L-110 Grill cloth replcement and recap kits

Greetings!

I have a pair of L-110s I am fixing up for my brother.

Does anyone have any tips for replacing the grill cloth on these? I picked up some generic black grill cloth but wanted to get some experienced input before messing with the flat plastic ring surrounding the grill. Can it be pried off and reused? Should I just replace it with strips of wood painted black or just wrap the new cloth around the whole thing?

Also, is it critical that ALL of the caps be replaced and are there good quality recap kits available for this? If not, any particular caps available from parts express or elsewhere that would be well suited for this without having to mortgage the house to afford?

Thanks for your help!

Oh boy, Delvsie, you are in for real fun, not! :blink: The wood frame inside of the plastic outer frame is glued in. I have taken a couple the grilles apart and it takes a lot of patience, careful prying and I wasn't that successful. You might check out this link:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...0+grille+frame

You might have better luck replacing them with a pair that becomes available on eBay every once in a while.

I also had Roger at Foam Trends ( http://www.foamtrends.com/) make me a pair of L110 frames. The overall dimensions are the same size as the L100 grille. They could be made to accept the L100 foam inserts or some type of cloth inserts such as the JBL cloth inserts manufactured to replace the original L100 foam inserts when it disintegrated.

Good luck.

Larry

Thanks Larry! Wish me luck!

Believe me, Delvsie, they are a real bear to get apart without doing damage to the plastic.
Good luck. Another problem is the wood frame is rather fragile and will come apart at the corners.

Larry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delvsie

Greetings!

I have a pair of L-110s I am fixing up for my brother.

Does anyone have any tips for replacing the grill cloth on these? I picked up some generic black grill cloth but wanted to get some experienced input before messing with the flat plastic ring surrounding the grill. Can it be pried off and reused? Should I just replace it with strips of wood painted black or just wrap the new cloth around the whole thing?

Also, is it critical that ALL of the caps be replaced and are there good quality recap kits available for this? If not, any particular caps available from parts express or elsewhere that would be well suited for this without having to mortgage the house to afford?

Thanks for your help!

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Hi Delvsie

I've just finished restoring my set of L110's & I'am about to start my second set which I picked up for only $70 :D, missing a grill mind you but the attatched thread regarding a L100 Grill is very interesting as I've been looking for a replacement for a while now with no luck.
I have attatched some photos of a completed x-over useing Dayton Caps, Resistors & Binding posts as they have the closest values & are very affordable. You may or may not wish to replace the cable, I did due to corrosion & used ZMC, ;)
Zilch Miracle Cable, may he rest in peace, which is cat5e Data Cable.
You will be amazed at the differance after replaceing those 30yr old electrolitics with todays audio caps.
Good Luck, have fun & keep us posted with photos.



Cheers, wayne
:cheers:

Nice neat job there, Wayne. I did the same thing to a pair of n110 networks using Janzten Z standard series caps. I would like to update a pair of L110(A)s with new caps but I'd like to use Janzten's Superior Z caps. Quite spendy though. I'll probably end up using the Z standards if I do decide to update.

Larry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LRBacon

Nice neat job there, Wayne. I did the same thing to a pair of n110 networks using Janzten Z standard series caps. I would like to update a pair of L110(A)s with new caps but I'd like to use Janzten's Superior Z caps. Quite spendy though. I'll probably end up using the Z standards if I do decide to update.

Larry

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High LRBacon

Thanks for the comment, I would have liked to have used higher grade caps but as you say they can get rather pricy, the differance in useing Dayton's was night & day, would sure like to go higher up the chain for my second set of L110's, just have to save a little more perhaps.

A question for you, can you upgrade a n110 network to a n110A network without replacing the drivers as I understand they are differant :dont-know:, have posed this question before restoring the set above but unfortunately had no response, also do you know the differance between the two drivers & have you ever bypassed the bigger caps with pica caps in a n110 network, if so what differance did you find.

Cheers wayne
:cheers:

The N110AH network is designed to work with the LE111H woofer which has similar characteristics as the LE111A woofer but are not quite the same. I have never tried substituting an LE111A in an N110AH system. I have had used an original L110 cabinet (no L shape short port tube) with an LE111H and an N110AH network installed before I knew there was difference. Nothing says you can't try it to see how it sounds. Here are the links to the tech sheets for the two different woofers:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10666-LE111A


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10663-LE10H-LE10H-1-LE111H

The audio response curve shown on the LE111A tech sheet is difficult to see. The prominent one shown is the resistance to frequency curve.

You could use .01 uF by pass caps in an original N110 network. I thought about using the bypass caps but decided to go with replacing all the original caps with the Jantzen caps. If you used good quality modern capacitors such as the Jantzen or other high quality audio caps (those Dayton caps may qualify) to update the N110 network, you should be able to get by without using bypass caps. I have compared the original L110 to the original L110(A) and found it difficult to hear the actual difference the bypass caps make. I do recall there is a slight difference acoustically (pertaining to the frequency response) between the two but not anyway near the difference between say an L100 and an L110. Hope I helped answer your questions, Wayne.

Larry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LRBacon

The N110AH network is designed to work with the LE111H woofer which has similar characteristics as the LE111A woofer but are not quite the same. I have never tried substituting an LE111A in an N110AH system. I have had used an original L110 cabinet (no L shape short port tube) with an LE111H and an N110AH network installed before I knew there was difference. Nothing says you can't try it to see how it sounds. Here are the links to the tech sheets for the two different woofers:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10666-LE111A


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10663-LE10H-LE10H-1-LE111H

The audio response curve shown on the LE111A tech sheet is difficult to see. The prominent one shown is the resistance to frequency curve.

You could use .01 uF by pass caps in an original N110 network. I thought about using the bypass caps but decided to go with replacing all the original caps with the Jantzen caps. If you used good quality modern capacitors such as the Jantzen or other high quality audio caps (those Dayton caps may qualify) to update the N110 network, you should be able to get by without using bypass caps. I have compared the original L110 to the original L110(A) and found it difficult to hear the actual difference the bypass caps make. I do recall there is a slight difference acoustically (pertaining to the frequency response) between the two but not anyway near the difference between say an L100 and an L110. Hope I helped answer your questions, Wayne.

Larry

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Awesome, thanks heaps for that some great info there, definately going to try some Jantzen caps on my second set & do an A,B comparison with the Daytons. Could be rather reveiling. Thanks again Larry.

Cheers Wayne.
:cheers:

Wayne posted:

I've just finished restoring my set of L110's & I'am about to start my second set which I picked up for only $70 :D, missing a grill mind you but the attatched thread regarding a L100 Grill is very interesting as I've been looking for a replacement for a while now with no luck.





Hi Wayne,

I just happen to have a couple of L110 grilles, one that I have taken apart (logo badge, wood frame and plastic frame no cloth) and another that is still intact with black cloth and logo badge. They are taking up space in my garage. If you would like them both or just one of them I could mail them to you for the price of the postage. PM me if you are interested.

Larry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LRBacon

Hi Wayne,

I just happen to have a couple of L110 grilles, one that I have taken apart (logo badge, wood frame and plastic frame no cloth) and another that is still intact with black cloth and logo badge. They are taking up space in my garage. If you would like them both or just one of them I could mail them to you for the price of the postage. PM me if you are interested.

Larry

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Wow, You are an absolute Legend, your generosity is overwhelming. What a Forum this is.
P.M sent.

Cheers Wayne.
:cheers:

Larry, I see ht you mean now that I have the old cloth off and can see how it's made. It's basically a plastic J-channel isn't it. I am thinking about wrapping the outside of the frame with the new cloth maybe using double-sided tape to hold it on place whie glue on the back edge dries. I won't look original but hopefully I can make a clean job of it.

Wayne, great looking job with the Dayton caps! Are they metalised polypropylene? You don't happen to have the Dayton parts numbers handy? Are they all polar types?

I would love to use film and foil types like Solen or Sprague etc but I'm afraid my brother just isn't worth that expense! ;-)

Also, I have the original prints for the n-110 and the n-110a but haven't seen the ones utilising bypass caps. Are they on the board here somewhere? I should probably look at your links below, eh?

Thank you both for all the help!!

Cheers,
Delvsie :-)

You might try 3M's Super 77 spay adhesive, Delvsie. Check out this post if you haven't done so already:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...h-Installation

The bypass caps are the .068u capacitors that are in parallel to the larger caps in the N110A schematic. I believe the L96 and L112 speaker system networks used .01u caps.

Larry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delvsie

Larry, I see ht you mean now that I have the old cloth off and can see how it's made. It's basically a plastic J-channel isn't it. I am thinking about wrapping the outside of the frame with the new cloth maybe using double-sided tape to hold it on place whie glue on the back edge dries. I won't look original but hopefully I can make a clean job of it.

Wayne, great looking job with the Dayton caps! Are they metalised polypropylene? You don't happen to have the Dayton parts numbers handy? Are they all polar types?

I would love to use film and foil types like Solen or Sprague etc but I'm afraid my brother just isn't worth that expense! ;-)

Also, I have the original prints for the n-110 and the n-110a but haven't seen the ones utilising bypass caps. Are they on the board here somewhere? I should probably look at your links below, eh?

Thank you both for all the help!!

Cheers,
Delvsie :-)

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Hi Delvsie

Thanks for the comment, yes they are Metalised polypropylene, bipolar from Parts Express, link attatched. Dont have the part numbers handy but can get them for you if you like, most of the values are the same or very close, remember the original electrolytics have a much larger tolerance % rating so you can get very close with what's available & still be within spec, the 12.6uf cap, I think thats the correct value, is replaced with 2 caps to acheive the same value, just parellel them. I will be useing some Jantzen caps on my second set & do an A/B comparison. Good luck & keep us posted.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...recision-1.cfm

Cheers wayne.
:cheers: