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Regis
02-27-2006, 02:32 PM
I recieved my Perreaux amp on Saturday and had everything hooked up, but just wasn't able to listen to them until lunchtime today. The amp is a Perreaux 200P and this model is still in production with an MSRP of $3,600. Not astronomical audio, but pretty darn good, especially from the original owner for $850 with all the manuals, original packaging and in mint condition. This 2004 amplifier replaces the 1978 Sansui G-22000, that had me looking for better sound.

The Sansui is beatiful and at 220 wpc it is loud. But something was missing and I was getting to the point where I wanted more. There's gotta be better and technology does move forward and with helpful advice from all of you on this forum, I started looking around. I found the Perreaux through an audio shop back east and they were selling it for a valued customer. After talking with him a couple of times, he was good enough to ship the amp before the check cleared. Great people! Today, I took off from work and went home to audition this amp. I'm using my trusty Great American Sound Thalia Preamp. While the GAS Thoebe or Theadra is a good deal better, it's going to have to wait, the Thalia is nice enuff for now.

Listening to it today, I was quite impressed. Better mid-range imaging and detail. Nicer highs that had a little more articulation than previous. The bass was very much in control. Not a muffled beat whatsoever, as the superior damping of the Perreaux had it all pulled together tightly. The low range was better as well and I could feel passages on music that weren't quite there before. Bass passages have more extension and went deeper. No problem whatsoever with 'feeling' the music. An hour and a half later, while I was rushing to get out, I left the stereo on at volume and went upstairs to grab some things. I was surprised to feel the floor on the second story getting a solid pounding from underneath as the big L-300's really let it loose. You could almost feel the floor move upwards!
All in all, I'm very happy with my new acquisition and the new amp really makes the L-300's even more impressive than they were before. I'll never sell them, ever. And I'm happy (for now...). Thanks all for your recommendations on the audio freshen-upper thread

JuniorJBL
02-27-2006, 02:38 PM
Oh boy new gear!!:applaud:

Watch out for the upgrade bug:duck:

bigredplane
02-27-2006, 04:26 PM
Oh boy new gear!!:applaud:

Watch out for the upgrade bug:duck:

So true. The upgrade bug is like Aids, you can't get rid of either one once you get them.:banghead:

Mr. Widget
02-27-2006, 04:37 PM
I recieved my Perreaux amp on Saturday...
All in all, I'm very happy with my new acquisition and the new amp really makes the L-300's even more impressive than they were before. I'll never sell them, ever. And I'm happy (for now...). Thanks all for your recommendations on the audio freshen-upper threadCongratulations!


Widget

invstbiker
02-27-2006, 06:16 PM
:useless:

Steve Gonzales
02-27-2006, 06:35 PM
Hey Regis,

Sorry I havn't been in touch lately, GREAT to hear about your new acquisition!. Sounds like a personal audition is in order?. I do appreciate the way you articulate your observations and listening impressions. Oh those sweet 077's, lovely H92/LE85 w/2421's and that KILLER 136A Low end!!. Congrat's, Steve G.

norealtalent
02-27-2006, 07:35 PM
Regis Buddy. I'm soooo sorry for you. You bought a Perreaux? You're screwed for life now. Next time you want an upgrade, you'll have to mortgage the house to get any better!!! Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

scott fitlin
02-27-2006, 08:26 PM
I think Perreaux makes some of the best bottom Ive ever heard!

:D

Regis
02-28-2006, 07:22 AM
Thanks all! Scott, you're spot-on. The bottom end on the amp is unbelievable. After work, I threw on some Rob Zombie and the bass slam was explosive. My roomie came home after I left to visit the dogs at the ex's house and he tried it out. He said that it pretty much blew the previous system out of the water and he swore he could almost feel the concrete floor move.

Yah, Steve, call me. You've got my number and you're more than welcome to visit the 'wall-o-sound'. Finally, Dave bud, I did the research carefully. I looked at a lot of equipment and got a lot of advice before I went with Perreaux. The L-300's sound like they've been unleashed from an unfair restraint. Can hardly wait to get home again!

Titanium Dome
02-28-2006, 07:30 AM
Now...

Ahem...

When is the debut party?

Regis
02-28-2006, 09:44 AM
Now...

Ahem...

When is the debut party?

Bring over a stack of CD's next time you're in the area and I'll happily oblige. (that goes for Steve G. too!) :barf: :barf:

Rolf
02-28-2006, 10:43 AM
with an MSRP of $3,600. Not astronomical audio, but pretty darn good, especially from the original owner for $850 with all the manuals, original packaging and in mint condition.


Very good price.


I'm using my trusty Great American Sound Thalia Preamp. While the GAS Thoebe or Theadra is a good deal better, it's going to have to wait, the Thalia is nice enuff for now.


Do you really like GAS on L300? Hmmm:baby:


I was surprised to feel the floor on the second story getting a solid pounding from underneath as the big L-300's really let it loose. You could almost feel the floor move upwards!
All in all, I'm very happy with my new acquisition and the new amp really makes the L-300's even more impressive than they were before. I'll never sell them, ever. And I'm happy (for now...). Thanks all for your recommendations on the audio freshen-upper thread

That is what you get with Perreaux. Have you heard the750's?

:applaud: Rolf

Regis
02-28-2006, 12:19 PM
Gawd Rolf, I've never heard the Perreaux 750 monoblocks http://www.perreaux.com/product.php?idp=46

In fact, I never heard a Perreaux until it was hooked up to my system. There aren't any dealers in the U.S. as distribution is hit-and-miss. It was pure faith in how they're built and recommendations. Regarding the 750 mono's, it would be hard to believe that anyone would actually want 750 wpc, total 1500 watts both sides! I can see 300 as my upper limit with the L-300's and that'd be probably all they can handle out of an amp of this quality (correct me if I'm wrong here). There is so brute power that I feel like I'm getting nearly physically assaulted by the sound!

The GAS may not be the last word in pre's, but I got it locally for a $130. I may upgrade to either a Perreaux SM-2 Class A or something similiar. The GAS Thalia build quality inside is very good and it was certainly 'boutique' audio in the 80's. James Bongiorno designed this line and he hailed from SAE, then went on to Sumo and is now building amps for Spread Spectrum Technologies. http://www.ampzilla2000.com/. Apparently, he also worked for Harmon Kardon as well and Crown too.
http://www.ampzilla2000.com/James_Bongiorno.html. I'm actually pretty happy with the GAS pre, though I'd like to borrow my buds GAS Thoebe and see how it measures up as there was a noticable difference with the L-150 system in the house.

Rolf
02-28-2006, 01:09 PM
Gawd Rolf, I've never heard the Perreaux 750 mono blocks


My brother has a pair, I have a 350P (at the moment not in use) and two R200I's (used as power amps only) in my setup.

I know about the failure regarding the US distributor, as I saw ads on the net for about a year or two, and then nothing. They will be back. For now the US people who wants them must order them from New Zealand.

It is (I believe) said in the US that: "there is no substitute for cubic inches". Why do one want a V8 when you can go from A to B with a 2 cylinder? The reason is that you never have to use all...you use what is necessary, and the rest is just there to take care of emergency.

IF I really put my 4343B's to the test, I tell you they take all of the power of the 750's. AND...they handle it! So will your L300. (Be careful)

Yes, buy the SM2. I got one for sale. You get it for US$ 500 + shipping. It is a good unit, but I would recommend the newer SM6. Costs a lot more....

Maron Horonzakz
02-28-2006, 01:13 PM
I find the Perraeux SM-3 I now have wins hands down over the GAS Theadra. The Theadra sounded smeared in the midrange (no clarity) The Sm-3 is a bit quieter tham the SM-2 but not by mutch.(phono)

Rolf
02-28-2006, 01:26 PM
I find the Perraeux SM-3 I now have wins hands down over the GAS Theadra. The Theadra sounded smeared in the midrange (no clarity) The Sm-3 is a bit quieter tham the SM-2 but not by mutch.(phono)

I agree, if you are talking about connecting a vinyl player. (I don't use that...see no reason) There is nothing better with the SM3 regarding the other inputs.

Ian Mackenzie
02-28-2006, 01:34 PM
Regis,

When I heard the SM2 I found it irritating when I heard it way back then at a HiFi show....in fact Apt Holman was the favourite at the time

You might want to listen to the Adcom that Bo and Widget use. Its a more current design, has some great features and is very good value for money.

Mr. Widget
02-28-2006, 01:49 PM
I'd call the Adcom GFP 750 inoffensive and polite. It isn't the end all in revealing detail, creating a lot of depth etc., but it is nice and reasonably convenient with it's limited function remote. If you were near by, I'd let you borrow mine. It hasn't been in the system for about a year or so.


Widget

Regis
02-28-2006, 02:01 PM
Thanks for the elucidation, Rolf, Ian and Mr. Widget! I'll keep an eyeball peeled for an SM-3. No way I can afford a SM-6 at this point (but'd sure be nice). As good as the GAS sounds, I can now appreciate the difference just an amp makes. Now you guys got me thinking of another pre! The audio addiction keeps bringing me a little closer to audio nirvana. Thank God I own a pair of L-300's! Regarding the Adcom GFP, yep, they're a bargain for what they do and a remote would sure be nice...:p

PS: Rolf, please have some body armor available for you and your guests if you run your 4343b's thru a pair of 750P's at full-throttle!:D We can apply a teflon coating to the walls as well, so that visitors will be easier to peel off after your listening session.

Rolf
02-28-2006, 02:23 PM
Regis,

When I heard the SM2 I found it a it irritating when I heard it way back then at a HiFi show....in fact Apt Holman was the favourite at the time

You might want to listen to the Adcom that Bo and Widget use. Its a more current design, has some great features and is very good value for money.

Ian, I thought you where more...what can I say ..:screwy:

Ian Mackenzie
02-28-2006, 03:08 PM
Rolf,

Sorry for the typo. I have a crook keyboard and eye balls that need specs.

More what? A paraplay of by gone pre amps.....

On the pre amp front I started out with Nakamichi 610, a nice looking bit of hardware. Then I started building stuff because really good pre's were too $$. I built a Doug Self Advanced Pre amplifier (cc1978)and then a Tilbrook 6010 Ultra fidelity pre amp (cc1985).

A bit like Regis, I felt something was missing...(early 90's ) and I felt Hi End was well beyond me. Then I bought a Phase Linear 3300 Series 11 (not bad) and upgraded it with Burr Brown chips OPA 2134's..sweet but veiled. Got sick of that when I built a JLH power amp (a wonderful amp)and build a Passlabs Bride of Son of Zen Balanced Line stage. That was a quantum leap in sound... 40 ma of bias ..you just can't beat it. Its is a smooth yet a little warm sound and nicely detailed.

I have since modified that design with an active current source which improves single ended input performance, cascoded it which reduces hi frequency distortions due to non linear gate capacitance and added X super symmetry which cancels all common mode distortions. Although subtle, all these modifications have refined the performance in some way but there is something about the simplicity of the original design that I still like. ..its very organic.

The hard part with a preamp is getting it sound detailed and dynamic yet clean all the way up the range. The better class A preamps also put a lot more flesh on the bone meaning they convey the impression of depth, stage width, solid images and powerful transients. I have tried Valve stuff but its all too warm for my taste. http://www.passdiy.com/gallery/bosoz-p1.htm

My next preamp project will be a cascoded Jfet design like the Borbely All Fet line stage. J Fets have alot in common with triodes and sonically have a detailed yet very natural sound as far as gain devices go.

This particular active crossover also uses Jfets, its utterly transparent.
http://www.passdiy.com/gallery/hi-lo-xover-p1.htm

norealtalent
02-28-2006, 03:33 PM
... Dave bud, I did the research carefully. I looked at a lot of equipment and got a lot of advice before I went with Perreaux. The L-300's sound like they've been unleashed from an unfair restraint. Can hardly wait to get home again!


I got lucky when I bought my first Perreaux amp. Did a lot of research and bought it right. Tried a lot of things since then but still runs my bottom end. Got lucky on the SM-6 too. Thought that TAD 150 would be better since Ken upgraded from his Adcom to it. That Adcom must be pretty bad compared to the SM-6 cause the TAD didn't last a week in the rack!:bouncy:

hapy._.face
02-28-2006, 04:45 PM
That Adcom must be pretty bad compared to the SM-6 cause the TAD didn't last a week in the rack!:bouncy:

Well, considering your other components- it was simply a mismatch (IMO). I would have tried the TAD, too- but I believe in the "no preamp" if you can get away with it. I see a Placette Audio component in my immediate future.
I just need a remote volume function and couple of source selections/outs. Why do they make preamps so full of character?

Ian Mackenzie
02-28-2006, 05:43 PM
Happy face,

Generally people need some gain and a low driving impediance to avoid effects from cables and non linear input loads from power amps. Most domestic sources aren't cable of driving much of a load

About yor earlier post its all relative and relative to the rest of your system.

Assuming your SM-6 cost under $6000 no doubt it would be better than the Adcom which is under a grand. Why else would you spend that much but that does not mean the Adcom is a bad preamp. (have you heard it?)

For example if I wheeled in a Passlabs X0.2 (weighs 75 lb) and compared it to the Sm-6 and I heard the same difference twice over the Adcom versus SM-6 I would not be crass enough to post the SM-6 is bad, particularly if that's all you can afford! http://www.passlabs.com/preamps/x0.2.htm

Your SM-6 probaly matches your speakers although from what I can see you change those around a bit.

