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Lutz
03-10-2006, 05:55 AM
I just heard from a vendor that JBL discontinued the 2404. Can someone confirm this is true??

Maron Horonzakz
03-10-2006, 07:40 AM
Maybe they will replace it with a 045be with baby cheeks. But then again maybe they are dropping all tweeters because us old timers cant hear mutch above 10K;)

4313B
03-20-2006, 04:08 PM
But then again maybe they are dropping all tweeters because us old timers cant hear mutch above 10K:applaud:

I just heard from a vendor that JBL discontinued the 2404. Can someone confirm this is true??Yeah, I finally got around to it...


The 2402H has a last build date in June of this year and 150 will be built. 125 are already spoken for.

The 2404H is apparently a thing of the past as there appears to be no plans for a final production run.

The 2405H is also a thing of the past. There are 43 left in stock from the final production run last year.

BTW - According to JBL the place with the largest selection of vintage JBL repair parts is Scott Fitlin's favorite place - Consolidated Audio (http://www.consolidatedaudio.net/)

Maron Horonzakz
03-21-2006, 06:18 AM
Whats JBL doing? Commiting suicide?

Robh3606
03-21-2006, 09:09 AM
Whats JBL doing? Commiting suicide?


I doubt that. Either they don't see a need or have the demand to continue production. With all the used drivers about and diaphrams available I wonder just how many new drivers they actually sell??? They are not used in any of the newer systems and seem to support only the vintage products for replacements. The 075/2402 goes back to the 1956 catalog. A 50 year run! Not to shabby.

Rob:)

scott fitlin
03-21-2006, 09:36 AM
I doubt that. Either they don't see a need or have the demand to continue production. With all the used drivers about and diaphrams available I wonder just how many new drivers they actually sell??? They are not used in any of the newer systems and seem to support only the vintage products for replacements. The 075/2402 goes back to the 1956 catalog. A 50 year run! Not to shabby.

Rob:)True, with the advent of the Line Array, the " tweeter " has become obsolete. But, and people will learn this, sometimes, for certain applications, NOTHING works as well as a ring radiator!

As for the 2402 being 50yr old technology, it works, and is or was the very best of its kind, and still to this day!

If you ask my opinion, I have heard systems, including Vertec, with horns that go all the way up, but, without tweeters, it isnt the sound I am looking for.

As has been the case with many products from a different era, that the JBL tweeters, particularly the 2402 and 2405, still hold their own and outdo most other brands similar products, including the original manufacturers JBL products of current, is a testament to the solid engineering and brilliant minds that built these things.

:)

4313B
03-21-2006, 09:40 AM
As has been the case with many products from a different era, that the JBL tweeters, particularly the 2402 and 2405, still hold their own and outdo most other brands similar products, including the original manufacturers JBL products of current, is a testament to the solid engineering and brilliant minds that built these things.Yep, there's a ton of them out in the field and they are usually serviceable. Short of people tossing them in the trash there should be enough for those who require them.

JBLnsince1959
03-21-2006, 10:00 AM
First it's the E-series and now these are discontinued.....somehow feels like somethings missing.......:(

any reasons why after 50 years these are no longer needed new??

4313B
03-21-2006, 10:10 AM
First it's the E-series and now these are discontinued.....somehow feels like somethings missing.......:(

any reasons why after 50 years these are no longer needed new??I thought we covered that. If they were flying off the shelves JBL would make them. They aren't going to stop making something that pays the bills.

Don Mascali
03-21-2006, 10:22 AM
"If they were flying off the shelves JBL would make them."

by Giskard.


Well damn, I've been doing my part to buy them all.:D

4313B
03-21-2006, 10:26 AM
Ok! Geez! I'll ask why at some point. :p
Not that I really care mind you; But rather because you all seem to care so much. :D

JBLnsince1959
03-21-2006, 10:46 AM
I thought we covered that. If they were flying off the shelves JBL would make them. They aren't going to stop making something that pays the bills.

yeah..I know, I know...It's just sad to see them stop making them....they were around for so long ......:o:


BUT there's also the new stuff ....:bouncy:

JBLnsince1959
03-21-2006, 10:49 AM
Ok! Geez! I'll ask why at some point. :p
Not that I really care mind you; But rather because you all seem to care so much. :D

mostly nostalgia for me...I remember being 9 and reading all about the D-series and stuff... well it's the full end of an era...

..enough of this emotional stuff.....

4313B
03-21-2006, 10:49 AM
I hear ya!

edgewound
03-21-2006, 11:12 AM
mostly nostalgia for me...I remember being 9 and reading all about the D-series and stuff... well it's the full end of an era...

