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Looking for a nice preamp in the under $200 range.
I have a Hafler dh101 that I like the sound , but it is very basic and has limited ports..
Also have a Yamaha C-4 , lots of controls, but I've never really liked the sound.
Ideally looking for a BGW 203 control center, but they are very hard to find.
Almost had a Musical Fidelity pre, but the seller crapped out.
What do you all like in that price range ?
:no:Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
I've not found anything with good functionality (nor proper grounding!) in that price range. Even on eBay, there are no bargains on good preamps...
so..what do you like ?...I'll do the searching , pretty good at finding bargains outside of eBayQuote:
Originally Posted by boputnam
If you don't mind that its not a straight forward preamp and has all sorts of useless surround sound stuff the Sony TAE-1000ESD is a great piece.
hello
I had a carver C1 nice preamp with god phono MM and Mc , can be on ebay for a very reasonable price
Adcom also on ebay the G555 or G565
much much better is a tube pre especially with tube phono if you listen to vinyl but cost 1000 $
Gerard
Nakamichi CA-5All. My Carver CT-3 didn't even come close.:)
I got a Nakamichi CA-5 and it kicks major bootee'!Quote:
Originally Posted by JSF13
:)
-Storm.
I would like to stick with a straight 2 channel and avoid unneeded circuitryQuote:
Originally Posted by pelly3s
Nak, IMHO , (flame suit on) is pretty, well designed , but unreliable. Every piece of Nak gear I've ever had has had glitches. Carver too..and NAD, for sure, and even Luxman.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSF13
Have been told that on my upcoming trip,,lots of high qual gear is available at bargain prices, so the $200 limit that I originally quoted is out the window.
What do you consider to be sweetest ? best build ? best bang for the buck ? most reliable ? The one that you lust after ?
At this point, I've ruled out MacIntosh and Nak and Yamaha and anything black plastic. Remote would be nice , but not a necessity.
Why not get a good front end switch box seeing you like the Hafler?
We will probably never see the likes of the Hafler for a quality a bargin prices again and whatever else you consider will have a different sonic signature.
If you can find one the early Threshold preamps (SL10) are excellent but these days the collectors gems.
http://outlawaudio.com/products/990.html i wouldnt mind one of those
I second that recommendation... the SL10 was and is likely still an excellent preamp... the Threshold stuff of that era will take abuse and still remain in spec as well as anything NASA has ever built. I owned a Threshold NS10, the forerunner of the SL10. It too was well built but didn't sound quite as nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
Widget
I'm considering the preferences you mentioned, foremost the Hafler 101. From that, the first preamp I'd look for, would be an APT Holman. You can pick one up cheap if you are lucky. I just looked at eBay and a few sold for between $107 and $350. If you have a few extra bucks, take a look at the Marantz Model 7T and if the Marantz appeals to you - but its over-budget, you might look around for one of the later, Sun Valley Marantz pre-amps or even one of the integrated amps with pre-main plugs and just think of the extra power amp as a bonus. Yes, it's totally subjective but the Hafler 101 has been part of my journey.
Seawolf97,
Have you tried the 80s Nak stuff?
What is so wrong with it?
;)
-Storm.
I looked this up on 'da Bay...series 1 looks more interesting than series 2. Can you give me your thots on this , P.Warner ? It is handsome, but of course appearances tell you nothing about sound/functionality.Quote:
Originally Posted by P.Warner
I do have the Yamaha CX1. It has no gimmicks and no loudness. It also does not have "audiophile circuitry". It does have buffered inputs and a remote control, and it accepts moving magnet and moving coil phono cartridges.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
Ruediger
I am sure the Nakamichi CA-5 is good, but anything without black plastic will certainly scale down your options.
Got up and pulled the Yammy c-4 today. It must be out of spec. I replaced it with the Haf and noticed a fair improvement of clarity.
The Yam is about twice the size and weight, so I assume bigger/better caps, but it was a step backwards...
