Power amp for Jubals

Hi friends, for sure I'll do some errors (English is not my language), so I'll try to be schematic.

Instruments: Jbl l65 Jubal, Sansui au 9500, Naim cd5si. No vinyl, no streaming.

Music: I'm going to divide it into three groups.

a: Pere Ubu, Captain Beefheart, Faust, This Heat, Dna, Public Image Limited, Jesus Lizard, Cop Shoot Cop, Unsane, Big Black, Sonic Youth, Royal Trux, Chrome, The Fall, Pussy Galore; Thin White Rope and so on.

b: Nick Cave, Gun Club, Mark Lanegan, Wovenhand, Velvet Underground, Giant Sand and so on.

c: Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan , Neil Young, Townes Van Zandt and so on.

No jazz, no classical music.

Listening volume: medium or low. No party, no crashed walls.

Problem: I like my instruments, but in particular, with the first group of musicians, I think my Jubals should give me more impact. They say these speakers need to be feeded, so, with 600/700 dollars, I would like to obtain a 200w power amp. I have got this list: HK Citation 22, Adcom Gfa 555, Carver 1.0t., Sae l2400. I like the sound of my Sansui (totally restored and recapped one year ago), so I would prefer a warm or neutral power amp, not too analytical. The pre amp will come later.

Question: anybody here who listens this kind of music with Jubal (or L100, 4311, L166, L112 and so on) and a power amp belonging to the list I have compiled? Are these power amps good with vintage Jbl? Other suggestions?

Thank you!

Carlo

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Originally Posted by TWR

Hi friends, for sure I'll do some errors (English is not my language), so I'll try to be schematic.



Instruments: Jbl l65 Jubal, Sansui au 9500, Naim cd5si. No vinyl, no streaming.

Music: I'm going to divide it into three groups.

a: Pere Ubu, Captain Beefheart, Faust, This Heat, Dna, Public Image Limited, Jesus Lizard, Cop Shoot Cop, Unsane, Big Black, Sonic Youth, Royal Trux, Chrome, The Fall, Pussy Galore; Thin White Rope and so on.

b: Nick Cave, Gun Club, Mark Lanegan, Wovenhand, Velvet Underground, Giant Sand and so on.

c: Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan , Neil Young, Townes Van Zandt and so on.

No jazz, no classical music.

Listening volume: medium or low. No party, no crashed walls.

Problem: I like my instruments, but in particular, with the first group of musicians, I think my Jubals should give me more impact. They say these speakers need to be feeded, so, with 600/700 dollars, I would like to obtain a 200w power amp. I have got this list: HK Citation 22, Adcom Gfa 555, Carver 1.0t., Sae l2400. I like the sound of my Sansui (totally restored and recapped one year ago), so I would prefer a warm or neutral power amp, not too analytical. The pre amp will come later.

Question: anybody here who listens this kind of music with Jubal (or L100, 4311, L166, L112 and so on) and a power amp belonging to the list I have compiled? Are these power amps good with vintage Jbl? Other suggestions?

Thank you!

Carlo

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Mine are powered with a Sherwood S9910 (rated at 100w/ch into 8 ohms, but closer to 120w/ch) which is more than adequate power for them. The L65 has pretty good sensitivity and in my case, the Sherwood is plenty for them.

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Originally Posted by TWR

Question: anybody here who listens this kind of music with Jubal (or L100, 4311, L166, L112 and so on) and a power amp belonging to the list I have compiled? Are these power amps good with vintage Jbl? Other suggestions?

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Welcome!

I have JBL 4345, 250Ti, L150A, L112, 4412A, L96, L1-3-5-and 7, among others, and have used Crown amps for over 50-years. Current system used bi-amped 4345 with Crown PS200 and PS400. Great amps that are undervalued in the marketplace. I also have a Crown Studio Reference-II, Crown DC300A-II and D150A-II, a couple of Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Fours, JBL/Urei 6260, Carver, and Adcom. They all work well and have not cost very much. Prices may vary, especially in Europe, but the Crown PS-400 is a great amp with about 200WPC into 8-ohms often for less than $500.

I used the JBL L65 for less than a year, followed by the LSR32 and the 4333A, then on to other things.

I doubt the problem is amplification. I think you may be expecting too much from the woofer in the Jubals, especially if it is the 122, but even if not. To me it never sounded like anything but a modest 12 inch woofer unable to keep up.

