Great Drummers

I've seen threads about incredible guitar players and great bass players, so how about paying tribute to those great keepers of time, the drummers :)

I've seen many great drummers over the years. I will start with some of my favourite drummers: (I've put an asterix next to drummers I've seen live in London)

Stewart Copeland
Bill Bruford *
Tony Williams *
Jack DeJohnette *
Danny Gottlieb
Cindy Blackman
Dennis Chambers *
Peter Erskine *
Rayford Griffin
Billy Cobham *
Narada Michael Walden
Steve Jordan

Who do you coonsider to be great drummers?

Buddy Rich has never been bested.

Manu Katche - Studio musician
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqtTm...embedded#t=126
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czAO7...eature=related
Stéphane

Leon Taylor - the son of the great session and The Ventures drummer, Mel Taylor. Had the pleasure of seeing and hearing him on several occasions on a Ventures cruise a few years ago. He replaced his dad after Mel's death several years back. Very impressive. :)

Best drummers I've seen :

Buddy Rich
Carl Palmer
Neil Peart

Check this sit out and have a blast.:D

http://www.drummersonthetube.com/artist/a.htm

John Henry Bonham, RIP Bonzo!

The Great Paul Thompson
Drummer for Roxy Music and tons of side projects
of their band members, plus
later versions of Concrete Blonde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Th...%28musician%29

Drummer for The Pretenders. Saw him perform live several times over the years and consider him one of the three or four best rock drummers I've actually seen live--along with Bill Bruford (both Yes and King Crimson) and Bonham, not to mention Keith Moon. That guy who played drums for Humble Pie--I can't recall his name just now--wasn't exactly shabby, either. As for metronomical steadiness and tempo control, Ringo is difficult to "beat." I've read that John Lennon's direction to every drummer with whom he worked after the Beatles was the same: "Play it like Ringo would." Although I never thought of Phil Collins work with Genesis one way or the other, his stuff with Brand X was outstanding. All toms, no cymbals, very powerful, no flash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laurie

Stewart Copeland
Bill Bruford *
Tony Williams *
Jack DeJohnette *
Danny Gottlieb
Cindy Blackman
Dennis Chambers *
Peter Erskine *
Rayford Griffin
Billy Cobham *
Narada Michael Walden
Steve Jordan
Who do you coonsider to be great drummers?

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Hi Laurie! its interesting that you started your list with Stewart Copeland, without his talent ( & especially in a trio setting) the police would have sounded quite different, highly underrated.
YOu got to see Tony Williams :applaud:

I have to admit that sometimes I do not pay much attention to a very important equation of much of the music that I listen to but without them it would be severely lacking.

Charlie Watts,a fine drummer, again an invaluable component of one of the greatest bands ever, seems like a lot of the great drummers with the exception of Bonzo & Moon are fairly low key.

Zak Starkey - Ringo's son & sometimes who drummer is pretty hot, does a great job with the who.

Stephen Perkins- janes addiction/porno for pyros.

We saw CCR (revisited) this year....their drummer , Doug "Cosmo" Clifford (original to the band) was banging like a 25 y.o. ...still in his trademark tank top ....floored everybody when he announced the in a month he was turning 64.

never lost it in all those years ...:applaud:

Don Henley (Eagles)

...I think he started on guitar but moved over recently!

Joe "Zigaboo" Modeliste is a crazy funk drummer. Listen to the Sissy strut from the meters...
http://www.drummerworld.com/Sound/zigabooCissyStrut.mp3

Dennis Chambers is so good It's embarrassing. I'm a drummer, (not a good one) I can't even fathom being able to play like him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laurie

I've seen threads about incredible guitar players and great bass players, so how about paying tribute to those great keepers of time, the drummers :)

I've seen many great drummers over the years. I will start with some of my favourite drummers: (I've put an asterix next to drummers I've seen live in London)

Stewart Copeland
Bill Bruford *
Tony Williams *
Jack DeJohnette *
Danny Gottlieb
Cindy Blackman
Dennis Chambers *
Peter Erskine *
Rayford Griffin
Billy Cobham *
Narada Michael Walden
Steve Jordan

Who do you coonsider to be great drummers?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjyQkrE8Mok

I think greatness has to do with those who inspire others, in this case, to play drums. In this vein I think the greatest drummer of all time has to be Ringo Starr! Name one person who has inspired more people to take up the drums than Ringo? He's the reason I got my first toy kit at age 5, never looked back.

Good call by SEAWOLF on "Cosmo", one of my favs! Another inspiration for me was Traffic's Jim Capaldi (RIP).

Well I've been a drummer since I was a teen, and I have a few picks. ;) Of course there are many excellent to great drummers, it just depends I suppose on the mood you're in that day or the music you like best. Too many to list really.

I'd say there is no "best" drummer. They all bring their own thing to the table. Some are more "technical", some are better groove or "pocket" players, some are great composers/arrangers of percussion, some don't overwhelm you but play for the tune and if they weren't there it wouldn't sound right, etc.

For rock, some mentioned above I would agree with are Martin Chambers (Pretenders), Capaldi (Traffic), Bonham, Bruford, Charlie Watts, Ringo; also Matt Abts (Gov't Mule), Nick Mason, Barriemore Barlow (Tull), and so on. Quite a few to like in rock.

