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lfh
02-01-2006, 03:02 PM
At the risk of making you guys green with envy :), I must share this:

A couple of weeks before Christmas a colleague of mine told me that some wooden horns were lying in the hallway in the basement of the office building. Being a 2397 and Westlake fan, I of course got carried away: "Hmmm... Wood. Could it possibly be... Nah, of course not..." Needless to say, I rushed down immediately to look at them and to find out what was going on. Maybe another audio company was moving in somewhere in the building?

To my great surprise four Westlake-style Smith horns with remainings of baffles from a soffit installation were carelessly threwn on top of a pile of junk (old CRT monitors, books in bad shape, a pair of slalom-skiing boots, ...)!

:jawdrop:

Obviously someone was moving out, and reflecting the way those things were handeled, it seemed likely they were about to be thrown away! Hence I called the janitor, and yes, he was cleaning out a store room that had belonged to a consultancy company that moved out years ago. Sure, I could take whatever I wanted, it would just make his life easier. Wow!

:banana:

So I carried the precious horns to our store at light-speed and started to examine them: Two of the baffles are partly covered with light veneer, and there are holes for tweeters below the horns, so I figured it should be possible to identify them. In any case there are not that many studios in Sweden that had Westlake/Eastlake designed rooms, in particular not with two such control rooms, so my thoughts went in a certain direction immediately...

:bouncy:

Rolf
02-01-2006, 03:09 PM
At the risk of making you guys green with envy :), I must share this:

A couple of weeks before Christmas a colleague of mine told me that some wooden horns were lying in the hallway in the basement of the office building. Being a 2397 and Westlake fan, I of course got carried away: "Hmmm... Wood. Could it possibly be... Nah, of course not..." Needless to say, I rushed down immediately to look at them and to find out what was going on. Maybe another audio company was moving in somewhere in the building?

To my great surprise four Westlake-style Smith horns with remainings of baffles from a soffit installation were carelessly threwn on top of a pile of junk (old CRT monitors, books in bad shape, a pair of slalom-skiing boots, ...)!

:jawdrop:

Obviously someone was moving out, and reflecting the way those things were handeled, it seemed likely they were about to be thrown away! Hence I called the janitor, and yes, he was cleaning out a store room that had belonged to a consultancy company that moved out years ago. Sure, I could take whatever I wanted, it would just make his life easier. Wow!

:banana:

So I carried the precious horns to our store at light-speed and started to examine them: Two of the baffles are partly covered with light veneer, and there are holes for tweeters below the horns, so I figured it should be possible to identify them. In any case there are not that many studios in Sweden that had Westlake/Eastlake designed rooms, in particular not with two such control rooms, so my thoughts went in a certain direction immediately...

:bouncy:

With humble regards to "the eldest".... I say this:
:useless:

lfh
02-01-2006, 03:10 PM
Here they are - covered with dust and cobweb, but beauuuuutiful:

lfh
02-01-2006, 03:20 PM
After googling for a while I finally found the pics I was looking for (there just had to be a few of them on-line):

Polar Studios, Studio A, 1978 (http://www.raffem.com/images/Abba5/studios7studioa.jpg)

Polar Studios, Studio B, 1978 (http://www.raffem.com/images/Abba5/studios11studiob.jpg)

More pics (http://www.raffem.com/1978.htm#9)

I don't think there's much doubt about it: The horns must come from the famous ABBA studio that was designed by Eastlake, and opened in 1978.

lfh
02-01-2006, 03:28 PM
Upon close inspection, it seems that the upper pair in my pic comes from Studio A (reflecting the color of veneer and the tweeter holes in close proximity to the horns), and the lower pair from Studio B (notice the remaining sector of the left side 15" driver hole, and the absence of hole for the tweeter immediately below the horn).

BTW, are those tweeters E-V T 35:s? :shock: (I'll check the mounting hole dimensions.)

norealtalent
02-01-2006, 03:40 PM
WONDERFUL SAVE!!!!...In order to continue being an LHS Member, I have decided that being jealous is not as bad as being envious:bouncy: ...

lfh
02-01-2006, 03:46 PM
Sadly, Polar Studios closed in the summer of 2004. Rumours had it that the new house owner raised the rent by a factor two... Adding this to the diminishing customer base the entire business sees due to the home recording boom, it was simply impossible to continue to run such a studio.

The web page is still on-line, though: Polar Studios Homepage (http://www.polarstudios.se/)

glen
02-01-2006, 03:52 PM
Looks like someone realized the horns were special when the sutio was being dismantled and, not-so-carefully, removed them from the rest of the cabinets to save them, and then later tossed them.

So glad they fell into good hands!

Titanium Dome
02-01-2006, 04:26 PM
Congratulations on a superb find. There is some justice in the universe, I always say.

:applaud:

Mr. Widget
02-01-2006, 04:26 PM
It is wonderful that someone who cares about these things found them instead of them going to the local landfill.

Now, it seems you will have a project on your hands.:applaud:

BTW, are those tweeters E-V T 35:s? :shock: (I'll check the mounting hole dimensions.)I'd bet that they were the bigger brother the T-350. The T-350 is actually a decent tweeter. It is a significant step up from the T-35/A.


Widget

pelly3s
02-01-2006, 07:23 PM
im with widget on the tweeters..... the T-350 is pretty sweet sound tweeter.

great find on the horns its rare for things like that to turn up.

lfh
02-02-2006, 11:59 AM
E-V tweeters

I'm not as shocked as I pretended. :) I was not aware of the T-350, but I've heard ST-350:s in PA applications and thought they were quite nice.


The new speaker project

To begin with it'll of course be very interesting to measure them (despite Mr. Widget's many excellent posts on the subject) and compare them to my 2397:s. In fact I happen to have a perfect application for them - possibly even better than having them in my living room: (Yes, it does make me think about the "justice in the universe"... :hmm: )

Our company is moving to a new office this summer, and we'll build a dedicated multichannel listening room from scratch. Now I'm trying to convince everybody that we need large format monitors as an alternative to the current Genelec 1030 (near field) setup. While being at it we might as well build a real L/C/R wall with flush mounted mains - right? :bouncy: I'll meet with the acoustics consultant (one of the top studio designers in our neck of the woods) next week and discuss this matter. I figure e.g. an MTM setup similar to this system (http://www.oceanstudiosburbank.com/test/Images/CR.jpg) (less the trick baffle design) could actually be realistic, both w.r.t. component costs and the number of (after work) hours needed for the design.

Fredrik

Mr. Widget
02-02-2006, 12:07 PM
I figure e.g. an MTM setup similar to this system (http://www.oceanstudiosburbank.com/test/Images/CR.jpg) could actually be realistic, both w.r.t. component costs and the number of (after work) hours needed for the design.I've been in that control room. Those are very nice all JBL custom monitors with added Tannoy super tweeters. They are not actually an MTM though. The dual 15" woofers are in a 2.5 way configuration similar to the 4435. The woofers are modified 2205As and 2215As. The mid driver is a 375 with a Be diaphragm.

Where did you get the photo?

Widget

Mr. Widget
02-02-2006, 12:13 PM
Here is a close up of one of the monitors... the designer told me that the stepped baffle trim detail was due more to aesthetics than any particular diffraction issue.

Widget

lfh
02-02-2006, 12:32 PM
I've been in that control room. Those are very nice all JBL custom monitors with added Tannoy super tweeters. They are not actually an MTM though. The dual 15" woofers are in a 2.5 way configuration similar to the 4435. The woofers are modified 2205As and 2215As. The mid driver is a 375 with a Be diaphragm.

Most interesting info - thanks! I took for granted they were MTM:s. I recall that you have posted a pic of them before. Yep, Be is on the wish-list...


Where did you get the photo?

It's posted at the studio's official site:

http://www.oceanstudiosburbank.com/test/gear.htm#
http://www.oceanstudiosburbank.com/test/clientphotos.htm

The studio seems to be an incredible place, with the rebuilt monster Neve console, a pair of Kinoshitas in the live room (maybe they ditched them for the JBL:s?) etc.

glen
02-02-2006, 01:57 PM
... the designer told me that the stepped baffle trim detail was due more to aesthetics than any particular diffraction issue.

Widget

Did the designer say what those big orange cabs behind the drumkit were for?
Don't think I've seen those kind of monitors before.

Mr. Widget
02-02-2006, 03:36 PM
They weren't there the day I was at the studio... they may have been brought in for a session?


Widget

Earl K
02-02-2006, 05:06 PM
THESE ! (http://www.reyaudio.com/warp-e.html) are the orange monitors in the background .


:)

Guido
02-03-2006, 03:40 AM
The mid driver is a 375 with a Be diaphragm.
Widget

Widget, I would like to bring this up again. It was discussed in another thread and I already try to get an answer from this chinese Be Diaphragm supplier. Until now without success.

http://www.xkoncord.com/big5/list04.htm

Ok, maybe this company only sell to wholesalers but where are these wholesalers? Didn't you once tried to track them down?

caladois
02-03-2006, 08:55 AM
It looks like Rey audio products (Kinoshita Japan) using TAD and Davis speakers.
Very nice.
stephane

lfh
02-03-2006, 09:44 AM
The Kinoshita monitors certainly belong to the most exclusive segment of monitors, and is the brand used by Tom Hidley.

Here's an example of a (relatively) recent Hidley room: Bop Studios (http://www.rast-architects.com/01_2/a_pages_030701/d_portf001_view001.html)

lfh
02-03-2006, 10:06 AM
I already try to get an answer from this chinese Be Diaphragm supplier. Until now without success.


The GF of a friend of mine has just moved to China for a one year assignment in Beijing. Once she's settled, we could ask her to contact them locally. (She's used to our crazy audio and car projects :) )

glen
02-03-2006, 10:16 AM
It looks like Rey audio products (Kinoshita Japan) using TAD and Davis speakers.
Very nice.
stephane

You got it, they look to me like the Warp-7, very high end monitors to leave sitting around on the floor.

here's more info:
http://www.reyaudio.com/warp-e.html

and here's a pic of them in place at AVATAR-Studio D, New York in 1999:
WARP-7, KM1V, HQS4200UPM

Mr. Widget
02-03-2006, 10:17 AM
Widget, I would like to bring this up again. It was discussed in another thread and I already try to get an answer from this chinese Be Diaphragm supplier. Until now without success.

http://www.xkoncord.com/big5/list04.htm

Ok, maybe this company only sell to wholesalers but where are these wholesalers? Didn't you once tried to track them down?I did... I made a few inquiries and then failed to follow through with my last lead. I am not currently in need of them so the incentive was a bit low to place this high on the priority list.

Try the Chinese route directly. Good luck and keep us posted.


Widget

lfh
02-08-2006, 03:03 PM
Today we had the first meeting with the studio designer. I had sent him a rough spec of the listening room, but I had not stated what mains we had in mind. Knowing that he works alot with Genelec these days, I was curious about his reaction to the proposed old-school approach. I showed him the pic of the horns I've posted here, and he immediately recognized them. This is no big surprise per se, since he's been designing and tuning studios since the 70:s and must have visited Polar many times, but the funny part is that he was the one that bought them, and later auctioned them off! He might still have info on the old monitors in his archive, like crossover schematics, frequency plots etc.

There was no time to discuss monitor design in detail this time around, but I think he got quite enthusiastic about this route. For example he showed us some measurements of a room he has worked on recently that has a typical 2x15"+2" TAD system, with a digital crossover and ditto EQ.

So far so good. Next step is to check with the CFO and CEO how crazy we may get with the floating floor and walls, diffusors, absorbers, bass traps, speaker components and electronics... :bouncy:

Fredrik

mikebake
02-08-2006, 03:41 PM
You got it, they look to me like the Warp-7, very high end monitors to leave sitting around on the floor.

here's more info:
http://www.reyaudio.com/warp-e.html

and here's a pic of them in place at AVATAR-Studio D, New York in 1999:
WARP-7, KM1V, HQS4200UPM

Thanks for the info; I just ordered a pair.

mikebake
02-08-2006, 03:46 PM
Shit, after I give them my credit card I find THIS! (no more WARP 7 in Studio D; Westlake gets the nod. I wonder if I can get my money back...)


AVATAR REFITS STUDIO D
SSL-9072J and Westlake BBSM-15 Integral in Redesign


NEW YORK — AVATAR Studios, New York's premier tracking and mixing facility, is proud to announce the completion of its redesigned 'D' studio. One of the four main studios, 'D' took three months to refit and now boasts AVATAR's second SSL-9000 series console and Westlake BBSM-15 monitors.


Acoustically and architecturally, AVATAR's Chief Engineer Ken Bailey had the challenge of "tightening" up the room in an attempt to make it more listening and worker friendly. "We want this room to be an overdub/mix room and that's what we set out to achieve," explains Bailey. Major reconstruction and acoustic treatment of the entire front wall including soffit mounted Westlake BBSM-15 speakers done by long time in-house carpenter Vinny Sofia. Bailey explains that the back wall was moved in and "a combination of acoustic treatments and calculated construction were used to provide proper low frequency 'trapping,' something this room really needed. Vinny also gave the room a new visual by using a very slick black stain on all the woodwork. It's a whole new world."


The Westlake BBSM-15's which were chosen as Studio D's main monitors are a 3-way design incorporating dual 15" high performance woofers, 10" midbass drivers and 1" compression tweeters. The soffit mounted monitors are being bi-amplified via the systems internal passive high level crossover with amplification from a single Crown MacroTech for the low frequency and a pair of Bryston 7B monoblocks for the mid and high frequencies.

spkrman57
02-08-2006, 03:50 PM
Thanks for sharing with us!

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Ron

lfh
05-01-2007, 12:21 PM
So far so good. Next step is to check with the CFO and CEO how crazy we may get with the floating floor and walls, diffusors, absorbers, bass traps, speaker components and electronics... :bouncy:


For now, letīs say we got quite crazy ;) (More on this later)

On request, find below a pic of the rear, showing the old style mounting surface (i.e. no 2328 throat used).

lfh
05-01-2007, 12:26 PM
Someone was hell bent those part should never come apart (lots of screws, nails, glue and silicone used).

lfh
05-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Note the tape residual below the horn: Probably a mix engineer or room tuner decided to absorb some HF that might have hit the horn.

lfh
05-01-2007, 12:33 PM
Poor little monitor, donīt cry, soon youīll be well and shake some booty again :)

lfh
05-01-2007, 12:42 PM
The long term plan is to rebuild those monitors. Whatīs left of the baffle gives many hints on driver localization and type (the cat eye is only there for the show). Of course Iīll keep the baffle as a "certificate of authenticity".

The short term plan (ongoing) is to build Q&D Modular Mains (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16046). Iīll update this thread whenever I have reliable technical info about the original incarnation of the speakers to share.

grumpy
05-01-2007, 01:21 PM
Dude.... get it right: ;)

hjames
05-01-2007, 01:41 PM
Hey - wasn't he on MST3k (http://www.mst3kinfo.com/)


Dude.... get it right: ;)

lfh
05-01-2007, 02:21 PM
Dude.... get it right: ;)

:rotfl:

lfh
05-27-2007, 06:31 PM
I bet they started out as TM-1 style monitors and were modified later on!

First look at the pic from the inauguration (original link) (http://www.raffem.com/images/Abba3/Polar%20Studio%20opening%2025%20mei%201978.jpg). Even though the pic is small, it's clear that there are no EV T-350:s below the horns at this time. Instead it looks like it's the standard round opening of the time for a 1" driver.

lfh
05-27-2007, 06:41 PM
Then look at the rear-side of the baffle in a previous post of mine:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=166270&postcount=30

There's a large round hole half way through the baffle (just below the wooden horn). This arrangement seems unnecessary for just mounting a T-350, but it makes sense when mounting a 2420 like this:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=154483&postcount=9

Also note that the hole is partly covered by the horizontal piece of wood -- further evidence that the monitors have been modified.

lfh
05-27-2007, 06:49 PM
Next look at the front-side of the baffle (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=166271&postcount=31). There are two sets of radiuses for woofers that are not coincident; one in the horizontal wood beam with a large c/c distance, the other (only one is visible to the right) with a smaller c/c distance. The centers for the latter pair are located well within the wooden horn edges, just as is the case for TM-x.

lfh
05-27-2007, 07:06 PM
Below is a comparision between the presumed original configuration and the later incarnations of the monitors (control room A and B shown). It looks like the mid is an 8" driver and not a 10" as in my above "reconstruction".

lfh
05-27-2007, 07:17 PM
Yep, the T-350 is 7-1/4" wide (I'll compare the mounting holes to those of the baffle ASAP):

T-350 spec, part 1 (http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_images/T-350_1.gif)

T-350 spec, part 2 (http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_images/T-350_2.gif)

Edit:

Guess where Google found the data sheets: At Romy the Cat's site...

lfh
05-27-2007, 07:50 PM
It looks like it could be 2110:s:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-comp/2110.htm


AFAICT this was primarily a SR driver, but judging from old DIY magazine articles, the 2110 was popular with the Hi-Fi crowd in Sweden back in the days.

Tim Rinkerman
05-28-2007, 12:18 PM
MST-3K.......the only other initials as close to my heart as JBL...:rolleyes:

Machineghost
12-18-2009, 12:09 AM
It is great that you were able to salvage these historic "parts"!

I am unashamedly a huge ABBA fan and appreciate their artistic work and the technical work of Michael B Tretow.

Apparently when they worked on THE VISITORS album, first album to be recorded digitally on the new 3M Digital System, Michael B remarked that the digital recordings where giving the monitor system a thrashing. Well, listen to "The Day Before You Came" and you will hear what he refers to.