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Zilch
03-15-2006, 09:50 PM
Part I:

1, 1 - The project proposal; N3134 passive vs. M552 active crossover
2, 22 - B380, alternative P-Audio horns, PT Waveguides, and 3” HF drivers
3, 33 - P-Audio vs. JBL 2344(A) horn test results
3, 45 - B380, 2426J on 2370A, 3110A, LE85 and N200B
4, 51 - First look at 5235 crossover
4, 57 - TimG’s P-Audio horn studies
5, 70 - N200B vs. N3134 crossovers in depth
6, 77 - 2344A, a closer look
6, 84 - The OASR “Dr. Seuss” floriform horn studies
7, 92 - Alternative crossover voltage drives
7, 105 - RTA – the essential tool
8, 106 - 52-5130 crossover cards in 5235 complete the biamped system
8, 118 - 5235 HP “Bump” filter modification proposal
9, 125 - 2431H 3” Neodymium drivers – a first look
9, 126 - L200 cabinets – contemplating the unthinkable
10, 150 - Quest for a better RTA
12, 175 - PT-H1010 Progressive Transition waveguides
13, 182 - Implementing the 5235 “Bump” filter mod
13, 186 - 2431H – more details
14, 199 - Time alignment considerations; AM6212/00 crossover curves
14, 205 - Behringer UltraCurve Pro DEQ2496
15, 214 - First tests of 2431H on PT waveguides
15, 222 - PT Waveguide 1” thread-on throat adapters
16, 226 - Dispersion pattern discussion
16, 234 - PT-F1010 waveguides
16, 240 - “Manifesto”
17, 243 - Passive crossover tests and tweaks
19, 273 - Upgrading an L200B
19, 279 - Cabinet tuning and DEQ2496 parametric “Bump” filter
19, 282 - Link to building 4430’s N3134 crossover
20, 292 - Testing N3134 with various driver/horn combinations
20, 295 - NL200t3 crossover into the mix
20, 299 - 2418H-1 as a potential driver
21, 307 - L200t3
21, 310 - Combined AM/3134 crossover parts list
21, 314 - Installing PT-F waveguide in L200
22, 322 - More time alignment discussion
23, 331 - Building the NL200t3 crossover; tests and design analysis
24, 357 - 2431H performance on AM crossover HF
25, 366 - Crossover construction illustrated
25, 369 - L200 foam grilles
26, 376 - PT-F waveguides in other dispersion patterns
26, 382 - DIY crossover comparisons - N3134, NL200t3
27, 394 - 2431H impedance curves; Woofer Tester 2
27, 401 - JBL Factory specs for 2430, 2431, and 2435 3” Neodymium drivers
28, 410 - Biased crossovers
29, 425 - Citation 7.4; testing LE14 variants
30, 438 - Z1 aperiodic trapezoidal cabinet design

Zilch
03-15-2006, 09:51 PM
Part II:

1, 1 - Lowering the AM6212/00 HP filter frequency
1, 5 - Z1 cabinet design continued – prototype
1, 15 - Link to horn/driver studies
2, 25 - Citation 7.4 – listening impressions
3, 31 - Crossover tuning CLIO study
3, 34 - Link to Test Ride thread – listener impressions
3, 39 - PT Waveguide dispersion pattern discussion
3, 45 - Z1 cabinet rendering, link to Z2
4, 54 - 2346 Everest controlled directivity horns
4, 59 - 2430H testing
5, 62 - PT-H95 waveguide
5, 66 - 2332 horn discussion
5, 72 - Crossover modeling in Xover 3 Pro
6, 79 - 2332 horn testing
6, 90 - SRX horn testing
7, 97 - Comparing small format 90° x 50° horns/waveguides
7, 101 - 2435 HPL discussion
8, 108 - Phase plugs and HF response
8, 115 - 2435 HPL testing w/PT-F waveguide
8, 118 - Jackgiff’s L200’s
9, 122 - H3100 horns and throats
9, 129 - 3110A crossover topology
10, 137 - H3100 & Citation 7.4 “Mini-Everest”
10, 141 - Biased NL200t3 crossover schematic and parts list
11, 151 - LE14 discussion
11, 158 - An Altec application of 2435 HPL, 2352 horn
11, 165 - Biased NL200t3 tests with 4430 components
12, 170 - NL200t3-16 16-Ohm HF version crossover
12, 177 - 16-Ohm driver studies – LE85 and 2425J
13, 184 - 4507 4647(A) Utility cabinets
13, 190 - Testing with 2420 drivers, NL200t3-16
13, 192 - Discussion of NL200t3 topology
14, 201 - Link to S99 “Hotrod” implementation
14, 202 - 2352 horns and brackets
14, 209 - Link to 4430 design info
14, 210 - Link to David Smith’s account of 4430 development
15, 212 - Two-way versus three-way
16, 226 - 275nd diaphragms
16, 231 - Everest and H3100 horns with N3100 crossover
16, 232 - 2435 HPL on 2352 horns testing
16, 235 - 2342 (4425) horns, 7 drivers, NL200t3 crossovers
16, 237 - N3100 crossover topology
18, 261 - Radian diaphragms
19, 274 - N3100 Network impedance correction
19, 281 - Test and measurement: CLIO, RTA, WT2
20, 295 - D8R2421 Diaphragm in LE85
20, 300 - Mega System – 2235H in 2507 with 2435 HPL on 2352
21, 303 - Revising N3100 compensation
22, 323 - Aluminum diaphragm fatigue
22, 327 - 2406, 2407 UHF drivers and using them MF/HF
24, 347 - 2407H Driver balancing
24, 351 - JBL 2407H factory specs
24, 352 - JBL 2023H factory specs
25, 369 - L55 as a platform L200t3
25, 372 - Cabinet damping
26, 382 - L55 and 2407, OASR horn. AutoEQ as design tool
27, 398 - Using standard CD compensation with 2407H driver
27, 400 - Horn damping
28, 414 - L55 “Mini-Everest”
28, 417 - Family snapshot – 10 systems
28, 420 - The formula

Zilch
03-15-2006, 09:53 PM
It seemed simple enough: assemble quasi-4430’s from available components, and maybe package them in empty L200 cabinets on hand here. Learn by doing….

It turned into the year-long odyssey of discovery exploring many aspects of two-way system design including spec interpretation, box modeling, measurement and testing, crossover design and construction, filter simulation, driver and horn selection. – a broad array of disciplines involved in assembling speaker systems.

In the process, a “formula” emerges for building systems inspired by 4430 design using specific classes of components, both vintage and new, suited to the purpose.

I doubt I’ll ever be done with this project…. :thmbsup:



Footnote: The original threads are now closed to new posts; it had to end sometime.

HOWEVER, this one is open for anyone wanting to post links to related projects, insights, and, uhmm, “Addenda.” :D


Zilch - 3/15/06

Zilch
03-15-2006, 09:53 PM
Tech Note - "Improvements in Monitor Loudspeaker Systems": http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7852

Tech Note - "The Evolution of JBL's Large Format Monitor Loudspeaker": http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/tn_v3n01.pdf

David Smith Recalls: http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/4430-35.htm

1981 Brochure: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1981-4430-35.htm

1984 Brochure: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1984-4430-35.htm

1995 Brochure: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/443035.pdf

4430 Technical Manual: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4430LR.pdf

4435 Technical Manual: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4435LR.pdf

L200t3 Technical Manual: http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L200t3%20ts.pdf

Guido
03-16-2006, 04:24 AM
Now this is a real help!

Thank's Zilch!

Alex Lancaster
03-16-2006, 08:23 AM
:) Which combination dd You like best?, how does it compare to original 4430´s?

Zilch
03-16-2006, 11:37 AM
:) Which combination dd You like best?, how does it compare to original 4430´s?Hi, Alex!

Two posts down from here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92383#post92383

B&KMan
05-03-2006, 02:51 PM
Well, very hard job here, just 2 cheaps words to explain my great thanks for your gift of the big amount of critical informations/experiences into this thread.

You have put a big amounts of investments of times, parts, and experiences. Yours synthesis results expose a high degree of generousity without any big head syndrome.


:cheers:

long life to Zilch

:applaud: :applaud: and :applaud: again.

Hamilton
05-03-2006, 03:49 PM
Yep, I owe my great sounding HT to Zip's constant help, he never wavered even when I was having trouble first grasping this stuff.

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Zilch
04-14-2007, 07:31 PM
.

Robh3606
04-14-2007, 07:52 PM
Unobtanium.

Rob:blink:

Zilch
04-14-2007, 08:11 PM
Nope, Sonoglas, I think. ;)

There's design evolution went on in the biradials. In detail, these are different.... :yes:

Robh3606
04-14-2007, 08:35 PM
There's design evolution went on in the biradials. In detail, these are different.... :yes:

How?? They still have a very clear diffraction slot. You got some better pictures lookin down the throat. Looks like a 9800 horn but smaller.

Rob:)

Zilch
04-14-2007, 09:06 PM
These are two-piece. The separate throat is formed with greater precision. In the horn, there's no distinct diffraction "shelf" as in H9800. They seem to embody more detailed analysis and understanding of whatever the variables are.

[They also have lips.... :p ]

Robh3606
04-14-2007, 09:19 PM
So what looks like a slot/shelf is a shadow?? They are 2 piece like the original 2344's?? The throats were molded seperately on them as well. Sounds like they use the curves more like the PT's. So they have "bumps" pinching off the throat with a smooth continuous surface?? No hard transitions.

Rob:)

Zilch
04-14-2007, 09:33 PM
I'll get the more detailed pics you'd like to see in the daylight, Rob. There's still a slot, but it seems more rounded like PTs, yes, and the throat transition area is more precisely contoured.

Pro and consumer are pursuing different paths, apparently with different objectives, but each with ever more sophistication. Both these and the PTs were designed for use with essentially the same drivers.

Of note: The latest PT-F95HF doesn't work worth a whit with 243x; it seems to have been optimized for 2452H-SL. I'll demonstrate that here in the next week or so....

Robh3606
04-14-2007, 09:38 PM
:useless:

Thanks!!!

Rob:)

Zilch
04-15-2007, 06:34 PM
It's an engineered "constriction," not a slot.

[Not your father's Buick anymore. :no: ]

Per request:

grumpy
04-16-2007, 09:45 AM
To the casual observer (me), the throat adapter portion appears to be a foreshortened
version of the Everest II throat, where the "flat-ish" portion seems to be extended in the
E2 throat to reach the "lips", as opposed to the horn pictured where this change in
vertical opening rate seems to part of the horn itself (at least that's how it appears
to me in the photos... perhaps that's what RobH meant?).

My interest in this is to develop a vertical profile for a DIY E2 horn for my own personal
use/pleasure, understanding that it's not simply a radial sweep, especially in the throat
area. The horizontal profile appears necessarily less complicated :) -grumpy

Robh3606
04-16-2007, 10:25 AM
Hello Grumpy

This is what I was talking about. You can see how the opening is smaller than the compression driver throat. If you look at the 2 piece throat of the original 2234 it looks remarkably similar. What has changed is what's on the there side. The original bi-radials had an issue with the diffration slot. The abrupt changes would cause problems. With the newer horns these transitions are all rounded and much smoother. You get the directivity up high where you need it without the diffraction effects from a hard transition. Take a look at the attached picture of the 2344 throat, 4348 Throat, 4348 horn, 2344, PTH1010

Rob:)

grumpy
04-16-2007, 10:38 AM
Thanks Rob :) I do have examples of all of these to review, minus the 4348 or 4338 or
Everest II horn. I was referring to the area I've circled in red, where a mild, yet distinct
change in slope seems to be evident, preceeded by a "flatter" region. This seemed to
be the case for the H9800 also (something between the 2344 and PT extremes).

Well, I should plug along and report back. John W seems to have done his homework
an gotten nice results (visually, as well).

-grumpy

Zilch
04-16-2007, 11:03 AM
I was referring to the area I've circled in red, where a mild, yet distinct change in slope seems to be evident, preceeded by a "flatter" region. This seemed to be the case for the H9800 also (something between the 2344 and PT extremes).H9800 has a distinct "edge" there, defined by a line, as transition between the flat "slot" and the curved "horn" portions.

That's now a smooth "progressive" transition.

H9800, below....

grumpy
04-16-2007, 11:26 AM
Thanks Zilch and Rob... appreciate your humoring my need for further description.
Pictures are OK, up close and personal always wins :D

Zilch
05-22-2007, 07:23 PM
First shot with 2251J differential drive cone midrange.

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/4348%20ts.pdf

Almost a two-way.

[Workin' on it.... ;) ]

Robh3606
05-22-2007, 07:49 PM
Why are we adding to this?? We really should have closed it as it's an index. Why don't you start a new thread.

Rob:)

Zilch
05-22-2007, 09:15 PM
Why are we adding to this?? We really should have closed it as it's an index. Why don't you start a new thread.

Rob:)

Footnote: The original threads are now closed to new posts; it had to end sometime.

HOWEVER, this one is open for anyone wanting to post links to related projects, insights, and, uhmm, “Addenda.” :D


Zilch - 3/15/06Addendum.

1.5" H4348 horn with a different woofer. Same project.

That's how I organize it.

What it's going to become will likely warrant a new thread, yes.

I'll likely put documentation of PT-F95HF here.

2381 is buried elsewhere: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=145315&#post145315

H9800 is scattered in several threads; I haven't approached it in an organized fashion yet.

H4338, we'll see what develops.... ;)

Robh3606
05-23-2007, 10:26 AM
Thread to be split

Rob:)