2235 white recone kit

I have just come across something very interesting and was hoping for some thoughts from the more experienced members of this forum. I have some 2225 baskets that I had planned on reconing as 2235. Obviously JBL kits are NLA so was planning on going down the aftermarket route. I've reconed 2 LE15as with aftermarket kits and they seem very good quality to me. From what I've been told there is a supplier in Arizona that has correct reproduced voice coils, so someone somewhere is remaking them to JBL spec. That's all fine, I planned to do that, until, I came across this!

It looks to me to be a very good quality recone kit, as its from Japan and those guys over there seriously mean business when it comes to their JBL. The thing that stood out for me is that the cone is white!! I don't know if this is aquaplas, or the paper pulp is white, or any information really. I've sent a message through the ebay system but no reply as yet. The detailed technical information gives me confidence that it will be up to JBL original spec, or even better knowing the Japanese. Also a bonus is they say the mass ring is already attached, on the other aftermarket kits the mass ring is not included.

I just wanted to ask if anyone could tell me whether this would work for my 1.2T 2225 frames. The ebay listing says 2231/2235, but most of the info seems to be for the 2231. As far as I can tell the only difference between the 2 is the spider?

I think I will get a pair, because they are also quite cheap and I can't see it being worse quality than the other aftermarket kits out there. As far as I can find, the only 15 inch driver that was ever white was the 2230A but I can't find any info about them other than a few pictures. So I am wondering, is there any reason they have produced a white cone other than to complete the look of an old style 4350?

ebay link, but will add pictures if links are not allowed

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-2231-...s/293351737141

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The original woofer of this series was the 2230A. It had a massive coating of white aquaplas to increase the cone mass to the desired level. I don’t remember why, (to reduce distortion or failures) but to improve performance the 2231A was developed. It did not have the heavy aquaplas coating, instead JBL’s designers added a mass ring to the base of the cone. The next change was the introduction of the ferrite magnets to replace the alnico magnets that had become unobtainable in the late ‘70s. This was the 2231H.

I was not personally thrilled with the original H versions that JBL rolled out, and perhaps JBL was not as they then introduced the 2235H. The 2231H and 2235H both had mass rings as the original 2231A had.

That is a bit of the history. Now, the question about buying these white aftermarket kits? I would pass, but I am biased in favor of quality over bling or “it’s not as good, but it was cheap”.


Widget

Back in the 70s at the swap meet my brother picked up an Altec 605 in a utility cabinet and a separate LE15A that was white due to a heavy application of ??? coating. The coating had a "sand" texture to it.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

That is a bit of the history. Now, the question about buying these white aftermarket kits? I would pass, but I am biased in favor of quality over bling or “it’s not as good, but it was cheap”.

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What makes you think that this kit is not good quality? OEM JBL C8R2235 kits are NLA, so what other option do I have? If I could find the technical specs of all the different parts of an OEM cone kit, I could compare to this as they have provided all of their technical specs. But I can't seem to find details on the weight and dimensions of the OEM cone, voice coil, spider etc. Its much better than the other kits out there that just say, '2235 aftermarket kit' and don't provide any technical details whatsoever. The fact that it gives much more information, plus when you factor in the mass ring included its cheaper than the other aftermarket kits...is just a bonus really. Also I'm in the UK so shipping costs are actually cheaper than what it would be to get an aftermarket kit from the states.

From your history it seems like the white aquaplas was replaced with the mass ring, this makes sense. I guess then the only reason they are doing this is to have the look, since they provide a voice coil with a mass ring already in place.

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Originally Posted by toddalin

Back in the 70s at the swap meet my brother picked up an Altec 605 in a utility cabinet and a separate LE15A that was white due to a heavy application of ??? coating. The coating had a "sand" texture to it.

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I would guess someone modified that LE15A to perform subwoofer duty.

I don’t believe JBL ever produced an LE15A with that treatment.


Widget

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Originally Posted by budney

What makes you think that this kit is not good quality?

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I agree that it is a good thing that they’re providing their specs, but the fact that they are offering it in white makes me fear the worst.

I guess you can always buy one and install it, measure the TS parameters, and see how close it is to the real deal.


Widget

I just (Jan 2020) bought four C8R2235’s from JBL. I can check in the morning to see what they have on the shelf if you like. I don’t think these are NLA, yet.

Barry.

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Originally Posted by 1audiohack

I just (Jan 2020) bought four C8R2235’s from JBL. I can check in the morning to see what they have on the shelf if you like. I don’t think these are NLA, yet.

Barry.

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Thanks Barry, the OPs statement they were NLA is the first I've heard about it.

Hi Budney,

The only way to validate if this is an equivalent kit is to buy it and have tested with a woofer tester.

Stick with the facts.

I would show the kit to a Jbl reconer locally if you want further validation. The voice coil construction is important for the same power rating and reliability. However if validation is not overly important to you buy and try. The cone colour could be a pigment or a coating so that needs to be confirmed. But hey someone is making them and it’s worth a look. There are numerous drivers made in Japan so don’t be put off by that. These 2235 style kits are possibly made by an OEM driver manufacturer. The actual components the make up a driver can however be sourced from a number of loudspeaker industry suppliers globally. Things like the surrounds, spiders and other components are in fact made by industry suppliers. Jbl kept to the 2235 design for a number of years and held the QC with a reconer agreement. However there are no religious rights on drivers from any manufacturer. The paper pulp mix and use of specific fibres does account for the way the structure behaves in operation.

Jbl did not make the cones for all their drivers for example. The cones in Aftermarket cone kits may well be from the same cone supplier using the same stamping moulds from the same cone manufacturer. The issue is the trader on EBay who could be a fraudster or reputable.