Guys like Michael Shrieve, Bruford, Vinnie Colaiuta can be considered rock or jazz really - all in the "great" category I would say. Then you have guys like Graham Lear, Rodney Holmes, Gavin Harrison, and Marco Minnemann that don't get enough mention.

Jazz or funk/fusion drummers I like are Art Blakey, Max Roach, Bill Bruford, Roy Haynes, Sonny Paine, Bernard Purdie, Vinnie Colaiuta, Jack DeJohnette, Billy Cobham, David Garibaldi.

If you don't mind hard rock/metal, check out Danny Carey of TOOL. He's excellent, and not your typical "metal" drummer. I'd recommend the album "Lateralus" or "10,000 Days". TOOL is something of an acquired taste maybe, but Carey is one of the most talented drummers in the world right now.

Al Jackson Jr. -- so much of the Stax sound and integral to Booker T & The MGs and Otis Redding. His playing seemed effortless.

I've seen Stewart Copeland a couple of times with the Police -- what a talent.

Also let's not forget Max Weinberg of the E Street Band -- have seen him live too and he can make any bar song sound great and rock.

AJ Jr. & Stewart - yep and yep. :thmbsup:

Honestly though, Weinberg sounds good when I hear him but I never could stand to watch him play. :biting: He just looks so silly the way he swipes his cymbals and everything else he does, really, I just wanna punch him out. :bash: But yes, a very good drummer.

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Originally Posted by Krunchy

Hi Laurie! its interesting that you started your list with Stewart Copeland, without his talent ( & especially in a trio setting) the police would have sounded quite different, highly underrated.
YOu got to see Tony Williams :applaud:

I have to admit that sometimes I do not pay much attention to a very important equation of much of the music that I listen to but without them it would be severely lacking.

Charlie Watts,a fine drummer, again an invaluable component of one of the greatest bands ever, seems like a lot of the great drummers with the exception of Bonzo & Moon are fairly low key.

Zak Starkey - Ringo's son & sometimes who drummer is pretty hot, does a great job with the who.

Stephen Perkins- janes addiction/porno for pyros.

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Hi Krunchy,

I love Stewart's sound - like you said, he made The Police unique with that driving rythm, really staying on top of the beat and driving, a perfect fit for Sting's bass (sometimes fretless or erectric) and Andy Summer's guitar which had so many tonal colours. Stewart has also done some great work with Stanley Clarke over the years appearing on Stanley Clarke albums in the 1980s and the group Animal Logic which I think was underated. I never got to see Stewart live.

I saw Tony Williams in 1991 at the Jazz Cafe with his then young band - it was a great experience and he got a great reception from the crowd. He spoke about his work with Jack Bruce and John McLaughlin in Lifetime and times they spent in London.

Another drummer I absolutely love is Danny Gottlieb - he's an outstanding drummer.

Last year I saw Stanley Clarke and he had a fantastic young drummer with the skill of a Dennis Chambers, I wish I could remember his name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5jDI...eature=related

Bobby Rock is no slouch to say the least! Here he's doing some funk fushion with Bill "The Budah" Dickens, great bassist! I went to one of his clinics a few years ago. I almost went home and burned my sticks, almost.

If you have not heard Billy Kilson play you are really missing something. He currently tours with Chris Botti and has been a session musician for years. You will find his name on many cd's ie:

Dave Holland Quintet (several)
Dianne Reeves (several)
Blue Note Records (several compilations)
Bob James
Larry Carlton (Great!!) Saphire Blue
Kirk Whalum
George Duke
Both Chris Botti Live DVD's
Spyro Gyra
Yo-Yo Ma
Rene Olstead

On and on

He is truly one of the tastiest drummers I have ever heard or seen.

Ken

Mark Brzezicki of Big Country and studio fame.

I will second Jack DeJohnette, my top pick for Jazz drumming. Metric precision, David Robinson of the Modern Lovers and The Cars. The ML's "Pablo Picasso" is a subversive favorite of mine.

I don't listen to his band, but everyone I trust says Neil Peart is as good as Rock gets.

Clark

I have been thinking since posting here (it would be better to think before posting, you say? ;) ). Did the IP allude to only drummers who play trap kits with sticks?

If not, I think of Babatunde Olatunji, a Nigerian who famously represented African drumming and drummers. He wasn't that obscure; I saw him on David Letterman, and he was associated with John Hammond and John Coltrane. He used his talent to maximum benefit in many areas beside musical performance. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olatunji

Armando Peraza, likewise well represents Afro-Cuban hand drumming. Not at all obscure, a fixture for many years in the band Santana. He emigrated from Cuba to Mexico to help Mongo Santamaria. They then came to the USA. Armando got around in Jazz circles like few others. He reportedly lives in San Mateo, so if you see him thank him for me, for all he has done and is doing for music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armando_Peraza

Look in this thread http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24705 for some tabla players. How could we discuss non Western drumming without tabla? Speakerdave, feel free to help out here.

Tenor saxophonist John Gilmore was pressed into service as a drummer in his long association with Sun Ra. I found his drumming very interesting. BTW, he was a great tenor man, influencing even John Coltrane.

Earlier, Chano Pozo, a Cuban drummer, was the musician most directly responsible for infiltrating Latin into the American Jazz scene. A rough guy, he was killed in Harlem at the age of about 33 in a dispute over a bag of marijuana. To be fair, in the Thirties through the Sixties a lot of Jazz (and Blues) musicians routinely carried a knife. But Pozo was proudly a former thug.

