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kingjames
01-10-2006, 06:26 PM
I have always heard that Receivers and amps are rated at minimum wattage
wheras speakers are rated at maximum wattage. Is this true? I always read that when most people sell speakers they will say that these speakers weren't played loud or weren't driven hard. What is the volume level you should play most stuff? When I play some rock on my SOV II'S or my 4425's I blast the shit out of them and the louder I go the better they sound. I hear no distortion so I know I am not hurting them. But does it hurt them in the end? I noticed on my L56's which I don't like, start to pop a little at a certain level at which time I turn down the receiver. By the way I bought an almost new Pioneer SX1250 off of ebay and sold the one I got at the garage sale as it was too much work to make it look nice. My stuff has to look mint before I can really appreciate it. It's like I can't drive a car if it's got rust on it. I've always been that way. So does it really hurt the speakers if you pump some raw power to them? I'm not talking about playing loud until you hear distortion or see sparks flying, I'm just talking about playing loud most of the time,does it eventually wear on the speakers themselves? I know speakers are watt rated but can I hurt the speakers eventually if I consistantly pump say a 100 watts to them all the time or is it the louder you go the less life of the speakers? Any Thoughts! I hope you can figure out what I am trying to say here. Thanks!:blink:

Zilch
01-10-2006, 06:49 PM
It's not the answer you're looking for, but:

Procure the standard equipment SPL meter at Radio Shack for $50, and follow the NIOSH level guidelines.

See also:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/lowpower.pdf

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/notes/power-req.htm

Ian Mackenzie
01-10-2006, 08:46 PM
I have always heard that Receivers and amps are rated at minimum wattage
wheras speakers are rated at maximum wattage. Is this true? I always read that when most people sell speakers they will say that these speakers weren't played loud or weren't driven hard. What is the volume level you should play most stuff? When I play some rock on my SOV II'S or my 4425's I blast the shit out of them and the louder I go the better they sound. I hear no distortion so I know I am not hurting them. But does it hurt them in the end? I noticed on my L56's which I don't like, start to pop a little at a certain level at which time I turn down the receiver. By the way I bought an almost new Pioneer SX1250 off of ebay and sold the one I got at the garage sale as it was too much work to make it look nice. My stuff has to look mint before I can really appreciate it. It's like I can't drive a car if it's got rust on it. I've always been that way. So does it really hurt the speakers if you pump some raw power to them? I'm not talking about playing loud until you hear distortion or see sparks flying, I'm just talking about playing loud most of the time,does it eventually wear on the speakers themselves? I know speakers are watt rated but can I hurt the speakers eventually if I consistantly pump say a 100 watts to them all the time or is it the louder you go the less life of the speakers? Any Thoughts! I hope you can figure out what I am trying to say here. Thanks!:blink:

Depends on what you play and how.

If you play heavy metal on a low powered amp and clip the amp it continuously this will build up heat in the tweeter voice coil and crossover and shorten the lifespan of the tweeter and crossover. The problem is you may not hear the amp clip until the damage is done playing this kind if genre.. Never use a low power amp to run JBL's loud.

If you play heavy bass stuff and push the woofer well beyond its linear displacement this can cause damage to the spider(I've done this with 2231A's). Anything with moving parts wears out eventually.

Common sense applies..look at the power guidlines for the amp and speakers. Ideally you should allow 6 -10 db of headroom above your normal listening level to ensure reliable long life.
If you need it louder buy more efficient/ larger speakers.

John
01-10-2006, 11:24 PM
I would have to say yes, yes and yes.

Rolf
01-11-2006, 02:19 AM
I have always heard that Receivers and amps are rated at minimum wattage
wheras speakers are rated at maximum wattage. Is this true?

Some times this is true. "In the beginning" when I started my hi-fi quest most amps an recievers here in Norway had a spesification according to the German DIN45500 norm. This norm says how many watts the amp can produce a sine wave at 1000 Hz in 10 minutes. I had a reciever stated 60W (4 ohm) with this spec and today this amp would been rated about 20-25 W in 8 ohm according to the FTC norm. With the 45500 norm this specs will of a given amp of cource look more impressive. Over the years the specs have been more "correct" and descibe what the amp really is capable of. This does not include the cheap "plastic systems".

With speakers there is a simular thing. Most speaker companies (that is cheap speakers) will give you a spec of what the system can handle a few seconds only to look most impressive. This spec is normally at 1000 Hz. If you look at JBL and a few other hi-class speakers there is a different matter. F.eks. the pro speaker 4333 is rated 75W and the same consumer speaker L300 is rated 150W. Most of us know this speakers can handle a lot more.

I believe I play the same way as you do, and let the ears find out when it is time to turn down.http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/wink.gif With this in mind I say let's rock!http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

What Ian says about small/large amps is very true. But Ian, I have never managed to kill a 2231 woofer!!, and with the 2235H in my 4343 I do not know what to do to kill them!!

The real speaker guru's say that if you push your speakers to the limit year after year they can wear out, but with our JBL's I believe it will take a very very long time.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Rolf

Ian Mackenzie
01-11-2006, 02:57 AM
The suspension in the 2235 is different to 2231A.

Guido
01-11-2006, 03:27 AM
The suspension in the 2235 is different to 2231A.
Ian, I think this was the main change with the 2235 together with the kapton VC former. Right?

I think Rolf wanted to show his respect that you managed to kill one of those 2231. Rolf had 4333's before he bought my 4343. He didn't manage to damage the 2231's and think it is almost impossible to kill the 2235.

When I was young I sure would have been able to kill a 2231 :D . But I owned 2225 back then. They survived and still work fine in a friends system.

jim campbell
01-11-2006, 07:55 AM
The quality of the power is important.Lower power amps will destroy a speaker if they are driven too hard.Clean preamps with power amps that have lots of headroom will give you the volume.Dont be fooled by high wattage ratings.Current is important.I used to triamp my L300's with a bryston 3b a 4b and a 100 watt sae and with the volume control at nine oclock you could hear it for a city block.I am sure that only a small percentage of the amplifiers' capability was used.The more headroom the less possibility of clipping.Many amplifiers have high wattage ratings but no real power.I dont think there is any standardised way that amplifiers are tested.I have been told that most mass market stuff is measured using whatever yardstick that makes its product look good.A lot of the higher quality amp builders under rate their specs. I once saw a demo where 2 carver amps were bridged to mono yielding 500 watts each.this was compared to a 65 watt per channel marantz that had more real power and made the carvers look silly.(both powering the same system.)I hope this helps you enjoy your jbl's.

kingjames
01-11-2006, 09:39 AM
I think I am running a very powerful Receiver with the Classic Pioneer SX1250, no skimping on the recipe with this one. This thing has balls and what wonderful sound to boot. If I turn it up less than half way my study window's start to rattle. On speaker A of this thing I am running my SOV II'S and speaker B my 4425's. Jesus, this receiver is powerful and the more I turn it up the better my vintage stuff sounds. It's hard to put into words what they sound like when I am palying some Metallica or some Floyd,this is heaven. You have, I believe answered my questions here. I think in the end with the receiver I have I will never hurt my baby's but will add a little caution to be on the safe side. Thanks All! Jim
:D

Audiobeer
01-11-2006, 10:18 AM
That SX-1250 is pumping 160 watts. If the caps are in good shape you shouldn't have any problems. I am a big believer in the Pioneer SX-1250. I like it better than the Marantz in their day at the competetive models like the Marands 2330 and the 2385

Rolf
01-11-2006, 10:36 AM
Dont be fooled by high wattage ratings.Current is important.

There is a lot of specs that is important. An amp is in it's way the same as the whole hi-fi system. It is not better than the weakest product.

Specs are one thing, and I like most read them, and it can give you a clue how good it might be. But when I buy a amp, or any other hi-fi product I let my ears be the judge.

Rolf

Ian Mackenzie
01-11-2006, 01:14 PM
How = 700B

Know your product

Go here,

You guys should know this already.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5386&highlight=2235+suspension
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=46738&postcount=10
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=46744&postcount=12

Guido
01-11-2006, 01:29 PM
I was tempted to write:
"the fact that the 2235 has a different suspension was known from the day it first came out"

Why didn't I write it?

Because I do not like to let others look stupid or me looking super clever.

I like discussing with not-so-knowledgeable members also :)

Ian Mackenzie
01-11-2006, 02:43 PM
Guido,

I was only having a shot at you guys..it took me 15 minutes to find that reference.

When Our Don does post he does a sterling job!

I think we should make all Don's product related posts reference for the Tech forums....shrine if you like. Perhaps Giskard can see to that.

Don's much earlier post on the history of the L100 was beautiful!

Bo would remember it well...forged in fire over his love hate of the L100 as I recall....and never to be forgotten.

Wherever you are Don, we appreciate you and the forums.

In some respects this thread belongs in Tech help as reminder to take it carefully with our much loved ones.

Ian

Bernard Wolf
01-11-2006, 05:43 PM
This 'how many watts' thing has always escaped me as I am generaly running at under 1 watt !! My S/3100 is rated at 95 db.. so figure it out. I have recently been using an old Yamaha CA-1010 with peak meters and like I said, less than 1 watt is giving me mid 70-low 80 db which is plenty for me. I once put on some earplugs and ran it up to 80 watts or so, but I cannot imagine that kind of level other than in a barn. How in the heck someone can listen at these kinds of levels. Am I missing something, or are other JBL's that much less sensitive ?

Bernard

Guido
01-12-2006, 03:40 AM
I think we should make all Don's product related posts reference for the Tech forums....shrine if you like. Perhaps Giskard can see to that. Ian

This is a very good idea!! If Giskard could sort that it would be great.
BTW, Giskard seems to be on vacation at the moment ;)