..enough of this emotional stuff.....

I hear ya too. We love what we know and hate to see it fade away.

With JBL's formidable R&D and new products, the foreign manufacturers will have a whole new crop of top line transducers to reverse engineer and try to copy at lower prices...and quality/durability. When they get it close to right, hopefully more new, innovative stuff arrives.

scott fitlin
03-21-2006, 11:31 AM
I hear ya too. We love what we know and hate to see it fade away.

With JBL's formidable R&D and new products, the foreign manufacturers will have a whole new crop of top line transducers to reverse engineer and try to copy at lower prices...and quality/durability. When they get it close to right, hopefully more new, innovative stuff arrives.But the "other" manufacturers NEVER will get it to sound like a REAL JBL!

Many slot and bullet copies around, being made now, and NONE sound like the JBL tweets!

I am sad to see them go, they are a classic sound. And it still holds its own against the best made today, and most times, still better! But, as with everything, things change.

Guess my place is not too many years from being an actual working museum! I have things in operation, made before, way before many of my customers were even born!

edgewound
03-21-2006, 11:38 AM
But the "other" manufacturers NEVER will get it to sound like a REAL JBL!

Many slot and bullet copies around, being made now, and NONE sound like the JBL tweets!

I understand your statement fully, Scott...but nonetheless...the market for copies, unfortunately, seems to be greater than for genuine. Mainly because the copies end up being "good enough" for most clueless sellers and users....and cost alot less. That's just a grim fact of the marketplace regarding highly engineered precision products. Kinda like Rolex watches.

But....I fully agree with you.:)

scott fitlin
03-21-2006, 11:43 AM
Your really right Edgewound. The market is price driven!

OTOH, I, myself, would like to try out the 045Be, in place of the 2404,s on my stacks, and see how they are! If I like em, I CAN buy then! IF JBL will SELL them!

4313B
03-21-2006, 11:56 AM
Mainly because the copies end up being "good enough" for most clueless sellers and users....and cost alot less. That's just a grim fact of the marketplace regarding highly engineered precision products.There is only so much disposable income. We've seen it on this board. The cheap substitutes. The balking at recones and the interest in refoams even though we know those spiders are toast. The talk of aftermarket parts. The vanishing act the American middle class is engaged in isn't helping matters either. It's very real, regardless of the malarkey your president would love to feed you. Remember, his future is secure for generations to come so the world looks rosy indeed. Yours is not.

Anyway... :rotfl:

4313B
03-21-2006, 11:57 AM
OTOH, I, myself, would like to try out the 045Be, in place of the 2404,s on my stacks, and see how they are!You'd kill them. They don't have the output.

Zilch
03-21-2006, 12:19 PM
I am sad to see them go, they are a classic sound. And it still holds its own against the best made today, and most times, still better! But, as with everything, things change.Did you try the 2407H (or similar re-entrant) on the $10 horns yet?

4313B
03-21-2006, 12:33 PM
Did you try the 2407H (or similar re-entrant) on the $10 horns yet?What!? You gave him homework and he didn't do it!?

scott fitlin
03-21-2006, 01:03 PM
What!? You gave him homework and he didn't do it!?Oh NOO! Zilchy was supposed to give us a report on the 2407,s and its sound. I never had them in my possesion!


BTW, my stacks use the 2404, and they are 5db less efficient than the bullets, all they do, is take over where the horn rolls off at 7K, but they dont play very loudly. Its the super tweeters in clusters of 4, totaling 16 down the center middle of the room, thats the HO tweets!

The stacks take a tweeter that has a nice extended, airy sound, they dont have to have as much output as the bullets.

Zilch
03-21-2006, 01:44 PM
What!? You gave him homework and he didn't do it!?Naw, Scott was gonna go hear them at some dealer there. :)


Oh NOO! Zilchy was supposed to give us a report on the 2407,s and its sound. I never had them in my possesion!I BELIEVE I did that, but don't ask me to find it.:p

Follow the yellow wires here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=13604&d=1142028169

Bottom line: Smoother sounding than the metal-diaphragm UHF drivers, these re-entrant mylars play out to 30 kHz, if that matters. Pick your dispersion pattern by the waveguide you mount 'em on; easy EQ with standard CD compensation.

Minimum recommended Xover frequency 1.8 kHz, though I've used 'em for (and reported here) small two-ways going down to 1.2 KHz with 18 and 24 dB/octave slopes. Resurrect certain LE20(-1) and LE175 systems with them that way, perhaps, though there's other options using the same $10 waveguide, as well.

Three way, as in pic above, I'm crossed a 7 kHz. They'll work in cheap-to-build center UHF arrays for dance, too:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cspels/CBT4%205-5-03.pdf

There's also a new CBT3 for use on stacks or wall mounting to match. "Check back for spec sheet," it says....

scott fitlin
03-21-2006, 02:28 PM
Naw, Scott was gonna go hear them at some dealer there. :)


Three way, as in pic above, I'm crossed a 7 kHz. They'll work in cheap-to-build center UHF arrays for dance, too:

No one has em raw frame components. Couldnt get em without actually ordering them, and buying them. And, I was in the middle of winter with 36 bumper cars taken completely apart, and servicing was priority. Maybe now, as time opens up, I may look further into these!


Im crossed over@7K, I have my bullets sounding so nice, I would really have to hear them, and then again in MY room for at least a week, before I could really make any kind of educated decision as to what I think of them!

Zilch
03-21-2006, 02:52 PM
No one has em raw frame components. Couldnt get em without actually ordering them, and buying them.You can build up an array of four to try for about the list price of a single bullet.

PM me for details.... :thmbsup:

Maron Horonzakz
03-21-2006, 02:53 PM
well i guess all thats left is T.A.D......ET-703 , TD-2001 , TD-2002. The TAD ET-703 will fill the bill for everybody..Dont complane about the price. Its cheaper than a tank of scotch.:barf:

4313B
03-21-2006, 03:21 PM
well i guess all thats left is T.A.DFor what!? What's your application!? All I hear is moaning about some old ring radiators the entire industry no longer gives a rat's ass about. The 045's blow the ring radiators to hell and back for anything but SR and Zilch has already posted a solution there. I wouldn't be surprised if there might be others as well. I guess I'm not getting what the problem is. If you need a ring radiator pick one up and stick a new diaphragm in it.

louped garouv
03-21-2006, 03:50 PM
All I hear is moaning about some old ring radiators the entire industry no longer gives a rat's ass about.

agreed about just buying old ones and getting new diaphragms,

but there are installers using them to this day in large installations.... guess they needed to sell more jobs to keep them around....

scott fitlin
03-21-2006, 04:28 PM
Believe me, there are solutions if you wish to pursue them.

edgewound
03-21-2006, 05:01 PM
2406 and 2407 are both a type of ring radiator

4313B
03-21-2006, 05:11 PM
Yes they sure are. Where's that 2407 EDS I posted for Zilch. I don't feel like digging it out right now to look it over again.

Zilch
03-21-2006, 05:25 PM
Annular ring diaphragm re-entrant compression drivers:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83669#post83669

Easy to find stuff in Q&D Contents, now.... :p

4313B
03-22-2006, 05:27 PM
Use the 2407H

usekgb
03-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Just so everyone knows, the 2404H-1 is still available from your local authorized JBL pro cervice centers. This is just a 2404H without a sticker on the back. Get them while you can.

Cheers,
Zach

johnaec
03-23-2006, 01:19 PM
Just so everyone knows, the 2404H-1 is still available from your local authorized JBL pro cervice centers. This is just a 2404H without a sticker on the back. Get them while you can.

Cheers,
ZachDoesn't the 2404H-1 come stock with the heavier 2402 diaphragm, compared to the 2405 dia on the regular 2404?

John

spankey
06-12-2006, 04:18 PM
I have a pair of Cabaret 4628's and a broken horn. all I can find is the driver/horn combination 2404. All I need is the plastic horn. Anyone know the number for the horn only?????? So I can try and find one on Ebay.
Spankey

Zilch
06-12-2006, 07:28 PM
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Discrete%20Sales%20Models/2404H.pdf

paragon
06-15-2006, 12:09 PM
Very sad, might have been ?

Tom Loizeaux
06-15-2006, 12:57 PM
The 2402 may have passed its day (50 years, I should say) and it's served us well!
The 2405, however, is still THE UHF driver in my opinion! I wonder if that little horn and driver in the K2 9800 can keep up with the 2405 slot.
Maybe I'm biased, but the slots in my 4320s. 4333s, and 4343s sound stellar!
Let's hope JBL comes up with a replacement that proves to be significantly better then these classic UHF drivers.

Tom

Mr. Widget
06-15-2006, 01:26 PM
I wonder if that little horn and driver in the K2 9800 can keep up with the 2405 slot.I have had the opportunity to use both. The 045Be sounds much finer than the 2405. It has a delicacy and air that the 2405 can not match, but the 2405 is significantly more powerful and will blow away the little bat slayer in an SPL war. I heard either the 2406 or 2407 at Zilch's place and it did come close to the sound of the bat slayer either.


Widget

scott fitlin
06-15-2006, 01:57 PM
Great as the 045Be might be, it doesnt have the SPL, or the durability to replace any of the discontinued JBL tweeters for some applications. Now the 2407, well, it has the SPL, durability and power handling, yet, for some strange reason, no one seems to be embracing this new device.

For certain specific applications, IMHO, nothing really beats the classic time proven designs JBL had. Yeah, they have cleaned up the drivers, increased power handling, etc, and yet................?

Zilch
06-15-2006, 02:41 PM
Now the 2407, well, it has the SPL, durability and power handling, yet, for some strange reason, no one seems to be embracing this new device?Zilch embraces it, and "similar," and it looks like TimG's building with it, now.

Didya get a chance to try it, Scott? You can assemble the requisite array quite inexpensively....

Mr. Widget
06-15-2006, 02:48 PM
Like Scott said, no one...:duck:

I suppose time will tell if they become widely accepted. I won't be buying any, but a clean pair of 075s for a pair of Bel-Aires might be on the horizon.;)

...and Scott, there are two uses here, studio monitor/domestic Hi-Fi and PA. You are right that the new crop of JBL tweeters like the 045Be are not intended for PA use.


Widget

Zilch
06-15-2006, 02:58 PM
Like Scott said, no one...:duck:




***Zilch konks Widget with a 2404H motor***







[And Widget now lacks but one to complete his 076s.... :p ]

scott fitlin
06-15-2006, 05:59 PM
Like Scott said, no one...:duck:

I suppose time will tell if they become widely accepted. I won't be buying any, but a clean pair of 075s for a pair of Bel-Aires might be on the horizon.;)

...and Scott, there are two uses here, studio monitor/domestic Hi-Fi and PA. You are right that the new crop of JBL tweeters like the 045Be are not intended for PA use.


WidgetYes, PA, but also, dance club sound still uses tweeters and multiple arrays of tweeters. Everyone doing dance sound systems seems to be leaning towards the Beymas, and a Fane tweeter, also. They arent favoring the JBL 2407. I went to hear some 2407,s in NYC, but when I got to the store they said they didnt have a chance to set them up. Right now, Im not buying stuff I dont need, so I have not experimented with them. Besides, my highs arent an area I am complaining about, so.........

jbl_man_uk
06-18-2006, 02:02 PM
In the Uk there are loads of cheap Chinese imports available from the like of P-Audio etc,even the 2226 bass driver has been cloned by them,and sells for under half the price of the real thing...most large PA manufactures here are switching to the cheaper far east alternatives,so im not surprised production of 2402/2405 will stop....at 600 a pair new,they are simply to expensive....the same applies to the 2446 2" driver,who is going to pay 650 for one of these,when the p-audio or B&C alternative sounds just as good at 100 or less?
As for the 2404 not being made,its no great loss,virtually everyone i have seen has a broken or split horn flare,or cracked across the mounting holes,the plastic composite horn simply isnt up to job...it might be fine perched on someones hi-fi cabinet,but isnt robust enough for pro-audio use.

m8o
12-29-2006, 10:04 PM
Use the 2407H I searched for this thread to find out about the demise of the 2404H.

Have any of you tried to get info on that [2407H] or the 045Be I keep reading about here, on the JBL Pro website? Nothing comes up for either! I know absolutely 0 about either. I'd like to. I have some idea of the form factor of the 2407 but no idea about the 045Be. But JBL is mum on it. ...so I'll buy some used 2405's instead I guess... ;)

Robh3606
12-29-2006, 10:48 PM
The 2404H-1 is still on the current JBL driver list. That said it has a 2402 diaphram so you won't get the same HF extension as a 2404 or a 2405 both of which use the thinner 2405 diaphram.

Rob:)

JBL Dog
12-29-2006, 10:53 PM
I searched for this thread to find out about the demise of the 2404H.

Have any of you tried to get info on that [2407H] or the 045Be I keep reading about here, on the JBL Pro website? Nothing comes up for either! I know absolutely 0 about either. I'd like to. I have some idea of the form factor of the 2407 but no idea about the 045Be. But JBL is mum on it. ...so I'll buy some used 2405's instead I guess... ;)


There is a single 2404H-1 in the tent priced at $144 plus shipping:

http://www.jblpro.com/commerce/tent_sale/catalog/index.php

Oldmics
12-30-2006, 04:21 PM
"There is a single 2404H-1 in the tent priced at $144 plus shipping"

Now you know where that already went ;)

Oldmics-Still rustling tent flaps