If you think the stories surrounding the Rock and Pop communities are something else, read up on the behind the scenes "going ons" of Jazz and Blues history. Whew! Everyone but Keith Richards would be a lightweight there. Obviously being a reanimated corpse, he doesn't count. :p Well, Rick James too. But he wasn't reanimated. Yet.

We really should have a thread dedicated (deadicated?) to the Rolling Stones.

Clark

^ Yes, well if you want to talk Peraza, then we can toss in the whole Santana percussion section. The "classic" one for me would be Peraza, Orestes Vilato, and Raul Rekow. For a bongo/timbales/conga triumvirate, none finer ever existed.


HAIL yass! :bouncy:

That's an interesting angle guys I haven't thought of.

In that case, we can also consider that rare breed who can play drums and percussion instruments with equal skill. Airto Morriera from Brazil comes to mind immediately, I saw him way back in 1991 with his excellent group 4th World featuring his wife Flora Purim annd guitar play Jose Netto.

Another guy would be Alex Acuna, he's very good as well.

I think Dom Um Romao was equally adept at playing the traps and playing lots of different percussion.

And how about drummers who are great composers?

Jack deJohnette is a great composer who plays piano very well also. His album from 1984 called "Album Album" was dedicated to his mother and has some wonderful tracks inculding Festival and 4th World Anthem. In the sleeve notes he said he wanted the album to be a celebration of his mother's life so instead of it been a melancholy album it was very upbeat.

Jack's album from 1990 called Parallel realities is a great disc. Its a trio date with Pat Metheny and Herbie Hancock (Jack plays keyboard bass on the album) Jack wrote 3 tracks, Pat Metheny wrote three tracks and they co-wrote one track. That album sold loads of copies on MCA and I saw the band tour with Dave Holland added on bass, it was one my favourite concerts. It may have been nominated for a grammy as well in 1990.

In 1985 Jack released the Jack DeJohnette Piano album including a cover of Time after Time by Cindy Lauper, two Coltrane covers and remakes of his own compositions which appeared on other albums. For a drummer its stellar piano work! Eddie Gomez plays bass and Freddie Waits plays drums. Jack plays piano and synths on the album.

Other great composers for me has to be Narada Michael Walden. His debut album called Garden of Lovelight from 1976 is superb with people like David Sancious, Carlos Santana and Jeff Beck appearing on it - its a mixture of soul, rock, fusion all rolled into one but Michael does it seasmlessly - little wonder he's become a great producer with skills like that.

Billy Cobham is another great composer. he's written some great fusion tracks which have been sampled by everyone for decades including DJs and Massive Attack.

My 5 favourite drummers of all time are:

Tony Williams
Jack DeJohnette
Peter Erskine
Bill Bruford
Stewart Copeland

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Originally Posted by rdgrimes

Buddy Rich has never been bested.

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I will second that!

Can't believe no mention [unless I missed it] of Ginger Baker. I still never tire of Toad off Wheels of Fire. THE double bass king! Louie Belson notwithstanding.

Roger Turner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIV9w...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467Qt...eature=related

Steve Noble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofoag...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpLS...eature=related

Mark Sanders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeYz...eature=related

Still on a jazzy tip:

Rashied Ali
Elvin Jones
Don Alias
Billy Higgins
Ed Blackwell
Joe Chambers
Airto Moreira
Roy Haynes
Alphonse Mouzon
Idris Muhammad
Sunny Murray
Tony Williams
Harvey Mason
Art Blakey
Hamid Drake
Chico Hamilton

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph856

Still on a jazzy tip:

Rashied Ali
Elvin Jones
Don Alias
Billy Higgins
Ed Blackwell
Joe Chambers
Airto Moreira
Roy Haynes
Alphonse Mouzon
Idris Muhammad
Sunny Murray
Tony Williams
Harvey Mason
Art Blakey
Hamid Drake
Chico Hamilton

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http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/o...mBRsolo91.html

Dude, you forgot Omar Hakim!

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Originally Posted by oznob

Dude, you forgot Omar Hakim!

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Amazing :applaud:

I really like Airto too. What a performer!

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/airtomd2.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ducatista47

Look in this thread http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24705 for some tabla players. How could we discuss non Western drumming without tabla? Speakerdave, feel free to help out here.

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Agreed. Been listening to Zakir Hussain on this album recently. Amazing drumming, with Charles Lloyd:

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/...arland_sangam/

Can you recommend a Sun Ra recording with John Gilmore drumming?

Bill Stewart

Dave Weckl

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Originally Posted by Ralph856

Can you recommend a Sun Ra recording with John Gilmore drumming?

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I wish. I have only seen/heard him drumming on some video snippets here and there. The records of the period are not replete with exact credits and the big band nature of the Arkestra could be a free for all of who played what, and when.

Not to recommend it, but in desperation I have sometimes turned to file sharing to obtain less well known clips. I wonder if YouTube is thick with Arkestra clips. I haven't checked. I do remember Gilmore explaining, in one of the more famous documentaries (If I remember which one I will let you know!), how Sun Ra told him he needed a new drum, a different one, not a replacement, and he carved it out of a tree struck by lightning right across the street from the Arkestra's house in Philadelphia. An all too brief clip tantalized with John playing it with two large hooked clubs with round "feet" for striking surfaces. His sense of rhythm, timing and percussion were what you would expect from a great Jazz musician.

No wonder Jack DeJohnette can play great piano. If you have it you have it, period. I know a local musician who has it and then some. He is phenomenal on vibes, piano and drums. Whatever I hear him play, he becomes my favorite on. I am afraid to ask him what else he plays. Me, I don't have it. :(

File sharing can be frustrating when you find something that is too short and can not be identified as to exactly what performance it was. The best drumming I have ever heard is one such two or three minute section from some live performance by Armando Peraza.

I can share that tonight on the way home from work WGLT played "I've Found A New Baby" with Lester Young, Buddy Rich and Nat Cole. Everyone was playing beyond outrageous. I guess Prez would have been one hundred today.

Clark

I believe that documentary was 'A Joyful Noise' and I think you may be mixing up John Gilmore with James Jacson :). Marshall Allen was playin over here only a few weeks ago at Cafe Oto but I missed it, unfortunately. Not sure I'll get another chance seeing as he's 85 :o:. But i digress...

http://homepage.uab.edu/moudry/jacson.htm

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...25/jacson3.jpg

No maybe about it, revise all drumming references from Gilmore to Jacson. Both reed players in the Arkestra, but I sure did mix them up.

Being a voracious reader and a generalist, my brain was filled up twenty years ago. Ever since, things have been a bit confused as old memories make way for new and get mixed up in the process. Now that I am actually old it is not getting any better.

Thank you for the correction, I appreciate it. You are a fan of Sun Ra? I personally feel that Sun Ra's bands were the best Jazz groups that ever played a note.

Clark

Been into Jazz since a teen in the late seventies (anywhere from Crusaders to Coltrane) but somehow managed to remain uninterested in and pretty oblivious to Sun Ra in all that time, despite my friends loving him. Watching A Joyful Noise has changed all that though! Definitely a fan now :).

David

I'll confine this to Rock and Roll drummers

DJ Fontana

Al Jackson

Howard Grimes

Earl Palmer

Ringo

Charlie Watts

Tommy Ramone

Mitch Mitchell (IMO by far the best of the "busy" rock drummers)

Corky Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom Brennan

Mitch Mitchell (IMO by far the best of the "busy" rock drummers)

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NO! That would be Moonie! :) I do like Mitch though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LowPhreak

NO! That would be Moonie! :) I do like Mitch though.

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Moon was sloppy with poor timing but Mitchell was precise. I saw the Jimi Hendrix Experience only once but I saw the Who many times and IMO Mitchell was a much better drummer just in simple terms of Drummer 101---being steady; Moon reminded me of a guy who wanted to run before he could walk.

Regards

Some of that's true about Moon, but still I feel he was a more exciting drummer, and brought more to rock drumming overall than Mitch.

Terry Silverlight

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom Brennan

Moon was sloppy with poor timing but Mitchell was precise. I saw the Jimi Hendrix Experience only once but I saw the Who many times and IMO Mitchell was a much better drummer just in simple terms of Drummer 101---being steady; Moon reminded me of a guy who wanted to run before he could walk.

Regards

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I will say though Tom that with Mitch, he was overshadowed by Jimi. I mean everyone in his bands were...it was always just 90% about Jimi.

With Moon, about 2/3 of seeing the show was watching him freak on the kit and then kicking the crap out of it :applaud: , while Roger tried getting attention by acrobatics & whatnot, and Pete with his windmills and guitar smashing, and Ox standing still on the side but pissing Roger off constantly by running his bass up too "loud". :thmbsup:

Who said "violence" never accomplishes anything? :blink: :D

http://www.littlefeat.net/index.php?page=news&n_id=611

I came accross Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus" album last night and it reminded me what a great drummer Ritchie Hayward is. Did a lot of backing vocals as well. I just found out on Little Feat's wed page that he has liver cancer. Very, very sad! There is a link to an ebay auction to help him with expenses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom Brennan

Moon was sloppy with poor timing but Mitchell was precise. I saw the Jimi Hendrix Experience only once but I saw the Who many times and IMO Mitchell was a much better drummer just in simple terms of Drummer 101---being steady; Moon reminded me of a guy who wanted to run before he could walk.

Regards

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I have to agree, he was never one of my favs for the reasons you mentioned. Too much booze and dope, but hey, maybe he played better lit than sober?

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Originally Posted by oznob

Too much booze and dope, but hey, maybe he played better lit than sober?

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Name some hard rock or even jazz drummers from that era who weren't doing booze & dope? Hell, name some from today! :bs: While you're at it, name some athletes or movie celebs for that matter.

I say so what. It's their personal life, and not mine to judge. What counts is do you like the product they've put out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LowPhreak

Name some hard rock or even jazz drummers from that era who weren't doing booze & dope?

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John Fogerty insisted that CCR's live performances sounded identical to the recorded ones , that in addition to personal views lead to his banning alcohol or drugs for the band members.

yes, not strictly "hard rock" , but the #1 band in the world for 2 years, pushing the Beatles out of that title.

I'll certainly second Harvey Mason. And, there's also one of my local favorites, Bob Jospe.

But then I've never matured, so I still love what Mick Fleetwood does with his kit on the album Mystery to Me, and I'm especially fond of his syncopation in the chorus on "Emerald Eyes". :D

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

I'll certainly second Harvey Mason. And, there's also one of my local favorites, Bob Jospe.

But then I've never matured, so I still love what Mick Fleetwood does with his kit on the album Mystery to Me, and I'm especially fond of his syncopation in the chorus on "Emerald Eyes". :D

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Yes, there he is, finally...Mick Fleetwood. Man has DRIVE in his drumming.

Can't think why no one has touched on Hal Blaine. Yeah, yeah, some will say he was just a work horse session man. No room for expression. But in in the world of truly talented musicians he was the go-to drummer, no?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LowPhreak

Name some hard rock or even jazz drummers from that era who weren't doing booze & dope? Hell, name some from today! :bs: While you're at it, name some athletes or movie celebs for that matter.

I say so what. It's their personal life, and not mine to judge. What counts is do you like the product they've put out.

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Sorry if I got your knickers in a bunch. Moon just seemed to call more attention to himself with his antics than most others. Heck, my favorite rock drummer is John Bonham who suffered the same early death as Moon. My forum name is a backward tribute to him, Bonzo/Oznob. Wouldn't judge any of them. If they want to live the lifestyle that puts them in an early grave, which they did, it's just a sad commentary on the price of fame!

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Originally Posted by oznob

. . . it's just a sad commentary on the price of fame!

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. . . or how poorly we handle mental health issues still today. The famous just have more access and more money to self-medicate to mask their problems. I was going to say it's a sign of weak character, or poor self-image, but the reality is mental health and depression are serious diseases that have way too much stigma attached to them to be dealt with openly like we deal with cancer or any other disease. Yeah, there's the physical addiction aspect and, to be sure, it's not always a black-and-white issue.

As my favorite songwriter sings: "If everything was black and white God wouldn't have made gray." (-Kenny White) Track 22 here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

. . . or how poorly we handle mental health issues still today. The famous just have more access and more money to self-medicate to mask their problems. I was going to say it's a sign of weak character, or poor self-image, but the reality is mental health and depression are serious diseases that have way too much stigma attached to them to be dealt with openly like we deal with cancer or any other disease. Yeah, there's the physical addiction aspect and, to be sure, it's not always a black-and-white issue.

As my favorite songwriter sings: "If everything was black and white God wouldn't have made gray." (-Kenny White) Track 22 here.

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I will whole heartedly agree with you on that issue. We do a piss poor job in this country dealing with and understanding the mentally ill! Our county closed it's mental health facility a few years ago and has some patch work response team to deal with suicidal and severe mentally ill patients. More times than not, they are not dealt with properly and eventually commit crimes because they don't know better. It's at that point the jail becomes the defacto mental health facility which is where they do not belong! It happens all too often here and it's wrong!
Sorry to go OT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oznob

Sorry if I got your knickers in a bunch. Moon just seemed to call more attention to himself with his antics than most others. Heck, my favorite rock drummer is John Bonham who suffered the same early death as Moon. My forum name is a backward tribute to him, Bonzo/Oznob. Wouldn't judge any of them. If they want to live the lifestyle that puts them in an early grave, which they did, it's just a sad commentary on the price of fame!

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Not at all. My knickers are fine, thank you. ;) I was just trying to tell it like it is so to speak.

I think that back in Moon's & Bonham's day, rock was still fairly young as a genre, and still had some growing pains to go through. A lot of things hadn't been done yet and much of it was 'new', radical, or different. Now 35+ years later we've just about seen it all.

Interesting debate going on here.

Back in 1991 on the Old Jazz FM (older Londoners will know what I mean - when it was actually a great station, not the rubbish it has become), Airto Morreira was interviewed by then DJ Steve Edwards. It was an extensive hour long interview talking about his whole career and playing some tracks from him and Opa who he produced.

The last segment of the interview talked about drugs as he had written a chapter in his book called "Drugs and Inspiration". Steve said he wanted Airto to give a message to the listening public. Airto went on to say that his own experience had taught him that no musician should touch drugs because it would take them to places they don't want to be. He also went on to mention that younger musicians would see older musicians taking drugs and want to be like them and went on to say that not only do musicians not need drugs to get inspired but said that guys who stay off stuff can lead their lives and take care of their business much better - in his words "get on the phone and sound good" and still be alert during the daytime being a night person.

For me the most interesting part was when he said there were many top class musicians who wouldn't touch drugs, claiming some never had and never will and went on to name names; names he mentioned included Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Chic Corea, his band member Gary Meek and others. Of course, other players would have experimented and then decided that drugs wasn't for them.

He ended the interview by saying that a lot of people claim that to be inspired you have to do drugs and as far as he's concerned it's a lie.

I was very pleased to hear that; being a fan of many of those musicians and I had that interview on tape for about 15 years but unfortunately lost the cassette around 5 years ago so couldn't transfer it to minidisc.

I think mental illness is very true. Having read the biography of Jaco Pastorius by journalist Bill Mikowski, the alcohol and cocaine abuse manifested the mental illness Jaco suffered, but the abuse made his problems much more pronounced which eventually cost him his life - indirectly because he was beaten up by a night club bouncer unfortunately and didn't have the strength to survive and died age 35. Jaco went from bring a bit crazy but teetotal but when he found fame and did drugs, his mental illness and depression was made stark by the alcohol and drugs.

The piano player Kenny Kirkland who played with Sting and Branford Marsalis among others died from a drug overdose in 1999 so unfortunately some guys hadn’t learned any lessons.
Sorry to get so deep here but its an interesting debate. :)

Speaking of Sting the drummer in the Police (Copeland?) was very precise and a hard driver too.

