops! You're probably right. Threads are jumping around quite a bit lately. In the words of Emily Litella, "Never mind". :slink:Quote:
Originally Posted by just4kinks
I think I agree with Widget in the relative unimportance of THD specs. (He'll tell me if I don't.)
It's widely accepted that we can't perceive THD below 1%.
If someone will write that he or she has exceptional hearing, that God or the great immutable Eternal or evolution gave him or her the blessing of auditory sensitivity above that of mere mortals, then boffo for you! Rather than challenge you to prove it, I'll just say count your blessings, but don't rub it in.
The average listener will never hear the difference between 0.1% and 0.01% or 0.00005%.
Let's also add that the distortion in a system is only as good as its worst bit or a combination thereof.
This thread is proving to be very interesting and useful; Thanks all!
Anyway; Hey Ti Dome:
If variations in THD below .1% are not determinable by mere human ears and gray matter, why do you suppose (more??), Hi-Fi (HT??) manufacturors don't use Class D amps in their multi-channel systems?
I assume this would allow them to avoid heavy and expensive power transformers and caps; right?
A few decades ago there was a "new" amp design called the Carver. I don't remember much now, but I thought it was based on a design that did not need heavy transformers or big caps. Was this the first Class D?
Thanks ALL!
These are the specs of the new Crown 802D amps:
Specifications
Sensitivity (volts RMS) for full rated power at
4 ohms1.25Frequency Response (at 1 watt, 22 Hz - 20 kHz)+0 dB, –1 dBSignal to Noise Ratio below rated power (20 Hz to
20 kHz, inputs terminated)
A-weighted, below rated power
No weighting, below rated power> 100 dBTotal Harmonic Distortion (THD) at 1 full bandwidth power, from 20 Hz to 1 kHz
> 95 dB< 0.5%Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) 60 Hz and 7 kHz at 4:1, from full rated output to –30 dB< 0.3%Damping Factor (8 ohm): 10 Hz to 400 Hz> 200Crosstalk (below rated power)
at 1 kHz
at 20 kHz–75 dBInput Impedance (nominal) (balanced,
–50 dB
unbalanced)20 kilohms, 10 kilohmsLoad impedance
Stereo
Bridge mono4-8 ohmsAC Line Voltage and Frequency Configurations Available (± 10%)
8 ohms120 VAC 60 HzVentilation
Flow-through ventilation from front to backCoolingInternal heat sinks with forced-air coolingAir Volume Requirements (per minute
per unit)80.15 ft3 (2.27 m3)Dimensions: Width, Height, DepthXLS 802: EIA Standard 19"W (EIA RS-310-B) x 3.5” (8.9 cm) H x15.2" (38.6cm) D.Net Weight, Shipping Weight
XLS 802: 35.5 lb (16.1 kg), 40.5 lb (18.4 kg)
For those of you who view THD as important or somewhat important, the Crown 802D is rated at 500 wpc x 2 into 8 ohm loads. The price new w/ 3 year warranty is around $500-600 USD.
The THD rating below is .5% THD from 22hk to 1Khz (????).
I have no idea why they would give this rating unless the amp was intended only for the low frequency in a bi-amp system, I suppose.
I have seen other Crown ratings of this same unit of .1% from 22hk to 20Khz, however.
...So we have some more confusion on THD ratings, I suppose.
Thanks....
If I hear or read one more person referring to a Steely Dan or Donald Fagen recording to use it as a standard of excellence I'm gonna puke.....:barf:I like them as much as the next guy, but if you heard a mixer walk in and put in a Steely Dan CD to judge the quality of the system as many times as I have, you'd understand....
Empirical proof of the validity of the claim? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rinkerman
Or urban legend and simply consensual validation? ;)
I don't have any MP3 files since, apparently, their sound quality SUKs.
I do have lots of DVDs with 5.1 THX, etc., however.
Although these are generally high quality audio, I am often dissapointed with the way the sound is MIXED.
The engineers seem to jam about 80% of the sound material throught he front channels and the rest is poor quality stuff that is feed to the other channels. Some recordings, particularily live pieces, sound like they stuck a $5 mic on the rear wall and feed that sound to the rear channels.
I'm I the only one is is not thrilled with 7.1 sound?
I'm not an amplifier manufacturer, so my caveat is that only they can tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Having written that, I'm not averse to educated guessing. I'm thinking some of it may be based on durability and longevity issues; some may be based on inherent sonic capabilities not related to THD, some may be related to marketing department requirements, and some may be related to target audience expectations.
One of the nicest sounding receivers I've ever heard is the Panasonic SA-XR10, powered by Panasonic's first-generation digital, Class D switching amp. After hearing several at the homes of acquaintances whose systems were pretty much el cheapo, I was really impressed with the unit's performance. I subsequently bought two of them, and I still run my S/2600 pair through one.
The slimline box, light weight, and mirror-finished front made it seem like it would be an underperformer. While lots of common folks bought it for its look and convenience, Panasonic lost money on every one I believe, because people wouldn't pay serious coin for something that was that small and that light.
Later iterations got thicker enclosures and some added heft, even though the boxes are mostly filled with empty space.
Lots of hi-fi enthusiast still equate big, heavy anchors with quality amps, so I can see no incentive for manufacturers to disappoint them., especially if buyers are willing to spend the kind of coin they're charging.
Not willing to spend the coin (bottom-feeder, remember?) though I did buy one of my Crowns brand-new back in 1974. But I am a fan of big-heavy stuff:Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...DSC_0231_1.jpg
and I often find myself in good company :D :
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...wnampscopy.jpg
I went through the Crown web page recently; I don't beleive they make any big heavy amps anymore; right?
I asked a sound engeneer about this recently and he said ..."those days are gone."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
I'm assuming you can answer your own question if you looked at the Web page. You probably know more about Crown's current offerings now than I do. My comment was in direct reference to a small, light consumer receiver that in fact implemented a Class D topology that couldn't recoup its costs due to consumer perceptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Most hi-fi enthusiasts and and audiophiles won't have professional gear in their racks or rooms.
OTOH, those who spent a year or two in the road warrior sound reinforcement business welcome lighter, cooler, smaller amps for a number of reasons.
If you take a high end audiophile-grade amp, it's de rigueur that it will be lusted after more if it's bigger, heavier, has more big cooling fins, and maybe a single, sexy LED indicator. In many cases it will even be prominently displayed on a low platform between the speakers.
I don't know that many of us would do that with our Crowns, Haflers, Mackies, Crests, or QSCs.
Why ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
I treasure my pro gear, many on this forum lust after 43xx and 44xx speakers. I'm not argueing, but dont understand your statement.
I believe the point T-dome was working was that most audiophiles today are posers who value the look of a vacuum tube and bells and whistles over real performance. Or at least that if it don't look pretty, it won't get bought by the $5,000-interconnect guys. I'm taking the tact that it wasn't a slam at the objective utility of some pro gear used in a home setting, or even the plane-Jane appearance of your BGWs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
Plus, have you ever seen someone with one of those hi-fi shrines who had a pro Crown (or other pro unit) perched gloriously on that little altar in the middle? These are no doubt very fine systems, but they make my point.
All I'm saying is I've never seen a Crown or a Hafler in one of these glorious-looking set ups. If I had one of these guys or gals over to my house and I had one of those 5" high Haflers with powdercoat finish and gain controls on the front sitting on a little amp altar, they'd have a hard time not laughing at me.
(Of course, you understand, I could give a sh!#, right?)
Now, compare those with my "audiophile stack" as related in this thread:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=11795
:D
Hah! The paint on one of my DX4200s is coming off the back panel. Though I might have to get some peeling handles just to disgust snobby friends. As if the lamp cord doesn't perform that function already!
As they say in sports-car racing: When the green flag drops, the bullsh*t stops.
I like the older Crown amps and use them in my set-ups. No cooling fans, good sound, reliable as hell, easy to get serviced if needed.
Back in the day weight was a factor when all you had was class A, AB amps. Same with speakers before Neo Magnets. Weight is fuel and at these prices the more pounds you can shave off the better.
Rob:)
Heck, my first Crown looked like this (eBay photo, not mine) and I still have it. Used to just keep it in the closet, but not because I wasn't proud of it. I bought it new in '74, still use it today, and it still sounds great. Back then Crown knew college students would rather eat than buy front panels! My how times have changed. Now they'd rather have bells, whistles, lights, and only enough power to reproduce their MP3s.
What's wrong with a fine set of blackfaced amps?
Not enough lights! :applaud:Quote:
Originally Posted by hjames
I don't wanna hear the lights, I wanna hear the MUSIC!Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
Hear , Hear !! :applaud: :applaud:Quote:
Originally Posted by hjames
I gots 450 WPC and dont need no stinkin' lights !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
( only Posers NEED lights)
They can be used, only placed in adjacent room away from the home cinema and all the cables leading from amplifiers to the home cinema. Therefore no fan noise would be heard, just as if it was a cinema, all the equipment is isolated. But even if you stack amplifiers that don’t have any cooling fans, they would still produce a mild transforming humming sound, and that would drive my nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by just4kinks
I bought the new Crown 802D - 500wts x 2 into 8 ohms. Price = 500 clams.
I have not installed it yet, but I did take the cover off to view the internals. There are 20 output transistors mounted on heat sinks, some massive caps and a huge and low profile round heavy copper coil power transformer. ...one large old-style circut board contains some typical electronics - resistors, etc.
There are no micro chips that are visible from the top.
The unit weighs 29 pounds.
Anyway, I assume this is not a G series amp.
I'll post some listening comments about its performace next week, I suppose.
Not this one? http://ebayitem.com/120291900154Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Like everything else these days; Made in China. NTTAWWT, they do a great Olympics: Only one dead American and they made a 9-year-old sing backstage while another child lip-synced because her face was prettier than the singer's.
It's DJ amp. Are you using it for subs? Looks great. Let us know what you think.
BMWCPA:
Nooo, but I did see that ad on Fleabay and was going to bid but figured it would eventlually go for 4 - 5 hundred, so I was surprised at the final price of 2 hundred and change! Live and learn.
If you have not been fleased on FleaBay, you have not lived!
Anyway, I found many consumer reviews of this amp written by folks who use them in their HTs. The reviews have been very favorable, so I will hope for the best. No reviews I saw discussed cooling fan noise, however so I'm hoping the wind mills only kick in when the amp is driven hard.
The input connections on the Crown are causing me some pain - 3 pin mic jacks which will plug into my Onkyo using standard RCA jacks. I need to slice and solder the wires, so this will take some time.
Does this help: http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/co...xlr-rca-1.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Balanced:
http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/co...es/XLR-RCA.gif
Unbalanced:
http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/co...s/XLR-RCA2.gif
Or something like this available at most pro-sound shops:
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...2029&sku=40045
Or, if you like, a simple adapter for a couple of bucks:
http://www.geekbro.com/itemImages/it...703704-1-f.jpg
http://www.geekbro.com/index.cfm/hur...rce=GoogleBase
Disco DJ man!
7.1? I'm still trying to figure out 2.0. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
Anything more than that is for the video folks....;) >2.0 has nothing to do with the reproduction of a musical event, IMHO.
3.0 would be really nice if it was a standard in the music industry...
OK, so I have had the Crown XLS 802D for a few days now. It is connected to the front channels and is being driven by an 805 Onkyo 7.1 receiver (rated at 130 watts x 7) through its front pre-amp out termninals.
I have listened to several music DVDs in 5.1, 7.1 & 2 channel stereo, movies and digital cable TV.
The two front speakers are JBL 3-way (2226h 15" woofer, 2426h, 1 inch compression driver, and 2504 slot tweeters.) My rear channels and surrounds are JBL 12" studio monitors. My center channel is an Altec 902 compression driver with two "Kliphorn" 5 inch cone drivers crossed at 800 hz.
My thoughts on the Crown amp as compared with the sound from the Onkyo integrated receiver follow:
1. The sound from the two Crown cooling fans is VERY loud. So loud, I disconnected the fans for the test. The amp, including the internal heat sink fins are running cool to the touch without forced cooling. At this point, I assume my alternatives are to (1) install a pot to regulate the factory fans, (2) install a thin quiet external fan similar to the one I am using on the receiver, (3) go without forced air cooling.
2. The Onkyo pre amp output signial is not capable of driving the 500 watt x 2 amp (8 ohm load) into clipping which is indicated on the Crown front pannel with LEDs.
3. The amp is capable of driving the speakers to very high SPLs in a moderate sized room. Again, with the pre amp cranked to the max, it is not possible to drive the amp to the point of clipping.
