My 4345 observations

These are my observations listening to Grapelli and Menuhin and a Album by Robin. a classical Jazz and new electric type violin.

Very detailed soundstage, even at my age and hearing I was mesmerized. It sounded like the album members were right in front of us (a friend who is university trained music major Violin and Piano) No tunneling of the Bass, it seemed to envelope the whole room, when a measure stopped for a moment and another instrument came in there was dead silence, no electronic BS The highs and mids were articulate and you could hear the piano hammers and the violin bow.

I know the guys with the M2's etc. have it better but these are the best I have ever had. :jawdrop:

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Originally Posted by quindecima

These are my observations listening to Grapelli and Menuhin and a Album by Robin. a classical Jazz and new electric type violin.

Very detailed soundstage, even at my age and hearing I was mesmerized. It sounded like the album members were right in front of us (a friend who is university trained music major Violin and Piano) No tunneling of the Bass, it seemed to envelope the whole room, when a measure stopped for a moment and another instrument came in there was dead silence, no electronic BS The highs and mids were articulate and you could hear the piano hammers and the violin bow.

I know the guys with the M2's etc. have it better but these are the best I have ever had. :jawdrop:

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Amazing isn't it? You will listen your albums in a all different way! Like an album you've never heard before.
I'm a big fan of Grapelli. You should J-L Ponty I guess... Big fan too...
Enjoy!

Yes, they can be stunning - especially when refurbished.

The 2245s are effortless with very low Q - tonality is amazing, and I frequently measure audible sub 40 Hz frequencies, not "thump", listening even at very low gain. Also, the sound stage is very wide. If you've the means and sources, the TAD TD-2002 is a remarkable swap option for the 2421Bs. They bolt right onto the horn, and are almost impossibly smooth and flat. I cannot overstate the merits of this change-over.

Those things are waaaaaay beyond my means but they would be nice.

What amplifiers are being used, assuming they are bi amped, along with what external crossover?

I am not bi-amping them at the moment but am thinking seriously about it. I have two Adcom 555ii that I can use (wish I had a smaller tube amp for the top end) and no external network at the moment.

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What amplifiers are being used, assuming they are bi amped, along with what external crossover?

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I also run a 4345 system again, after a long layoff (needed replacement transducers, kindly supplied by Ian Mackenzie and Rusty Jefferson). I listened to it all afternoon and evening yesterday. Amps are First Watt F5 and Denon PMA-2000R (biamped). I use a First Watt B1 active buffer instead of a preamp, something I recommend as modern sources need no preamp gain at all. It has separate left and right volume controls and a simple toggle switch for source selection. Distortion is .0007%. This unit can be home built very reasonably, as can the F5 amp. The crossovers are a JBL M552 for the split and the original unit, heavily improved by Ian, for the top. I think it all sounds really nice.

The Denon for the 2245H is a MOSFET high current, dual mono unit and the F5 is the most transparent amp yet built by Nelson Pass. The M552 is probably fine, but because several members here think it substandard I am in the process of building a Marchand XM9 based unit. If I ever have to sell this system the XM9 board has the capability to partially address asymmetry at the crossover point, which I think was a feature of the original crossover. I'll leave that for any future owner to work out.

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Originally Posted by Triumph Don

What amplifiers are being used, assuming they are bi amped, along with what external crossover?

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Bryston BP26 pre-amp. Fantastic sonic quality.

Bi-amped:

Bryston 10B L-R (custom), -24dB/octave, knee at 290 Hz. I started with -12dB, in respect of the passive crossover specs. Then I trialed a 5234A with the 51-5145 cards (-18 dB), which to my ears had better clarity at crossover, but my copy was overall noisy so I trialed M552 for a while (-24dB). I liked it quite a bit better, and after some time opted for the Bryston on advice of Widget. Widget's never wrong about this kinda stuff...

Amps are PA gear - it works for me. QSC CX502 (LF); Lab-Gruppen fP3400 (MF/HF). I recently swapped-in a QSC CX702 in-place of the Lab-Gruppen (power supply issue) and although massively overpowered, I think the QSC might sound better - more open. Objective A/B is impossible, but subjectively, I've not rushed back to the fP3400...:dont-know:

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Originally Posted by quindecima

Those things are waaaaaay beyond my means but they would be nice. . .
I am not bi-amping them at the moment but am thinking seriously about it. I have two Adcom 555ii that I can use (wish I had a smaller tube amp for the top end) and no external network at the moment.

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I've had my 4345 "clones" for roughly eight-years now. Couldn't be happier. I bi-amp with an Ashly XR1001 active crossover. They can be found used for a bit over $100 or brand-new for around $250. My amps are Crown PS200 and PS400. I think the most I've paid for a Crown is something over $200. Some were far less! You don't have to spend mega-dollars to make these speakers sound fantastic.

If you use the m552 be sure to check the internal jumpers. They were designed for either the 2381 or 2360 horns and have eq compensation.

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Originally Posted by dezmond

If you use the m552 be sure to check the internal jumpers. They were designed for either the 2381 or 2360 horns and have eq compensation.

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Luckily I am old school about some things and read the manual before I plug in something new. :) I might have never seen the model but a JBL Tent Sale had a few "for less than we paid for these." Might be the only gear I am currently using, along with the B-1, a CDP and a DAC, that I bought new.