High cost Speaker wire, interconnectors and upgraded power cords?

After reading about the merits of such upgrades-both positive and negative opinions, is there anybody who can offer some scientific facts that back up the claims that a vast improvement ( or significant improvement ) justifies the rather large amount of cash for such things? Or, as I suspect, they are mostly gimmicks for the audiophile that has too much spare change lying around?

Besides looking good, is thier a positive change in the MUSIC? Just curious how this site looks upon these upgrades.

Thanks to all! Happy Holidays!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tom1040

After reading about the merits of such upgrades-both positive and negative opinions, is there anybody who can offer some scientific facts that back up the claims that a vast improvement ( or significant improvement ) justifies the rather large amount of cash for such things? Or, as I suspect, they are mostly gimmicks for the audiophile that has too much spare change lying around?

Besides looking good, is there a positive change in the MUSIC? Just curious how this site looks upon these upgrades.

Thanks to all! Happy Holidays!!!

---

Wow - this is a topic that never fails to light up the forum!
I don't think you can get a monolithic "LHS agrees" or LHS disagrees" perspective -

From all I have ever read (and a good audio idea in general) ...
... if you can't hear a difference, its not worth the money, no matter what ANYBODY says.

:cheers:

"Besides looking good, is thier a positive change in the MUSIC? Just curious how this site looks upon these upgrades."

Well depends on the upgrade. Berylium, Aguaplased diaphrams and Charge Coupled networks are all upgrades that work. They are all subtle but definite improvements. Fat power cords and $500 interconnects are another issue entirely. In my mind you should always use good quality interconnects, that's just common sense. I don't think that you should have to spend a great deal of money to get them.

Rob:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robh3606

"Besides looking good, is thier a positive change in the MUSIC? Just curious how this site looks upon these upgrades."

Well depends on the upgrade. Berylium, Aguaplased diaphrams and Charge Coupled networks are all upgrades that work. They are all subtle but definite improvements. Fat power cords and $500 interconnects are another issue entirely. In my mind you should always use good quality interconnects, that's just common sense. I don't think that you should have to spend a great deal of money to get them.

Rob:)

---

Thanks. However, I was asking about A.T.F. components to an existing system. I am not going to change out my stock 1400 Array ('cause I love it, as designed). I am unsure why "fat power cords & $$ interconnects" detract from my original inquiry..?

Those issues, infact, were my questions. For instance, with my Marantz MA9S2 monoblocks, would a 'better' power cord remit a magical musical passage of a song? Interconnectors serve a purpose. But is it something that would ADD to the sound? Would the Marantz SC7S2 or SA7S1 sound 'better' with the Arrays with (you name them) interconnectors?

Seriously, I am curious about this. If, in fact, someone can say that it does & how it does it, I would like to understand.

Again, thanks to all!



PS: as is the Arrays sound fantastic. I am researching:applaud:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tom1040

High cost Speaker wire, interconnectors and upgraded power cords?

Is there anybody who can offer some scientific facts that back up the claims that a vast improvement ( or significant improvement ) justifies the rather large amount of cash for such things? Or, as I suspect, they are mostly gimmicks for the audiophile that has too much spare change lying around?

---

If you had to ask, then you have the answer :bs:

For this the famous PT Barnum quote is spot on ;)

There are two answers to your question.

Some people like when their car looks "good". So they dress it up with all the Pep Boy accessories. So yes, those "fancy" interconnectors work. They bling.

The second answer is simple. Any wire has inductance, capacitance and resistance. Any single wire you can buy. Be they at $5.00 or $500.00... Wires that have capacitive caracter will cut lower frequencies. Wires that have inductive caracter will cut highs. So, yes you can tune your system with interconnects. But are they better than other regular wires? It depends on how you want to tune your system.

My own answer is simple. Biggest scam on earth.

Most of the high priced "offerings" make my BS detector twitch. The problem is that transparency is difficult to prove, and transparency is the best any audio component could deliver. It is, however, easy to define. Nothing should be added, nothing should be lost.

Most of the claims of high priced copper and silver products sound like they are striving to improve something. The only improvement worth buying is the stuff getting out of the way of the signal. Not enhancing it, not refining it, not putting it on steroids. Just passing it through unaltered. All the electronics fed by this copper or silver should do the same, except for amplification at some point.

If you want the best interconnects, since the best interconnect is no interconnect, buy high quality integrated amps to eliminate at least that connection. As for the wire you really need, as Robb said, transparent should not cost much, and, I would add, should not require any special technology. I suspect that the electrons coming out an ultra pure silver cable are no different from those going to a light bulb socket at the end of a lamp cord.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tom1040

Thanks. However, I was asking about A.T.F. components to an existing system. I am not going to change out my stock 1400 Array ('cause I love it, as designed). I am unsure why "fat power cords & $$ interconnects" detract from my original inquiry..?

Those issues, infact, were my questions. For instance, with my Marantz MA9S2 monoblocks, would a 'better' power cord remit a magical musical passage of a song? Interconnectors serve a purpose. But is it something that would ADD to the sound? Would the Marantz SC7S2 or SA7S1 sound 'better' with the Arrays with (you name them) interconnectors?

Seriously, I am curious about this. If, in fact, someone can say that it does & how it does it, I would like to understand.

Again, thanks to all!



PS: as is the Arrays sound fantastic. I am researching:applaud:

---

I just did a quick Audiogon check of the gear you mentioned in your system. Depending on your source, it looks like you've got a system value (retail) approaching $25,000. Some of what gave those components elevated value, and hopefully improved performance, are things like higher quality film capacitors, mil spec resistors, and possibly higher quality wire. Solid core silver wire, maybe?

