Looking for suggestions on a Surround sound preamp

A number of analog stereo aficianadoes swear by the Citation 7.0 as having a superior analog section. I've heard it, and it's very nice, but it comes from pre DD and DTS times.

I own the successor model, the Citation 5.0 which has DD 5.1 and DTS, plus Jim Fosgate's 6Axis. The analog section is very nice as well, but the set up on this thing is horrendous and, again, it's behind the times.

I replaced it in my main system with a Fosgate Audionics FAPT-1, both on the strength of Jim Fosgates's surround capabilities and his dedication to terrific analog bypass. However, it's been superceded by the FAPT-1+, which is said to be improved in almost every parameter. It's around $3k.

There are no balanced ins/outs here, but I've never seen the need in a home system. Others of course feel differently and are welcome to their opinions. ;)

My main system/HT is nicknamed "The Two Jims Theater," due to Jim Fosgate and Jim Lansing being the giants of my audio world. Plus, the entanglements of JBL, Fosgate Audionics, Citation, and Harman Kardon are many over the years.

a Rotel RSP 1068 which I find to be a great unit for the price. I focus more on the 2 channel pre for quality audio.:)

I don't know what bucks a Lexion MC 12 processor would run to over there, but I would suggest you have a good listen to it. It's performance in analogue has been raved about by many of the Hi Fi scribes as approaching 2 CH nirvana, so beg borrow or steal one for a play.
I reluctantly agree with Widget but don't let that stop you.

Michael

Yeah I scribe with The Widget on this one but I venture a step further,

Although I love 5.1 movies and DVD music concerts, even the DTS compression isn't on a par with a well recorded PCM (CD) or better again HDCD imho. And then there's vinyl. I would'nt waste 3-5 K on a AV preamp frankly.

Besides why do you need AAA HiFi for dialogue in a movie?

I therefore find the whole audiophile 5.1 thing a bit of a myth.

Ian

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Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie

Yeah I scribe with The Widget on this one but I venture a step further,

Although I love 5.1 movies and DVD music concerts, even the DTS compression isn't on a par with a well recorded PCM (CD) or better again HDCD imho. And then there's vinyl. I would'nt waste 3-5 K on a AV preamp frankly.

Besides why do you need AAA HiFi for dialogue in a movie?

I therefore find the whole audiophile 5.1 thing a bit of a myth.

Ian

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If you consider it a waste, then of course you'd be foolish to do so. As for your question about the need for AAA HiFi, I don't believe there's an answer to that question that will ever satisfy the person who asks it.

You're a smart guy and I'm confident you've thought this issue through, so suffice it to say wonderful people can be on both sides. :yes:

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Originally Posted by rek50

My old Denon 5.1 AVR 2600 doesn't sound too bad for stereo and it still works just fine. I know it's SS but so are my car systems.

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I guess it is a matter of expectations... I don't have any experience with your Denon unit, but I doubt that it is all that different from the top of the line Yamaha, B&K, Parasound, and Pioneer Elite units I have had in my system. (All SS also.) None of these processors or receivers had the transparency or detail that a quality 2 channel pre-amp from the 1980s will give you.

Since my earlier posting on this thread, I have more or less lost interest in multi-channel audio (for music) and am focusing on dedicated 5.1 HT and stereo systems.

Widget

I have been down this road many times. I have always ended up with seperates....in other words a dedicated 2 channel and another Home Theater system. For me I couldn't see spending the limited funds on $5000+ receiver. I have stopped upgrading to the latest Home Theater stuff for now. But if I was to go back to home theater and wanted 1 system I would get a receiver like a Yamaha that was a good used one and run seperate tried and true used amps for each channel. I just got sick of spending $2K + on recievers and/or $3K on new Processor only to see bigger and better model come out. The only reason I would spend that kind of money now was if I felt the value of 2nd or 3rd room usage or if I could employ some new technoligy like WiFi or something like that. Now I gotta tell you my prospective would obviously be different if I won the lottery!

:applaud:

have the luxury of a second room so I must make the best of one room.
I have both an HT and 2 channel setup in the same room.
I use a separate pre/pro (Rotel RSP 1068) for my HT and a separate 2 channel preamp for audio (adcom GFP 750).

The adcom has a processor loop circuit that lets me feed my L/R from my rotel to my adcom. This circuit disables the volume control and gives variable input to the adcom.

This way when it is time to listen to music it is all 2 channel (separate CD player just for 2 channel as well)
I did try an Esoteric DV50s that did sound awesome and I may go that route.
It had a balanced 2 channel out that I ran to my 2 channel system and a multi/digital coax that I ran to the Rotel. This worked well also, but the DV50 is a $6000.00 player.

Ian
I too have come to the conclusion that HDCD is better than any other Digital format. But like you said "then there is vinyl" ahhh:applaud:

"I guess it is a matter of expectations" Indeed, to me happiness is learning NOT to let my expectations over-ride a given situation. I don't expect my "Movie" 5.1 to satisfy my 70's stereo gear "Ears". The 2K$ Denon is nice for movies. I prefer my old gear for stereo.

Hello Audiobeer


"But if I was to go back to home theater and wanted 1 system I would get a receiver like a Yamaha that was a good used one and run seperate tried and true used amps for each channel."

That's what I use. I have a Sony ES and use seperate amps for L/C/R. It also has a 5.1 pass through and a switchable 2 channel pass through so the signals don't automatically get redigitized. Forget about the surround channel upgrade race!! Never ending on that front.

Hello Ian

"Besides why do you need AAA HiFi for dialogue in a movie?"

Well when you go to the cinema what center are they using?? I find that to get really good definition even with movies you need a decent center. Meaning it should be at least comporable to the L/R. Obviously identicle would be the best but that is not that easy for many.

Rob:)

:) I suggest a SONY 9000ES.

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Originally Posted by Alex Lancaster

:) I suggest a SONY 9000ES.

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Highly regarded by its owners and generally overlooked by many who would benefit from owning it. Good choice.

i would say go for

ROTEL 1098
http://europe.rotel.com/products/specs/rsp1098.htm

its very capable of both music and hometheater
and will compliment any setup....looks great!

:nutz:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....roc&1122177670

I have been reading this thread with great interest, because I have been wrestling with these same issues. My 2 channel system is a bit differnt from most because it's basically digital, not analog. I take the digital output from my CD player, and put into the digital input of a BSS loudspeaker controller. This unit provides crossovers, EQ, and delay for my 3-way active speakers. After the BSS does its DSP thing, it converts the signal to analog (24/96) and the signal goes to the appropriate power amp. This set-up does present some difficulties controlling over-all gain, and I haven't found a solution that I'm totally satisfied with yet.


What I'm considering is leaving the signal in the digital domain going through the surround processor and into the BSS unit. Then if I want to add center and surroud speakers, I can do it the same way as my main speakers, that is through additional digital speakler controllers and amplifiers. The problem is there is only one company that makes surround processors with both multi-channel inputs and outputs, and that is Meridian. Talk about expensive though! My only experience with their products is with the 518, which I am using between the CD player and the BSS. It does some resolution enhancement things, and more importantly acts as a digital volume control (and thats another story!). Any thoughts or experiences with the above?