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View Full Version : A "FEW" decisions to make this weekend.



Nightbrace
02-09-2006, 09:54 PM
Took this weekend off, I got to get my Home Theater set-up if it kills me. I am considering using the L100T's as my main home theater speakers. What do you guys think about this choice? What center channel would match up well with these? I am presently using a Fostex full range driver in a custom cab for a center channel. This may not be the BEST choice for a center given that it is about 10 Db more efficient. Would a single JBL speaker like a 4406 work ok like this one on Ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-4406-Studio-Monitor-Speaker_W0QQitemZ7387184416QQcategoryZ47093QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

I think I'll use L36's as rears and a HSU HRSW12Va as a subwoofer.

I'd also like to get some little studio monitors, the overall consensus seems to be that the L20T's will be a great choice, but what about the 4401, honestly I just like the look of them for my desk, is there that big of a difference in these small monitors? The 4301B's seem like the BEST option, but I'd like to spend only $100-$150 for them.

I'd also like to at least decide what speakers to start looking for, for my front room. I really don't want "montior" speakers, but true floorstanders that I can just sit back and listen to. The speakers I am considerinbg using the most are the L65 Jubal. I have heard both good and bad things about them. Not that its a bad speaker, but a bad value and that the JBL L100T/T3 will actually sound better and cost about half as much. Before I abandon my EN3 project completely, I just want to be assured that the Jubals will sound at least as good as what I have planned. Here is a link to the EN3's,

http://www.lansingheritage.org/imag...-pro/page13.jpg

My question is, how will these cabs wilth the components I am planning (128H woofers, LE5-6 mids, LE25-4 tweeters and L100 crossovers), compare to the Jubals, I can only imagine what they will sound like and before I commit to starting the EN3's was wondering what you guys think.

And sorry guys for posting so many individual threads, I am relatively new to JBL speakers and have a TON of questions. I think I got everything off my chest in this thread. At least I have things somewhat narrowed down,.

SUPERBEE
02-09-2006, 10:11 PM
I keep everything seperate


My stereo is for listening to music and that is all it plays

My home theatre is for watching movies. I have a decent little $500 Home Theatre In A Box

Never the twain shall meet


IMHO!

Nightbrace
02-09-2006, 10:22 PM
I agree, I do the same. HT receivers are not meant for music.

Steve Gonzales
02-09-2006, 10:36 PM
I also have a dedicated 2 channel rig and HT rig. The great thing about Home Theater is that you can have satisfaction (generally) with run of the mill systems. I use a suite of the best that Mordaunt-Short sells and an Energy MicroStar 12.1 sub, but have been satisfied with a much lesser setup. I think if you could somehow find three pairs of L15's/L20t's/L1's or some pro equals and run them with your HSU sub, you'd be very satisfied. Leave the music to a dedicated system and some big floor standers. Another great thing about HT is that you don't need much low frequency output (20-90hz) from your mains because of the sub. I would use two subs. Space doesn't permit this in my small HT room, but when it did, it sure made a big difference in filling up the nulls that one sub cannot do most of the time. It also depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you're not going to spend big $$$$, then I also suggest auditioning a Denon DD/DTS 2805/6 or bigger . I've tried most of the $750-$1700 units and found that Denon has a great sounding/performing product for the money. I also run 6.1 (front and rear center channels), this fills a void that bugged me with 5.1. Most all HT receivers in the previously mentioned price range support this configuration and that is why I also mentioned three pairs of little JBL's. Good luck with your theater project, Steve G.

Nightbrace
02-09-2006, 10:52 PM
Thanks for the advice, and I agree, the L100T's might be a bit of overkill. The HSU sub is more than competent when placed in the right place on its own, the room isn't large enough to warrant another.

I have another set of L36's in my extra room, would they work well enough for my HT mains? That way I could keep the L100T's as my dedicated music speakers in the livingroom. If I go with the 4 L36's, would it be best to find a single L36 for a center? It would look goofy, but would it be the best option? What other smaller speakers would work just as good with the L36's as a center? Did you get a chance to check out that Ebay auction for the single 4406?

BTW I am using a HK 5.1 receiver. I like it and doubt a Denon would be that much better, at least not for what I am willing to spend. And unfortunately my room will not allow for 6.1.

Steve Gonzales
02-09-2006, 11:43 PM
L36's would work as mains, especially if your HK receiver has the 'sub+mains' ability, where you can redirect some LF information to your mains if they have a good LF output like the L36's. Center channel choice is a whole other ball of wax. I've had $1K plus center channel models that sounded like crap!. Timbre matching your HT speakers is what is critical ( they should use very simular or identical drivers). Maybe you could build one with JBL drivers. Otherwise, you're gonna have to shop around and find another L36/50/110 if you want to keep them all basically in the ballpark as far as the timbre thing goes. If you are not familiar with the term 'timbre', it refers to the unique 'voicing' or 'sonic character' of a particular model. Hell, it may not even be that important to you?. I think the single on ebay would suit your setup just fine for now. I must say that the HK surround receivers do sound good to me too, heavy buggers huh?. I think that later down the road, you'll notice that your choice of the center channel will change until you find one that will deliver dialogue with a natural sound, otherwise it will make the human voice sound like there is a pillow over the speaker or it's muffled. Hope this helps, Steve G

Nightbrace
02-10-2006, 12:23 AM
The Fostex is great and sounds great by itself, but with the JBL's I am afraid that it will drown them out given that its 10 DB more efficient. I used it with the Infinity Column II's I had with great results. I have since sold them to be replcaed by some JBL's :D , so I doubt it will match up as well as the with the Infinities.

Unfortunately, I know how difficult timbre matching is for a center channel to sound right, I guess you could argue that unless you buy speakers especially made for this purpose that you can't match them reasonably well, but for my purposes, they don't need to be that perfect, I can always adjust the volume with the test tones as long as the speakers have the similiar sonic character and voicing. Easier said than done, but I'm not interested in building the End-All-Be-All of HT set-ups, just something that I will enjoy for a few years.

If I use the L-36's, the logical choice would be to get a JBL 8" full range driver and mount it in the Fostex cabinet or find someone with a single L16 or L26 which will be a little more eye-appealing. The L36 is just too big to be used as a center anyways and would look really goofy :banghead:. I guess I could always build another set of Fostex's as mains, but I don't really want to go throught that hassle.

The other problem is that the only place where I can place the center is on top of the TV which is about 12" higher than where the L36's will be on stands (aka my kitchen chairs :applaud: ). I can't really lower the TV, not sure where the phantom signal will wind up, but I doubt it will be in center with where the center channel is.

The HK does have the ability to give LF information to any speaker I want, so the L36's would work fine if I want to run stereo.

Nightbrace
02-10-2006, 12:58 PM
Ok, I tried using the L36's as mains, they aren't too bad, but don't match up well with the fostex. So I do need a center channel. Any recommendations for an 8" full range JBL driver? Also, I noticed that there is a considerable amount of resonance in the 200-250Hz range, is there anyway to tune that out? I thought it was the HK at first, but its the same with my other amp. Would it be wise to add more insulation? Not that it matters too much for HT,. but the sound is rather impressive at higher frequencies. I think they'll work out fine.

eyedoc
02-10-2006, 03:21 PM
Hey Nightbrace.
I have a defferent opinion that may or may not make a difference. I only have one system for stereo and HT. Yes it is true that HT speakers make terrible stereo speakers, but I have found that good stereo speakers make GREAT HT speakers. My front mains are L100t3's. My center has switched from a basic JBL center to an L20t3 now to an L60t. Rears are L20t3. I really do not need a sub with this setup (although I have been thinking about one anyway...). If you have the room, I do not think that the L100tís are overkill. With the t/t3 series center and rear, there is no timber problems. Using the L20t3, a sub may be needed as the crossover for the center needs to be slightly higher, but the L60t laying on its side is full range and has no problem.

Hereís to confusing the issue with one more opinion.:bouncy:

Kevin.

PS, if you are interested in a road trip, I am in northeast Indiana, and if you want to bring your HK (that I have also been interested in), we may be able to give you a listen.

PPS, I guess I lied; I have a second pair of L100t3's in the other room as a room two from the same stereo system.

eyedoc
02-10-2006, 03:25 PM
PPPS, I have an extra pair of L20t3 that I was thinking of listing on the bay.

Nightbrace
02-10-2006, 08:35 PM
JBL speakers seem to be hitting me in ALL directions. I got an opportunity to get a set of L200B's now, he also has Altec 14's.

ATTN: Giskard

Ok, with price not being a deciding factor, but overall performance, what would you go for if you had to choose between a set of L100T's, L65 Jubals, L200B's, and Altec 14's., I know nothing about the Altec 14's, except I liked what I heard, but its been 6 months ago since I heard them. Thanks.

jim campbell
02-11-2006, 08:37 AM
for most movies i use separate stuff,but the availability of good music on dvd is starting to happen, ergo the main stereo for video use may be an option even for the purists among us.the L36's would probably sound great but instead of looking for a single i would look for a pair.it would be nice to have a plan b and if in future you get into 6 channel surround you would be all set.the shielding of the center unit may be an issue and i have small enough b+w's to sit on brackets on the wall.by getting them off the floor there is more room for subs,i use 2, and i find that it is less distracting to watch movies when the only visual is the screen.i agree that timbre matching is the thing and good luck with the L36's

4313B
02-11-2006, 08:58 AM
ATTN: Giskard

Ok, with price not being a deciding factor, but overall performance, what would you go for if you had to choose between a set of L100T's, L65 Jubals, L200B's, and Altec 14's., I know nothing about the Altec 14's, except I liked what I heard, but its been 6 months ago since I heard them. Thanks.At this point in my life I'm a bad one to ask. I'd hate to have any of those as my choices. Now 25 years ago they wouldn't have been so bad. For instance, the L65 was actually a real contender back in the late 70's. I even owned a pair into the early 80's. L200B's were never on even the 'long' list. I owned the 4331 for awhile which made any kind of L200 obsolete right out of the box. I never cared much for the L100T or L100t3, my interests were elsewhere, but many people do so it may be the crowd favorite here among your choices. No comment on the Altec 14.

Bottom line is, there really is no point in asking me. They were fun in their day and that day, while certainly fun to visit once in awhile, isn't where I want to be everyday. My opinion is of no value to you. You might hear an L65 or an Altec 14 and that could be the cat's meow to you and who's to argue?

Fred Sanford
02-11-2006, 09:14 AM
I'm in a similar situation, and will be trolling for advice soon. I'm looking to put together a surround room with at least some WAF. Newly-refinished 4333s as music playback and possible fronts for surround, and around the room I hope to cleverly integrate my four L46s. NHT sub rounds it off, although I also have a Velodyne that might work better. Here's the challenge- do I look for two more L46s (yes, I see that pair in Michigan on E-Bay) so I have 6.1 of all L46s, and leave the 4333s for just music? I know I'll be unhappy as sound travels left to right from 4333 to L46 to 4333. I also have a spare KEF center channel, if it sonically matches the L46s at all that may make it really easy.

Tough life, huh?

je

4313B
02-11-2006, 09:17 AM
I'm in a similar situation, and will be trolling for advice soon.

Tough life, huh? Yep, and I hope there are going to be plenty of people here who can help out. :)

hapy._.face
02-11-2006, 09:21 AM
Giskard-

...sounds like you are focusing on a newer array of things. And speaking of cat's meow..swap that avatar for a moment, please? c'mon- it cracks me up!! :p

Nightbrace
02-11-2006, 11:16 AM
Giskard, well what would you recommend in my price range? I am looking to spend no more than $500 for a pair of speakers for the Livingroom.

Titanium Dome
02-11-2006, 05:59 PM
The first thing I'd try is L46s all the way around, including the center. You can't match any better than that. Of course, they'd all be set to "small" during set up. The L46, as a fairly symmetrical two-way, might work well in center channel duty standing straight up if it physically fits in your installation.

If you get it positioned well, the panning across the front should be virtually seamless. Even if it's a bit lower than the L&R mains, a little upward tilt might get the sound to the sweet spot just fine.

Where did you plan to cross over to the sub?

Of course, that'll mean you need three L46s, but you could always buy four and keep a spare. I'm leery of you using the KEF Center, but of course if you try it and like it... Well, just get the L46 and try that, too. :yes:

rockecat
02-11-2006, 09:21 PM
We are also purchasing a new home theatre setup and have decided to purchase new component's as opposed to vintage gear. We are very lucky we have two seperate room's that satisfy our need's. Our two channel sytem is upstairs and we have a A/V room downstair's. We decided to go with new equipment for the A/V system and will be purchasing either JBL or Infinity product's mainly for the fact my JBL's have served me well for over 25years and the support from them is going to be around if I need it. I really don't think for us anything will ever replace the sound of a good two channel system but the new equipment should be able to produce current DVD mastering better.

I feel like I am rambling, and I guess what I am trying to say is we love our vintage gear and the sound but we also don't want to miss out on new possibilities.:)

Nightbrace
02-12-2006, 02:56 AM
swap that avatar for a moment, please? c'mon- it cracks me up!! :p

How so? Your Avatar scares me, did you get my PM?

Nightbrace
02-12-2006, 02:57 AM
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1143310408

Titanium Dome
02-12-2006, 03:17 AM
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1143310408


It's too expensive.

Nightbrace
02-12-2006, 03:30 AM
Oh I agree, but I thought the pics would help jog someone's memory, care to lend your 2 cents on these speakers?

Titanium Dome
02-12-2006, 04:24 AM
The XPL160 has wonderful midrange and highs, thanks to the Ti drivers. The 3" midrange is slightly agressive, but the crossover handles it pretty well.

Unfortunately, the 10" woofer is awkward. It doesn't really do low bass and it doesn't really excel IMO at the upper bass where it should be handing off to the midrange. Perhaps it's the midrange's aggresiveness, but I don't really hear the same problem in either the XPL140 or the XPL200. The 8" driver transitions much better to the 093Ti.

I use a pair of LE120H-1 based subs to support the low end of the XPL160 so the 10" driver doesn't have to stretch so far, but there's still that little bit of awkwardness between upper bass and midrange. I think these LE120H-1 subs working with the XPL140 would sound better. The 8" woofer is the key IMO.

Of course, the XPL200 has both a 12" driver and an 8" driver, so it's very nice if it's in good shape. There are two on eBay right now, and they're both overpriced. Even the less expensive one is overpriced given its poor condition, including damaged, dirty, and chipped cabinets, torn surrounds on the 12" driver, stained and ripped grilles, missing JBL badge, distorted midrange cones and surrounds, and a clearly damaged 093Ti. The carpet glued to the cabinet bottoms doesn't help either. The cabinet finish is absolutely ruined. I've seen and smelled them. You don't want 'em in your house unless you're a heavy smoker; your garage might be okay.

The gloss black ones in SF are much nicer, and with the DX-1 crossover are worth $1000 or more, but I wouldn't go above $1200.

Both sets are local pick up only, so they're a long way from you.

Nightbrace
02-12-2006, 05:00 AM
Hmm, thinking about maybe reviving my EN3's with those 3" mids (even though its a 5" cutout), :). I thought the LE5-6/8/10/12 was the end all be all (maybe I should rephrase it now as the End all of pre-1980 midrange drivers) That was until I heard the XPL160's mids. WOW!!

The set I audtioned was at a high-end audio shop called Good Vibez, they wanted $599 for them. Something seemed fishy as they were "returned", but how old are these now? The salesmen kept emphasizing their original price ($2300), and that they've been reduced from $999 to $599 and were on clearance. I don't see how they would have accepted a return on these, but they have been known to sell some older gear as trade-ins for newer stuff. I was really tempted to get them, but to me the bass was too muffled, I have L36's at home and I would describe the bass as almost identical, not that it wasn't appealing, but the Midrange just blew it away. And the highs kept on going, even a little bit too much for my tastes. It almost sounded like it was a crossover problem or just a poor amp decision. And I asked myself, it couldn't be the woofer could it? Why would JBL put a mid this good into a speaker with such a poor woofer? I immediately came home and read what you guys have thought and am really contemplating buying them, but what to do about the woofer problem? They are not horrible, but just not "Right" and I agree they were very awkward in the upper bass. Hopefully someone here can shed some light on what to do. I think I'm sold already, but before I commit 100%, I just would like to know what you guys think. I'm sure someone has come up with a solution as these speakers are REALLY special. A NIGHT and DAY difference when compared to even the best vintage JBL's I have heard. But unfortunately these speakers have the same vintage sounding woofers :(. I think swapping in a set of LE10H's would actually be an improvement, Argh,.

JBL came up with something really special with these mids, but it needs a woofer to match the detail, or a different crossover maybe? Would allowing the mids to go a bit lower help any?

I like those XPL200's a LOT, too pricey, but do they really need stands?

Think I'll be happier with the XPL140's for a smaller room with a good sub to supplement?, do they use the same mids and tweeters as the XPL160? It looks to be the case based on the pics.

Fred Sanford
02-12-2006, 06:01 AM
The first thing I'd try is L46s all the way around, including the center. You can't match any better than that. Of course, they'd all be set to "small" during set up. The L46, as a fairly symmetrical two-way, might work well in center channel duty standing straight up if it physically fits in your installation.

If you get it positioned well, the panning across the front should be virtually seamless. Even if it's a bit lower than the L&R mains, a little upward tilt might get the sound to the sweet spot just fine.

Where did you plan to cross over to the sub?

Of course, that'll mean you need three L46s, but you could always buy four and keep a spare. I'm leery of you using the KEF Center, but of course if you try it and like it... Well, just get the L46 and try that, too. :yes:

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I appreciate the advice- I already HAVE four L46s, that's what makes it so tempting. Buying another pair gives me 6.1, which is very tempting. :bouncy:

5.1 with the KEF center is free, though, so I'll have to at least try that first (I had used it in a Pro-Logic setup with Boston Acoustics, and remember liking it a lot). The physical shape, color & size of the KEF would make it easier to integrate near the TV. I agree with your entire post, and would play with sub xover points & locations until happy.

Thanks, I'll post results in my own future thread...

je

Titanium Dome
02-12-2006, 08:16 AM
The XPL line's average age would be around 16-18 years now.

As for a "drop in" substitute for the 127H-1, I need to clarify that the 127H-1 can be a good driver in the right circumstances, but this really is not the right circumstance. I think at one point Giskard suggests an LE10H variant...ah, here it is.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=38307&postcount=5

I have not seen any information outside of the SVA2100 tech sheet about the Stage10 10" woofer, but it's a heavy beast that runs from 30Hz (-6dB) to 1200Hz pretty easily in the SVA two-way application. That's a lot broader range than the 40Hz (-6dB) to 800Hz expected of the 127H-1 in the XPL160.