Haf will do me just fine until I get to where the better gear is at my prices :)
Sometimes we decide to get something new, just for the sake of something new. This, when coupled with somebody wanting your old thing, is the best way to demonstrate how foresight can never catch up with hindsight. Thus I gave up my APT Holman (series1) and I really shouldn't have. Now, I've got a dozen other preamps to forfeit before I can justify getting another one again.
I can't compete with those who can describe audio gear the way an oeneologist can pin down a certain Bordeaux so I'd suggest you peruse the reviews here: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/ampli...6_1591crx.aspx
Couple of good tips in there about updates, aging and a muting circuit fix.
If you want quality and flexibility Mcintosh is a good model.
But then again it's very costly.
...................................
I think we already covered that. He does not want Mac stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by CONVERGENCE
;)
-Storm.
just watched one of these go over $250 on ebay....going to look at one -series 1- tonite on a CL ad...............orig owner with box and manual , have pre-agreed on $80 with 4 day guarantee.....not too much downside.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by P.Warner
thanx for the tip PW...
Pioneer once built very fine systems, known as Urushi design.
Have a look at http://www.elitestereo.netfirms.com/.
The interesting models are C-72, C-73, C-90 and C-91.
Ruediger
If you like your current preamp except that you find yourself plugging and unplugging gear to listen to stuff you could add passive outboard switching cheaply and easily.
I'm not sure if you're looking for a "vintage" piece of equipment or something a little bit more modern but a couple of oldies that I've had great luck with (as well as great sound) are the Hafler DH-110 and the NAD 1020.
The NAD 1020 is, I believe, the same preamp that was used in their model 3020 receiver which is considered to be a true classic by many. I had one (the 1020) for many years until I acquired the Hafler. The guy I sold it to is still using it today.
I used the Hafler for many years as well, mostly with a Hafler DH-200 power amp. I still have both the preamp and the amp and still use them on occasion.
I presently am using a Yamaha CX-630 preamp. That too is a nice one but does tend to be somewhat more pricy.
Good luck.
Bought the APT-Holman......it was immaculate, in original box with manual. Wud think it was new from appearances. Gets rave reviews from around the net.
Hand built by Thomlinson Holman , who is the "TH" in "THX". Has twin o/ps and many interesting controls that I had not seen before. Very heavy.
Manual has pages of impedance references for different tone arms and carts. Too bad I'm not running vinyl. Maybe this will get me going back that way. Has original unit test sheet with hand entered values. USA made.
Hope it tests out as good as it looks. Have until Monday to return , hope not to do.
thanx all for the suggestions. :applaud:
nice buy...give the switches a good cleaning if not already done...the phono section will drag you back to vinyl give it a try...lots of controls to play with...enjoy
sounds great,,,no problems,so far ..listening impressions to come......
havnt seen many test reports with my Best Buy china made gear lately:(
from Wikipedia:
THX sets strict standards for high quality sound and images.
According to Tomlinson Holman, the inventor of the THX system, the name of the technology was deliberately chosen because it contained both a reference to his name, and to Lucas's early film, THX 1138. The original name was "Tom Holman's Crossover" or the "Tom Holman eXperiment" (Crossover being sometimes referred to as Xover).
Bo - I respect and value your opinion , but was happy to find a bargain on good preamps anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by boputnam
I also avoided the black plastic and found a very solid metal , meticulously built unit that has the feel of aircraft instrumentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Holman feels like a labor of love...it really blows away the Hafler (which I will keep as a backup , but sell the Yam c-4).
To start: the manual is 49 pages (no Spanish,French,Arabic or Nigerian - just English).
It goes into circuit design - philosophy and execution , types of switches and why the designer picked them, schematics, dealing with RFI and of course ..operating instructions......I was browsing the Stereophile web site and they have lots of polls ...1 was : "What is the best and Worst stereo products" ??? 2 people answered that the APT/Holman preamp manual was the best manual they had ever seen.
On my other receivers and preamps, crosstalk between sources was always a problem..on the APT, the unused channels go to ground when not in use and there is no crosstalk at all.
Also on all prev eqpt, I cannot run at minimum volume (when I get up early and don't want to wake the OL) without 1 speaker dropping out. The APT does this just fine.
Has 2 phono i/ps ...can adjust for resistance and capacitance for MM and MC carts. There are hidden LR trim pots for each cart separate from the master balance.
2 phono , 2 tape , 2 aux , external proc as well as 4 channel assignments. an interesting imaging mode control that will blend from pure mono to absolute discrete channels.
The bass has a separate "shelving" mode..to where the bass knob controls the master bass or just mid (100hz) and higher.
On the rear are 2 main outs , 5 accessory outputs, 18vdc jack ( ? ) , infrasonic filter in addition to all the standard ones.
It is so good that I've turned off my beloved SRS and Eq. have yet to find any real faults with it. At 10 pounds , its a heavy , solid , no black plastic , great piece of gear in my price range (with box and manual) that I'll prolly keep a long time....:D HIGHLY RECOMMENDED (If you can find one at a reasonable price) thanx again for the pointer to it, PW.
Hello
If you like the Hafler sound take a look at the DH110 preamp. It has has a couple of extra inputs and routing options over the DH101. I have a DH110 and a DH100 and have a preference for the DH110 sound quality. Not the 100 is bad but the full discreet circuitry of the 110 does something or does not do something to the signal.
I just did a quick ebay search and found two DH110's up for sale ( not my auctions)
Mike Caldwell
I am very happy with the APT/Holman unit , no issues at all, BUT the fabled BGW 203 preamp came up on eBay this week (only the 2nd in a year - thanx for the tip, Loach71) so I bid and won. Will prolly be a week before I see it, but then can A/B with APT . keep the better of the 2 OR save one for backup ?
Now, I've got too many preamps.....will have to sell the Yamaha C-4 and the Hafler DH-101.:(
If interested...PM me.:D
[quote=Storm;178620]I think we already covered that. He does not want Mac stuff.
;)
If you want to use a preamp that's not too expensive, I can highly recommend
you the harman citation 17.
It sound s very well with my 4350 studio monitors.
A well maintained and serviced piece can, in my opinion, easily compete with
some of the Mac's.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAU...ITATION17.html
I would personally keep both and sell the other pres you are not using...Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
:)
you are 'the man' at finding stuff....
:)
I think I agree with you. Mailed out the yamaha c-4 yesterday to D.C. - to a guy at the NSF, and still have the Hafler dh-101 for sale (hate to see it go, sounds so nice), but 1 main preamp and 1 backup shud be enuff.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by louped garouv
that comes from being retired for 5 years. ( retired at 53 , dont know why I waited so long :) ) , but I started accumulating mucho gear at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by louped garouv
So today is the 18th, I sent the seller this message today " Ok, its been 12 days since I paid for this item. Its only going to Oregon. I dont have it. Not 1 email from you. IS IT TIME TO START AN EBAY COMPLAINT ??? "Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
and now the very FIRST communication from the seller:
Hello
Sorry for the delay.The unit was sent alreadt via fedex.This is te tracking number #045796810023652.Thanks and apologize for the inconvinints.
Rafael
So now I check with FEDEX tracking .....picked up at 5:02 today.
A$$hole Seller ID=santamaria461
(in case you ever want to bid with him)
__________________________________________________ ______
from FEDEX tracking
Jan 18, 2008 5:02 PM
Picked up
ANAHEIM, CA
received the BGW 203 ( 18 days after I paid - only went from Cal to Oregon )
eBay Ad stated "SOUND CORNER Auctions prides itself on the quality of items sold. We pack and ship our items professionally to ensure each item you buy from us arrives safely and in the listed condition."
What a joke !!!! :(:(:( A huge monitor box with loosly wadded up newspaper for fill and a tiny little handwritten label.
Fortunately - it was in good condition ... weights 22 pounds, guess they couldnt throw it around.:bouncy:
seem to work fine, have only tried with phones and a portable CD player for input.
was parting out a dead Sansui receiver and noticed the wood case was approx size so slipped it on...maybe with a little mods it will be OK.
