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View Full Version : Dolly Gets a Face Lift! 4430s



Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 05:12 PM
Day one of some real Dogs from the JBL Dog House! Has left over Formica on top of 3M Glue on top of black paint. JBL Dog has the driver renewal project, and I'm stuck with the fumes!

Day 1 Starts!

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 06:27 PM
This step is using many coats of a stripper. I let it do the work for Me. This is a pic of the 3rd coat scraping in between coats.

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 06:30 PM
This is the 6th coat of stripper. The adhesive and paint is almost all gone. Now the holes that were filled from the lag bolts show themselves. In the final finishing steps these holes will be made to look like birdesyes or knots in the wood.

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 06:36 PM
Here all the material for the most part, has been removed. The stripper I used is water soluable, but I prefer washing with acetone as it drys much quicker and will not cause damage to the particle board underneath. This process took 2 - 3 hours per speaker. As you can see it will be well worth the time. I'll start and finish the other one tonight. Tommorow I'll take pics of the step bt step of the prep process for the finish. JBLDOG was to make a decision based on what was under the paint as to which way We would go. If the walnut venneer was heavily damaged, He would go with an Ebony Piano Finshed in a high gloss. My forearms are very thankfull that the venneer is in outstanding condition and the Factory finish can be reproduced!

Robh3606
09-29-2003, 06:52 PM
Wow you have some job ahead of you! They are looking better already. I have baffle question. How much higher is that horn baffle from the 2235 baffle?? Nice pictures I wondered if they supported the compression driver on the back of the horn. Now I know!

Rob :)

scott fitlin
09-29-2003, 07:13 PM
Sir, you are a genuine craftsman! I have no doubt that these will come out looking spectacular. :cool:

JBL Dog
09-29-2003, 07:39 PM
You are "da-man" Audiobeer!!

:cheers:

I'm sending a courier over with some 136A's so you can listen to your L300's while you do your magic on the Dolly's.

:yes:

The wifey can't wait for you to tackle the Minigon and "my" Metregon. The C45 pictured in the avatar is hers.

:D

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 08:32 PM
Here they are. Tommorow I'll put another coat of stipper on and bath it with oxolic acid to get the streaks and pigments out of the grain!

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 08:38 PM
Can anyone tell Me how the badges are secured? I'd like to remove them for the finishing rather than mask them in. I can feel for studs on the backside with a nut but that might be for the L-Pads

Mr. Widget
09-29-2003, 08:40 PM
I bet the hair dryer technique will remove them.

Are you going to use walnut dowels to fill the holes or just putty them?

Robh3606
09-29-2003, 08:42 PM
Take a look at this might help

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 08:50 PM
We had talked about the dowels but I think a mix of putty after I stain made to match the general color will work better. The holes have allready been filled and are secure. The problem with dowels is that the end grain that is exposed is not very capable of absorbing the stain like the surrounding veneer. I may sill use dowels and tap them in about a 1/16 of an inch deeper than the surface of the veneer. Again when you use the dowels, the glue that is used to secure them finds it's way on the surrounding veneer changing the immediate areas around the dowels ability to take the stain. Right now the holes are jagged and uneven which will aid in fooling the eye in thinking there is a couple of natural birdseye knots in the veneer slice once they are filled and manipulated a bit with dry stains, alcohol and an art brush. What do you think?

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Robh3606
Take a look at this might help


Great Help! Thank You! Looks as if adhesive is the only thing holding it! Thanks!

Audiobeer
09-29-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Robh3606
Wow you have some job ahead of you! They are looking better already. I have baffle question. How much higher is that horn baffle from the 2235 baffle?? Nice pictures I wondered if they supported the compression driver on the back of the horn. Now I know!

Rob :)

I'll get back with you on that Rob!

boputnam
09-29-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
Can anyone tell Me how the badges are secured? "Badges... BADGES???! We don't need no stinking BADGES!!

Sorry, I'm drunk... :spin:

Audiobeer, you are a Master. Now I see why you were so insistent on doing the repair of those 4313B's for me, oh-so-long-ago.

I apprecieate the step-by-step. The starters looked like they'd been through a fire. Your "repeat by the numbers" approach is remarkable, and the veneer stood-up to it all.

Really, really excellent.

Mr. Widget
09-29-2003, 10:15 PM
"We had talked about the dowels but I think a mix of putty after I stain made to match the general color will work better. The holes have allready been filled and are secure. The problem with dowels is that the end grain that is exposed is not very capable of absorbing the stain like the surrounding veneer."

Well when I said dowels I meant using the dowels you get from using a hollow dowel cutter and taking the dowel out of the flat grain. It works really well, especially if the original veneer is thick enough so that you can blend them in without fear or going through.

Just a thought... I am sure based on your previously posted pics they will look great.:)

speakerdave
09-29-2003, 10:50 PM
Mr. Widget: "a hollow dowel cutter and taking the dowel out of the flat grain"

I seem to recollect those are plugs, and that's a plug cutter you've described. It works pretty well. All you need for material is a scrap of the same wood with a similar grain pattern, although matching old finish can still be a bit tricky.

David

Mr. Widget
09-29-2003, 11:09 PM
"...although matching old finish can still be a bit tricky."

True, but Audiobeer has already removed the finish. Actually there probably will be some residual finish down in the grain.. I guess it is a judgment call.

"Plug-cutter" huh, that sounds like the ticket!:D

Alex Lancaster
09-30-2003, 08:11 AM
That' some piece of fine work!, the 1st picture looked like something I would put a sledge hammer to, for the fireplace.

Do You mean "oxalic" acid, a powder that is used to polish marble?

Thatīs a first one for me,

Alex.

Audiobeer
09-30-2003, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
That' some piece of fine work!, the 1st picture looked like something I would put a sledge hammer to, for the fireplace.

Do You mean "oxalic" acid, a powder that is used to polish marble?

Thatīs a first one for me,

Alex.

Yep! Thanks for the spell correction. Finishers have used it for years to remove pigment and dirt from the pores of hardwoods like walnut & oak. It also lightens the wood a bit. Works Great!

Alex Lancaster
09-30-2003, 08:19 AM
#$%&! the spelling, full speed ahead!

Alex.

Audiobeer
10-04-2003, 07:54 PM
Here's a Pic of the speaker with a scuff sand to get the heavy residue after stripping.

Audiobeer
10-04-2003, 07:56 PM
Here's a pic of the speaker after a light coat of stripper was put on just long enough to loosen pigments in the pores. Then I gave it an oxalic acid bath using a scrub brush. You can see a deep gouge in the top left half of the wood grain of the speakerust below the left bottom portion of the masked in area of the badge. Time to get out the steam iron!

Audiobeer
10-04-2003, 07:58 PM
This last pic is after the vinegar water bath has dried. I then placed it next to the speaker that is waiting it's turn. As you can see the Oxalic acid has not only lightened the wood of the speaker on the right, but has really cleaned up the grain compared to the speaker next two it. These two speakers required 2 hours for this step with clean up. At this point there is 6- 8 hours in the job. Now we are ready for the next step of the pre stain prep.
1) Rough Sand
2) Steam Iron gouges
3) Fill Imperfections
4) Final Sand

mikebake
10-05-2003, 08:26 AM
What is the car? RX7?

Audiobeer
10-05-2003, 08:52 AM
Close. it's an MX5. That's my wife's car, She is obsessed with that thing!

boputnam
10-05-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
She is obsessed with that thing! We all have our obsessions... ;)

scott fitlin
10-05-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by boputnam
We all have our obsessions... ;) You dont say? Im not obsessed with audio, am I? :yes:

Audiobeer
10-05-2003, 11:30 AM
Just finished the initial sanding, Then steam ironed the gouges. Sanded again with 120, then 160. PS the blue tape on the badge is to keep the dust out of the L-Pads.

mikebake
10-06-2003, 07:04 AM
Okay, I was thinking MX5.....makes a nice bargaining chip..."you've got that big metal car, I've just got all these little wood boxes........."

lpd
10-07-2003, 01:09 AM
Looks great. Keep us posted. I remember the hard labor that went into stripping my 4333AWX's. They were covered in a aborite and required weeks of finishing to restore them close to original. Worth every second!!!

Audiobeer
10-07-2003, 06:19 PM
In this pic is my secret weapon. It's a paste wood filler which in this case is tinted to match the stain. It's used in any wood that is porous. It fills the pores so the laquer lays nice and lasts a lifetime without the pore having air trapped underneath the laquer and popping later. You just slop it on!

Audiobeer
10-07-2003, 06:21 PM
Once you lob it on you go with the grain filling all the pores. Once it dries flat a bit you rub off with cheese cloth making sure not to leave any residue behind!

Audiobeer
10-07-2003, 06:24 PM
This is what the surface looks like once it's done. It is a real bitch of a step but in the end it pays off big! It allows the blending of the dry earth tone powders to simulate the knots in the wood that need to make in order to hide the lag bolt holes. In this pic the side has the excess filler wipe of. The top has some that remains to be wiped. This step takes 1 - 2 hours.

Audiobeer
10-08-2003, 06:49 PM
This first is after applying 3 light coats of cellulose laquer sanding sealer. Then scuff sanding with 360 garnet paper.

Audiobeer
10-08-2003, 06:54 PM
The second pic is after putting down 1 more final coat of the sanding sealer. As luck goes with all my projects (bad luck somewhere) there is some major fisheye on the tops only. I cannot proceed till I get to the finish supply shop and buy some fisheye killer. After going to such an extent to prevent any problems like this, I can only assume that some parafin from a candle must have found thier way on the cabinet tops at one time or another. Here's how it looks at this point and from start to finish, this phase only took 1 hour. I will have to put down one more coat with the fisheye killer added. I hope it works!

boputnam
10-09-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
I can only assume that some parafin from a candle must have found thier way on the cabinet tops... :die: I HATE that!! Speaker tops are not shelves, ladies! Aarrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!

So, Audiobeer, tell us what this "fisheye killer" is? That I've not heard of...

(BTW - thanks for deciding to post this great DIY session. I'll delete this post to keep your DIY thread, clean :yes: )

speakerdave
10-09-2003, 08:25 AM
Bo: "Speaker tops are not shelves . . ."

Right on! Nor plant stands, nor drink tables. But they get used that way . . . . thus the wisdom of JBL's glass and marble cabinet tops.

David

JBL Dog
10-09-2003, 01:38 PM
Lookin' oh so fine!

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

scott fitlin
10-09-2003, 01:45 PM
Oustanding work!

:dancin:

JBL Dog
10-09-2003, 03:02 PM
The good news is I get to keep them! Considering I'm getting the 2235H's reconed, they will be as good as new!

:rockon1:

So, my "Dog house" 5:1 surround will consist of 4343's as the mains, 4430's as the rears and UREI 815 as the center channel.

:rockon2:

I really don't think I'll need a subwoofer. :D

Nice work, Audiobeer!

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Guido
10-09-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by JBL Dog
So, my "Dog house" 5:1 surround will consist of 4343's as the mains, 4430's as the rears and UREI 815 as the center channel.
This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Just let us know when the opening party is planned. I'm shure we will have a good time
:rockon1: :cheers: :dancin:
I promise to come all the way from Europe:D

Guido
10-09-2003, 03:18 PM
Audiobeer!

My respect to that perfect job. Keep us posted and good luck:thmbsup:

Robh3606
10-09-2003, 05:14 PM
Hello JBLDOG

Your just plains nuts!!! Great system movies you can feel!
Which version of the 815 do you have?? Is that the one out of the "Tent" ??? The Altec driver or the C with the JBL's. I have an 811C center and its just great for a "small" center.

Rob:)

Earl K
10-09-2003, 05:26 PM
Hi Audiobeer

Just gorgeous work! Wow, I'm in awe . :eek:

Your pictoral guidance will serve as a great roadmap in helping to restore my S99 enclosures . Thanks !

Earl K:)

JBL Dog
10-09-2003, 05:54 PM
Robh3606:

Yeah, the 815R ("right-side") is the one from the tent. I couldn't pass it up at $330.XX. I would love to pair it up, but getting a "left-side" in like condition would be next to impossible. Not to mention my ass would be out on the street if one would show up on the front porch.

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Audiobeer
10-09-2003, 06:22 PM
OK, The fisheye is not too bad so I applied another heavy coat of sanding sealer at 40psi. Then I scuffed sand with 360 garnet cabinet paper. Here's the pic.

Audiobeer
10-09-2003, 06:24 PM
Here's the secret sauce. It has to be applied and taken off in 1-2 hours, otherwise you must wait 48 hours.

Audiobeer
10-09-2003, 06:30 PM
Now a lot of you are cringing but this is the stuff experts use to create depth to a finish....but more importantly it blends and hides imperfections. 98% of what you put on is wiped off. Think of this as underlayment on the face of a model....that hides blemishes and imperfections. It highlights the grains also. I will slowly remove (After 1-2 hours) with cheese cloth and then with a very fine 2" paint brush that I use to finesse the material wher I need it. Again it is just like a brush using blush on the models face. YOU MUST GO WITH THE GRAIN AND YOU MUST REMOVE WITHIN 1 - 2 HOURS OF APPLYING. Here's a pic of it applied. I'll take another after it's removed.

Audiobeer
10-09-2003, 08:03 PM
Now a lot of you are cringing but this is the stuff experts use to create depth to a finish....but more importantly it blends and hides imperfections. 98% of what you put on is wiped off. Think of this as underlayment on the face of a model....that hides blemishes and imperfections. It highlights the grains also. I will slowly remove (After 1-2 hours) with cheese cloth and then with a very fine 2" paint brush that I use to finesse the material where I need it. Again it is just like a brush using blush on the models face. YOU MUST GO WITH THE GRAIN AND YOU MUST REMOVE WITHIN 1 - 2 HOURS OF APPLYING. Here's a pic of it applied. I'll take another after it's removed.

Audiobeer
10-09-2003, 08:30 PM
Here's a pic of 1 of 3 final seal coats before applying the topcoats. Between each layer there will be a bit of manipulation of the lag bolt areas which is allready on it's way to looking like a knot or irregular grain pattern. This step was only 2 hours!

Audiobeer
10-09-2003, 08:31 PM
I have to lighten up the knots or darken the finish.....JBL DOG??? Whatcha want?

JBL Dog
10-10-2003, 12:06 AM
BEE-YOU-TEE-FULL!!

:D

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

boputnam
10-10-2003, 08:39 AM
Audiobeer, that is a phenomenal transformation. Remarkable. The treatment of the lag-bolt holes is brilliant!

Wow. :coolness:

Wardsweb
10-10-2003, 09:56 AM
Truely a labor of love and what an incredible job you're doing. I'm impressed with your skill and dedication to "do it right".

While not JBL, here is a pic of some walnut cabinets I redid. Just sanded all the way to 1000 grit paper and sprayed with DEFT.

scott fitlin
10-10-2003, 10:28 AM
Ya know, we have enough talent right here to start our own speaker company! The Heritage Speaker Company!

Audiobeer you are an artist!

Audiobeer
10-10-2003, 12:08 PM
Those 901s look better than the factorys finish! :)

Audiobeer
10-10-2003, 05:41 PM
Almost There! Here's an attempt to use a dry powder stain mixed w/water to the shade of the cabinet. I apply that right in the middle of the lag bolt holes. This pic is after the stain drys....about 1 minute. Looks terrible....BUT, the second pic is of the sanding sealer over the top bringing out the true color of the stain. Now I'll lay one more coat of that Nu-glase over the top of that and that will complete the cover up portion.

Audiobeer
10-10-2003, 05:42 PM
Now here's the pic with the sealer over it!

Wardsweb
10-10-2003, 06:12 PM
lag bots? what lag bolts? I don't see no lag bolts? you must have mistaken these for some other cabinets. :rolleyes:

Audiobeer
10-10-2003, 09:30 PM
Here they are with 3 coats of laquer. Each coat was applied 1 hour apart. Before spraying I wet sand with 400 grit wet/dry paper. The last coat is still wet. All that's left is the detailing and black paint. Then lastly the hand rub finish. I'll post that Sunday evening

Wardsweb
10-10-2003, 10:03 PM
Man you do some sweet work!

Audiobeer
10-11-2003, 06:27 PM
In the pics you see some left over residue from the rotten stone I used to hand Rub. I still have to steel wool the backs to take of the shine.

Audiobeer
10-11-2003, 06:28 PM
Here's the last pic. If it wasn't for the lag bolts this would have been a 4 hour project spread out for dry time. The cloudy spots you see on the upper half of the right side towards the front is rottenstone residue! Can you believe these are going to be rear channels in a 5.1 HT setup!:o

Audiobeer
10-11-2003, 06:32 PM
OK JBL DOG! It's your turn to post with the drivers installed and after it's setup!

boputnam
10-11-2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
OK JBL DOG! It's your turn to post with the drivers installed and after it's setup! and THEN, get the invites to us all posted and plan the big TasteTest! :yes:

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 01:10 AM
Or tonight, depending on your time zone. I will pick up the 4430's from Audiobeer early tomorrow evening. The "dolly-mounting" party will start about 8:00 p.m.!

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Guido
10-12-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by JBL Dog
Or tonight, depending on your time zone. I will pick up 4430's from Audiobeer early tomorrow evening. The "dolly-mounting" party will start about 8:00 p.m.!

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Hey JBL DOG!

Thats unfair :mad:

I can't pick a flight so quick. ;)

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 09:41 AM
Guido:

I'll wait. When can you be here?

:cheers:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Audiobeer
10-12-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by JBL Dog
The "dolly-mounting" party will start about 8:00 p.m.!

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

I told you! You can buy anything on the internet! What will you fill the orfice with? :o

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 07:33 PM
And it only takes a few comments to destroy it! :eek:

Fill it? A 15" driver, of course! :D

The Dolly's are home. Gonna grab a quick bite of chow and load 'em up! Stills will follow.

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 09:44 PM
The good news:

"Dolly" is mounted! :D

The bad news:

Battery is dead in the digital camera! :banghead:

(back in an hour)

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 10:40 PM
#1

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 10:41 PM
#2

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 10:42 PM
#3

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 10:43 PM
Hats off to Audiobeer for the wonderful job!

:cheers:

The pictures suck (IMHO), I'm just not feeling up to the challenge of taking the time to take good ones tonight.... L-O-N-G weekend. :(

Got to see/hear Audiobeer's L300's tonight. WOW! Look and sound new! This is one time where his "rolling-the-dice" PAID OFF BIG!!

:yes:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 10:55 PM
#4

Audiobeer
10-12-2003, 11:12 PM
Is Momma happy?:p

JBL Dog
10-12-2003, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
Is Momma happy?:p

Yes, momma's one happy girl! :yes:

And, she likes the 4430's, too!! :rotfl:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

warpig
10-15-2003, 07:26 PM
Just wanted to say very nice work indeed. Those are beautiful. If I make it to St Louis I am going to buy you all a beer.

Audiobeer
10-15-2003, 09:05 PM
It would be a blast!:bomb:

boputnam
10-15-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
Here they are with 3 coats of laquer. GezuzHKrist! That is astonishing! Man-oh-man. I can't believe the quality. Wow...

A couple o' questions, dude:

1) Why did you go with the laquer? :hmm: It's beautiful, just different from what I expected. Beauty...

2) What is this mystical "rottenstone"? Never known such a thing, and being a qualified dang geologist, I have an urge to learn...! :yes:

And, next time though the Arches, I'm taking EVERYONE down to catch a set-or-two of Jake's Leg, wherever they're gigging...! :dancin:

JBL Dog
10-16-2003, 06:47 PM
Jake's Leg is at Magee's tonight.

http://www.jakesleg.com/

Let us know when you're in town, Bo!

:cheers:

JBL Dog
10-16-2003, 06:48 PM
(clicked play twice, sorry!)

:cheers:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

boputnam
10-16-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by JBL Dog
Jake's Leg is at Magee's tonight.

http://www.jakesleg.com/

Let us know when you're in town, Bo! Bummer... :( I'm not. I'm gettin ready for some gigs of my own, down the Rio Grande valley way, next weekend. Lucky me, though, I get to sing and play, and leave FOH to somebody else!

Soon as I get any hint of being out your way, we will DEFINATELY put something together! :yes:

Audiobeer
10-16-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by boputnam
GezuzHKrist! That is astonishing! Man-oh-man. I can't believe the quality. Wow...

A couple o' questions, dude:

1) Why did you go with the laquer? :hmm: It's beautiful, just different from what I expected. Beauty...

2) What is this mystical "rottenstone"? Never known such a thing, and being a qualified dang geologist, I have an urge to learn...! :yes:

And, next time though the Arches, I'm taking EVERYONE down to catch a set-or-two of Jake's Leg, wherever they're gigging...! :dancin:

Laquer is durable. forgiving when a run appears (easy to fix) And dry time between coats is 15 minutes tops!

Rottenstone is a very fine powder used to get a satin finish (use oi;) or gloss (apply with water) and it's cheap. Just oil or wet surface, then rub back and forth with a cloth till desired effect is achieved.

JonFairhurst
10-17-2003, 01:13 PM
I did hand rubbed oil on my cabs. I only wish the dry time was 15 minutes! It was more like a day or two. Repairability is nice though. Just slop more oil on and rub down, regardless of what you last did (or didn't do) to the wood.

Of course you'll never get the gloss out of oil that you can out of laquer. At least *I* can't get that kind of gloss out of it.

Audiobeer
10-17-2003, 01:28 PM
Actually I prefer your method when it comes to a quality peice of wood! as a matter of fact I'm getting some wood looking at that avatar of yours! :eek: :D

JonFairhurst
10-17-2003, 01:40 PM
Yeah it was a hard decision. Should I use the hand-rubbed oil on the speakers, or should I simply mud-wrestle them? :)

rcpmac
10-25-2003, 02:19 AM
Funny, I was just planning to paint my L-100s black! Just kidding. Wonderful work. A true craftsman.