Mind Blown - 4670d in the home

Well...I may have crossed over to the "other side". I've been here for about 2 decades now, dabbling mostly in vintage JBL home speakers (peaking with the 250Ti). I've never considered myself a horn guy all these years. The various Klipsch models have never really done it for me, and my own years spend in bands left me associating "Horn" with "PA System".

Well that's all out the window now :-)

Thanks to a new local member here who had been experimenting with various permutations of 4670 parts, I am now the owner of most of what he had. A very good (and strong) friend helped me get them all back to his basement man cave and we spent most of Saturday night spending equal amounts of time laughing at how good they were, and shaking our heads over all of the "audiophile" sacred cows that were getting slayed.

For the initial setup I was using an old AudioArts 2-way crossover (analog and a little noisy) with a Yamaha 1/3 octave EQ ahead of it in the signal chain so I could smooth out some room nodes and remove a little of the horn sound around 1-3k. From there I used an old ATX 8x50 channel "whole house" amp on both the lows and highs. I didn't even have enough proper 1/4 -> RCA cables so a lot of the connections were using 1/4->RCA barrel connectors. It was a Frankenstein setup and would have made any card-carrying audiophile break out in laughter.

That is, until the music started...

O M G

I thought I knew dynamics

I thought I knew how a bass drum should sound

I thought I knew how a trumpet should sound

I thought I had accurate vocal reproduction in my own system

In short, a favorite quote from GoT was playing over and over in my mind ... "You know nothing John Snow".

:-)

I am not even sure that I am going to mess with a digital xover like a DriveRack. The sound is just so well balanced that even with a little hiss between tracks, it's just stunning. There's nothing below about 30hz and there's nothing above 15khz. It's noisy and the imaging is not exactly holographic. But damn it's just addictive to listen to. Track after track we tried to trip up the system and find something it didn't do well. Our own "audiophile" speakers (I have Revel Salon 2's and he has Ariel 10Ts) were suddenly looking very, very overmatched for everything other than being able to smell Diana Krall's breath :-).

It's a new world here in 2021 for me. Looking forward to a new journey into large format JBL horns!

jblnut

Not familiar with ATX amps but if it has RCA connectors it is likely has a fairly high sensitivity often in the range of -10dbv. Your Yamaha EQ and AudioArts crossover are designed for amps with lower sensitivity in the range of +4dbv. Try turning the amp gains down by 14db or more and run your preamp level high and see if that doesn't cure your hiss problem.

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Originally Posted by jblnut

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For the initial setup I was using an old AudioArts 2-way crossover (analog and a little noisy) with a Yamaha 1/3 octave EQ ahead of it in the signal chain so I could smooth out some room nodes and remove a little of the horn sound around 1-3k. From there I used an old ATX 8x50 channel "whole house" amp on both the lows and highs. ...

jblnut

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Yup - that's on the list (and it's long) of things that need to be done here, starting with some proper 1/4 - RCA cables. Just ordered those a few moment ago. The amp is very temporary and was just what I had kicking around (Thanks to Widget who sent it my way 10 years ago). . I think we're going to try tubes on the horn next and some monster Denon monos for the bass cabs.

This is just a day 1 report and we're a lonnngggg way from the finish line...


jblnut

See what happens when you add a sub! Think it's good now just wait!

Rob:)

It's on the list somewhere between using a modern digital xover (DriveRack) and tubes for the horn. We both didn't think it really needed one after I bumped the lower sliders a few db on the EQ. They are in a treated concrete basement so there is zero resonance from wooden floors or walls to muddy things up. They hit very hard even into the upper 30's.

But yeah, I have a sub using the SUB1500 driver (remember our "group purchase" all those years ago) on deck ready for duty....

Oh, and I have two complete bass cabs here to try. One is loaded with 2226's (which is what we used this weekend) and another with 2035s. What differences can we expect when we try the 2035 loaded cabs ?



jblnut

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One is loaded with 2226's (which is what we used this weekend) and another with 2035s. What differences can we expect when we try the 2035 loaded cabs ?

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They are supposed to be interchangeable main differences is power handling. Curious to see what you find, I have used 2035's and found them to be good drivers.

Rob:)

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Originally Posted by jblnut

Well...I may have crossed over to the "other side".

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Welcome to the other side. Other than a pair of L100s I picked up along the way and recently gave to a buddy, all the JBLs I have had were horn loaded. The bigger the better!