I know the original point of this thread is now moot with the arrival of Seawolf's BGW, but his ordeal reminded me of my last pre-amp purchase only months ago when my Ebay purchase got sent to someone else who bought a Kenwood amp from the same seller. And guess what I got? Wrapped the same as Wolf's BGW and rattling around in the box. I re-packaged the Kenwood and sent it back to FedEx who made the incorrect swap in the first place but I eventually got my Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control Four and highly recommend it in this price range. I paid $113 plus shipping and I know you're tired of hearing from me about Soundcraftsmen, but the darn thing has the sweetest controls, fantastic input capacity, and two loop circuits if you just have way too much stuff to connect. It adds nothing to the sound path unless you want it to and offers slick digital switching and a superb volume control, IMHO, but I'd buy another. Here are the fuzzy auction photos:
http://i24.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/c1/32/0523_3.JPG
http://i13.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/c1/32/0628_3.JPG
http://i13.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/c1/32/078d_3.JPG
no sweat...I enjoy reading others opinions on preamps. wish I had known about the soundcraftsman when I started the search.Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCCA
OBTW - Still have to sell the Hafler dh-101 preamp. Anyone ?
Got the BGW 203 preamp installed today. trimmed and detailed the ex-Sansui/now BGW wood case. This is a big unit with 19 inch rack face and 21 + pounds.
The switches and controls seem commercial grade and very heavy duty. At this point, I dont see a need for the EQ any longer ( and the SRS is out too ), the tone controls are doing all that I need ( there is seperate BASS & Treb for each channel).
It doesnt have all the bells & whissles of the APT , but it seems extreemly clear and transparent...I guess thats all you need from a preamp ?? :bouncy:
(All the above saved the seller from a neg - tho he deserved it)
After 6 weeks using the BGW 203....I went back to the APT.
no problems with the BGW, it was just large and didnt have the control of the APT , tho sound was just as good.
These little APT/Holman's (Holmen ??) are jewels, if you ever need a good pre , and dont have too much money to spend, they are worth seeking out..:applaud:
What about a good Nakamichi pre amp? Like a CA5-AII or a CA5?
Those are cheap - under $300.00 and well worth the money!
lovethatsound ,
I have a Nak CA 11 sitting here doing nothing . Mint condition. You would need to get someone to convert to US power,but like I said "MINT" 200 bucks + shipping.
Rich
I had one of these for around 5 years. It was just about perfect... never put a foot wrong and I have absolutely no idea why I sold it. I believe that I imported it from the USA when I was living in Germany.
Now I am using an equally good (but more limited) pre-amp, The Pass Labs X2. The construction of this is a bit OTT but it has nice touches.. such as the front panel never getting marked by finger tips because the control knobs have large skirts. The edges of the case are very sharp and that is my only criticism.
agree 100 percent ...every now and then there is a product thats "just right" and the APT is it...Quote:
Originally Posted by georgebrooke
And as I've told you in the past NotStorm, Nak and Mac are not what I want.Quote:
Originally Posted by lovethatsound
Seawolf ,
sorry mate . I jumped in as usual . I didn't realise this was the same thread.
Rich
nO PROBLEM , Rich ..I always appreciate your commentsQuote:
Originally Posted by richluvsound
(least you arent some banned wanker pretending he's someone else , 'cause he moved and got a different IP.)
Hi Seawolf, So glad to hear you are back with the venerable little APT :applaud:, they are hard to beat, I am still indebted to you & P. Warner for the heads up on these. After messing around with some other gear these days, the one thing that I think is missing on these wonderful units is/are XLR in/outs. I am surprised they were not part of the desing, he thought about everything else, must have had a good reason for leaving them out of the scheme.
The APT w/the Crown PS 400 is a nice little combo.
Yes, BUT ...did you read the manual yet ?? There is soo much good info on the unit that us NOT readily apparent. TH even explains why he chose certain types of switches. Written as if he is talking to a friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krunchy
I am indebited to P.Warner also..he showed up , dumped a gem recommendation on us and hasnt been seen since.
On the BGW , I did get a little bleedover of the XM tuner when on phono , the APT is dead quiet.:D
I'm still working on it :D ...Im a slow reader (its my second language)....of manuals ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
Anything interesting on the crosshairs ?