Max Weinburg is another powerhouse and he looks so cool and calm while doing it. Last time I saw Springsteen Weinburg was wearing a suit and tie, I like that, he looked sharp and played sharp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laurie

He also went on to mention that younger musicians would see older musicians taking drugs and want to be like them and went on to say that not only do musicians not need drugs to get inspired but said that guys who stay off stuff can lead their lives and take care of their business much better - in his words "get on the phone and sound good" and still be alert during the daytime being a night person.

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He ended the interview by saying that a lot of people claim that to be inspired you have to do drugs and as far as he's concerned it's a lie.

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It is possible that hallucinogens gave some otherwise not available inspiration (by allowing one to step outside of themselves or outside their normal existence), but all the hard drugs, pills, alcohol, powders and crystals are frankly for stupid people or the stupid element in smart people. For instance, many great Jazz musicians were great in spite of drugs, not because of them.

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For me the most interesting part was when he said there were many top class musicians who wouldn't touch drugs, claiming some never had and never will and went on to name names; names he mentioned included Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Chic Corea, his band member Gary Meek and others. Of course, other players would have experimented and then decided that drugs wasn't for them.

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Add Frank Zappa to the list.

Clark

I think "everything in moderation" is a better way to look at it. I don't think someone is stupid if they take a few drinks or tokes or whatever to relax or in a social setting. Some people can't do it that way though, because once they get started they don't stop until they're blitzed. Musicians are no better or worse in that sense than anyone else.

One great rock drummer I haven't seen mentioned is Aynsley Dunbar. I saw him in a very small club with Eric Burdon a few years ago. The guy tore up the little Yamaha four piece kit he was playing! He did some great work with The Mothers, you had to be good to be in that band, John Mayall, of course Journey and others.

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Originally Posted by LowPhreak

I think "everything in moderation" is a better way to look at it. I don't think someone is stupid if they take a few drinks or tokes or whatever to relax or in a social setting. Some people can't do it that way though, because once they get started they don't stop until they're blitzed. Musicians are no better or worse in that sense than anyone else.

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Modification of my stance accepted, but I personally can't escape the feeling after having a drink with friends that I was being stupid. A number of my best friends have quit after long associations with alcohol and they all have some regret over the time spent drinking. On his death bed, even the lover of the lifestyle W.C Fields said, "the one thing I would like to change, I would like to have tried it (life) without booze." Quote approximate, my memory of it.

I tend to separate an artist's work from their life. Ty Cobb was a miserable bastard but it doesn't change the fact that he was probably the best baseball player that ever lived. If we find out a guy beat his wife and did heroin it doesn't change the music he leaves behind.

I second Dunbar.

Clark

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Originally Posted by Ducatista47

Modification of my stance accepted, but I personally can't escape the feeling after having a drink with friends that I was being stupid. A number of my best friends have quit after long associations with alcohol and they all have some regret over the time spent drinking. On his death bed, even the lover of the lifestyle W.C Fields said, "the one thing I would like to change, I would like to have tried it (life) without booze."

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Right. Well I'm talking about having a "few" meaning 2 or 3. Two regular drinks (2x 12 oz. beer, 5 oz. wine, 2 standard mixed drinks) or less is considered "social drinking" and not alcoholic imbibing even by AA, if I understand it correctly.

I just don't understand why anyone would feel stupid about having a couple of drinks at dinner, a ball game, a concert, or any social function where it's accepted - unless you're easily intoxicated or shouldn't drink at all.

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Originally Posted by LowPhreak

I just don't understand why anyone would feel stupid about having a couple of drinks at dinner, a ball game, a concert, or any social function where it's accepted - unless you're easily intoxicated or shouldn't drink at all.

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It diminishes the capabilities a bit, takes the edge off. Great while unwinding after work, not so great when taking in a once in a lifetime experience. As I get older I tend to consider every moment a once in a lifetime experience.

Since I love my non working life and hate my job, the ideal would be drinking at work and sober at home. :D Not to be, regretfully.

Clark

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Originally Posted by Ducatista47

Since I love my non working life and hate my job, the ideal would be drinking at work and sober at home.

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I'm signing up for that! :bouncy:

Please Please listen to any Coltrane album with Alvin Jones on the drums... Coltrane liked to play with him because he felt as though he sounded like 2 drummers.. not frenzied mind you, just laying down the most incredible and nuanced back beat ever.

That's Elvin Jones, not Alvin. :)

Yeah.. real early in the morning and old age :blink:

I hear ya! (or maybe I don't?....http://paiste-only.com/phpBB2/images...haracter32.gif )


:D

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Originally Posted by Ralph856

Marshall Allen was playin over here only a few weeks ago at Cafe Oto but I missed it, unfortunately. Not sure I'll get another chance seeing as he's 85 :o:. But i digress...

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Looks like I'm getting another chance! :D

http://www.cafeoto.co.uk/THESUNRAARKESTRA-Day1.shtm

...Oh, with someone called Wayne Anthony Smith Jnr on drums.

I don't think he's been mentioned in this thread, but all of you have heard some of the great albums that the session drummer Russ Kunkel has worked on. Check out this list--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Kunkel

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Since I just saw the Woodstock film again, Michael Schrieve comes to mind. Here's his account of getting into Santana (and his reaction to seeing himself in the Woodstock film)--

" When I was 16 years old, I called up about a dozen of my musician friends and asked if they wanted to drive up to the Fillmore with me and see if we could sit in. Michael Bloomfield, Steven Stills and Al Kooper were playing together, billed as "Supersession." Every one of my friends said no, that I was crazy. It would never happen. Until I called my last friend, who was older than me and had actually moved out of his parents' house and was living with a girl, said, "Oh man, that sounds great. Hold on a minute," whereupon he spoke to his girlfriend about it and came back to the phone and said to me "Hey, I think I'm just gonna stay in tonight." Needless to say that one phone call is the reason I didn't marry until my early thirties....

At least I can try, I said to myself. It probably won't happen but tomorrow at least I can say that I tried. So I asked my folks, who were always supportive and trusting of my musical endeavors, for the keys to the car and drove the thirty miles up to the Fillmore. I went in and walked up to the stage, pulled on Mike Bloomfield's pant leg, looked up at him and said, " Hey man, I play drums, can I sit in?" Well I was 16 but looked 12 and I fully expected him to either kick me in the face or say "Go away kid!" But instead he said, "Well the drummer's a really nice guy, let me ask him."

Uh-oh. Hey, wait a minute, I thought. I was just going to try. Oh no! Well he comes back and says, "Yeah, it's cool, you can play." Oh shit. Then it hits me. I'm going to play with Michael Bloomfield, Steven Stills, and Al Kooper, on the sand stage that I'd seen with Cream, The Yardbirds, Van Morrison, Miles Davis, and BB King? Well, I played but I swear to this day I don't remember one note, not one moment of the jam. That's how scared I was. So we finished playing and now I'm backstage hanging out with the other musicians. Am I cool or what?

Well Stan Marcum and David Brown, the manager and bass player of Santana, came up to me and said, "Hey man, we heard you play and you sounded really good. We have a band called Santana and we've been thinking about getting a new drummer. Why don't you give us your number?" Well, I knew who Santana was; everybody did in the area. I had seen them, and even said to my brother once when we were watching them play, "I really want to play with these guys."

Cut to a year later. I never did hear from them. But, one night I was visiting a recording studio that I used to frequent to try to hustle free studio time for my own group. I'm walking in the front door and the drummer from Santana is walking out. I go inside and Santana was in the studio recording their first album for Columbia and Clive Davis, and they had just had a big falling out with their drummer! A couple of the guys recognized me from a year ago and asked me if I'd like to jam.

Well, we jammed. We played all night long and at the end of the night we all gathered in a small room off to the side. Actually, I think it was just Carlos, Gregg, and myself. Carlos asked me if I would like to join the band. I said, " You know, let me check my schedule." Just kidding!

That night they followed me home and I went into the house and woke my folks up and said, "See you later. This is where I get off." I ran out to the street, jumped into the car and drove up to San Francisco's Mission District, where the band was living in a house together. I took my appropriate place on the couch, and despite the excitement and because of the late hour, fell asleep.

I was in the band. And what a band it was! I soon saw this was no peace, love, hippie thing. This band was like a street gang and its weapon was music.

Cut to another year later and the band is set to play the Woodstock Festival. Bill Graham was able to get us on the show. We got paid, I think it was $500.00. We were known in California and we were doing a lot of festivals, always working, but still relatively unknown. We played the Woodstock show, which was of course incredible. It was also a mess. I think Paul Kantner had the best quote about Woodstock. " If you said you had a great time at Woodstock, you weren't there." Needless to say, we went over well. We were the right band at the right time. Our street gang tribal rhythms were perfect for the Woodstock tribe that day.

Another year later and we're touring more, our first record is out and the Woodstock movie is opening in theaters across the country. Santana is playing in New York and our first day off we go to see the movie. We're standing in line waiting for the earlier showing to finish, and as the people are coming out of the theatre, we notice quite a few of the people in line. We didn't know if we were going to end up in the film or not. After all, we were the unknown group there that day.

Halfway through the movie there we are playing Soul Sacrifice. Halfway through into my drum solo the screen splits and there are 6 images of me across it. I didn't know whether to shout out, "That's me!" or sink down in my seat. I sank down in my seat and watched and listened. At the end of the song the whole theatre burst into applause, as the 6 of us turned in our seats and looked at each other in laughter and surprise.

Well, our little musical street gang had just made a sound heard round the world. As the film was released around the world, the band became known everywhere. On our first trip Europe to play the Montreux Jazz Festival, I walked to the train station to pick up some magazines, and there I was on the cover of one, in a small shot from Woodstock.

Everywhere we went people knew us. Our album shot up the charts. This was all pretty heavy stuff for a 19-year old kid, but I loved it. As a drummer, there was no better band to be in. This was about really playing your instrument and these guys would really keep you on your toes. If you didn't play well you would hear about it! We played everywhere. We were one of the first groups to play Mexico and Central and South America. We played Africa, the Far East, the Philippines and Europe many times.

Cut to 15-20 years later and I'm walking down 5th Avenue in New York City. By this time, I'd been out of Santana over 10 years, made about 7 solo albums; played on many people's records, done a lot of stuff. A guy walks up to me and says, "Hey Mike Shrieve! Oh man, I saw you in Woodstock. You were so great! I loved it so much....but what happened man? You've gotten....older."

Well thousands of people have mentioned Woodstock to me. I kept trying to beat it with something else I did, but realized over time that this would never happen, and I learned to live with the fact, and accept that it meant so much to so many people, that you just couldn't fight it. It seemed I was 18 forever to them, and so be it. I'm 48 now and I've had a fruitful and long creative career but nothing has compared to my experience of playing in Santana."
1998

Dino Danelli of the Young Rascals. He shown to good effect in this live performence from the Ed Sullivan Show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxfDR4CWLME


And how about Mick Waller?

