XPL200A vs 4315A first impressions

[johnaec]

OK - I finally picked up that virtaully mint pair of XPL200A's with DX-1 that PARA had and got them set up, though not with the DX-1 yet, (I still need to drag a couple amps over and rewire stuff). But I did put them next to my 4315A's for some A-B comparisons. For amp/pre-amp I only used a top of the line JVC, (I know - groan...), but at least it runs the 4-ohm 4315A's without blowing fuzes, rated 130 watts/channel.

Immediately, there's a big difference in efficiency, maybe because the 4315A's are rated 4 ohms and the XPL200A's are rated 8 ohms - switching back and forth, the 4315A's are much louder, at least for a given volume control setting.

Next, (and this surprised me), even set flat, (but adjusting for ~ equal volume), the XPL's had much less presence/midrange than I was expecting. And I expected to hear a significant difference in clarity, etc., but the 4315A's really surprised me - at least to my ears, they seemed quite as clear as the XPL's. I've always been happy with the 4315's, but I still expected more difference.

I guess the next thing I need to do is to run some RTA curves to see which speaker tonality is actually flatter between the two. Much comparison is needed in the future, including setting up the DX-1 and running everything off dedicated power amps. I'll keep revisiting this thread to post new observations, but it will be over a matter of weeks...

Anyway, here's a pic of them guickly set up. I'm tracking down some kind of rack so I don't have such a mess, but again, it might take a little while.

John

[4313B]

Nice! :)

[oznob]

Hey John,

Glad you got them set up. Sounds like the vitage stuff is going to give the newbie a run for it's money! I will be very interested in finding out what you come up with. If this were a boxing match, it sounds like round 1 goes to the 4315's!

HAVE FUN!

Mark

[speakerdave]

John, you could probably use a six-pack and another pair of ears.

[Robh3606]

Well I'll be!! Another nut case:bouncy: You remind me of my XPL-200/4344 shoot outs. Don't be so quick to judge the XPL's they will give you some surprises. First thing you have to do is level match them or your comparisons will all be biased for the louder pair. Once you do that and can cleanly switch you will notice differences for sure. Have fun and nice set-up!!!

Rob:)

[Nightbrace]

Man you need some better gear, those XPL's are stellar performers. You need to get the volumes to match, at least get a Radio Shack SPL meter to measure the sound pressures. You might be surprised.

[Titanium Dome]

:bash:

It's the blues

:duck:

versus

:duel:

the blacks!

:die:

[Michael Smith]

Great pic, I have owned both and they are both very different animals, however thats all history, the one thing I did find out was that the XPLs' sounded heaps better on their factory stands.
So if you can get a pair go for it.
I would like to hear your conclusions so keep us in the loop.
Regards
Michael

[Mr. Widget]

Isn't life great when these are the tough decisions one has to make?:nutz:


Widget

[DRG]

Interesting thread.

I have owned both as well.

The DX-1 is a very nice addition to the XPL200A.

[pasadena]

<Sigh> :( I can only dream of mine one day but am glad it went to a fellow LHS member. :) I am definitely in the wrong country.

I have the factory stands for the 200's but as soon as my 200's arrive from MN then I'll compare them next to my B&W 801 Matrix Series 3.

[gtimbers]

Giskard asked me to comment on this thread as I come from a position of knowing both speakers very well.

The 4315 is a very compact, high power 4 way studio monitor. It was designed around in-wall mounting although they are very rarely used that way. Its strong points are a very powerful and fast woofer (doesn't go real deep however) and a killer midbass unit. The LE5 is a little aggressive but quite lively. The good news here is that the VC alignment on the LE5 and the 2405 is nearly perfect so none of the combing that usually occurs with the 2405 used with horn drivers happens.

The 4315 requires that the HF and UHF L-Pads be turned down considerably below the "0" setting or the system is too bright. With that said, it is very dynamic, detailed and quite good tonally. It is still one of my favorite spaekers.

The XPL 200 has a killer midrange in the 091 or 093. The blend between the HF and UHF is really good as they are in the same plane and identical materials. The 2214H was chosen to give good bass extension and it does just that. Unfortunately compared to a 4" VC 2203, it doesn't have the kick or dynamics. The biggest weak link inthe XPL 200 is the mid bass unit. It uses a filled polypropylene cone with a vinyl surround. It is very smooth but it is too warm and "fluffy" sounding due to the poly collasping under drive. Another weak point is the LF/MF passive crossover topology. It was done to allow bi-amping with a simple toggle switch. The 4315 crossover uses a higher order crossover at that point and has a much more complicated switching circuit. That means money which I didn't have in the XPL.

I would only expect about 1 - 1.5 dB difference in 2.83v sensitivity in favor of the 4315. If both systems are adjusted to similar HF response (i.e. turn down the 4315 a little) and overall sensitivity I would expect the following:

The 4315 should be more dynamic and detailed below 800 Hz - 1000 Hz. The XPL200 should kick butt above that. The XPL will be considerably more 3-dimensional due to the narrower baffle and neoprene covering. It could be hard to choose between them as they are both quite nice but just different. Bi-amping the XPL really brings it to life by fixing the crossover problem and taking the LF inductor out of the path for the 2214, but a special drive slope is required to do the job correctly. The DX1 is ideal and was developed exactly for that purpose. The 4315 benefits substantially from bi-amping as well.

I'm pleased to see that both are still around and bringing pleasure to people.

[oznob]

I know I can't speak from everyone on this forum, but I for one am honored and humbled to hear comments from the man who designed some of the finest speakers on the planet!:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

[Robh3606]

Yes well said!

Thanks Greg for taking the time to comment.

Rob:)

[4313B]

Thank you Greg.

[GordonW]

Greg, always great to see your input. Nothing better than getting it from the source.

One question- with the XPL200... someone here at our shop, actually queried me not long ago, about the possibility of swapping in a paper-cone 115H in place of the midbass in the XPL200... in the hope of "pepping up" the midbass, for more impact. Do you think there would be too much of a danger of upsetting the crossover/driver tuning, or could this be a worthwhile experiment, at least in theory?

Thanks!!!

Regards,
Gordon.

[Titanium Dome]

Interesting read. Thank you. :)

[Don C]

GT, Thanks for coming here to talk about my favorite speaker. My XPLs are crossed over with a 300Hz 18db active crossover. I have just upgraded my system to use a 5.1 Controller instead of a stereo pre-amp. For surround I have a set of L-20T3 and an Infinity RS 2000.2 as center, pressed into service bacause it was available and fit into the space. Anyway the point of this is that the sound is so beautiful now, it just knocks me out. I put on the 5.1 disc of Brothers in Arms last night and this is the best sound that I have ever heard. Audio Nirvana. Thanks.

[speakerdave]

Way cool.

[johnaec]

Thanks, Greg, for your very enlightening post!


It could be hard to choose between them as they are both quite nice but just different.

I'm pleased to see that both are still around and bringing pleasure to people.Dang! Just as I'm trying to rationalize selling one or the other... :banghead:

Now you've got me trying to figure out how to keep both... :blink:

Thanks again - John

[johnaec]

John, you could probably use a six-pack and another pair of ears.You're welcome to stop by anytime, Dave. Just bring some good tunes, (and Red Tail Ale! ). ;)

John

http://www.mendobrew.com/images/decals/red_tail.jpg

[JuniorJBL]

Thanks for checking in on us Greg!!:applaud:

It is wonderful that you come to the forum once in a while.
Thanks Again

Well John It looks like you have your work cut out for you. Please let us know what you end up with.

[Steve Gonzales]

AWESOME G.T.! :applaud:

[briang]

Greg,
Thanks for your input.:)

Brian G.

[jblnut]

Man am I glad I logged in tonight !

I don't even know where to begin. Maybe THANK YOU for giving us these phenomenal living room icons to enjoy our music with ! I hope you'll drop by more often and share some more insights and comparisons with us.

I enjoy your 250Ti's almost daily and I can't say enough great things about the special x-overs that Giskard cooked up (with some of your input I understand).

Anyways, welcome to this forum and please, please come back to say more. You won't find a more interested (and interesting) audience anywhere....


jblnut

[scott fitlin]

I'm pleased to see that both are still around and bringing pleasure to people.Hello Mr. Timbers, yes, many things vintage JBL as well as current are bringing pleasure to peoples ears!

Its a testament to JBL and the people like yourself that designed products that just wont go away!

Thank you for sharing with us. :thmbsup:

[pasadena]

Greg,

Great to see you on the board and your comments are ever so valuable, priceless in fact.

I know your time is precious but one thing that would be great to see and something all of us here could benefit from are your input/recommendations for modifications/upgrades that could be made to the XPL-200's/DX-1 and 4315's that would extend their capabilities beyond their factory release.

All of us members here are always talking about what changes/additions/removal to drivers and crossovers that can be made but can either speculate, make a calculated decision or go by trial and error to guage our success or failure.

I am sure ideas have popped up since the inception of the 200's and 4315's that you may be able to share with us now that you may not have been able to implement in past speaker designs. You valuable insight is always more than welcome.

Thanks for sharing with us your dreams that have brought pleasure to so many of us listeners.

We hope to see you on here again very soon.

Cheers
Pasadena

[gtimbers]

A quick reply to Gordon.

The 115H paper cone has a nasty peak above 1500 hz. The 115H-1 is really smooth. You could try the swap, I believe the sensitivity and impedance are about the same. I am betting on the -1 still sounding better.

[johnaec]

Do you think that the consumer side will ever re-introduce the "L-Series", or "XPL"? or something as appealing affordability wise short of the Project Array.It seems to me, especially taking inflation into account, that the Performance series almost exactly describes what you're thinking. If the L or XPL series were currently available, I bet they'd fall pretty much into the same price range as the Performance series.

John

[4313B]

It seems to me, especially taking inflation into account, that the Performance series almost exactly describes what you're thinking.Agreed.

[Titanium Dome]

It seems to me, especially taking inflation into account, that the Performance series almost exactly describes what you're thinking. If the L or XPL series were currently available, I bet they'd fall pretty much into the same price range as the Performance series.

John

I agree with your analysis (whether you're correct is not for me to say :dont-know ) and would add that the L250>XPL200>L7>PT800/PS1400 four-way consumer speaker path is one I admire greatly, with the PT800/PS1400 being the most current and to me most satisfying representative, despite a few limitations. It certainly hits the right quality and price points.

[Phil H]

I was curious so I took some numbers from the MSRP list on this site and ran them through the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator. This was to compare with the PT800/PS1400 at $3500 ($1700+$1800)

L300 $1500 in '82 --->$3082 today
L250 $1300 in '85 --->$3129 today
250Ti $2499 in '91 --->$3638 today
L7 $1000 in '95 --->$1301 today
XPL200A $1699 in '92 --->2359 today

For the more modest consumer
L100 $273 in '71 --->$1336 today
L100 $489 in '77 --->$1600 today
L110 $430 in '80 --->$1034 today
L112 $550 in '83 --->$1095 today
L100T $625 in '88 --->$1047 today
120Ti $669 in '89 --->$1117 today
L100T3 $729 in '91 --->$1061 today

Oh, I shouldn't forget the Paragon
D44000 $2500 in '71 --->$12240 today

[4313B]

Brilliant work Phil H....you made my point.:applaud: So you are looking for something a cut above the Northridge Series or Studio L Series but below the TiK and Performance Series?

[Titanium Dome]

I was curious so I took some numbers from the MSRP list on this site and ran them through the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator. This was to compare with the PT800/PS1400 at $3500 ($1700+$1800)

L300 $1500 in '82 --->$3082 today
L250 $1300 in '85 --->$3129 today
250Ti $2499 in '91 --->$3638 today
L7 $1000 in '95 --->$1301 today
XPL200A $1699 in '92 --->2359 today

For the more modest consumer
L100 $273 in '71 --->$1336 today
L100 $489 in '77 --->$1600 today
L110 $430 in '80 --->$1034 today
L112 $550 in '83 --->$1095 today
L100T $625 in '88 --->$1047 today
120Ti $669 in '89 --->$1117 today
L100T3 $729 in '91 --->$1061 today

Oh, I shouldn't forget the Paragon
D44000 $2500 in '71 --->$12240 today


Brilliant work Phil H....you made my point.:applaud: Some the better offerings from JBL are no where to be found in dealer's showrooms, either....in Southern California, no less.

That's a great list, Phil. The L250 and 250Ti are very close to the PS. Since I'm not very well-versed in the inflation calculator, can you elaborate a bit on how it works? For example, does it take a static figure, say a retail price in 1980 and use currency inflation or COLA as the basis of predicting a current price? Or does it look at the various factors involved in the production of an item, calculate the increases in those costs, and produce a "this-is-what-it-would-cost-to-make-it-today" price?

As an example, I'm betting the cost of walnut veneer has gone up faster than the rate of inflation and would cause a product to be more costly to manufacture today than a simple rate of inflation calculation could express. Would that factor be ignored by the inflation calculator?

In any event, it looks like the L7 could be a barn burner of a bargain, even though it's not quite in the same class...or is it?

Here's a list of Tweeter Stores in CA, most of which are in SoCal. I checked a couple and they have the Performance Series in-store. They're selling PT800s for $1600. http://www.tweeter.com/corp/index.jsp

The best factory authorized value is still at harmanaudio.com where the PT800 is $1050 and the PS1400 is $1119. http://harmanaudio.com/search_browse/default.asp?sp=S&brand=JBL&market=HOM

When comparing the Performance Series stacks to the other gear, remember that there's a 400W amp and two enclosures in the mix. (Although vinyl clad enclosures, I know. No walnut or black ash here.)

Sing Young Home Theater World in San Diego, San Gabriel, and Eagle Rock (Los Angeles) was carrying the Performance Series in-store, but now it's special order. They've got the TiK Series, however. http://www.karaokemusicworld.com/audioHT.php?cat[0]=Audio&cat[1]=Speakers&cat[2]=&cat[3]=&menu=audio&menu1=&Sortby=ProductID&pages=4

[johnaec]

When comparing the Performance Series stacks to the other gear, remember that there's a 400W amp and two enclosures in the mix.'Good point! That's several hundreds of dollars in amplification value right there, (plus the 14" advantage over the 12's in the L7's and XPL200's)!

Factor that in/out, and the Performance series seems right on the money, with the added benefit of a matching center, if desired.

John

[Valentin]

Has any one compaired de perfomnce series vs LSR 6332 with lsr6312p sub
4 way vs 4 way is in the same price range
i have LSR
and i have never heard the perfomance

[Mr. Widget]

When comparing the Performance Series stacks to the other gear, remember that there's a 400W amp and two enclosures in the mix. (Although vinyl clad enclosures, I know. No walnut or black ash here.)The lack of real wood is a huge negative for me. I suppose JBL agrees since they are offering the Project Array Series in real wood.

Since I haven't heard or seen the Performance Series in person, I probably shouldn't comment, but after reading so many of your posts I feel almost as if they are in the other room.;) That said, it seems to me that the Performance series was designed with a low price point in mind and then either production costs or the level of their actual performance dictated that they would be priced more mid market. It is just surprising that other people offer $200 speakers in exquisite hardwoods and these at 10X that range are vinyl.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

The lack of real wood is a huge negative for me. I suppose JBL agrees since they are offering the Project Array Series in real wood.

Since I haven't heard or seen the Performance Series in person, I probably shouldn't comment, but after reading so many of your posts I feel almost as if they are in the other room.;) That said, it seems to me that the Performance series was designed with a low price point in mind and then either production costs or the level of their actual performance dictated that they would be priced more mid market. It is just surprising that other people offer $200 speakers in exquisite hardwoods and these at 10X that range are vinyl.


Widget


I wasn't real sure when I bought them whether they were real black ash or not. I assumed so since my L7s were real ash. Even after the truck dropped the pallet at my house and I took them upstairs, I wasn't certain if it was a really thin veneer or vinyl. Once I turned a PT800 upside down, then it was obvious, looking at the unfinished edge.

Fortunately, I pursued them for their sound, not their finish, so my disappointment was slight and fleeting. They look just fine for black speakers; in fact, the cherry looks pretty good, too. It's the sound that put me on the hunt, and it's the sound that keeps them in the house.

The L250s are another story. I really bid on them because of the looks. I thought I needed a real wood veneer classic to show off, I suppose. So many people raved about the design, that I really pursued them to own the look. Having heard them in the past, I had no illusions that they'd be better sounding than the PS--they're not IMO. But they are stunning and real wood, too. Having achieved the visual goal of the L250s, I find myself liking the sound quite a bit, too. But the L250s remain in the garage/studio, not the main listening room.

[Phil H]

That's a great list, Phil. The L250 and 250Ti are very close to the PS. Since I'm not very well-versed in the inflation calculator, can you elaborate a bit on how it works? For example, does it take a static figure, say a retail price in 1980 and use currency inflation or COLA as the basis of predicting a current price? Or does it look at the various factors involved in the production of an item, calculate the increases in those costs, and produce a "this-is-what-it-would-cost-to-make-it-today" price?

As an example, I'm betting the cost of walnut veneer has gone up faster than the rate of inflation and would cause a product to be more costly to manufacture today than a simple rate of inflation calculation could express. Would that factor be ignored by the inflation calculator?

The calculator is at the BLS website (http://www.bls.gov/) There are several pages of information on how it is calculated. It is based on the consumer price index. Breifly: "The CPI inflation calculator uses the average Consumer Price Index for a given calendar year. This data represents changes in prices of all goods and services purchased for consumption by urban households. This index value has been calculated every year since 1913. For the current year, the latest monthly index value is used." There are too many variables to include all of them. One would have to know the price of walnut in the past and compare that to today's values. I know that good quality domestic hardwood was plentiful at one time. But, we have used up the trees faster than they can grow.

Styles and materials for construction change. My personal preferences change. For the good or the bad, my taste in furnishing is moving backwards in time. When I was young, plastic commodity goods where an evil thing and "made in Japan" meant low quality. Today, plastics are wonderful and products manufactured in China have improved dramatically. I do not want this thread to go sideway (I avoid products made in China for other reasons). My point is that times change. I wish JBL had a modern day L100. By this, I mean a good product at a modest price that has tremendous sales.

I wasn't trying to make any kind of pissing match out of this. I really don't have much of an opinion. If I see something I like and I can afford it, I buy it. It is pointless for me worry about how I think it should be. Prices and price points are things that I just accept. It would be more informative to compare the price history with other speaker manufactures to see where the JBL's stand against the rest of the market. Like you pointed out, the L250 > Performance Series progression and price point has been fairly stable.

The only reason I haven't bought a set of the Performance Series, is that I can not justify the expense. I am 45, My dominant hand is worn out from work and some stinkin' sugery on my elbow made things worse. So, I am a full-time student at CSULA. I won't have a engineering degree for another 1-1/2 years. I am lucky that I can maintain my current standard of living and buy a few used speakers without any income.

[johnaec]

The lack of real wood is a huge negative for me. I suppose JBL agrees since they are offering the Project Array Series in real wood.That is one thing that probably keeps the Performance series from being substantially more expensive, especially with the complex angles involved. But if done well, I'd rather that than a prohibitively high price point, preventing entry into that level of sound quality, (as if I could afford them right now :( ).

'Too bad they don't offer them in unfinished kit form, allowing those so inclined to apply the veneer or finish of their choice. I guess the negatives are obvious, though - JBL surely doesn't want to see their name associated with a poorly executed example... :biting:

John

[Don C]

They do offer the satellites in plain black for in-wall mounting. Part of the Synthesis series.

[Rusnzha]

Sure, they cut some corners, but they put the money where it counts. Even the studio series are built like a brick shit house and they beat audiofile speakers at 10X the price.

[4313B]

I wouldn't sell any of it right away.

I'd put the 046Ti-1 and 093Ti with the 2108 and 2203 in new boxes, bi-amp with custom cards in the DX-1, and call it a day.

You'll still have all the original items in case you want to put anything back to original.

[johnaec]

I'd put the 046Ti-1 and 093Ti with the 2108 and 2203 in new boxes, bi-amp with custom cards in the DX-1, and call it a day.After reading Greg's post, I actually thought of that. Maybe I'll try that sometime. :)

John

[4313B]

After reading Greg's post, I actually thought of that.Bingo! :idea:

Maybe someday I'll send you some pictures of my "XPL250's".

I built them in such a way that I could use the 112H/093Ti/046Ti-1 8-inch 3-ways bi-amped to either my 121H subs, LE14H-1 subs, or SUB1500 subs. The 046Ti-1 and 093Ti are mounted in an enclosure roughly a 1/2" wider then their frames are and the edges are cut back ala PT800. The 112H is in a 0.4 cu ft enclosure with minimal baffle width designed in the same octagonal shape as the PT800's. It's really pretty cool actually but I am considering also building a mini 250Ti type enclosure just for the 8-inch 3-ways. My wife likes that look better. Maybe someday if I get bored and feel like cutting up some MDF.

[johnaec]

OK - I hooked up the DBX DriveRack 260 with its calibrated mic today and ran a few curves. Unlike Zilch's Behringer, (which analyzes 1/6 octaves), the DR260 only does 1/3 octave, with 16K being the highest.

Grilles were removed for the tests, with the mic centered both vertically and horizontally in front of the respective speakers, at a distance of 1 meter. Testing level was ~ 94dB, measured with a C-weighted Radio Shack digital SPL meter.

Bear in mind that because of the environmental conditions, these curves should really only be looked at for relative differences between the speakers. Perhaps later in the year I'll take them in the backyard, laying them flat, and get some much more objective curves.

One thing obvious in all curves is that both speakers would benefit from being raised above the floor, (judging by LF output). Also, this was done in my living room, with lots of padded and also reflective surfaces, all over the place - I'm sure this had a significant impact on the readings. Also, I believe the pink noise has a crest factor of a couple dB - that's why the curves vary a little in the LF on the same speaker.

The first curve is of the 4315A, with all controls at "0". The next one is the 4315A with the UHF at -4, HF at -3, and MF at 0, as per Greg Timbers' comments - these settings appeared to yield the flattest response.

The third curve is of the XPL200A with the HF trim flat, and the following curve is with the -2 dB switch turned on.

Anyway, I'll leave the speakers with the trim settings enabled for a while, to get some closer listening comparisons in the future.

John

[johnaec]

How do you "normally" have your 4315A settings?Normally I had all the levels at "0" and used a little outboard EQ to smooth things out.

BTW - lowering the level of the 8" MF in the 4315's took that bump at 630hz down, but added dips to both sides of it... :(

Also, once you realize the graphs are +/- 12 dB at full scale, the curves aren't too bad.

One thing I don't like is that the graphs are also based more on what an engineer would want to see at the outputs - green for safe, then yellow, and finally red for peaks. It doesn't make for a very natural looking graph, (although I should have raised the gain a little for a mean of "0").

John

[Robh3606]

Hello Johnaec

I would like to make a couple of suggestions on setting these up and where to take your measurements from. I always look at tunning speakers in my room from a different perspective. I don't really care what the 1 meter curves look like. Simple reason is I don't listen there. If I set-up my speakers for good on axis response I do it from my prime listening positions. The reasons for this is two fold. If you have done your speaker placement right they are set-up to have the least bit of interaction with your room modes. Same with your listening position. It's your listening position because it gives you the best overall frequency response and the best balance of direct and reflected sound. When you set-up the controls and levels on the drivers you want the best response where you listen. Measure from there not at 1 meter. Just set the Microphone up on a stand at seated ear height and see what you get there. You also have to remember that these 4 ways are not that easy to measure close in. You might want to try at least 2 meters. I find the 4344 won't "look" right at 1 meter simply becasue the distance between drivers won't allow them to integrate properly at that distance.