You may have ventured over to the other side, but I'll bet the journey is just beginning!

Welcome into the Matrix.


Widget

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jblnut

In short, a favorite quote from GoT was playing over and over in my mind ... "You know nothing John Snow".

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Right there... you made me crack... thanks! :D

And yes... horns, see my avatar ;)

They give that "in your face" feeling that you don't get otherwise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

Welcome to the other side. Other than a pair of L100s I picked up along the way and recently gave to a buddy, all the JBLs I have had were horn loaded. The bigger the better!

You may have ventured over to the other side, but I'll bet the journey is just beginning!

Welcome into the Matrix.


Widget

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Agree 100% with widget the bigger the better. Large JBL Horn systems are simply the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jblnut

It's on the list somewhere between using a modern digital xover (DriveRack) and tubes for the horn. We both didn't think it really needed one after I bumped the lower sliders a few db on the EQ. They are in a treated concrete basement so there is zero resonance from wooden floors or walls to muddy things up. They hit very hard even into the upper 30's.

But yeah, I have a sub using the SUB1500 driver (remember our "group purchase" all those years ago) on deck ready for duty....

Oh, and I have two complete bass cabs here to try. One is loaded with 2226's (which is what we used this weekend) and another with 2035s. What differences can we expect when we try the 2035 loaded cabs ?



jblnut

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You're welcomed to experiment as you wish. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the 2035s. They are the low-powered 2226 and built for $$$ reduction only. They use a 3" V.C. instead of a 4"

If you like the sound of the 4670D, you'll love the sound of the 4675C. Ditch the 2380 horn for a 2360 and you'll be amazed at the difference. Personally, I'm not a fan of the 4670D and its all due to the 2380 horn...the rest I'm fine with.

I'd love a pair of those larger horns. Anyone got a stash ?

jblnut

Checking back in, interested in any updates or insights.

Yes, we did some experiments with a DBX Venue 360 recently, and it was quite a surprise. Despite all of the digital wizardry of this device (including room analysis and many kinds of EQ), we just could not get it to sound as good as it does with a 30-40 year old analog crossover and EQ. This was hugely surprising and not expected. While the 360 does produce what could only be described as a "pleasant" sound, it totally crushes all of the magic that the system has without it.

We're on the hunt for the larger horns now and another set of compression drivers so that we can have two complete sets of speakers. I am also trying to see if I can get an old friend to part with his JBL 18" pro subs so that we can get the lowest octave squared away here.

It's been a lot of fun to play with these and it's a total 180 from the (Revel) sound I hear every day in my house. Jury is still out on the long term plan for these. I expect my enabler friend to keep one set of these. The other set may end up in my basement, or it might get re-skinned/re-cabineted (is that a word) so that it can pass the WAF test for my living room.

I am looking out for K2 S9900's as well as I know these will have no issue meeting both my sonic and visual needs.

jblnut

I completely concur with jblnut on the quality of these speakers. I've been playing with a used pair (but with 2035's & passive network crossover) for about a month and they are fantastic. Not perfect, but very involving/exciting for both 2ch and HT. I may look at upgrading the 4" diaphragms with JBL D8R2450SL 's since they are reportedly very smooth (but maybe at the cost of some HF extension).

My question is, I am now looking for a suitable center channel that can keep up with these for HT. I know a 3rd 4670 as a center would be ideal, but I only have room for a smaller speaker which will go underneath my tv once I mount it on the wall...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eXkE5Wep94dheQRX8

Any ideas? I'd like to stick with JBL products and the best I could come up with (so far) would be something like a SRX712, although it is really meat as a PA speaker. I'm sure it would be fantastic as a center if you can get over the PA looks.

Also looking at a subwoofer to fill in the last octave...anyone have experience with either a jbl 4645 or QSC SB - 5118?

Have the earlier version 4675 with 2-2225H’s and 2360 horns 2445J mid/high drivers and 3160 crossovers. The other horn I have tried is the 2382 which is 40x120 not to bad but the 2360 does sound the best. A nice electronic crossover that works very well with these speakers is JBL M 522. It is a 24 db and has the horn correction equalization built in. For the 80 series and 60 series horns. It is a analog one
The 3 way is M553 if you want to add a tweeter. I use this setup with my 3 way 4520 speakers.