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Originally Posted by sba2

Since I just saw the Woodstock film again, Michael Schrieve comes to mind. Here's his account of getting into Santana (and his reaction to seeing himself in the Woodstock film)--

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I mentioned Mike Shrieve above. One of my faves.

I searched this old thread and found no mention of the overlooked Caroline Corr, of the hyper talented family band The Corrs. Even more so than with bass players, I most respect drummers who have metric precision, keep the beat and don't show off. She is a great example. She kept time for a large band on a big, big stage, hit the skins hard, sang harmonies every song and never let it show when she was tired. Another consideration, in a band like this and with no solos, the task is relentless. No breaks. She does get a lot of love, but almost exclusively from other drummers. That says something.

An example of a talented, workmanlike drummer who never shows off and became the most respected of his generation is Jack DeJohnette. In Pop and Rock it will never happen, because showoffs rule.

She may also be one of the prettiest drummers who ever played. Hey, it never hurts.

The description of this video (the second to last song in a long concert) says it all. "Ah Caroline à la batterie !!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM_83...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Ducatista47

I searched this old thread and found no mention of the overlooked Caroline Corr, of the hyper talented family band The Corrs.

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Oh I didn't overlook her... I always set the DVD to pan on her exclusively...They needed a drummer so she stepped up to the plate.

I doubt she'll ever suffer the same fate as Karen Carpenter with respect to getting moved out from behind the kit.

Sheila E isn't in the thread either.

Maybe they're just good and not great.

Indeed, it is likely that only two classes of people are qualified to single out great drummers. Good drummers, obviously, and musicians who have played with a lot of drummers. I am neither. I do stick with my criteria that flash is an element of showmanship (entertainment) and not talent or the ability to demonstrate it. Let's say I hope I am entitled to my opinion there.;)

I look at Caroline having stepped up to the plate as no demerit to her ability. I find really talented, hard working musicians and artists (something I do know a lot about) like star college athletic prospects headed for the pros. The same people have to decide between baseball, basketball and football, and would excel at whichever they chose. Size would help with most football positions (Willie Gault being an exception), height with basketball and the mysterious ability to hit major league pitching in baseball. But despite all that it seems to be the same people anyway. There is a reason why musical ability runs in families. Like all artistic ability it appears to be bestowed, not gathered. Teachers can only bring out what is there; they cannot teach talent.

Yep. I just noticed Jeff Porcaro wasn't in this thread either. Nor Dennis Wilson. Merely good I suppose.

Bestowed, not gathered... Have you heard of the "10,000-Hour Rule"?

I'm not sure what to think about Cindy Bradley. I want to think that she is an example of the "10,000-Hour Rule". Bestowed or gathered, she's quite good.

Did I miss Gene Krupa?

In addition to being a fabulous drummer, Gene was a true innovator. Drumming wouldn't look like it does today and drummers wouldn't play like they do today if it wasn't for Gene.

He invented tunable heads on the top and bottoms of toms, developed what we now know as the hi-hat, and was a fantastic showman and drummer. And to top it all off, Buddy Rich loved him!


Here's him and Buddy. Buddy is the MASTER technician, but Gene had great feel with Benny Goodman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ5B7yqDYbA

Meg White ? mebbe not great, but not bad :dont-know:

Ill second, third and fourth Jack Dejonette, Tin Can Alley baby!

Lets not forget John Bonham, clearly deserving of a "whole lotta love".

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Originally Posted by laurie

I've seen threads about incredible guitar players and great bass players, so how about paying tribute to those great keepers of time, the drummers :)

I've seen many great drummers over the years. I will start with some of my favourite drummers: (I've put an asterix next to drummers I've seen live in London)

Stewart Copeland
Bill Bruford *
Tony Williams *
Jack DeJohnette *
Danny Gottlieb
Cindy Blackman
Dennis Chambers *
Peter Erskine *
Rayford Griffin
Billy Cobham *
Narada Michael Walden
Steve Jordan

Who do you coonsider to be great drummers?

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Not one has mentioned Vinnie Colaiuta.

http://www.vinniecolaiuta.com/

Arguably the best living drummer on the planet.

Everyone knows that this is the best drummer in the known universe ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/edmolek?feature=watch

Neil Peart can take "sick days" now. :rotfl:

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Originally Posted by Ducatista47

I searched this old thread and found no mention of the overlooked Caroline Corr

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Caroline moves over to the bodhran and Mick takes the sticks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WodFMmSjCoE

Her and Mick together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIi3AZe3Sik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1amhE2xvA

:applaud:

Fantastic!!

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Originally Posted by 4313B

Everyone knows that this is the best drummer in the known universe ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/edmolek?feature=watch

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Dang MIDGET!! hardly see him behind the drum kit!

Ginger Baker was "The Man". Quite the assh^&E but a great drummer.

Thanks! After being recently unemployed I dropped a few dimes for the Corrs CD :D

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Originally Posted by 4313B

Everyone knows that this is the best drummer in the known universe ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/edmolek?feature=watch

Neil Peart can take "sick days" now. :rotfl:

Caroline moves over to the bodhran and Mick takes the sticks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WodFMmSjCoE

Her and Mick together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIi3AZe3Sik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1amhE2xvA

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