Nuforce amplifier any experience

[gerard]

Hello

Does anyone have any experience on Nuforce amplifier

it's a quiet new technology ....

http://nuforce.com/news.htm

Gerard .

[Don C]

The web page set off my BS detector immediately.


If you have an open mind and open ears, prepare to be exhilarated.
What you will hear.


Your first and immediate impression will be a striking sense of purity and effortlessness.
You will instantly hear the absence of subtle distortions that are inherent in conventional amplifiers.
These distortions have been part of everyone’s listening experience for so long that we often fail to recognize them for what they are, or where they are coming from. Their presence is why so many people find it necessary to “tune” their system through the careful selection of components that lessen the subtle irritations.
In everyday life, low-level background noise is often noticed only when it stops, followed by a sense of relief. You will feel a similar and immediate sense of relief with Nuforce amps.
Sounds will simply be in the room, free from any mechanical emphasis. You will relax into the music, physically and emotionally. The leading edges of notes will have clarity and definition, with a startling absence of grit or artificial brightness. The soundstage will be wide, deep and open, without the “crowding” that typically happens when music becomes complex. You will not only hear precisely where the performers are on the soundstage. You will also hear and sense the spaces around them.
The midrange will be pristine and intensely present, equal to the best tube amplifiers, but with bass control they cannot equal. The size of the musical event will be realistic, and the rhythm and drive will be propulsive.
But above all, you will respond to a sense of naturalness and ease that allows you to feel the music, not simply hear it.
It’s as if a fine haze has been removed between you and the performance. As if your music has been set free.
Because it has.

[Alan Fletcher]

BS Indeed-- Please! spare me!!

I have never before seen such an elaborate collection of "audiophile" cliches in one writing.

Just stop it! Stop it, already!

Total bullshit. Amen.:barf:

-A


The web page set off my BS detector immediately.
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[Mike Caldwell]

Hello
I have to go with Don on the Nuforce amps.
After spending a couple of minutes on their website and looking
at the pictures of the insides of their amps it look like they are
using generic OEM'ed power supplies and amp moduals designed and
built who knows where that are just placed into a pretty aluminum
box!
If I had been them I would have left the covers on for the pictures.

Just my thoughts
Mike Caldwell

[gerard]

Ok


I do not know those amps but most important is how they sound and not what the web shows , I believe it is also interesting to see what's going on with new technology as Icepower or Nuforce .
At the end what we want is our Jbl system sounds the best we can :o: .

Have you seen this page :
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15365

Regards

Gerard

[gerard]

This one too :

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/nuforce9.htm



Push these little guys to full power and you'll not hear a trace of hardness or brittleness, and not so much as a hint of compression or strain. My $16,000 Pass X 600s nearly drove me out of the room at high levels with the Avalons. The 9s intrigue while they pull you into the performance. They perform like $6000+ solid-state amps, and better than most of them. If you like your music powerful, neutral, slippery smooth, and super detailed, the 9s are your ticket. If you're looking for sweetness and love, warmth and liquidity, they're not for you

Gerard

[Don C]

I looks to me as though they may have had a shill on the HT forum plugging their amps. I've read all of that, I still don't believe that the switching frequency of the amp power supply should have audible effects on the sound of the amp. But I'm always skeptical of tweako nonsense. Either the power supply is well designed and of adequate capacity for the needs of the amp, or it's not. If you have a situation where the size and weight of the amp is important, they do have a good story there.

[gerard]

And look Here :

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=290&Main=290

what they says


"They have replaced my much loved Naim NAP250. The reviews are quite accurate and I have nothing but praise for these wonderful monoblocks. I have also had the opportunity to compare them with $16,000 (a pair) Carey valve monoblocks and they easily hold their own in this exalted company. The owner of the Carey's has also put in an order for the NuForce amps. They really are that good. "


Are all those review and forum fakes ?

Gerard

[Don C]

People will believe what they want to believe.

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Does make one a little currious. Interesting how two experienced audio buffs could have such opposite views on an amp. Slight differences and opinions I can understand...but these go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

I will keep my eyes open for these and have a listen.

Always interesting to read about new things.

Ken

[Don C]

Does make one a little currious. Interesting how two experienced audio buffs could have such opposite views on an amp. Slight differences and opinions I can understand...but these go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

I will keep my eyes open for these and have a listen.

Always interesting to read about new things.

Ken
To be clear, I am not trying to comment about the sound of their amp, which I have not heard. I was just commenting about the contents of the web page and one message board post, which seem to be filled with pseudoscientific marketing drivel. The amplifiers probably sound just as good as many others. I should bow out now before this turns into one of those subjectivity/objectivity arguments.

[Ken Pachkowsky]

To be clear, I am not trying to comment about the sound of their amp, which I have not heard. I was just commenting about the contents of the web page and one message board post which seem to be filled with pseudoscientific marketing drivel. The amplifiers probably sound just as good as many others. I'm should bow out now before this turns into one of those subjectivity/objectivity arguments.

Don, I understand and would agree. It never ceases to amaze me how colorfull the language can get on these descriptions. FYI, no argument here...

Ken

[gerard]

Does someone has the possibility to hear those Nuforce amps .
I would like to have to comments from Jbl users and I am way too far :scoot: to have a test .

Gerard

[gerard]

Or may some gyus from Australia can test the Nuforce:barf: :


see :

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=17913

[edgewound]

I just returned from CES and saw and heard the NuForce amps. They are quite impressive. You'll see more about these in the press. The Absolute Sound gave rave reviews to the Reference 9. The amplifier landscape is evolving. There will still be the purists who stick with what they know... but when a $1600 amp can compete with units that cost ten times as much, it's worth a look. Also takes up a fraction of rack space and electricity. Makes sense to me.

[gerard]

Thank you Edgewound .


I am quiet interested in those amp and my purchase a pair but I can't unfortunately test them .

Does those amps sound like SS ; typical Tube , Neutral Tube or something else and do you think it worls ok with 43xx ?

Regards

Gerard

[Mike Caldwell]

Hello

While my only contact with any NuForce product has been via their web page I am still hard pressed to see anything high tech, ground breaking, cutting edge, ect. They are a switch mode power supply amp somthing that many amp companies have been doing for years, QSC, Lab Gruppen, Camco, Diagam and others with excellent results. Switch mode power supplies in audio amps is something Bob Carver did first in the mid 1980's. Again these amps appear to be nothing more than off the shelf industrial switch mode power supply modules and a generic power amp module. For whats it's worth on their web site they offer the modules by themseleves for sale. While these amps may sound fine they are most certainly nothing new or ground breaking.
For the prices they list their amps at go buy a QSC PL2 series for the same money and get more power and I bet you would not hear the difference. The QSC amps and all of the amps I mentioned are pro series of amps that would would pass for a Hi Fi home amp in sound quality. The power supplies in those amps were desinged as part of an audio amp and not just an off the shelf product.

Mike Caldwell

[edgewound]

For my own use, I've been using Stewart Audio amps. Mostly for live sound. Bel Canto switched to ICE, from Tri-path, and the Sonic-T amps get rave reviews... but that might be more from a financially- stable-company point of view. If it's switchmode...does it have to be bullshit? Soundstream which was a Stewart Electonics division used the same amp for home theater and was THX certified. Let the market decide. Try one before you tank on it...Like i said before...some will stick with what they're used to...some won't want a new "ipod"....Maybe physics is moving forward in amplifier design.

[scott fitlin]

For my own use, I've been using Stewart Audio amps. Mostly for live sound. Bel Canto switched to ICE, from Tri-path, and the Sonic-T amps get rave reviews... but that might be more from a financially- stable-company point of view. If it's switchmode...does it have to be bullshit? Soundstream which was a Stewart Electonics division used the same amp for home theater and was THX certified. Let the market decide. Try one before you tank on it...Like i said before...some will stick with what they're used to...some won't want a new "ipod"....Maybe physics are moving forward in amplifier design.I dont know! I have tried switching PS amps from Crown, QSC, and Lab. They work, and they all sound fairly good, I think Lab Gruppen has the best sonic character of the 3 brands I mentioned, BUT, the one thing all these amps didnt do right for me is the deep bass! While they may be clean, they just dont hit like a traditional amp that has class AB outputs and massive power supplies! To me, the bass through traditional amps also have better definition, bass lines sound more articulate.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hello
I do need to say that in addition to the many QSC PL2's than I use for mids and highs as well as for stage monitors the low end for the mains is all powered with Crown MA3600VZ amps...there heavy, they require there own dedicated circuit for power, did I mention there heavy! But there is jsut something about them for low end.

Sorry for getting this post a little off topic, ok more than a little.
Mike Caldwell

[scott fitlin]

I was using some 3600,s this past summer, and that amp walks on Crown newer series the I Techs. The 3600 just delivers, and beats the I Tech 6000, and the 6000 is rated to deliver 3000wpc@4ohms -vs- the 3600 at 1565wpc@4ohms!


I just put my PSA-2,s back into the system on subs, man, 450wpc@4ohms of power in a 60 lb amp with massive dual power supplies sounds AMAZING, and shakes the building!

Bass amps NEED to have BIG power supplies, and usually weigh alot! The PSA-2,s KICK like the devil. And they sound good. Hadnt heard em in a while, was really surprised at what they can do!

I understand why guys love their Crown 5000,s and Crest 9001,s.

My opinion is, as was my opinion always, " If it dont weigh enough, It cant play enough ".

:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Very interesting,

Would be fun to audition one.

I have tried the Bel Canto in my system.

Sounded dry and lifeless, and lacked the ambience and being there imaging of a JLH reference class A amp. They are popular with Apogee Stage users because they can drive very low impedance loads to around 600 watts or so bridged.

I have had good reports locally about the Camco, clean and enormous headroom even into 4 ohms it leaves the big mosfet Mackies far behind.

Sooner or latter they will get them very close to sonic perfection.

Its a bit like comparing an electronic keyboard to a real one...almost but not quite.....


Ian

[edgewound]

Thank you Edgewound .


I am quiet interested in those amp and my purchase a pair but I can't unfortunately test them .

Does those amps sound like SS ; typical Tube , Neutral Tube or something else and do you think it worls ok with 43xx ?

Regards

Gerard

Gerard...

The setup I heard was a pair of Usher speakers and a pair of NuForce reference 9's. As with all electronics your own ears will be the ultimate determiner of sound quality. To me...this setup sounded very nice....very clean....like any good power amp should...plenty of bass presence...I'm sure they'd drive 43xx just fine. I'd buy them myself and probably will when they have the whole HT setup available. What I look for in electronics now is the most performance in the smallest package....that's why I love the Stewart Audio amps....1100 watts bridged mono @ 4 ohms, 1 rack space, weighs 11 pounds and sounds very good...and doesn't trip a 20 amp breaker with bass notes. I think this stuff is here to stay and will only get better with time....there are some real geniuses designing new gadgets and they are definitely worth a listen and a look. Speakers are a different story...you need cone area and displacement to move lots of air, and there are trade offs with big vs. small speaker enclosures with what they are able to acheive. Good luck with these new amps....I think you will enjoy what they do.

[scott fitlin]

Very interesting,

Would be fun to audition one.

I have tried the Bel Canto in my system.

Sounded dry and lifeless, and lacked the ambience and being there imaging of a JLH reference class A amp. They are popular with Apogee Stage users because they can drive very low impedance loads to around 600 watts or so bridged.

I have had good reports locally about the Camco, clean and enormous headroom even into 4 ohms it leaves the big mosfet Mackies far behind.

Sooner or latter they will get them very close to sonic perfection.

Its a bit like comparing an electronic keyboard to a real one...almost but not quite.....


IanSee, I agree with you to a point. I thought the Lab Gruppens sounded quite good, tightish sounding bottom, clean mids, but the impact wasnt there like a big heavy amp!

The touring guys like the Labs and the Camcos, they are clean, but alot also tell me they miss the sound of Crown 5K,s and the big Crests running subs, but they dont miss moving them around!

Another lightweight amp I thought has a fast snappy bottom is Chevin Research, but again, left me wanting for impact and weight on the deep end of things.

It happened to me this way; after the summer was over, I got fed up and threw my hands in the air, took out the Crown macros, and put the antiquities, I mean PSA-2,s back into the system, man, I was amazed at the bass, the way it sounds, the way it feels, and how I can run my bottom all nite long with virtually NO AUDIBLE thermal compression!

I swear it seems like the subs are getting down an octave lower!

My next favorite amps for sub bass duty is Crest! The Pro Series they no longer make, but the 7001,s and 8001,s and 9001,s do the do. Yes they do!

I tried, I really did, I wanted to find new technology that would please me, but for me, ITS GOTTA HAVE those BIG transformers and filter storage caps, and robust output stages! Got to have my Iron!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Scotty,

Nicely put......

Just shooting the breeze but bass is not like the rest of music. The average to peak power is much higher and that is where most of the power is needed.

I recall the Carver Cube was a bit like what you described, nice dynamics but hold a bass note and forget it.

There ain't nothing like a stored charge in a big chunk of iron and bunch of cans.

Ian

[edgewound]

Scotty...


I think what you're hearing and feeling with the old amps is lower damping factor and looser bass lag....If that's what you like....cool... But to me a slower sub-bass response is not as musical....and neither is rumble from drums. These newer amps I think are more accurate in the bass and will tell you how good/bad your speaker system responds. I love that tight controlled stop on a dime bass. I can't stand overbearing, brain-rattling kick drums that want to make me leave the room...I'm so tired of it....it's not music...it's just plain obnoxious....IMHO:D .

Anyway I gues the point comes back around to what you like...and that's perfectly ok. I guess as an aside...these switching type amps do need a good AC power source to work well...since it draws the current demand from the wall socket.

[scott fitlin]

Hi Scotty,

Nicely put......

Just shooting the breeze but bass is not like the rest of music. The average to peak power is much higher and that is where most of the power is needed.

I recall the Carver Cube was a bit like what you described, nice dynamics but hold a bass note and forget it.

There ain't nothing like a stored charge in a big chunk of iron and bunch of cans.

IanAgreed!

[scott fitlin]

Scotty...


I think what you're hearing and feeling with the old amps is lower damping factor and looser bass lag....If that's what you like....cool... But to me a slower sub-bass response is not as musical....and neither is rumble from drums. These newer amps I think are more accurate in the bass and will tell you how good/bad your speaker system responds. I love that tight controlled stop on a dime bass. I can't stand overbearing, brain-rattling kick drums that want to make me leave the room...I'm so tired of it....it's not music...it's just plain obnoxious....IMHO:D .

Anyway I gues the point comes back around to what you like...and that's perfectly ok.Actually, that was ONE of the things that impresses everyone! The old Crown PSA-2 plays bottom with authority and command!

With the macros, and to a degree even the crests, the bass drum doesnt have that instant whack, and equally instant stop!

The way each note starts and stops using the PSA-2,s is stunning! The PSA is NOT a rumbly sounding amp at all, tight, but deep. PSA 2 bass starts and stops on a dime, and can do this all nite long without wimping out!

Truthfully, I hear more notes using a PSA-2 or even a BGW 750D than any of todays Pro amps. For me, its todays Pro amps that tend to jumble all the notes together that give you that bottom that just drones, Car Bass I call it!

The PSA-2 happens to make a very tight sounding bottom. And, the PSA-2 has TREMENDOUS transient snap!

Ill tell ya an amp I also heard that excels for bass! The Bryston 14B SST!

I got a question for you Edgewound, why is it that alot of these newer technology lightweight amps that are rated for power well in excess of 1000wpc dont seem to really deliver like thier specs imply, and many of the older designs seem to go a hell of a lot further than their specs imply?

:)

[scott fitlin]

.

Anyway I gues the point comes back around to what you like...and that's perfectly ok. I guess as an aside...these switching type amps do need a good AC power source to work well...since it draws the current demand from the wall socket.I do have a dedicated 200 amp single phase service for my sound system, the main breaker is fed from a 400 amp leg of my 3 phase 800 amp main, and my panel is all 20 amp and 30 amp breakers, one outlet per breaker, no shared neutrals, and a dedicated seperate ground for this system.

Each amp has it own breaker, if I had an amp that needed a 65 amp breaker, I can run it, and run it properly!

AC power WILL never be something I am lacking.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hello

If your looking for the most watts cramed into the least space here's a link to Power Soft / Digams site http://pro-audio.powersoft.it/product_list.php?id_menu=271&id=97 .
As for the lower damping factor most crown amps have some of the highest damping factor ratings among amps in the bussiness. For anyone who is wondering damping factor is a value placed on a amp based on the impedance of the amps output measured between the + & - speaker terminals, the lower the better nearing a 0 ohm reading. What that does is the speaker is seeing a very low impedance across it's termianls cancelling any over excursion that is from the mass of the moving speaker cone still in motion when the signal calls for the cone to move in another direction. But.....in a system where you may have 50 feet of 12 or even 10 gauge speaker cable you have added enough resistance to the output to drop a damping factor that at the amp may have been well over a 1000 down to a 100 or so. It is always better to start out with it as high as possiable!
Scott, PSA's are great amps two of them were my first big amps back...way back in the day. I remember reading somewhere that Showco had a modification that turned them into something like a 700 watt or so per channel amp they called them a PSA2HX are something close to that. I'll try think were I read that from some years ago.

Mike Caldwell

[scott fitlin]

I have some modded PSA,s they do have more bang, but I prefer them without the power increase mods! Just sounds better to me.


I havent used PSA-2,s for about 3 years now, and when I put em back, I didnt expect to hear what I did. They just rock on subs.

I, too, have had PSA-2,s from way back in the day! In fact, I have the first production SA-2, serial number 0001.

:)

[John]

:useless:

This amp, That amp, This one smokes that one, This one hauls ass, That one sucks ass, Lets see some pictures of all these amps:banghead:

[edgewound]

Pics of the Reference 9http://pic6.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1131583821.jpg
and the Crown PSA-2
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/img/produits/thumb2/3/3/33085.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:window.open('/commun/window.php?lien=%2Fimg%2Fproduits%2Fnormal%2F3%2F3 %2F33085.jpg', '', 'width='+Math.min(screen.width,631)+',height='+Mat h.min(screen.height,352)+',location=no,toolbar=no, status=no,menubar=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes' );void(0);)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Measuring damping factor is quite interesting.

Run the amp open circuit at full voltage with a sine wave at the desire frequency, then apply the load and measure the variation.....I can't remember the formulae but its a good way of thinking about it.

Of course speakers aren't purely resistive and neither is music a pure sine wave so what happens with a real load might be somewhat diifferent.

Ian

[gerard]

Hello

Any news on the Nuforce ? Anyone test them ?

Gerard

[JBLnsince1959]

I just returned from CES and saw and heard the NuForce amps. They are quite impressive. You'll see more about these in the press. .

:hmm:

I'm a sucker for new tech.... ( but I always, listen , listen and listen until the First-Flush emotion is gone)

This will be fun......any news on the pre-amp?

[scott fitlin]

Well, I havent heard them, but, they seem to get consistently high regard in mags like Absolute Sound.