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View Full Version : Newbie with L212 / 112A needs big help!



hapy._.face
01-15-2006, 07:42 AM
Hey all. I acquired a pair of L212 speakers and the "ultrabass" sub was not with them. I immediately thought I would try to find a replacement one (that was a dead end!). However, after reading some of the postings- I gather they weren't exactly the best performers. My questions is: What do I use?? Do I build something from scratch (?) or is there an excellent sub out there already which pairs nicely with the L212 set?

Another thing- the 112A drivers need the surrounds replaced. I know these drivers are excellent- and well worth the effort to repair. However- are the completed L212 speakers even worth the effort? How do the L212 speakers compare with current technology? My current set up is a simple pair of SET monos, totem monitors, and rega playback. I use headphones a lot- but (despite my scaled down system) I love music with a lot of dynamic punch (rock & pop). Will my L212 set up deliver the goods (with proper amplification, of course)??

Any and all help /advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)

hapy._.face
01-15-2006, 08:45 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_d7548f28.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d7548f28.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_dc4d454f.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/dc4d454f.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_f2dbdcb9.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/f2dbdcb9.jpg)

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(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/f2dbdcb9.jpg)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_6fd54be5.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/6fd54be5.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_d0f60067.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d0f60067.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_d39aa2c0.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d39aa2c0.jpg)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_30e8f480.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d0f60067.jpg)

Here are pics of my L212 Speakers. Again any help is greatly appreciated. I am finding limitied info on the web....although I did find a reprint of the instruction manual and spec sheets. :)



(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d39aa2c0.jpg)

[url="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d7548f28.jpg"] (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/30e8f480.jpg)

LE15-Thumper
01-15-2006, 08:50 AM
Maybe Giskard could chime in on this one.....He is one of our resident L212 owner/experts.

LE15-Thumper
01-15-2006, 08:55 AM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_d7548f28.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d7548f28.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_dc4d454f.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/dc4d454f.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_f2dbdcb9.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/f2dbdcb9.jpg)





http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_6fd54be5.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/6fd54be5.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_d0f60067.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d0f60067.jpg) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_d39aa2c0.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/d39aa2c0.jpg)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/th_30e8f480.jpg (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/ameristalgia/JBL%20L212%20Project/30e8f480.jpg)

Here are pics of my L212 Speakers. Again any help is greatly appreciated. I am finding limitied info on the web....although I did find a reprint of the instruction manual and spec sheets. :)















They look like crap and you should take my generous offer of $100.00 :deal: for them before I change my mind . :bs:

But seriously.....As we say in Canada, (when playing the USA) He shoots, he scores !!! Nice score !!!

hapy._.face
01-15-2006, 09:55 AM
Thanks! I hate to say it, but I will:

I paid $50 for them at a thrift store. Yesterday. I'm happy. Now if I could just get 'em up and running-I might stop staring and salivating. Perhaps they sound like garbage...I dunno.

4313B
01-15-2006, 09:58 AM
They appear original to me. I'd refoam the eights and listen to them.

I'm not going to go into everything that is wrong with the B212, suffice it to say that, in stock form, it is challenged by today's program sources.

MJC
01-15-2006, 10:17 AM
Orange County Speaker can do the surrounds on the 112As, as long as the cones don't need to be replaced, being the cones are no longer available.
Any good quality sub will do. The main thing wrong with the B212 is only having 75 watts.
If you could talk someone out of a pair of sub1500s, they would be great with the L212s. I'm using two of them, but I also have a stock B212 and a rebuilt one that are connected to the main L/R L212s. The sub1500s do the rest of the 7 channel bass.

hapy._.face
01-15-2006, 11:19 AM
They appear original to me. I'd refoam the eights and listen to them.
I'm not going to go into everything that is wrong with the B212, suffice it to say that, in stock form, it is challenged by today's program sources.

Thanks for the postings!!


OK. (In Re:) That seems consisitant with the information I was getting. So (in your opinion, which is already a loaded question) does the rest of the L212 system (the midbass and all upper portions of the range) ante up to the challenges of today's program material?

Let's say I have a SACD on with outstanding imaging and dynamics; My amplification is valve and perfect (KT88s); and all other aspects of the audio reproduction are more than capable of doing thier part:
Will the L212's stick out like a sore thumb? Or will they juice up like I hope they will? I know , I know- gotta "listen" to em , right? lol. I'm just contemplating on selling vs keeping.

My buddy has a pair of maggies with the JBL 1500 sub aforementioned- dynamite! He uses a Bryston amp (for the sub) and has the same CD transport I do. sick. very sick. He's laughing at these L212s- cautioning they aren't worth my time to fix. He says I should part em out because the 112A is still in demand. 'The parts are worth more than the sum'. Anyone agree??

4313B
01-15-2006, 11:56 AM
"does the rest of the L212 system (the midbass and all upper portions of the range) ante up to the challenges of today's program material?"

They do well enough.

"Will the L212's stick out like a sore thumb?"

They tend to cause the rest of the audio chain to stick out like a sore thumb. Garbage in, garbage out.

"He's laughing at these L212s"

They rank as being pretty important in the overall scheme of everything that has become JBL.

"cautioning they aren't worth my time to fix"

They may very well not be. You're either fired up to give them a try or you're not. Refoams are cake. You paid $50 for these. Fix them and draw your own conclusion.

"He says I should part em out because the 112A is still in demand."

By who and for what?

"'The parts are worth more than the sum'. Anyone agree??"

Pointless question here. Plenty of people are still listening to other JBL's such as L100's and Hartsfields. Does your friend with the fagnepans know you paid $50 for these? And he's still saying they aren't worth $50 more to get them functional?

The L212 really was a nice system. A little shy in the midrange according to some traditional JBL listeners and alot of people (Dealer's included) simply didn't know what to do with that third little cube back then. The designer had issues with the mass ring smacking the pole piece, that seemed to be his biggest gripe about it. It was also a source of warranty claims. He also said the 121A/121H had terrific transient response. I have two and tend to agree. I found that an amplifer with high current capability was required to keep that 4-inch voice coil doing what I wanted it to do instead of what it wanted to do.

The PT800 is the modern "equivalent" and I think it sounds better.

4313B
01-15-2006, 12:06 PM
They look like crap and you should take my generous offer of $100.00 :deal: for them before I change my mind.I'd like to see him double his money and sell you them for $100.

Seriously.

Do you have any 121H's around? If not, I do. Or you can use your SUB1500's.

hapy._.face
01-15-2006, 01:12 PM
Hey- believe me: No one wants to have these babies perform as badly as I do. I just want to do it right. If they are great speakers- I want to do them proper justice. Nothing worse than an unfair shake.

My uncle had vintage JBLs in his system, and even though I'm going on memory- nothing has given me the impact, the sheer slam, and exitement those guys had. I don't know what they were (he's long since dead now), but it changed the way I felt about music, and has guided my senses ever since. Those JBLs will always be an internal sound ref forever.

And, for the record- I never said the maggies (by themselves) sounded so great- it was the JBL subs that did most of the talkin'!! ;)



I'm taking the adice on fixing the 112As, and I plan to ship em off asap. In the meantime- anyone got a nice pair of subs (already mounted) for use with the L212s? I want to be ready for audtion when the 112s drivers return.

I'm also gonna spike the feet properly because the cables I plan to use wont fit under those goofy little plastic nubs. Speaking of cables- anyone ever use braided cat5 for speaker wires? They are amazing, cheap, and I highly recommend. I can send a link for an online "how-to" if anyone is interested.

Again, thanks for all the info- and help me find a nice pair of subs. Don't worry, I know I wont get as good of a deal on those ($50)...

norealtalent
01-15-2006, 01:34 PM
Partial
"fagnepans"
:applaud: :rotfl: :applaud: :rotfl: :applaud:

sfellini
01-15-2006, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Giskard
"fagnepans"

:applaud: :rotfl: :applaud: :rotfl: :applaud:

I, for one, am tired of his fag bashing.

MJC
01-16-2006, 05:15 PM
Thanks for the postings!!


OK. (In Re:) That seems consisitant with the information I was getting. So (in your opinion, which is already a loaded question) does the rest of the L212 system (the midbass and all upper portions of the range) ante up to the challenges of today's program material?

Let's say I have a SACD on with outstanding imaging and dynamics; My amplification is valve and perfect (KT88s); and all other aspects of the audio reproduction are more than capable of doing thier part:
Will the L212's stick out like a sore thumb? Or will they juice up like I hope they will? I know , I know- gotta "listen" to em , right? lol. I'm just contemplating on selling vs keeping.

My buddy has a pair of maggies with the JBL 1500 sub aforementioned- dynamite! He uses a Bryston amp (for the sub) and has the same CD transport I do. sick. very sick. He's laughing at these L212s- cautioning they aren't worth my time to fix. He says I should part em out because the 112A is still in demand. 'The parts are worth more than the sum'. Anyone agree??

I'll jump in here again, The L212 is a GREAT system. Of all the JBLs I've heard(and there are a lot I haven't), only the L250/250Ti is better. I don't know about the 240Ti, have never heard them.
I'm using 7 L212s, and two sub1500s for both music and HT. And I haven't broke down and bought any PS because I'm not sure they would be any better. The PS is one of those JBLs I haven't heard.
If you upgrade the L212 xover with bypass caps they will be more dynamic, I've done this with the 3 front L212s I've built. I'll put my system against any other up to a dollar value of at least $10k.
The 112A/H by its self makes the L212 system better than 95% of any other HT system now available and will still be better at playing music.

As for what your buddy has to say, we all have different hearing, outcome, different strokes for different folks.

MJC
01-16-2006, 05:56 PM
"
fagnepans.

I like it, any that don't, well I guess we know what you are.

4313B
01-16-2006, 07:12 PM
The 112A/H by its self makes the L212 system better than 95% of any other HT system now available and will still be better at playing music.Nice powerful motor sporting a 3-inch edgewound copper ribbon voice coil and smooth frequency response from 90 Hz to 3 kHz (usable response in a 0.4 cubic foot sealed volume to 70 Hz). One of the finest 8-inch transducers JBL ever made. Seven of them in surround must be stunning.

hapy._.face
01-16-2006, 08:41 PM
Who do I get to mod the crossovers (do I trade off accuracy for dynamics??) and repair the 112As the proper way? Also, help me put together a pair of subs to mate these with? I'm east coast- DC/Baltimore. Anyone? Cash+Beer

It's no secret I was taking offers; I'm thinking I may keep em- especially after hearing them.

I'm a fan of the earlier STASIS circuit based amps put out by Threshold/Accurus and I hope this amp will be a good match for the L212.

hjames
01-17-2006, 04:10 AM
Actually, I take offense to that comment - its arrogant, ignorant and just unnecessary. We're here about a hobby of sound - and such divisive comments are unwarranted. Surely your vocabulary is wide enough that you can find some other way to insult magneplanars and speakers you don't like ...


I like it, any that don't, well I guess we know what you are.

[QUOTE=Giskard] Does your friend with the fagnepans know you paid $50 for these?

4313B
01-17-2006, 05:35 AM
<yawn>

sfellini
01-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I like it, any that don't, well I guess we know what you are.

Dude,

That is so, like, 5th grade.

MJC
01-17-2006, 04:33 PM
Nice powerful motor sporting a 3-inch edgewound copper ribbon voice coil and smooth frequency response from 90 Hz to 3 kHz (usable response in a 0.4 cubic foot sealed volume to 70 Hz). One of the finest 8-inch transducers JBL ever made. Seven of them in surround must be stunning.

YES, they are stunning. I tell people that have heard this system that all the bass they're listening too isn't just from the subs.
From what I've read elsewhere, the voice coil and magnet were really designed for a 12" woofer. No wonder its my favorite 8" driver.

As for the mid-range lacking, I would have to say, using the 2105 instead of the LE5-9, as I do in the front 3, is a fair improvement. Not the least of which is the fact that the 2105 has more power handling capabilities than the LE5-9.

MJC
01-17-2006, 04:37 PM
[QUOTE=hjames]Actually, I take offense to that comment - its arrogant, ignorant and just unnecessary. We're here about a hobby of sound - and such divisive comments are unwarranted. Surely your vocabulary is wide enough that you can find some other way to insult magneplanars and speakers you don't like ...

I take offense to some arrogant yuppie, who thinks electrostatic speakers are be all to end all, and then tells a "friend", that the L212 system he just bought wasn't worth the $50 he paid.

I don't care what you don't like, or take offense to.
This ol Green Beret has spoken!

hapy._.face
01-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Thanks, John! I'm learning a lot! Did you do any crossover mods with that swap?

MJC
01-17-2006, 04:59 PM
Thanks, John! I'm learning a lot! Did you do any crossover mods with that swap?

The 2105 is the JBL Pro equivalent of the LE5-9 as far as sonic timbre goes.
I built the original xovers, but added .01 uf caps that go in parallel to the larger caps for each of the 3 drivers, which was a suggestion of Giskard, as was building the main L/R in mirror image, as are the 240Ti and 250Ti.
The mirror image produces a much better soundstage.:)

Of coarse, one could build biased networks, using 9 volt batteries, and twice the caps, but as Giskard knows, that's a lot of work and cash.

Mr. Widget
01-17-2006, 05:03 PM
Widget

hapy._.face
01-17-2006, 05:18 PM
Hey John.

Again, thanks! So it seems the modifications are pretty universal- must be something to that...I may end up doing something of the same. Not sure what you mean when you say mirroring the L/R. The speakers already look symmetric to me- what am I mising, here?
Another thing- am I the only one that finds the bases to be distracting? I like the shape (aesthetically speaking), but it seems to contribute NOTHING from a sonic/functionality standpoint. Is it sacreligious to fantisize about removing them (for safe keeping) and replacing them with homebrew concrete form bases?? And what's with those silly little plastic feet? I just GOTTA get some better isolation out of em. Agree?? I'd also love to change the grill cloth. I'd like to build another grill cloth cover from scratch (set aside the original) and put something more acoustically transparent on it. Anyone else done this sort of thing for the L212's?? Am I banned yet??

MJC
01-17-2006, 06:58 PM
Again, thanks! So it seems the modifications are pretty universal- must be something to that...I may end up doing something of the same. Not sure what you mean when you say mirroring the L/R. The speakers already look symmetric to me- what am I mising, here?

Click on link below to see a mirror imaged L212, notice how the drivers are offset from center. The other is just opposite.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4460



Another thing- am I the only one that finds the bases to be distracting? I like the shape (aesthetically speaking), but it seems to contribute NOTHING from a sonic/functionality standpoint.

What the base contributes is setting the 066 to the proper elevation, which is ear elevation, when seated



I just GOTTA get some better isolation out of em. Agree?? I'd also love to change the grill cloth. I'd like to build another grill cloth cover from scratch (set aside the original) and put something more acoustically transparent on it. Anyone else done this sort of thing for the L212's?? Am I banned yet??


Actually, I'd like to get some more of it. I just bought some guitar speaker grille from parts express. Its not cloth, its fiberglass weave or whatever. Its as close as i have found to date. It all right, but not the same.

jarrods
01-17-2006, 10:27 PM
I, for one, am tired of his fag bashing.

Yeah gets a bit lame for real fags like myself; especially considering this is a forum about loudspeakers with specific rules against personal insults.

“You are not allowed to make personal attacks. Ad hominem attacks and name calling will not be tolerated.” Don McRitchie


But then you get comments such as what Rusnzha writes in thread #8221.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81549&postcount=29

"I get some perverse pleasure from mocking this weenie, but I'm going with some of the better minds here and put this stupid turd burgler on my ignore list so I don't see his funky picture or read his dreck."

Funny thing my PM to Don (more than one month ago) highlighting this was just ignored.

cheers,
Jarrod
Whose life partner loves massive, loud, intrusive JBL speakers in our lounge room.:D

Ian Mackenzie
01-18-2006, 02:07 AM
Actually, I take offense to that comment - its arrogant, ignorant and just unnecessary. We're here about a hobby of sound - and such divisive comments are unwarranted. Surely your vocabulary is wide enough that you can find some other way to insult magneplanars and speakers you don't like ...



[QUOTE=Giskard] Does your friend with the fagnepans know you paid $50 for these?

I don't think it as meant that way, the remark was reference to the maggie speaker and not the member and relative to a JBLs they are soft and limp sounding.

Incidentially, I have a couple of good friends with maggies and they both agree the JBL's (at least mine) a have got more "balls and poke" while the former is so "nice and polite".

4313B
01-18-2006, 05:34 AM
I don't think it as meant that way, the remark was reference to the maggie speaker and not the member.Ian, it doesn't matter what I meant because there are always going to be those individuals that have to twist something to suit their militant ends. You got my meaning right.

hapy._.face
01-18-2006, 06:05 AM
...they are soft and limp sounding.

LMAO!! Glad we can all agree on something: We like our stuff hard and erect; We blow massive loads (of cash) to support our passion. ;)