If you've got this system in a good listening space, unencumbered by compromises of placement and furniture, etc. and you are using $7.00 interconnects and lamp cord from the Best Buy, I guarantee you will hear an improvement with better quality wire. Why? I can't answer that. I don't know if the engineers that design wire really know why.

The issue then becomes, at what price point should we spend, or at what point will I no longer hear, or my system will no longer reveal improvement? Only one way to find out. Does this mean you should spend $5000 on wire tomorrow? No. It has to be an amount that makes you comfortable, just like all the other pieces of equipment you bought, and will take some experimenting. It's possible that brand "X" mono blocks would have improved the sound of your system and cost $2000 less than the ones you have, but you're comfortable with the ones you have.

While people claim to hear differences, it still boggles my mind on the power cords. House is wired with say 12/2 Romex to the outlet, then you put a $$$ power cord between the outlet in the wall and the plug on the rear of the amp, but you pull the cover on the amp and it's just plain old 12ga copper from the plug to the circuitry in the amp. I have a hard time wrapping my head around how this particular 3ft piece in the entire chain could make such a difference.

I say let people buy what they like, but I'm awfully skeptical on this part.

.
last year I stumbled onto a good deal on RCA "interconnects" ...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...bles-NIB-cheap

bought 1 pair , took it home and compared to my only pair of name brand (AudioQuest) ones ...heard NO difference.
so went back over and over and bought all that I could ...then passed the deal off to my friends and forum members ...shipped them all over the USA and even to Oz ...you would recognize the names of the purchasing members as usually very audio quality conscious people.

these were well made, nice connector, Ch1nese produced Philips cables. I received only very positive feedback on the cables with no problems ...
(well actually the only problem was that there wasn't enough to fill all the requests.)

I rewired all my systems with those cables and nobody has heard anything to complain about ...in fact 1 forum member came over to pick some up and walked away with 10 pairs after the 250Ti demo.
(Hi Paul :wave:)

In my opinion, as long as a cable meets basic quality requirements, spending extra on designer cable is just a severe case of diminishing returns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rusty jefferson

If you've got this system in a good listening space, unencumbered by compromises of placement and furniture, etc. and you are using $7.00 interconnects and lamp cord from the Best Buy, I guarantee you will hear an improvement with better quality wire. Why? I can't answer that. I don't know if the engineers that design wire really know why.

---

Why? Because your unconscious self wants to hear a difference in order to justify the expense, it's all psychological, just like you feel your car runs smoother and quicker after giving it a good wash.


Emperor's new clothes.

If I spent $1500 on a pair of interconnects, I'd better make my friends believe they indeed sound better than $5.00 RCAs. Otherwise, I'd look like a fool. :D

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/stereovox.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eaulive

Why? Because your unconscious self wants to hear a difference in order to justify the expense, it's all psychological, just like you feel your car runs smoother and quicker after giving it a good wash.


Emperor's new clothes.

---

Some speaker wire may give a slight improvement over cheap zip cord,
but that esoteric really high end stuff is plainly in the vanity press market - high end just to say you bought high end ...

if you can't hear a difference in BLIND AUDIO TESTING, don't buy it ...

"I am unsure why "fat power cords & $$ interconnects" detract from my original inquiry..?"

It didn't detract I just listed Upgrades that work. Fancy wires?? There is no real evidence that any of this bling makes a true sonic improvement. I work in the aerospace industry and have been doing so for about 30 years now. During all that time not once has "better wire" been an issue. We have been building using the same wire types from before the Space Shuttle and the Space Station until now building the next generation communication satellites. That also goes for all the cabling that's used on the satellite and all the cabling used to test the assemblies prior to shipment. It's all standard milspec wire nothing special. All the power cords are generic unshielded varieties like you get with your equipment. It's just not an issue.

Rob:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robh3606

"I am unsure why "fat power cords & $$ interconnects" detract from my original inquiry..?"


It didn't detract I just listed Upgrades that work. Fancy wires?? There is no real evidence that any of this bling makes a true sonic improvement. I work in the aerospace industry and have been doing so for about 30 years now. During all that time not once has "better wire" been an issue. We have been building using the same wire types from before the Space Shuttle and the Space Station until now building the next generation communication satellites. That also goes for all the cabling that's used on the satellite and all the cabling used to test the assemblies prior to shipment. It's all standard milspec wire nothing special. All the power cords are generic unshielded varieties like you get with your equipment. It's just not an issue.

Rob:)

---

Thanks. That has been my position as well. Yet it seems that every system at a show has massive wires & cords. Heck, even the instructions for the JBL Everests indicate the advice to use good wiring:

Project Everest DD66000

21

CHAPTER 4Selecting Cable

Speaker wire and interconnecting cables are an important component in anyaudio system. With a system such as the Project Everest, they assume anew level of importance.The Project Everest loudspeakers are internally wired with proprietary, highqualitycopper cables, specially designed for JBL. The same care that was givento the selection of the internal system wiring should be afforded to the selectionand application of the cables that will connect Project Everest loudspeakers toother system components.It is advisable to use high-quality wire and to select the highest grade wireavailable from the manufacturer. Many manufacturers produce audiophilecables worth considering for Project Everest. As with all electronics andassociated components, however, every manufacturer offers products of

varying quality to suit a range of budgets and applications.


Perhaps just for the best speakers?????????