I'm suggesting you consider putting your money into a speaker move instead.

The 4311 would be a retro move in some ways, but it would be punchier; the woofer has the aquaplassed cone, a smaller cabinet and no inductor in front of it.

You might like the more recent (and still supported by JBL) LSR32 or 6332. (Don't know if they were ever sold in Europe). Very tight articulate upper bass, clear midrange and acceptable treble, definitely a step up from all versions of the L65. They are monitors without grilles, though. Careless readers blanche at the specs which state +1, -1.5 dB 60hz to 22khz (actually a big deal) and believe all would be lost without a subwoofer, but I doubt the Jubals -3dB and -10dB points are much different. I found the 32's to be so much easier to listen to; the L65's seemed raspy in comparison--the 077 is crossed in way lower than it should be. Look for some 32's coming out of a home studio. Good luck. Be careful out there.

It makes sense to use speakers made in this century and supported by the manufacturer. L65 to LSR 32: 25-30 years of technical development, and JBL was not standing still in those days.

Thanks for your suggestions! I will consider Crown preamps too, but some models are not common in Europe. In this moment, my first choice is HK Citation 22, which is available and, probably, in good conditions. I never listened the 4311 model (just have a pair of L19 too), but I think the Jubals will play during my funeral, so...

Which L65 version do you have? There are three, if there is an A or B behind the serial number you have an L65A or L65B, all different woofers. There is no capacitor in the signal path to the woofer, so that should not be a problem.

Be sure that you have the correct woofers, and that they are in good condition with the proper (foam) surround attached to the back of the cone, and in good condition. Improperly "refoamed" woofers can degrade your bass. Also, if they have been used hard it is possible that the AlNiCo magnet isn't as strong as it once was (L65 & L65A).

Are they on the floor on their original risers or up on stands? The original floor-standing configuration is how the were designed to (floor couple) develop their bass. If you put them on stands you might need to EQ some more of whatever frequency you're missing.

Is the Sansui in good condition? Failing coupling caps can diminish bass, a weak power supply can degrade transients / reserve power.

A healthy 75wpc amplifier should give you good music from those speakers at your listening levels, provided all is in good condition and you're not expecting subwoofer bass. You can very inexpensively add a quality subwoofer to your system, it might be all that you need and will save you an amplifier change, if the main speakers are "high-passed" at 60Hz or above and hand over the amplification to the subwoofer the 75WPC from your Sansui will be available for the rest of the spectrum, should be more than enough.

I can't recall all of the amplifiers I've had hooked to my L65As, but felt that they sounded as good as any of the 12" 3-way JBLs of that era regarding dynamics and bass. Most likely they were played on my MC240 (50WPC - valve amp) among others, and didn't lack in dynamics.

The most important thing IMO when looking at making a change, especially one that costs money, is measure measure measure. If you can get into that room with a calibrated mic and something like REW software you will be able to tell what you're really hearing, and where any deficiencies might be. It could be something as simple as a bass-wave cancellation / reflection (aka: "suck-out") at a critical frequency which makes them sound lethargic. More power will mean more reflection, and you're "pissing into the wind" on this fix. If you can't measure, try different speaker placement, move them a foot further into the room / from the back wall, try a different wall, be sure it's the amp before you start to change components.

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Originally Posted by TWR

. . . . In this moment, my first choice is HK Citation 22, which is available and, probably, in good conditions. I never listened the 4311 model (just have a pair of L19 too), but I think the Jubals will play during my funeral, so...

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Well, this should be interesting. The Citation will certainly be a jump up from a 75 wpc receiver. Please keep us posted on developments.

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Originally Posted by TWR

In this moment, my first choice is HK Citation 22, which is available and, probably, in good conditions.

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:applaud: Always a good choice!

A friend many years back stayed in our basement family room for a few months while his house was undergoing some remodeling and to keep his stereo and other gear safe & clean he brought over his L65s with a Citation 16, Dynaco PAT4, AR turntable, Advent 201 cassette deck and a Kenwood tuner.
The Citation 16 was more power than needed, but the system sounded great. He blew a midrange after he moved back to his house, but that is when JBL repaired them under warranty,

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Originally Posted by BMWCCA

:applaud: Always a good choice!

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A Citation 22 is going to arrive here. I hope it will be good.