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View Full Version : condense/organize large threads into articles?



glen
12-27-2005, 01:19 PM
Some of the more popular threads run to hundreds of posts.
Quick and Dirty 4430's (showthread.php?t=3838)
Building the 4345/4344 (showthread.php?t=1812)
Discussion Thread JBL 4343 to 4344 upgrade (showthread.php?t=6633)

While these often have a LOT of great info in them the organization may be kind of haphazard. Would it be possible to have the originator of the thread, or a moderator, reorganize the material into a more concise article or thread that would be easier to review?

4313B
12-27-2005, 01:23 PM
I'd like to see the originator of the thread condense the material and submit it for publication. One thing that is irritating me more and more is the constant posting in Technical Help with respect to these various projects...

norealtalent
12-27-2005, 02:08 PM
I know there is a tremendous amount of information in the aforementioned threads, however I've never read through them due to the length. I've caught bits and pieces through topic searches but so much of it is too technical for my comprehesion or simply off topic and would take hours to read through. I'd forget what I was looking for before I got halfway through. I know condensation would be a huge undertaking but IMO well worthwhile. I have no idea what would be involved but I am willing to assist if instructed by a member more knowledgeable than myself. I hope I don't regret this! Thats right, it all about the journey...:bouncy:

Zilch
12-27-2005, 02:20 PM
While these often have a LOT of great info in them the organization may be kind of haphazard. Would it be possible to have the originator of the thread, or a moderator, reorganize the material into a more concise article or thread that would be easier to review?Agreed. Speaking for myself and Q&D, the lack of organization is a consequence of the project progress. It's organic and develops as it goes; there may be more value in the exposition of process than specific results.

I DO have an approach to making it easier to review, comprising a preface, linked table of contents, and summary. The problem with converting it to an article is loss of the information exchange that occurs along the way. Also, there ARE project forums which might be utilized, if means were developed to do it in an organized manner.

I don't know if many members are aware that there is a separate "Search" function for specific information WITHIN a thread at the top of each page therein. I used to find it terribly frustrating to be pointed to a thread by general search only to find that I had to wade through 19 pages in hopes of finding the relevant material. Now, I use a secondary thread search to find what's there, post by post.

I see Ian posting in 4345/4344, if I understand him correctly, that he would prefer that the material NOT be so organized and concise that it would be available to casual readers. Others seem to be desireous of, and commited to, doing it anyway.

With respect to location of this material in "Technical," I think we just went through that:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6714

There is a group of members who believe that forum should be restricted to material relating to repairing and restoring to original specifications. That's fine. Rename the hodge-podge that it currently is to someting else and start a new "Technical" section as has been discussed, with specific content rules, and then figure out how and who to police it.

spkrman57
12-27-2005, 02:20 PM
I was reading the "Performance series" thread today and only made it through 17 pages before I had to stop and take a break.

I was trying to get info on the PT800's(Thanks to Mike Baker who wants me to go broke) and I thought if I were to go through them once and cut and paste the pertinent info it could be more like a quick ref guide for future use.

Ron

Ian Mackenzie
12-27-2005, 02:29 PM
Hi Glen,

Unfortunately these forums are NOT set up for projects, nor does the originator have any control over the final content. I suppose one could pre prepare everthing and just post with hyperlink to one's own web page but this is a dscussion forum. So we have a bit of a paradox there.

Its not as though we are sitting around with nothing to do..stuff gets done when time permits and that often results is topics being out of sequence.

People like to thread jack around here too and quote mindless misinformation without even bothering to research what they are talking about.

Hence some threads are miles longer than need be. If you layed the Crossover Modifications thread on top of the Quick and Dirty 4430 thread (both largely written about the wrong things for the wrongs reasons ) they would cancel each other out with one post left in each stating I don't really know enough to comment further on the topic.

I often wonder what moderators do around here..NOT MUCH.

There was a debate over the whole diy/authentic technical data and restoration thing but as usual nothing resulted apart from even more determined efforts by some to turn the whole place into a JBL laughing stock....a crock of crap.. to be blunt.

Regards Discussion Thread JBL 4343 to 4344 upgrade (http://showthread.php/?t=6633)

For this reason I made this only a discussion thread and there is another 4343-4344 design thread. When there is sufficient interest and factual content from members I propose to add to that thread in a desireable sequence.

As I said elsewhere today if you are interesting to looking at one of these projects you will get o lot more out of buddying up with a mentor than any amount a information off the threads. Pm me if you want assistance.

However, it is becoming increasingly obvious here that those who seek such information and in a neat an tidy format do so for their own cottage profit and restore "restoration" industry.

You have to ask yourself what is in for the originator to offer such information, their time and effort to or make your job any easier while your selling out the genuine diy fans.

I may have to consider hefty a charge out rate by the hour for those who seek to really know what's what.

This place is what it is for better or for worse, I doubt if it will change much.

Zilch
12-27-2005, 02:52 PM
Unfortunately these forums are NOT set up for projects, nor does the originator have any control over the final content. I suppose one could pre prepare everthing and just post with hyperlink to one's own web page but this is a dscussion forum. So we have a bit of a paradox there.There ARE "Project Forums," of course.

Nobody has access to doing them, is all.... :(

norealtalent
12-28-2005, 06:50 AM
Partial


As I said elsewhere today if you are interesting to looking at one of these projects you will get o lot more out of buddying up with a mentor than any amount a information off the threads. Pm me if you want assistance.

However, it is becoming increasingly obvious here that those who seek such information and in a neat an tidy format do so for their own cottage profit and restore "restoration" industry.

You have to ask yourself what is in for the originator to offer such information, their time and effort to or make your job any easier while your selling out the genuine diy fans.

I may have to consider hefty a charge out rate by the hour for those who seek to really know what's what.

This place is what it is for better or for worse, I doubt if it will change much.
IMO ONLY!!! I do not think ANY of the threads should be hacked up into a concise readable format with the authentic version left no longer available. Originals can be kept and some form of revised version offered as a sub category.
Buddying up with a mentor is a wonderful way to learn but as Ian hinted, it is very exhaustive for the mentor and understandably, very few have the time, energy or ability to share at that level. I used to do everything the hard way, myself, because I hate "bugging" people to share what they have spent a lifetime learning just to give it away in a fleeting second because I asked for help. There are some wonderful people here who are happy to share at different levels. I have offered compensation to many people who have spent their time, energy and experience assisting me. Never once has anyone accepted, some were even insulted until they realized the gesture was made as a thank you rather than Me thinking I could pay them for priceless knowledge or services. I have given things to people around here, even paid the postage to them and never got so much as a thank you. I even had one member stiff me for $300 because I believe a mans word is everything while obviously he doesn't. I'll get over it but thats their loss cause Kharma is a bitch. Sharing is a cycle, not just a two way street. More often than not, I have nothing of value to offer in return to those who help me except my gratitude and Friendship. What I can offer is my help to those with less experience and knowledge, just as was done for me because everything in life is a cycle. This forum is a small cosmos, very diversified, for better or for worse, but it is what we have and will continue being what we make it... nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for sharing it with me.

glen
12-28-2005, 09:51 AM
Hi Glen,
...However, it is becoming increasingly obvious here that those who seek such information and in a neat an tidy format do so for their own cottage profit and restore "restoration" industry.


Hi Ian,

I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but it sounds like you're concerned about the the exploitation of the information in the forum for profit, meaning monetary gain?
That had never occurred to me, if that IS what you mean it might make an interesting "Forum Issues" thread to explore.

In any case I don't think that it is in the spirit of the site to extract a price for, or set up barriers to, the sharing of info here.

If you mean simply profiting by learning from the discourse on this site I think we all do to some degree. I learn a lot, and I value the information and the community that so willingly shares their knowledge. That's one reason that I have occasionally contributed some $$$ to the site (and it's about that time again).

glen
12-28-2005, 10:10 AM
IMO ONLY!!! I do not think ANY of the threads should be hacked up into a concise readable format with the authentic version left no longer available. