My custom JBL corner horns

[Wardsweb]

Thought I would toss a couple pics on here of my JBL loaded custom speakers. These are still a work in progress, but you get the general idea of what I'm doing. Here I still need to finish the veneer to the face.

[Wardsweb]

They use LE-175 HF compression driver, H91 conical horn and H94 bent plate lense for the high end.

[Wardsweb]

the bottom end is handled with 2220 pro drivers

[Wardsweb]

this shot shows the 3110A crossover mounted (tops have not been veneered in this pic)

[Wardsweb]

good shot after the tops were veneered in Brazilian Rosewood

[Alex Lancaster]

They look really beatiful, what are You going to use for subwoofers and tweeters?

Alex.

[Earl K]

Hi
I love that rosewood. Very Classy ! :yes:

It's a nice idea to use those H94 lenses.

What is your enclosure design ( if you don't mind me asking ) ? You mention it's custom - but - there must be more to the story than just that .

regards <. Earl K :)

[Wardsweb]

Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
They look really beatiful, what are You going to use for subwoofers and tweeters?

Alex.


Not that I want a lot of bass from these in a tube driven stereo setup, but I do have the option of turning on the dual 18" bass horns. :D

[Wardsweb]

Another step with horn and lens mounted. The LF grill is held in place with magnets embedded in the frame and behind the veneer.

As for the cabinets, they started out in life as Wharfedale corner cabinets around 1961. I've had them for years and just decided to finally do something with them after picking up the horns on a deal.

[Wardsweb]

I'll drive these with this one off custom direct coupled "ultra-path" 2A3 that I built after my buddy John came up with the schematic on a notepad.

[thevott]

Groovy system. True industrial art.

[Audiobeer]

Absolutely beautiful! I love that veneer!

[scott fitlin]

How do you like the Bassmaxx horns? I see your in Texas, Ill bet you even know the people from Core systems! Your corner horns look great.

[Wardsweb]

I picked up the B1's from Rhino Acoustics (the manufacturer) in Houston. My buddy Johan is the actual designer. I now use them in my home theater. They WILL rock the house. :D

[Audiobeer]

Originally posted by Wardsweb
I'll drive these with this one off custom direct coupled "ultra-path" 2A3 that I built after my buddy John came up with the schematic on a notepad.

That looks great! How do they sound? What were your cost's with the glass?

[Wardsweb]

I like them, but then I would be biased...no pun intended. I have taken these to a couple different area "Bottlehead" aduio meets and they were received very well by other hardcore tubefiles. They are warm and detailed with a good bottom end. They don't hint at their meager 3.5 watts per channel. They will drive my Altec A7's louder than you would want to stay in the room. As for cost, around a $800 investment and a lot of my time.

[Wardsweb]

I've been talking with Mr. Widget about his Westlakes horns. Anyone have any comments about using these with 2441 drivers as mid horns and just laying them on top of this corner speakers? If so, can I suppliment the crossovers with something just for the mid horns or do I need an entirely different crossover?

[gerard]

I have just seen those very beautiful speakers

May I have the size ?

Is it bass reflex behind ?

Thanks for info ..
gerard .

[Wardsweb]

If you take a look at the 4th picture on page one, you will notice it has dual rear ports. It is made to sit in a corner. There the bottom end is unreal. Here is a in-process picture to give you size.

[Wardsweb]

And the finished product. These were very well received at this past weekends audio meet at my house.

[scott fitlin]

I've been talking with Mr. Widget about his Westlakes horns. Anyone have any comments about using these with 2441 drivers as mid horns and just laying them on top of this corner speakers? If so, can I suppliment the crossovers with something just for the mid horns or do I need an entirely different crossover?I use the 2441,s and get phenomenal results from them. Clear, transparent, and vivacious sounding mids!

I have heard the original JBL 2397 woode horns many times, with 2441,s, and gauss 4000 series 2in drivers, and I always thought the wood horns sound great! Very smooth. Widgets horns look fantastic, and he knows what hes doing, so I would bet the 41,s anf his horns will work great! Cosmetically it will match your great looking corner basshorns!

I see your going to use the passive crossovers, there are others who can tell you more on what you may need to do.

I LOVE 2441,s!

[gerard]

Hi Wardsweb.

Just to understand because I never make a diy .

The rear port are very high instead of port near the basement like 43xx ?
Is this calculate because of the shape and the rear opening ? .

Also , it's a 2 way, Can this horn goes up to 17 khz , I thought only the 44xx horn only was able to go up ( never heard 44xx but I began with 2 way : 2420 and If I remember there was really a lack of uhf ) ?

I would like to build something like 44xx or a cabinet like yours but I am afraid going 2 ways and to be disapointed in uhf compared to my 434x , I listen lot of jazz and need uhf otherwyse max roach and elvin jones would kill me !

regrads
Gerard .

[Earl K]

Wow,

Again, those are just so attractive looking . It's great that you "zoomed" this thread upwards so I could see those again.
Also ! Wonderfull looking amps !


Now, I'm a bit foggy regarding your crossover question;

- Are you wishing to add in the 2441s to make this a 3way setup ?
or
- Maintain your 2-way design by taking the le175/H94 right out of the circuit and replacing them (electrically) with the 2441/Westlakes ?


If its a 3way setup you want , then I think you should design another 2way hipass section from scratch. You could model it on the N7000 or N8000 concept with appropriate LC values for these drivers working AC impedances.


regards <. EarlK

[Wardsweb]

Yes I'm looking to go 3-way, maybe 4. I'm really up in the air on where to go from here. I think the LE175 rolls off around 15K, so I don't get that ultra high end crispness I like. So one option would be to have Widget's horn lay on top to do some nice midrange and replace the LE175 with something that goes higher. Then there is always the 4-way to add Widget's horn on top for mid and a 077 between the LE175 and the 2220 for UHF.

Any idea's ? As you may have already guessed, speaker design is NOT my forte'.

[Earl K]

Any idea's ? As you may have already guessed, speaker design is NOT my forte'.


Oy-Vay ,,,,

I have to say this, the "look" of those cabinets is just about perfect in my eyes. I love the broadly finished wood grain face and the richly finished top. Also, the way the H94 stands above the discreetly hidden woofer is quite cool. If they were mine, I would do everything I could to maintain those esthetics.

Having said that, I realize you want more mid & UHF, so ,,,

I'd first investigate installing the 2441 on either a JBL 2311 or Selenium HL 14-50, 2" horn. The Selenium 14-50 is essentially a 2311 with a finished off bell flare. It picks up where the 2311 stops. The Selenium ( & of course 2311 ) would still remain fully unseen behind your H94. For a tweeter; the choice is yours. A nicely matched rosewood stand to hold a 2405/02/03 or multiple Fostex models is how I would "cap-off" this project. A 2403 "Cats-Eye" would look ultra-cool (IMHO) embedded in that wood face under the H94. But that's all the wood cutting I would do.

EDIT Actually, I'd intall Altec 288 drivers (alnicos) on the mentioned Selenium horn ( Selenium also makes the necessary 1.4" to 2" adapter ). I'd buy old alnico 288(s) - any impedance , maybe refinish them, and then send them off to Bill at Great Plains for remagging and the installation of new 16 ohm diaphragms. I use 288-8K drivers on "said" horn. Overall, this driver/horn combo has good loading to just below 800hz and most importantly, the overall horn/driver system sounds to my ears to be "critically damped". I can't say the same for the 2441 on these horns or the 2311. The JBL(s) always sounds like an "underdamped" system. I suggest older 288(s) because they are smaller ( & you may have some space constraints to deal with ).

- I had thought of suggesting a 10" mid - but that would unnecessarily "despoile" this classic look that you've got going with this cabinet so far .

- I'd save the purchase of 2441 drivers for use on Widgets horns.

Do buy a set of Widgets horns ,,, by all means . :D
- I would just use them in a different project.
- Say with a 15" Bass Reflex loaded with a 2235 / me150h / 1500fe / or 1500AL .

My thoughts for now <. Earl K :)

[gerard]

why not using the 242x and a 4430 horn , it would go to 20 khz ?
never heard a 4430 but I have read it can be as better as 434x ??? thread 443x-434x.
I am suspicious about UHF specially for Jazz .

If it is ok so 2 way can be nice , I still have a project to build my own 2397 for december , i bemieve it's ok with 434x but you corner speakers would loose their beauty with such a horn ( my point of view )

gerard

[Wardsweb]

OK, what about just adding an 077 or similiar slot tweeter in the open space between the horn and the woofer? All in a line, they would still be very clean, as an array should image nicely and nothing to hide the beauty of the top I took sooooooooo much time to make.

If I add an 077, can I just add another crossover fed by the HF signal from the existing crossover that would inturn split the signal to the LE175 and 077?

[Earl K]

OK, what about just adding an 077 or similiar slot tweeter in the open space between the horn and the woofer? All in a line, they would still be very clean, as an array should image nicely and nothing to hide the beauty of the top I took sooooooooo much time to make.

If I add an 077, can I just add another crossover fed by the HF signal from the existing crossover that would inturn split the signal to the LE175 and 077?


See my above edit for a mid driver suggestion . I would "retire" the le175 from midrange duties. Even a le85 or 2425/6 driver will give more authority in the lower mid than the small magneted le175/2410 ( though this smaller driver has other charms ).

Yes, I think adding a tweeter below the H94 will work for imaging concerns - though, I don't know how well the H94 actually images. If/when you add a tweeter you only need to actually construct that singular portion of the UHF HiPass network. It can derive it's signal from wires paralleled down to the other crossovers input posts. This then, has you using your existing crossovers HiPass section only on the midrange-horn. I would then explore making this HiPass section into a BandPass section by also adding an appropriate sized inductor and maybe the accompaning capacitor .

As per your crossover question : Just buying a N8000 ( maybe that's a decent choice ) and running its' input from the existing crossovers HF ouput will work. The N8000 then drives the horn driver and tweeter, just as you surmised. Now what I don't like about this option is that ultimately the tweeter level is dependant on the setting of 2 Lpads. Not optimal flexibilty in my books .

- Widget likes 18db slopes around 9K (?)on tweeters - that sounds like a real good starting point. So, parts wise when making your own UHF Xover section, that's ( per channel); 2 capacitors, 1 inductor and maybe an L-Pad if you want variable control versus (2) fixed resistors.

regards <. Earl K

[Robh3606]

"Yes, I think adding a tweeter below the H94 will work for imaging concerns - though, I don't know how well the H94 actually images."


Hello Earl

It works just fine. I use it instead of a 2308 on my 4344 clones. It works very well indeed with the 077/2405.

Rob:)

[Earl K]

Thanks Robh

It's good to know that the H94/077 combo does image well - that lens is very cool looking .
A slot tweeter below it would be quite attractive .

regards <> Earl K

[Wardsweb]

Now the $64,000 question: where do I look for a pair of 077's and N8000's besides Ebay. The collectors are driving the prices through the roof.

[scott fitlin]

How about a brand NEW pair of 2405,s? They work very well, and will sound great!

[Earl K]

Hi Wardsweb,

If you do a search for Mr. Widget (&) N8000 (http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=778) you'll get some ideas. The first hit about modifying a L200 into a L300 has some good relevant info in it. You'll also see that Mr. Widget states that building a N8000 (3106) is the way to go from a costing point of view . I have to agree. Also, I'd probably design a 3 pole ( vs 2 pole ) filter .

Maybe Mr. Widget will chime in .

<. Earl K

[Wardsweb]

How about a brand NEW pair of 2405,s? They work very well, and will sound great!
This is where I get into cost versus satisfaction. As you can no dought tell, I"m very much into esthetics. I really like the look of the crystal prism, but I won't pay stupid money for them. It's kind of a mental matrix of the delta between the utils of satisfaction for 077's and 2405's and the associated dollars. In plain english, I will pay more for 077's but not so much I hit the law of dimenishing return.

Which brings us to, where do you buy new JBL stuff? Any JBL dealers on this site? Anyone we want to give our business to?

[Wardsweb]

Hi Wardsweb,

If you do a search for Mr. Widget (&) N8000 (http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=778) you'll get some ideas. The first hit about modifying a L200 into a L300 has some good relevant info in it. You'll also see that Mr. Widget states that building a N8000 (3106) is the way to go from a costing point of view . I have to agree. Also, I'd probably design a 3 pole ( vs 2 pole ) filter .

Maybe Mr. Widget will chime in .

<. Earl K

Thanks - Good Stuff there.

[Robh3606]

"Which brings us to, where do you buy new JBL stuff? Any JBL dealers on this site? Anyone we want to give our business to?"

That's a good question any reccomendations out there?? I have always defauted to E-Bay. You can get some great BIN's but it can take a while for your number to come up. I agree about the 077. They look great but the prices are nuts compared to what used 2405's can be had for. A new pair of 2405 has to be close to $550 or more. You can get cores and install new diaphrams for much less.

The 4344 uses a 3 pole too. Integrates very nicely that way I would go that way.

Rob:)

[gerard]

why not using the 242x and a 4430 horn , it would go to 20 khz ?
never heard a 4430 but I have read it can be as better as 434x ??? thread 443x-434x.
I am suspicious about UHF specially for Jazz .

If it is ok so 2 way can be nice , I still have a project to build my own 2397 for december , i bemieve it's ok with 434x but you corner speakers would loose their beauty with such a horn ( my point of view )

gerard

[andresohc]

This is where I get into cost versus satisfaction. As you can no dought tell, I"m very much into esthetics. I really like the look of the crystal prism, but I won't pay stupid money for them. It's kind of a mental matrix of the delta between the utils of satisfaction for 077's and 2405's and the associated dollars. In plain english, I will pay more for 077's but not so much I hit the law of dimenishing return.

Which brings us to, where do you buy new JBL stuff? Any JBL dealers on this site? Anyone we want to give our business to?
If you are looking for a JBL dealer, I have had success with Orange County Speaker. They do a good business by mail order and internet but I have always walked in ( I live a few miles from them). They are full retail pricing and you probably could find cheaper by 20 or $30 each 2405 but these guys know their stuff and seem to have a lot of integrity if something isnt the way it should be.

http://speakerrepair.com/

[John Y.]

Wardsweb,

I am very impressed with your beautifiul craftsmanship. This is where I was heading in my future plans for rear channels in my Hartsfield home theater concept.

Having the reflex port on the back side in the corner cavity is brilliant. Port unseen. How cool!

How did you attach your L94s to the system? I assume the 2311s end up flush with the front surface. Did you use T-nuts for the lens?

John Y.

[Wardsweb]

The horn mounts from the back with the countersunk bolts attaching from the front of the speaker. The lenses have plastic strips on the back that are threaded for mounting. I run small bolts from the back side that screw into these mounting tabs. I'll take some pics and post later.

[majick47]

In process of having my L200b speakers overhauled with new cones, diaphrams by local JBL pro shop, Pro Sound Service, Braintree MA. They said they have a pair of older 2405 16ohm tweeters. Don't have a price on them yet but if this should fall through I will be in the market for 2405 tweeters and might be interested in the pair Scott Fitlin has if they are the older 16ohm version.

[Wardsweb]

Ok, the latest on my project. I have purchased a mint pair of 077 tweeters and this eveing built some DIY 3106 crossovers. For a quick listen, I set the 077's on top of the cabinet and put on some Madeleine Peyroux. SAWEET! This is what I was looking for. The high end sizzles. I can hear the brushes drag across the snare. Now I have to router some 3-1/8 holes in the face of the cabinets to mount these tweeters.

Thanks to all who have helped with info and schematics to help me realize my dream. These are keepers.

[Robh3606]

Nice looking crossover! That 077 certainly does add a bit more than you realize doesn't!!

Rob:)

[Wardsweb]

Thanks, it's kind of crude, but it works well. I quess it's not to bad being the first crossover I've ever built.