More on comparing "vintage" JBLs to "classic" JBLs

In another thread I started about the Paragon, it seems that most criticism is related to the design of its enclosure which makes for an artful piece of furniture, but is maybe not optimal for acoustic performance.

But how about other vintage JBLs such as the Sovereign and Olympus, which could be ordered with high quality systems such as the S7/S8 or S7R/S8R (utilizing a passive radiator). I'm seeing some of these come up on Ebay lately, and like the Paragon they're really beautifully crafted pieces of furniture in their own right. They were out just before my time (I started with new L100s) and I've never had the opportunity to listen to a set but I'm beginning to appreciate them for their apparent quality of worksmanship. How do these rate in terms of sound quality and accuracy compared to later speakers such as the L112, L150A, L300 or L250?

And JBL improved in that respect over time.

The mid 70's could generally be considered the transition period from overly heavy reliance on the quality of transducers to a more balanced approach.

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Originally Posted by 4313B

And JBL improved in that respect over time.

The mid 70's could generally be considered the transition period from overly heavy reliance on the quality of transducers to a more balanced approach.

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Would the beginning of that transition period be exemplified by the introduction of the L212?

The Everest, K2's, the Ti line (120ti, 18ti, 250ti etc.) are of the historic quality you refer to... One small example might be a L19 from the 70's compared to a L20t from the late 80's or even an L1 from the 90's. Quality and construction very similar. The main change is the wife factor and money, people are use to getting cheep trash from china (ex. Bose, Pinnacle) on my tv in the bedroom. JBL still can and does build a world class product you just have to be willing to pay for it.

Just my 2 cents...

Ps. on the flip side are any of the high end JBL's still handcrafted in the USA???

The way this type of thing works is that you grow to like what you live with. (Bo had L100's like you).

The early vintage systems stength was their apparent hi sensitivity. That made them suitable for low powered amplification of that era.

The L 100 was considerably smaller, less sensitive but it had wider bandwith and it could be said was more accurate.

The large L series went a bit lower and louder and the titanium based tweeters were considered an improvement at the time. The L250 and later L250Ti was one of JBL most successful loudspeakers.

There is also the factor of the "Transistor Revolution." Tube amplification systems ranged from very low power (single-ended triode designs: 3-8W) to moderate power (Push-pull Class AB: 25-50W) and thus high sensitivity (not the same thing as efficiency) drivers were necessary. It is difficult to achieve flat frequency response in a system designed for maximum sensitivity. As well, even with the use of negative feedback, tube amplifiers do not achieve the damping factors found in transistor designs due to higher output impedances. this means less control in the bass region.

Transistor designs sounded pretty awful in the early days, however output power climbed rapidly as the technology was improved and better bass control was possible. Now, power rose to 150...300...whoa, even over 1KW designs. With all this extra available power, low sensitivity designs could be developed with more complex crossovers (and who cares if we lose more watts in the crossover, there are plenty to spare) and flat frequency response was easier to achieve.

There is no doubt that modern designs have smoother frequency response...and tubes have come back as well. You can get KW tube amplifiers, but there has also been a resurgence of interest in low power tube designs, which need high sensitivity speaker systems. Both types of amplification (tube and transistor) can sound great, and the same can be said for the old versus new speaker systems. It's a matter of preference: my system is all horn-loaded, driven by Monoblock Class A Push-Pull triode amplifiers supplied by tube-regulated power supplies. Great power, control, dynamics, attack, detail, richness and sweetness. But...not the last word in smooth frequency response, transparency or soundstage.

To finish: to make a fair comparison of old versus new, I would use the kind of amplification for which the transducer system was originally designed.

I have a JBL 2226J and EV DH1-1 2" compression driver on a 350hz Edgar tractix horn.

The system is 97db/watt and is run on my 300B SET amp 8wpc.

You won't shake the windows with this kind of power, but if I were to need to I would bring my MC-240 down and use it 40wpc.

See my avatar for my speaker system.

Cheers, Ron

Some current JBLs have very high sensitivity. Looking at some of the JBLs I'm currently running, the newest are the most sensitive by far.

The S/2600, 4430, and SVA2100 all have relatively high sensitivity, too, and of course they're all horns. They sound fine with moderate amplification, and in fact the S/2600s were paired with a modest digital amp for a long time.

Since I find tubes to be disturbingly murky to my hearing, I don't take advantage of the possible pairings, though I keep hoping to find a unit that doesn't irk me. In the mean time, low power, clean SS pleases me with the S/2600s, and big amps with the other horns sound spectacular.

There's no question in my experience that the current JBL crop contains the best products ever and, yes, some lesser products, too. Perhaps they are not as imposing, nostalgic, or bulky as the heritage units, but they outperform in all the ways that matter to me.

Truth be told, I like most quality JBls of whatever era, and enjoy hearing them any time. When it comes to what I'll buy and keep, then there's just no room for the bulky, ostentatious vintage gear. That's a personal choice and preference, not an indictment of anyone else's different choice and preference. :)

SAM1HF: 98dB sensitivity
SAM2LF: 92dB sensitivity
S1S-EX: 97dB sensitivity

PT800: 91dB sensitivity
PS1400: 91dB sensitivity

L7: 91dB sensitivity

S/2600: 92dB sensitivity

XPL200: 90dB sensitivity

SVA2100: 93dB sensitivity

4430: 93dB sensitivity

240Ti: 89dB sensitivity

L250: 90dB sensitivity

L100: 91dB sensitivity

By high sensitivity I had in mind:

D130 - 103dB@1W/1M
LE85/2420 - 118dB@1W/1M
077/2405H - 105dB@1W/1M

which, together as a system, will be limited by the lowest sensitivity
driver in its region of lowest sensitivity... in the bandwidth of intended
use, unless bi-amped... in this case, something less than 103dB (still crazy
sensitive, relative to most home systems :))

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Originally Posted by Beowulf57

By high sensitivity I had in mind:

D130 - 103dB@1W/1M
LE85/2420 - 118dB@1W/1M
077/2405H - 105dB@1W/1M

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I was thinking about things I'd actually want to listen to. :p





OK, I'm kidding, those drivers aren't that bad. :D

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Originally Posted by Titanium Dome

OK, I'm kidding, those drivers aren't that bad. :D

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There isn't anything inherently wrong with almost any JBL driver... it's all in the application and implementation.

For example 075s used to count rail cars. :D


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Originally Posted by Titanium Dome

I was thinking about things I'd actually want to listen to. :p

OK, I'm kidding, those drivers aren't that bad. :D

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Golly gee...I sure am glad I'm not too sensitive...:D