Frankly its the law of dimishing returns and we all have to pick our mark and not everyone likes changing stuff for the sack of change.

I prefer to build stuff that is almost 9/10 th's as good with help from a guy who makes the very best but for me only about 1/10th the cost. But not everyone can be bothered.

I'll probably never know how good my unit is but if it sounds like nirvana to my ears I'm a happy camper, there's no need to blab about it and I have not had to sell the farm :D

Ian Mackenzie
02-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Regis,

I am pleased your enjoying you updated equipment and your JBLs are doing what you want......that's all that matters in the end.

Thanks for sharing your enjoyment

Ian

Rolf
03-01-2006, 01:53 AM
Hi Ian. First, I KNOW, and you have my greatest respect for your technical know how being able to build the stuff you do. I wish I could do it to, but...I have to buy stuff. What I am good at (at least I think so) is to listen and find out what sounds good and not so good.

The Nakamichi 610 was a good pre at the time. I had it myself together with the power and cassette deck.;)

All your upgrades makes me sure that you improved the sound on the products.:applaud:

I have been thinking about posting a thread about my hi-fi life from the beginning up to now, but it seems like these kind of posts is anoing to a lot of forum members so I have not posted it. This would have to be as an attachment, (Word Doc) as it would be quite a long story.

I wish we could meet some time, not only you and me, but forum members with different skills. If you ever come to Norway, bring your solding iron, and impove my stuff.:)

Rolf
03-01-2006, 02:00 AM
The best Perreaux do is Power Amps.


I got lucky when I bought my first Perreaux amp.

Ian Mackenzie
03-01-2006, 04:32 AM
Hi Ian. First, I KNOW, and you have my greatest respect for your technical know how being able to build the stuff you do. I wish I could do it to, but...I have to buy stuff. What I am good at (at least I think so) is to listen and find out what sounds good and not so good.

The Nakamichi 610 was a good pre at the time. I had it myself together with the power and cassette deck.;)

All your upgrades makes me sure that you improved the sound on the products.:applaud:

I have been thinking about posting a thread about my hi-fi life from the beginning up to now, but it seems like these kind of posts is anoing to a lot of forum members so I have not posted it. This would have to be as an attachment, (Word Doc) as it would be quite a long story.

I wish we could meet some time, not only you and me, but forum members with different skills. If you ever come to Norway, bring your solding iron, and impove my stuff.:)

Rolf,

I would love to come to Norway and make some nice stuff with you so long as we can fit in some Bird Watching and sip on a cleaning Ale:D .

Ian

Ken Pachkowsky
03-01-2006, 08:05 AM
I do believe Cherokee Studios in LA still have several high powered Perreaux's for sale. Call and ask to speak to Bruce Robb. I tried my best and could not roust much intererest in them at all. They had several 8000,9000,6000 series for sale in excellent condition. I was very tempted myself but did not bite. Had several suggest they would not pay 1000+ for 20 year old amps no matter how well built they are. I must admit it did scare me off, but always wondered how they might sound. If you speak to Bruce, say hi for me. They also had a couple of pair's of Augsburger dual 15 3-way Mains in storage. I was going to try and work a deal on them but never did. Being where I am now, I suspect my big Ebay days are over.

Ken

hapy._.face
03-01-2006, 08:25 AM
Obviously, I don't understand everything that a preamp is designed or required to do. I have connected amps directly to high output source components with stellar results in the past, and I assume I can replicate the same with a Placette Audio volume control or basic preamp unit. If my other components are clean enough- I might like it. I currently have two preamps (primare pre30 and an audio research sp9) that I am not married to, and would dump them both for something with a basic remote feature and cleaner circuit. The primare piece is the nicest thing in my system- yet it just doesn't work for me at the moment. It's gonna be audiogone soon. The AR is in use now and (if nothing else) serves as an EXCELLENT phono.





About yor earlier post its all relative and relative to the rest of your system.

I couldn't agree more. :)
I'm a big believer in the value of system synergy, and how a bunch of lackluster components can sound wonderful when carefully put in a system together.



Assuming your SM-6 cost under $6000 no doubt it would be better than the Adcom which is under a grand. Why else would you spend that much but that does not mean the Adcom is a bad preamp. (have you heard it?)

I don't own an SM-6; It belongs to norelatalent. I have heard both the Adcom and the TAD and I thought they were both OK preamps. I didn't get the chance to hear the Adcom '750 in my own system (it was at a retail shop), but from what I can tell- I much prefer the TAD (to my ears). I've yet to hear the SM-6.
I think norealtalent bought the TAD based on the raves and the fact that price does not always reflect performance. I subscribe to the same.




For example if I wheeled in a Passlabs X0.2 (weighs 75 lb) and compared it to the Sm-6 and I heard the same difference twice over the Adcom versus SM-6 I would not be crass enough to post the SM-6 is bad, particularly if that's all you can afford! http://www.passlabs.com/preamps/x0.2.htm


I don't have much brand loyalty when it comes to electronics- but you already KNOW I love all things Nelson Pass! I don't understand the how and why his designs are so good to my ears- only that it all seems to work for me- bless that man! I'll never part with my Threshold amps. I think the older Adcom is decent gear, and would urge anyone to pick it up based on budget.




Your SM-6 probaly matches your speakers although from what I can see you change those around a bit.


(Not my preamp). I think Dave has been running his westlake BBSM's for some time now. I collect speakers- but my mains have been the same for 4 years. I'm ready to change those soon, though.




Frankly its the law of dimishing returns and we all have to pick our mark and not everyone likes changing stuff for the sack of change.


Agreed. I'm not dissing anything.




I prefer to build stuff that is almost 9/10 th's as good with help from a guy who makes the very best but for me only about 1/10th the cost. But not everyone can be bothered.


I envy your skills, Ian.



I'll probably never know how good my unit is but if it sounds like nirvana to my ears I'm a happy camper, there's no need to blab about it and I have not had to sell the farm :D

Again, agreed.
You have a farm? :p

Mr. Widget
03-01-2006, 09:36 AM
I have been thinking about posting a thread about my hi-fi life from the beginning up to now, but it seems like these kind of posts is anoing to a lot of forum members so I have not posted it. This would have to be as an attachment, (Word Doc) as it would be quite a long story.Why not post it. People can read it if they choose or they can choose to move on. I am sure that at least some forum members will enjoy following your journey.


Widget

norealtalent
03-01-2006, 09:39 AM
...afterall, there is no destinaton, only the endless journey. When we're really fortunate, we can share the same paths for a while...:bouncy:

Rolf
03-01-2006, 12:51 PM
Why not post it. People can read it if they choose or they can choose to move on. I am sure that at least some forum members will enjoy following your journey.


Widget

I send you a pm.

Rolf
03-01-2006, 01:00 PM
Rolf,

I would love to come to Norway and make some nice stuff with you so long as we can fit in some Bird Watching and sip on a cleaning Ale:D .

Ian

Sure! As we live on the country side we have plenty of wild life around us.:) Birds from the smallest to the King Eagle live in my area. You can sit on the terasse? and watch a lot of them. Small and large wild animals often visit our back yard. Anyway, the ale (beer?) is very good in Norway, and I provide whatever you need.:D

Ken Pachkowsky
05-17-2006, 08:11 PM
Got lucky on the SM-6 too. Thought that TAD 150 would be better since Ken upgraded from his Adcom to it. That Adcom must be pretty bad compared to the SM-6 cause the TAD didn't last a week in the rack!:bouncy:


Wow, I just got an SM6 Perreaux for my brother. I brought it home to try out. I would definitely keep one of these and sell the Tad. I can understand norealtalents objection to the Tad 150 after just a couple of cd's. I really noticed the difference in upper high end and mid bass. The low bass remained similar. There are other differences as well but these slapped me in the face.

A rip around the toms on a drum kit are stunning "crisp and articulate". Cymbal rides and crashes can only be described as cleaner with less...I hate to say "distortion". Did you hear this as well Dave?

No doubt about it, the Perreaux SM6 is worth the price difference. I will definately keep my eyes open for one of these. My brother paid 1100 for it and 240 bucks in freight and import duties.

Take a bow Dave:D

Ken

Earl K
05-18-2006, 02:02 PM
Hi Ken,

- Thanks for the mini-review and preamp update !
- Always good to hear your subjective opinion on things.

:)

Ken Pachkowsky
05-18-2006, 02:43 PM
Hi Ken,

- Thanks for the mini-review and preamp update !
- Always good to hear your subjective opinion on things.

:)

It is what it is. Dave influenced me to give one a try and I am grateful he did.

Don't get me wrong, the Tad is a fine pre and out performs the Adcom 750 hands down, but the Perreaux is in another league. Keep in mind the Perreaux is 2x the price of the Tad 150 Signature.

I am getting a Boulder 1012 in 3 weeks. I will have it for a one month trial. It will be interesting to see if its worth the price and how it compares to the Perreaux.

Ken