Must go to office, catch up later, enjoy the day!
You should clean all the switches with Caig DeOxit -- the noise and crosstalk will go away.hQuote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
well Engrish is my first (of 3) and it still took me a while :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Krunchy
interesting ? naw..the local flippers seem to have CL RSS feeds to their cells and the good stuff is going fast. I only get their leftovers or misses.
Hello Loach, that DeOx is lilke having DW40 in the shop, if you're messing with stereo gear, it comes in real handy.Quote:
Originally Posted by loach71
Seawolf, sorry to hear about the flippers, there's always something it seems.
Enjoy the weekend!...wait a minute, do the weekends even feel like weekends to you, are they meaningless once a person is retired? was always curious about that.
weekends ?? more people on the road . longer lines , more CL postings ,,,,,,worked many years to get to this level of leisure....(tho I seem to be working harder , now that I'm not employed :blink: , there are so many projects now, that even if the qeue stopped filling today, I'd still never finish them all) AND ...the honneydew list grows proportionately as your free time does..Quote:
Originally Posted by Krunchy
:rotfl: Had a feeling about that!Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
Did you read about and engage the "infrasonic filter" ??? Its on the back side...(see book)Quote:
Originally Posted by Krunchy
Not yet, was involved in working out regular sonic issues wrt the monsters' cross overs. Thats enough hifi & lofi for me this weekend. Hope your weekend was a good one Wofl!
Now that is some funny SHEEET! :rotfl::rotfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97
Last summer I did something stupid ...was rewiring/cleaning up cables behind the stack and thot power was OFF ..it wasnt...pulled a connector from the Apt preamp and heard a POP... DEAD !! :( checked it all out ...Apt was dead dead dead.
(the only time in my life that I've done this) ..so rigged up the backup BGW pre and went on.....it has been bugging the crap out of me ever since.
Last month, meekly went into Audio Specialties and queried Doug, who is a great repairman ... I had searched for at least a half hour inside the Apt and couldn't find the fuse .... he had a unit in the store and we opened it and he showed me the fuse ...it's soldered inline , disguised and buried. YUK ...went home and opened it up , found the fuse and desoldered it....went for an improvement and wired in an auto fuse holder, but ....still no joy.
Been getting back to vinyl these last couple of months and I know the Apt is much better for phono playback. It has adjustable capatance, resistance, . compensation for warp, and for hf POP and even channel trim for the cart....I like the little guy so much that this week I bit the bullet, swallowed my pride , and took it in for an estimate..
Happy Part : problem was more than just the fuse...a bridge rectifier went too.. Doug would fix it all and clean all the switches for $75...I happily said YES.
got it back today and am in audio nirvana again ....:D
Glad to hear your are in Nirvana again but what you described has me a bit concerned. As much as it can be horrendous to the power amp and speakers, hot-plugging connections to a preamp should not cause internal damage, particularly to the power supply. Pulling a connector and hearing a POP...DEAD!! to then discover a blown diode bridge (and the fuse?) would indicate you are sending current through from other components. You had to have generated a transient of some good proportions so finding a floating voltage should be rather obvious. There is the other possibility: I had mentioned to you about the discussions on the APT needing capacitors given its age but I will gladly defer to other brethren here as to whether older, otherwise well behaved, electrolytics might be culpable in a sudden event as you described. Yep, that's food for thought!
I bought a 5 channel Adcom preamp/tuner on FleaBay last week for $129 for my basement listening. For the money, you can't beat this one.
It has a stout output signal that drives an 200 watt Adcom amp very well. That is more than I can say about many pre-amps. - one Onkyo that come to mind has a very small output signal.
things have changed a bit since last post here....Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
The Apt, while still sounding great had the power switch die...but was nice enough to die in the ON position..put the BGW back in...sold the Apt to another LHF member.
When playing the BGW at low gain, 1 channel would drop out. Started longing for a remote control , then with my bail out from XM, decided that FM again wouldn't be a bad deal.
Been impressed with my Adcom GFA-555 amp and started to look into Adcom preamps...there is a model with remote and FM tuner...GTP-500II. ....CL knew what I needed and soon after up came a listing with the Adcom in question , he had an Adcom 5 channel pre also and a GDA-600 "phase inverter"
I looked up the GDA ..of course its a DAC ..so I nego'ed a package price and went down to West Linn to get them ...familiar story...3 million dollar custom house on the river with private boat dock...an orthodontist.
Gave him $125 for BOTH ....started using the DAC with Pandora coming optical from the laptop almost immediately. The pre sat around a while until recently I grabbed all those Philips rca cables...when time came to swap the cables, I did the pre also.
Bottom line...the GTP-500II has fine metal build quality ...looks good...gain switch is continuously adjustable , so will play both channels at low volume. has remote (tho really only useful for UP & DOWN and source changing) , tuner very sensitive (pulls strong static free when the Denon receiver across the room WON't) ...its pretty sweet sounding (have disconnected the EQ) , and a real bargain....if you have similar needs , the Adcom is a great choice..:applaud::applaud::applaud:
Killer deal! I like Adcom stuff
been looking for both myself, not sure which exact preamp model yet but a 2 channel remote and a DAC.They have a 700 model DAC, not sure the difference yet.
Again great score :applaud:
Mark
I dont know the diff either , ASSUME newer DAC chip..there are a number of sites instructing on how to hot rod the 600Quote:
Originally Posted by opimax
User Comments
GDA-600
PCM63 for Peanuts http://www.adcom-usa.com/layoutimages/stars5.gif
Bruce, Ca. (4/24/2007) This is an outstanding DAC and the cheapest way I know of to get the mighty Burr-Brown PCM63 (multi-bit)treatment for your CD's. Highly praised by Stereophile in 1994, it deserves every accolade. Lots of weight and slam.
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic...._page_number=4
The Adcom GDA 600 does indeed employ the highly competent Burr Brown PCM 63 20 bit resistor ladder dacs. This is the very unit that Robert Harley paired with the original DTI Pro which has a 24 bit chip as opposed to the DTI Pro 32 which has a 32 bit floating point chip although the two use the same resolution enhancement algorithm.
According to Robert Harley the pairing of the DTI Pro and the GDA 600 was a "sonic revelation" and compared the sound to many DAC's he'd heard that sold in the neighborhood of $4,000. Coming from a guy who uses a Mark Levinson No.31/No.30.5 Digital front end that is high praise indeed.
this link is really good for drilling down to find the model with specs that you want
http://www.adcom-usa.com/prod/shopdi...ries.asp?sid=1
Quote:
Originally Posted by opimax
so the other day I biked past "Audio Specialties" , the top repair shop / used gear gallery in the Willamette Valley ...Doug, the owner, is one of the good guys , I even introduced Mr. W. to Doug and he agreed with my assessment.
Doug had an Audio Research tube preamp for sale marked at big bux. I relayed to him that I was interested, but had just picked up an Adcom pre that was pretty nice too...and I thot Adcom was good bang for the buck / built well.
He just normally goes about business unless you are waving around $$ , all of a sudden he comes alive and replies "yup , great stuff for the money" , "OBTW , I have access to everything that comes thru the store , I took that AR pre home and my Adcom GFP-5XX was sooo much better"....he gave me the model number and now I'm on the lookout for it too :bouncy:
Me too - I have a couple deployed.Quote:
Originally Posted by opimax
But the home "mains" run off a Bryston BP26 DA - thanks to advice from Widget. The difference was, well, audible...
Quoting Seawolf:
"I also avoided the black plastic and found a very solid metal , meticulously built unit that has the feel of aircraft instrumentation"
One cannot get those hours spent flying in Helos out of his system. I have not.
That's a GOOD thing!
funny thing is that I now have one of these. Found a good one, cheap,cheap,cheap. Had noisy pots , but OK now. Sounds pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caldwell
After working with MILSPEC, most popular priced gear looks/feels like junque.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor_Electron
In Saigon (2007) the street venders had piles of gauges from helos/fixed rotor aircraft for sale , they must have parted out everything we left.
OT: now the US govt. is buying Russian helos ?? :dont-know:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...p_ref=politics