4. The bass is deep and convincing on every source. In this regard, I do not rate it as better than the Onkyo, however, and I am surprised at this finding since Crown amps have had a reputation for strong bass.
5. The mid and high frequency source material is where I am recognizing the most contrast compared with the integrated amp. I am able to hear material on well known DVDs, for example, that was not reproduced with the Onkyo. The headroom seems endless and the dynamics between the softest and loudest passages is impressive.
In all fairness, the test would be better after a few weeks of comparision, so I may add some additional comments latter.
Hosa GXM-133 RCA Female To XLR Male Adapter - Female-To-Male Condition: NEW MSRP: $11.00Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
PRICE: $3.44
I've never heard of an RCA female or male.....they're kinda both.
Hmm. I guess you should have bought an amp better suited to your use. I think lots of folks tried to tell you this was a commercial DJ amp designed for loud venues and not so critical sound reproduction. That being said, you're not giving it a fair shake since you're probably not giving it a hot enough signal from your HT receiver output. It's been said often on this list when folks complain about how much "louder" their Brand X is than a Crown amp with higher power rating. If you're not feeding the beast enough, you won't get maximum performance. Nearly every point in your five can be explained with the sentence: You bought a commercial amp specifically designed by Crown, built in China for, and specified for use in, "portable PA" systems. Is that what you have? And do you know you've got it hooked up right? Just for your info, none of the six systems I have running Crown amps can drive the Crown into clipping, or IOC alarm mode, at least not with my ears in the room. That's not a defect or a drawback. You're not SUPPOSED to run the thing into clipping!Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
I doubt you're using anywhere near the rated output of your new Crown, but it might not be the best match for your front-end and the fans want to be in another room, or closet. Cheap power is what you bought. I suspect you would have been happier with a nice used PS-400. Even re-certified by Crown it wouldn't have cost you as much.
Don't feel bad; many people have never seen one with the foreskin still on it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
???? You have never seen a Female/Female plug to patch two cords together?? It's an easy way to add an unbalanced XLR plug to an existing cable.Quote:
I've never heard of an RCA female or male.....they're kinda both.
Rob:)
OK, so it has been 3 weeks since the Crown LSX 802 has been in my 7.1 HT serving an external power amp driving the front two channels in the system.
I'm begining to really appreciate the big head room, clean sound and effortless peformance by the unit (500 watts x 2 into 8 ohm loads). As I memntioned before, I disconnected the fans which were very noisy; the unit runs cool to the touch, however.
All-in-all, it has been a decent acqusition for my system. Right now, I'm considering weather additional purchases of more Crown amps makes sense for me.
I'm leaning aginst the additional acqusitions at the moment since the quality of typical program material that is mixed in the studios for the rear and surround channels is not high IMO. That is unfortunate, I suppose.
So I've owned the 802 Crown for a few months now.
Every time I use it it seems better than the last. It is driving a pair of professional series of drivers that includes a 15 inch woofer - 2226, a HF compression driver - 2426 and a slot tweeter.
Anyway, this amp is rock solid.
After disconnecting the fans, I have no complants. ...it runs ice cold!
Hey, Robert,
Congrats on your Crown amp, which sounds like it's working very well for you. I have two old Crown DC300A's, which work quiet well, and an older DC300, which, while it works well, is a little noisy and produces a bit of "hum" when working. Not too loud, but enough to notice, if you listen for it. In any case, I love Crown amps, and the older ones just seem to keep on cranking out that good, clean power. Have fun with your's, and God Bless!
Every Good Wish,
Doc
ME TOOOO!Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mark
I LOVE VINTAGE CROWNS, I use a 1978, DC-300A, first run with the then new IOC indicators on my six JBL 2in drivers and horns.. I have older Crowns, BUT I like THESE for whatever reason!
NEW CROWN! I LOVE I TECH AND THE NEW MACRO TECH I SERIES for SUB BASS! All I can say is 468% TOTALLY CLEAN, an HITS LIKE HO-LEEEEEEEE_ F_________IN S______________T!
Crown, They still rule the RACK ROOST at Coney Islands ELDORADO!
ELDORADO AUTO SKOOTER, Inc.
c/o mr. Scott Fitlin
1216 surf av
Bklyn, NY
11224
BUMP, BUMP. BUMP YOUR ASS OFF!
:bouncy: