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Kilted
01-12-2006, 08:20 PM
Hi,

Well this is my first post on this forum. I only found it a few days ago. I am in the process of up dating my surround sound system. The one I previuos built did not work very well.

The amp will likely be a Denon 2807, 3806, or 4306 I'm undecided. That's a question for another post.

I have a pair of JBL L100A for the front Left and right that I am loathed to give up, I have had them since 1973. I can not say they are perfect but my ears and those speakers have aged togather!

So room size, the room is an L shape main living aera is 20'x13' with a 10'x10' dinning area attached.

I am looking to install a 5.1 system. What I already have are the L100's and a JBL PowerBase PB-10, I also have a pair of LX22 that I thought of pressing into service for the rears, that left picking a new center channel.

Well after a lot of reading I'm so sure that:
* LX22 would work very well at all.
* Trouble choosing a new center channel.
* That the L100's would even make a good pair of fronts. Sound image moving across the front would suffer.

My next thoughts was to use a JBL LC1 center and L830 as rears. With possibility of replacing the L100 with L880 or L890's if to may problems came up.

BUT, I can not find any usefull information on what the Studio L Series sound like.

I have a second system in my den with Mirage Nanosat 5.1 surround and they sound really good on that hdtv, not very good at all on music.

Listening would be tv/movies and music about 50/50. The fact that the Mirage sounds so good in surround and so bad on music surprised me. I do not want to lose the music quaility that I have with the L100's.

Any advice, suggestions, frustrations would be greatly appreciated.

Specificly a center channel and rears for 5.1 system. I think a 7.1 would be to problem-matic in my house.

Thank you
-- Brandy

briang
01-13-2006, 08:33 AM
Hi. There will be some much more educated opinions than mine here, but here goes:

A second pair of L100A speakers could be located (EBay, et.al) and one of those could be pressed into service as a center channel (as long as magnetic sheilding is not required, if your TV is CRT technology, this suggestion won't work very well).

I'm using a pair of Right and Left 4410 Studio Monitors with one 4412 studio monitor as my center, this set up works quite well for both music and video sound in my 5.1 set up (but then I'm no golden ear either).

Good luck.

Kilted
01-14-2006, 02:47 PM
briang


Actually I thought of that but I do not have the room. There was another thread here where that was the suggestions.

I've also seen threads where folks have gutted an L100 and replaced every thing inside, they like doing that, not for me also. I would just as soon buy new.

These are my options as I see it.

1) Find a center channel and surrounds that match timber of the L100's so the sound panning across the front does not change. Making repairs to the L100 that maybe need, like tweeter diffuser foam.

2) Buy a complete 5.1 system for movies that sounds good connect these to the amps primary speakers. Then take the L100 system and move them to "B" or second zone. Selecting the 2nd zone when I need the L100's.

3) Buy up market and replace the L100 and PB10 sub with a new system, I've looked at a $1.2K system and it did not do it. I'm thinking it will take $1.5K - $2.0K to replace what I've got with new depending where I buy. For this I'm in premium lines which often are not sold over the internet.

I was in another Fry's and saw an LC1 and L890, none operating. The L890 is a big box.

I'm leaning towards option "2" as I thinking finding a matching center would prove challanging.

Thank you

-- Brandy

Rolf
01-14-2006, 03:01 PM
Hi, and first welcome to the forum.



1) Find a center channel and surrounds that match timber of the L100's so the sound panning across the front does not change. Making repairs to the L100 that maybe need, like tweeter diffuser foam.

Get a 3rd L100 for the center, or the best, forget it and use the "phantom mode". Works best in most cases.



2) Buy a complete 5.1 system for movies that sounds good connect these to the amps primary speakers. Then take the L100 system and move them to "B" or second zone. Selecting the 2nd zone when I need the L100's..

Nono.




I
Thank you

-- Brandy

Rolf

Kilted
01-14-2006, 04:33 PM
Rolf,

Using the phanton mode does sound like a really good idea. This gives another option to test against.


Thank you.

-- Brandy

mbottz
01-14-2006, 05:58 PM
I currently use 4 L100's with my surround and it works quite well. You may wish to look at the following link for ma:applaud: re details. Poor Mans L250 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8054&highlight=poor+mans+l250) I run a 7.1 system with a custom jbl center channel I built using a 2405, LE5-2, and 8" JBL woofer. The rears are the four letter b word until I can get a suitable set of rears to replace them with. I use the HD receiver as the preamp and separate amps of 200W or more for each speaker. The L100's at ear level work quite well and deliver a nice bass. I suggest some type of stand to get them off the ground. This was a big improvement. I am in the process of building a Sub, but even without the sub the current system still has a suitable amount of bass for the action type movies.
When it comes to music do not expect your surround system to compare to a good stereo, it just does not have what it takes. Not sure why, but the receivers process the sound different for some reason. I have a totally separate stereo system which will blow away the surround in stereo mode.
I would be interested in hearing others opinions on surround used for stereo music as I would like to learn more to improve my current system.

MB

jim campbell
01-14-2006, 06:16 PM
Is it possible to wall mount 3 L100's across the front and above the screen to avoid the need for shielding as similar sounding fronts are very desirable.

Kilted
01-14-2006, 06:44 PM
IWhen it comes to music do not expect your surround system to compare to a good stereo, it just does not have what it takes. Not sure why, but the receivers process the sound different for some reason. I have a totally separate stereo system which will blow away the surround in stereo mode.
MB

I was at Magnolia's yesterday. After the first question what do you listen too? I related how a surround system I put on my den tv sounded good with a movie and sucked on music.

We went on to audition some speakers budget $1.2K. I want music/movie speakers. He just about choked, speakers for Home Theater (HT) make poor music speakers, but good music speakers make excellent HT movie speakers.

HT speakers are not full range speakers the emphasis on BIG base and mid range for voice. The same applies to amps they are customised for the job. The speakers he showed and demo'd was done with music. When we got to the fronts just blew the budget. His suggestion was a Definitive Technology powered center and pair good rears, and keep the L100's and PB10 sub.

We then talked about the AV Rec. and again the Average AV Rec not recommended for music. I'm looking at a Denon 3805, 3806, or 4306 AV Rec those are OK, got the impression those are the MIN recommended for music.

-- Brandy

Rolf
01-14-2006, 11:12 PM
Rolf,

Using the phanton mode does sound like a really good idea. This gives another option to test against.


Thank you.

-- Brandy

Well, to get a good result you must use the same center speaker (or better) as your L+R speakers. For me with 4343B's this is out of the question. (Size, cost stc). You should use the same speakers on all channels for the best possible sound, if you are a movie fanatic.http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

In the manual for my E.A.D. they say that unless you have this, use phantom mode.

I have used several smaller speakers as center, and they now rest in a closet somewhere.

Rolf

jim campbell
01-15-2006, 08:20 AM
What mode do you use for music playback?My pre pro defaults to pro logic and if I dont set it to stereo everything from the cd player comes out the center channel.Check your settings for large/small speakers and sub xover freq.

Rolf
01-15-2006, 01:44 PM
What mode do you use for music playback?My pre pro defaults to pro logic and if I dont set it to stereo everything from the cd player comes out the center channel.Check your settings for large/small speakers and sub xover freq.

Not sure I understand what you mean. Is this it? : When I activate one of the ANALOG inputs the pre/pro automaticly plays in stereo mode, as I have stored in the setup how I want every input to perform. All of my ANALOG equipment is set to play in stereo mode, large front speakers and no sub.

The DIGIAL inputs are set up in different ways depending on what I want on eg. DVD player, Sat reciever etc.

ALL DIGITAL inputs is set up in phantom mode.

I do not use a sub, and is turned off in setup.

Rolf

Kilted
01-15-2006, 08:28 PM
I actually manage to get an audition today of: pair L890's, LC1 Center channel, E250P sub. This was at Fry's Electronics in Palo Alto, CA.

The amp was a good mid-hi price range Yamaha.

The environment was poor lot's of outside noise and just a CD with a mix of pop english/latino vocals, no movies. The room was setup to demo Bose, you would have to listen to that demo to hear how painfull those Bose speakers are.

L890's:
Big box towers I'll not go through the config. as you can find that at JBL web site. First thought was sounds light something is missing, mid and high range were both good and sounded fairly tight and crisp. The was no base to speak of, since there was not a powered sub connected yet I was not expecting a thumping base, BUT I was expecting more than what I got this box has 2-8 inch "woofers".

LC1:
I tried it alone at first to get an idea of its range, good mid and hi range again but much less base than the L890 as expected. In a surround setup that would mean the dialog etc would be clear, but if there was, like a real thump in the center of the screen ie, punch, boom, etc. it may not sound right. The vocals through the LC1 sounded very clear and sharp.

So far what is apparent the L890 2-8 inch "woofers" do not equal one L100 12 inch woofer.

E250P
When first connected need to be immediatly turned down. After that the sound smoothed out nicely. The 2-L890's and LC1 were all playing, the base was there the voice's were sharp and crisp. The base was clean an controlled no boominess, but I had the sub trurned down.

I listened for a short while. Yea, I could live with setup. Went and tried the L100's again and come to the conclusions that I have to replace my amp before I can make a decision on speakers, the left channel was out again!

How ever using the single channel that's working and turning off the sub. I think the L100 (right one) sounds a little less crisp than the L890, the L100 has a lot more base, to the extend I would say the L890 has 2 nice large 8 inch midrange units. The L890 must be used with a sub to get full range sound.

So at a cost of L890 2x$700 and since with the L890 you must have a sub, $350 for E250 sub thats ~$1,750 list to replace a pair of L100's, food for thought.

This evaluation was with my 60 year old ears and YMWV (Your Mileage Will Vary). And was everything connected correctly?? The amp was not setup for these speakers, etc. Once I get a new amp I'll audition this setup again.

-- Brandy

Kilted
01-27-2006, 07:30 PM
Well I have just replaced my old A/V Rec. I now have all channels working with an amp of known good quaility a Denon 4306. I found a "open box special" at my local Magnolia's never used, never connected. It seems someone made a mistake and put a second unit on display, I got it for 15% off.

After getting the speakers and DVR hooked up and played some HD surround material. I immediately could tell that I want a good center speaker. I now understand the recommendations for using a third L100 for center, I do not have the room to do that, not an option.

I tried the phantom center it works but sounds like there is a hole in the middle of the sound.

* Has anyone heard a Studio L LC2?

I auditoned the LC1 and it seemed to be thin on bottom and bottom midrange.

Music sound just fine, the Denon has a music only play back mode that sounds really good.

I have only had the unit for three day's and last night about 10pm I got the first sound out of it. So far from what I've heard, it's a really good sounding amp. Setup is complicated as there are a lot of setup options. With a mix of new and old equipment, not everything works as expected. The L100's work very well!

Thank you

-- Brandy

jim3860
01-27-2006, 07:51 PM
Is it possible to wall mount 3 L100's across the front and above the screen to avoid the need for shielding as similar sounding fronts are very desirable. If your L100s use alnico magnents it shouldndt be a problem. you could take a 2213h woofer and place it directly on top of your tv without problems. newer ferrite magnents need shielding though.:D

Kilted
02-10-2006, 12:32 AM
From my previuos audition I figured a LC1 did not have enough range.

So I ordered a LC2 from B&H Photo, it was the only way to get an audition as I was unable to find one locally.

So far it sounds pretty good, I moved my LX22's to the surround position, so I not have JBL's all round.

I will have to watch some movies this weekend to get a better feel for the sound, quality. Any recommendations?

The LC2 will fit perfectly on the shelf directly above the tv.

Surround 5.1 system consists of: A/V Rec - Denon 4306, Front-L/R JBL L100A, Center JBL LC2, Sub JBL PB10, Surround JBL LX22.

To me it sounds pretty good. I need to watch a few movies to get a better feel. HDTV sounds wonderfull, music sounds great

-- Brandy