Rob:)

[johnaec]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Like I mentioned in the RTA post, I know these curves aren't representative of the sound in the room - they were simply meant to show the relative differences. And Rob - I too was concerned with the 1 meter measurement re: blending of the drivers. I'll do some more tests from a listening position when I get the chance, (hopefully later today).

Also, there was about 15" difference horizontal mic placement between the two speakers, (directly in front of each one), which also likely accounts for some of the differences, probably mainly in the LF curves, I'd guess.

John

[4313B]

It looks like Greg measured the 4315B 4W @ 2m (4.5V).

[johnaec]

It looks like Greg measured the 4315B 4W @ 2m (4.5V).I'll try 2 meters too. I'm not sure how to measue the output voltage correctly, (I do have meters - do I just check AC voltage across the leads?), or do you know what dB SPL level that would equate to? I'll also do the XPL's this way. I'll also make sure both speakers are in the same location for the next checks.

John

[Robh3606]

"I'm not sure how to measue the output voltage correctly, (I do have meters - do I just check AC voltage across the leads?), or do you know what dB SPL level that would equate to?"

You may not want the same voltages on the terminals because that doesn't account for the sensitivity differences. That and a Whoops:banghead: can ruin your whole day. You really don't need to know what the exact SPL is to do the comparisons. You can use relative measurements just as well. When you set them up just get a baseline measurement. Choose a system doesn't matter which and use it to get a snapshoot of your in room response from say 300Hz and Up. Just set the speakers to give the same relative level through this range when you make the comparisons. You can use your RTA for this. Just measure from the exact same place in your room when you do it. I have an SPL meter and the RTA and SPL meter track each other very well. Just make sure that the RTA is not on auto range. With mine it can auto range to keep the measurement centered in the RTA window. You don't want that.

Rob:)

[boputnam]

You really don't need to know what the exact SPL is to do the comparisons. You can use relative measurements just as well. When you set them up just get a baseline measurement. Agreed.

But I would "baseline" each "system" (read: set-up) using Pink Noise and SPL. Get things relatively normalized, and then do your tests. Without a meaningful normalization, there are far too many variables.

[Mr. Widget]

We got a bit off topic and a bit rude as well so I deleted a few posts. With luck we can continue this very interesting and informative thread in the spirit that it was begun by John.


Widget

[oznob]

Good call, no, GREAT CALL Mr. Widget! John is passionate about this stuff and he's a great guy! We owe it to him to stay on point!:yes:

[boputnam]

Good, but difficult call.

There is an urgency in some quarters to try and winnow the wheat from the chaff here, and ensure that readers can distinguish between the two. There's all sorta combinations that might "work", but posters need to define "WORK" as in JBL parlance, and "work" as in other (read: DIY at your own risk), and parse the two. It seems to be driving quite a number to drink.

Hell, I know I wanna get hammered... :bouncy:

[johnaec]

Well, I finally got the XPL200A's biamped with the DX-1 crossover. For LF I borrowed a JBL 6260 from Zilch, and for HF I'm (temporarily) using a JBL 6215, (Zilch also loaned me a 6230 for HF, but one channel's out... :( ).

Unfortunately, I have no true pre-amp, ('looking at an Adcom, though), so right now, I've got the CD player going into a cheap DOD 1/3 octave graphic EQ, which fortunately has master level controls, and also RCA plugs, (in addition to balanced inputs), which go straight out to the DX-1.

I haven't gotten much farther than making sure it all works, (it does!), and I won't get a real chance for serious listening tests/comparisons until I get back from vacation next week. But so far, even with the little 6215 for HF, it sounds amazingly good! Lately, I've been alternating mostly between the XPL's and the 4430's, with the 4315's doing backup. Now I need to figure out how to come up with a setup that allows for meaningful comparisons between all this stuff. The hard part will be dealing with different amps, which wasn't a factor in my earlier tests.

Anyway, just wanted to update the situation. Now, I have to go mow the lawn ... 'more later.

John

[Zilch]

(Zilch also loaned me a 6230 for HF, but one channel's out... :( )"You break it, you bought it!" :p

Naw, I'll check another one out from the dungeon for you, and swap it.... :thmbsup: