PDA

View Full Version : balanced cable splitter



trekman
02-26-2006, 09:22 PM
Will fabricating another cable split off a balanced XLR cable, to run two balanced input crossovers from a balanced preamp out, cause any problems? Thanks.

Don Mascali
02-27-2006, 03:17 AM
I think DIY or Tech Help would be a better place to ask this question.

I would like to hear about this too. Impedance matching would seem to be the big problem.

pelly3s
02-27-2006, 05:58 AM
you can purchase transformer isolated splits to do the task so you have anothing to worry about. for an average quality one Horizon makes a nice one.

pelly3s
02-27-2006, 05:59 AM
the cable split shouldnt be a problem in the situation you are using it. it is entirely dependant on the crossovers and preamp

Mike Caldwell
02-27-2006, 06:28 AM
Hello
You will have no problem with a single hardwired spilt. The only issue maybe and that is a very very small maybe if by chance the preamp outputs and the crossover inputs were transformer coupled, again that is A very very very small chance.
What model crossovers and pre amp do you have.
Are you splitting the outputs to drive to completely independent systems.

Mike Caldwell

boputnam
02-27-2006, 08:55 AM
I use these all the time, and have all manner of sex-change adaptors to enable various interconnects.

Depending upon what you are interconneting, you might develop a loading (impedance) differential between the legs, but that is not a common result, so forge ahead. If there is a loading difference, it merely results in a gain difference - not big, but it can happen. If the loads are the same, this does not occur, particularly if you are doing the same thing to both L and R.

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/yxl-119.html
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/yxm-121.html

trekman
02-27-2006, 03:04 PM
Hello
...What model crossovers and pre amp do you have.
Are you splitting the outputs to drive to completely independent system.
Mike Caldwell

I am using a Sony ta-e90es preamp to a KT410 eq to a Ashly 4001, and right now I use the RCA outs to another 4001. But I want to go balanced to both 4001's, to reduce the noise floor a little. (the noise problem of going balanced-unbalanced) This is so I can control another pair of woofers, yielding a little more control over my bass response. All in one system, 5 amps in the end. Thanks.

Mike Caldwell
02-27-2006, 04:12 PM
Hello
Nice EQ and crossovers, You'll have no trouble splitting the output of either the pre amp or the EQ. You have your system set up to run 5 way active stereo. What's the rest of the system and what crossover frequencies are you using.


Mike Caldwell

trekman
02-27-2006, 04:51 PM
Thanks for all the answers. The rest of the system is mostly TAD, 1601B and 1602 woofers, 1201H upper bass, 4002 w/tractrix horn, and JBL 2404,guass or yamaha tweeters. For amps, ab systems, crowns, nad, BGW 150 (with balancing transformers). I still need some small balanced amps. Yamaha and Sansui tuners. Thorens table, a low end CD player- seems to sound dapper. I was thinking of getting a Behringer 2496 to play with....

boputnam
02-28-2006, 09:43 AM
I was thinking of getting a Behringer 2496 to play with....What for...?

trekman
02-28-2006, 02:46 PM
What for...?

I thought the spectrum analyzer would be useful in flattening out the response, better than my ear. I always feel like there is a hole somewhere. And my repairman, http://www.audioproz.com/AP.php?Home thought it would sound as good if not better than my Klark. He's not a fan of over priced electronics which seem not to sound any better. (too me included) I would recommend them to anyone in eastern MASS by the way, as far as fixing things right the first time on time.

boputnam
02-28-2006, 03:05 PM
OK. It certainly should be for that.


... my repairman, http://www.audioproz.com/AP.php?Home thought it would sound as good if not better than my Klark. :no: Caveat: I've not used this particular Behringer, but all the other gear of theirs I have trialed/used, has long ago disappeared over the eBay transom (and I was not price sensitive... ;) ).

As a philosphy, I agree with your repairman's stand on expensive gear. Practically, though, I find - repeatedly - there is a material difference (read audible improvement) in higher-priced gear. Good filters and caps, power supplies, etc cost real money. Go through the numerous threads here on crossover (network) construction and the related cost discussions. Good shit costs more. You may not be able to measure the difference; whether you can hear the difference is something else entirely.

I also personally have not been favorably impressed with digital EQ's - certainly not in the audiophile se(a)tting. I do use them for (stage) monitors (for a variety of control and multiple house pre-sets reasons), but cannot get comfortable at all with them even for FOH applications. I trialed a very expensive digital EQ in my home set-up and... :biting:

Anyway, if you do get one, as you snuggle-up to it, do let us know your impressions and experiences!

Mike Caldwell
03-01-2006, 07:30 AM
Hello
Giving the quality of the system you have I would not mess with the Behringer DSP. If you want to try going with a digital unit I would start with nothing less than a DBX 260 give or take about $600. From there on up would be BSS, Ashly Protea, Klark, Lake, Outline, Peavy (yes I said Peavy, they have a unit that is said to be pretty good, about the price of the DBX.
With that said below is a quote for the RAT Sound Message board by the well industry respected owner, designer, engineer of the company in response to a question about crosover phase.

Here is the link to the full post http://ratsound.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=1140501631

Here is the main site link http://www.ratsound.com/

Mike Caldwell


"Unless your EQ is an old White or something old expensive and heavy, you wont see inductors in there. What you should see is an array of capacitor/op amp filters that are smaller where at the 20K end and larger as you move toward the 20 hz end.

I am not that familiar subjective audible benefits, if any, of digitals processors presenting zero phase or linear phase filters and from what I have read, there are other issues like pre-ring that may make them less desirable.

Typically, digital processors are just like the analog counterparts with phase issues and all, plus they offer the added bonus of converting your audio signal to digital and then right back to analog.

Of course, any audio compromises you take from the conversion to digi and back to analog can be quickly justified if you require the added benefits like EQ, delay and versatility that the digi processors offer.

Conversely, if you have a well designed speaker system that does not require drastic EQ or any delay fix issues, my experience is that a quality analog x-over will offer superior sound quality, a lower noise floor and more headroom.

That is not to say that analog x-overs are without other issues but personally try and only flip through digital if it offers a clear and necessary advantage in some form. When I do dive through the digital domain, I do all I can to never do it twice to a primary audio signal. (effects are an exception) "

boputnam
03-01-2006, 08:28 AM
Great referral Link, Mike.
Worth everyone here having a read.

:thmbsup:

Mike Caldwell
03-01-2006, 01:49 PM
Hello
I might add that RAT sound is a great source for just about any pro audio equipment you could think of and top notch customer service.

I ordered some equipment from them at the first of the year and delivery one on piece kept getting pushed back from the supplier the actual manufacture of the equipment. The equipment was for a installation I was working on and it was needed to get it finished out. RAT actually went to a third party source that had one in stock had it overnighted to me and they picked up the additional cost and shipping.

Mike Caldwell

trekman
03-06-2006, 02:57 PM
Everyone seems to down rate Behringer, I guess what I liked was the display and the available microphone for short money. I find the RAT site a little confusing: I thought the reason Ashly went with 24db slopes was to get the phase problem straightened out. I guess for now I will stick to my ears for the analyzer.

Any recommendations on a small, balanced input solid state amp which would be a good match for compression drivers above 500hz? It just doesn't feel right to me to be using a 100+/- watt amp at this task, and there doesn't seem to be many choices out there. Someone mentioned that Bryston 2blp has "a lot of transistor noise", plus they run so hot.

Mike Caldwell
03-06-2006, 03:50 PM
Hello
24db, Linkwitz Riley filter slopes have been standard for many years in pro sound. They offer less frequency overlap between drivers ( less phase problems ) and better power handling for the drivers. This is not to say the gentler slopes have their merits as well as other filer types such as Bessel and Butterworth.
What is your amp budget and I'll throw you some suggestions.
The Crown D75 or a Carver PM300 come to mind and can be found on Ebay and won't break the bank.

Mike Caldwell

trekman
03-06-2006, 05:41 PM
After the price of the TAD drivers, I really should splurge a little on the amps. I always liked Crown, but right now I feel like an amp I didn't already own in 1980. D75's I think don't have turn on/off noise surpression. PM300 I can't find much on, but I think over 100 wpc. Will Class A output up to a few watts make a difference in sound?(crossover notch). I don't want full class A - too hot, unless there is a cooler running model. I think the drivers will mostly see a fraction of a watt. $200 range would be nice, but up to perhaps $700 used if it really improves sound quality, and looks good. Thanks.

Mike Caldwell
03-06-2006, 06:14 PM
Hello
The Carver PM300 was discontinued about 6 or so years ago so used will be the only option there. I used one for high end in a small PA system a while back, I think at 8 ohms it was around 125 watts a channel.
The new QSC PLX1104 is a A-B class amp but 300 watts at 8 ohms the PL218 a little heavy duty version of the PLX and sounds very good on highs, about 325 at 8ohm. They would fall into your price range. I don't know an exact model number but any of the Hafler power amps would be a good choice, I have about a 20 years old DH200 in my home system. I know they had a two space rack model that was about a 100 watts a channel. I would look for a good used Hafler. I know there would be many other choices in the audiophile brands but I'm not that familiar with those.


Mike Caldwell

boputnam
03-07-2006, 10:20 AM
Everyone seems to down rate Behringer...:yes:, particularly for one with your otherwise high quality choices. Behringer would not be on-par with that.


I guess what I liked was the display and the available microphone for short money. There have been quite a few discussions on RTA's, here, and on good reference mics. This gear is not inexpensive, but there are many ways to get configured. Try a SEARCH on "RTA", on "AudioControl" on that winkie thing that Ken Patchalphabet likes so much (cannot recall the brand...), and "Gold Line". As well, there are PC based programs that are quite affordable (some freeware) and all you'd need is a compatible audio card and reference mic. Google for that...

btw, I get great results with QSC's, but most lines are not cheap. I've got racks of the CX series variably deployed and find them incredibly reliable, roadworthy, and great sounding.