Provided an aftermarket kit meets the key specs there is no reason not to use it. Starting an ill conceived rumour mill that aftermarket parts are no good based on pure opinion is damaging to the legacy of any driver brand once the original manufacturer stops supporting replacement parts.

The thing is that while Jbl was an American organisation with manufacturing based in the USA a lot of the product for the hifi consumer loudspeaker product was sold into Japan. Some on this website may have trouble with that but that’s the reality and remains so. Most have not been to Japan to see the product. The requests for different products logically came from Harman’s Japan office which l understand was run as a separate company.

I may buy one of these kits myself and check it out.

One could think that it's easy to verify the correct mass by putting the C.U.T. (cone under test ;)) on a scale before installing it into a basket and compare with the data given by JBL. Anyway, the crux is that even JBL's data don't appear to be too reliable. For example, look at the table of woofer TSPs that can be found here or on JBLpro's site. The cone mass reads 105 g for the 2234H and 150 g for the 2235H. But we all know the original bronze mass ring's (that divides the 2235 from the 2234) mass is only 35 g! So, where are the lacking ten grams? Is the 2234H's cone mass value correct or the 2235H's? Or are they both wrong? Who may know for sure?

Best regards!

The approach requires a Jbl cone kit mounted and a full test of all TL parameters, impedance and response, distortion.

The TL test calculates all aspects of the drivers.

On the 2230 that particular coating effected the midrange response so they went another route with the mass ring. As it turns out the 2335 without the mass ring has improved mid band response. This driver can be EQ in a smaller enclosure with the same bass response as a 2335.

Back to this white cone driver l would not right it off until it’s properly evaluated.

A long time ago Jbl had QC problems with the woofers. So a SR driver company locally made an equivalent driver but far more robust with construction. With finite analysis tools these days it’s not difficult to mimic a driver.

One point of interest is the proper cone for the 2234-2235 is and has always been made by Hitachi. It is considerably stiffer and harder paper than most other JBL cones. This paper was sourced for increased midrange performance.

Barry.

Hi Barry,

where from could we source these Hitachi cones, please?

Best regards!

Hello Kay;

If and how one could source these cones from Hitachi I do not know.

What I wanted to say is that a 2234-2235 cone kit with any other paper will not be “the same” even all the rest is correct.

Barry.

You might have to buy in 1000 lots.

I think a detailed discuss on cones is best left for Edgewound.

He can source cones and has the contacts.

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Originally Posted by 1audiohack

I just (Jan 2020) bought four C8R2235’s from JBL. I can check in the morning to see what they have on the shelf if you like. I don’t think these are NLA, yet.

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I could never find any kits here in the UK. Wembley loudspeaker is the biggest reconing company here and they said they could no longer get them, and all websites that sold them listed as sold out. If you could see if they have any that would be very helpful.

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Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie

Provided an aftermarket kit meets the key specs there is no reason not to use it. Starting an ill conceived rumour mill that aftermarket parts are no good based on pure opinion is damaging to the legacy of any driver brand once the original manufacturer stops supporting replacement parts.

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I am thinking along the same lines. I used to believe that it was JBL magic lost to time that produced these drivers. From speaking to a lot of people who have worked with these loud speakers for a long time I've come to the conclusion that it was just about specification, and if someone now can reproduce the parts to the correct spec there's no reason to think they would be worse quality.

Voice coils seem to be the most tricky, as I was told JBL wound all theirs in house, and most other soft parts were from external suppliers. I've been trying to track down the company that winds the coils sold online now, but so far have not managed to make contact. They must have the specifications for JBL coils, otherwise how could they remake them?

Now, how to check if these kits are the correct spec...I cannot find any info on JBLs parts, voice coil dimensions, cone assembly weight, etc etc. I'm sure that info is out there somewhere, and then we could compare it to these kits. I will keep asking until someone with that knowledge will share it. I would have thought there was a JBL technical document somewhere that had all the voice coil information, spider stiffness, cone weight and dimensions etc.

From looking at this sellers website though google translate, it does seem to be that they offer very high quality kits for a whole range of JBL products. They also produce a paragon replica, the Japanese go bonkers for their JBL, I have a feeling it will match the spec. But that feeling is clearly not good enough, I agree that I would have to get a kit and test it fully to see how it performs, so I think that is the path I will take.

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Originally Posted by 1audiohack

One point of interest is the proper cone for the 2234-2235 is and has always been made by Hitachi. It is considerably stiffer and harder paper than most other JBL cones. This paper was sourced for increased midrange performance.

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The fact that this seller is in Japan, makes me think its much more likely to be the correct Hitachi cone. More likely than all the other kits available out there anyway. But until its tested fully we will never know!

Genuine JBL recone kits :

https://reconingspeakers.com/product...35-recone-kit/

Not saying it will be easy to buy these but they do exist.

Here's yer boys in Arizona :

http://www.mwaspeakerparts.com/

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Originally Posted by 1audiohack

Hello Kay;

If and how one could source these cones from Hitachi I do not know.

What I wanted to say is that a 2234-2235 cone kit with any other paper will not be “the same” even all the rest is correct.

Barry.

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Hello Barry,

when I pointed at the numbers, my browser tried to interpret them as an URL. So I assumed that you've erroneously put a wrong URL behind them. Sorry for that!

Best regards!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1audiohack

One point of interest is the proper cone for the 2234-2235 is and has always been made by Hitachi. It is considerably stiffer and harder paper than most other JBL cones. This paper was sourced for increased midrange performance.

Barry.

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Is it possible that also the 2225H got these Hitachi cones?

I have a cone here i remowed from a 2225H with a burnt voice coil,
and the first thing i noticed was that the cone it self was made from a much harder and denser paper than
what was used in the oem 2226H, 2206H, 2245H and aftermarket 2235H cones.