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Rstar
01-28-2006, 03:45 PM
Hello,
First time to the Forum! Happy to find such a place so that I could ask a question about a D130F speaker I aquired for my '67 Fender Showman amp a few years ago.
Most JBL guitar speakers I knew about back in the '60's and '70's were all 8 ohms. Does anyone know what Fender amp this 16ohm version speaker could have come out of originally? Having an "F" after the D130 means it was from a Fender amp, right?
My amp's output has an 8ohm output transformer. Regardless, it sounds great!
Also, I've heard the s/n does not tell you much about its age. Is this true?

Thanks in advance for any information you could give me to trace its possible origins!

edgewound
01-28-2006, 04:28 PM
Hello,
First time to the Forum! Happy to find such a place so that I could ask a question about a D130F speaker I aquired for my '67 Fender Showman amp a few years ago.
Most JBL guitar speakers I knew about back in the '60's and '70's were all 8 ohms. Does anyone know what Fender amp this 16ohm version speaker could have come out of originally? Having an "F" after the D130 means it was from a Fender amp, right?
My amp's output has an 8ohm output transformer. Regardless, it sounds great!
Also, I've heard the s/n does not tell you much about its age. Is this true?

Thanks in advance for any information you could give me to trace its possible origins!

If in fact it came out of a Fender amp in the first place, my guess would be a Dual Showman....2x D130F for an 8 ohm load. JBL offered the "F" designation for the D120, D130 and D140, which was a new model for bass guitar and keyboards,to signify that it was modified to be suitable for musical instrument duty...and these were influenced by Fender. Had a slightly wider gap,.057in vs. .053in, to allow for speaker torqued too tight on warped baffles and increased voice coil rock and tilt from the transients of guitars, bass, etc....and had the "goop" applied to make the surrounds more durable in weather. The D120F was the equivalent of a D131 that was for hifi, and became a new model for musical amp use .

My response is a little out of order as I remebered details...forgive me. The serial numbers....you're right....they can sometimes follow no rhyme or reason, I'm sure somebody knows more about this. I think alot of historical factory documentation were lost in the Northridge earthquake.

Hope this helps:)

Rstar
01-29-2006, 06:13 AM
Edgewound,

Thanks for your reply, however, I forgot to mention that the Fender Showmans came in two versions. The Dual which had two D130's 15" speakers had a 4 ohm output transformer. The Single which had one D130 15" speakers had an 8 ohm output transformer. The 8 ohm speakers would have met the requirements of either Showman version rendering two in parallel for 4 ohms for the Dual and the 8 ohms for the Single. My 16 ohm speaker does not meet any of these configuration requirements, hence, I don't think it came out of a Showman. If this speaker did not have an "F" in the model number I would wonder if it came out of a PA or HiFi. But with the "F" designation I guess it is still a mystery to me where this came from. I will add that when measured with an ohm meter the speaker does read around 7 ohms. Does this tell you anything? Were impedance stamping on the speakers back then well managed and is this really an 8 ohm speaker? Or were "F" speaker found in other applications back then?
Thanks again!

edgewound
01-29-2006, 12:15 PM
Edgewound,

My 16 ohm speaker does not meet any of these configuration requirements, hence, I don't think it came out of a Showman. If this speaker did not have an "F" in the model number I would wonder if it came out of a PA or HiFi. But with the "F" designation I guess it is still a mystery to me where this came from. I will add that when measured with an ohm meter the speaker does read around 7 ohms. Does this tell you anything? Were impedance stamping on the speakers back then well managed and is this really an 8 ohm speaker? Or were "F" speaker found in other applications back then?
Thanks again!

Rstar,

That's why I said, "If in fact..." because JBL offered these in their own product lineup specifically for musical intsruments...I have vintage brochures that say so, and this site probably does too. Some JBL's of that vintage say "8-16 ohm" impedance, so impedence ratings can be confounding. Only the speaker knows where it really came from. Maybe it was or wasn't OEM. Usually OEM Fender JBL's would have a Fender/JBL label but it I think that was later in the relationship. A non "F" speaker would have come from the hifi lineup and would have been someones' aftermarket addition. The "F" designation means it is a musical instrument speaker that was influenced by Fender Musical Instruments, Fullerton, California.

Check out this page:http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1964/page42.jpg

Rstar
01-31-2006, 07:58 PM
Edgewound,

Thanks for clarifying this issue for me. I appreciate your feedback.

edgewound
02-01-2006, 01:27 PM
Edgewound,

Thanks for clarifying this issue for me. I appreciate your feedback.

You are most welcome, sir:)

Harvey Gerst
02-03-2006, 06:47 AM
Rstar,

That's why I said, "If in fact..." because JBL offered these in their own product lineup specifically for musical intsruments...I have vintage brochures that say so, and this site probably does too. Some JBL's of that vintage say "8-16 ohm" impedance, so impedence ratings can be confounding. Only the speaker knows where it really came from. Maybe it was or wasn't OEM. Usually OEM Fender JBL's would have a Fender/JBL label but it I think that was later in the relationship. A non "F" speaker would have come from the hifi lineup and would have been someones' aftermarket addition. The "F" designation means it is a musical instrument speaker that was influenced by Fender Musical Instruments, Fullerton, California.

Check out this page:http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1964/page42.jpg
This is very weird to me because the "F" designation only came after the introduction of the D110F, the D120F, the D130F, and the D140F; at least that's how I remember it. As far as "Fender influenced", that part is just not true, except that we were getting a lot of burned out speakers from Fender and as a result, I proposed the "F" series to Bill Thomas to eliminate this and increase business in the MI market.

As far as impedance vs. DC resistance went, a new 16 ohm speaker had a DC resistance of about 11 ohms. A new 8 ohm speaker had a DC resistance of about 6 ohms.

edgewound
02-03-2006, 07:14 AM
This is very weird to me because the "F" designation only came after the introduction of the D110F, the D120F, the D130F, and the D140F; at least that's how I remember it. As far as "Fender influenced", that part is just not true, except that we were getting a lot of burned out speakers from Fender and as a result, I proposed the "F" series to Bill Thomas to eliminate this and increase business in the MI market.

As far as impedance vs. DC resistance went, a new 16 ohm speaker had a DC resistance of about 11 ohms. A new 8 ohm speaker had a DC resistance of about 6 ohms.

Mr. Gerst,
Thank you for clarifying that issue. My apologies for spreading mis-information:o: . Although there is some confusion as to why some speakers are marked 8-16 ohms.

With all due respect, it does seem to imply, though, that the number of burned out speakers coming from Fender did in fact influence that "F" designation, whether that was by design or not... and that a good many, if not the majority of users has understood it this way.

Harvey Gerst
02-03-2006, 09:10 PM
Mr. Gerst,
Thank you for clarifying that issue. My apologies for spreading mis-information:o: . Although there is some confusion as to why some speakers are marked 8-16 ohms.

We didn't think it made a whole hell of a lot of difference with guitar amps.

And it's Harvey, not "Mr.Gerst". Like John Edwards was never "John Edwards"; it was Johnny Edwards.


With all due respect, it does seem to imply, though, that the number of burned out speakers coming from Fender did in fact influence that "F" designation, whether that was by design or not... and that a good many, if not the majority of users has understood it this way.
You hafta understand that I was the only guitar player at JBL at the time. It was a twofold idea; one, to make them more idiot-proof, and two, to really have a line of speakers designed for MI.

edgewound
02-03-2006, 09:34 PM
We didn't think it made a whole hell of a lot of difference with guitar amps.

And it's Harvey, not "Mr.Gerst". Like John Edwards was never "John Edwards"; it was Johnny Edwards.


You hafta understand that I was the only guitar player at JBL at the time. It was a twofold idea; one, to make them more idiot-proof, and two, to really have a line of speakers designed for MI.

Thanks again, Harvey. It's great to learn the real facts from the man that actually did it. You're the reason I use an E120 today....and it friggin, rocks, screams, whispers, crunches, sings....whatever I want it to do... it will do. It's a shame it's been discontinued. Eminence is trying to copy it...I saw it and played thru it at NAMM....:barf: Need I say more? Not even close.

jrc
03-01-2006, 08:21 AM
hello guys,
I am looking at buying a d131. The seller states and picture confirms that it is 16ohms.
The seller states that the DC Resistance measures 6.5 ohms.
That tells me it is an 8 ohm. Isn't a 16 ohm d131 spec out at 11 ohms ( at least that is stated here )
So I guess someone put a16 ohm faceplate on it, or are there any other possibilties ?

thanks ... jrc

Harvey Gerst
03-02-2006, 10:35 AM
hello guys,
I am looking at buying a d131. The seller states and picture confirms that it is 16ohms.
The seller states that the DC Resistance measures 6.5 ohms.
That tells me it is an 8 ohm. Isn't a 16 ohm d131 spec out at 11 ohms ( at least that is stated here )
So I guess someone put a16 ohm faceplate on it, or are there any other possibilties ?

thanks ... jrc
Okay, the real truth is that back then, JBL 16 ohm speakers were really 8 ohms, and the 32 ohm speakers were really 16 ohms. Why did we do that? Because that made them louder.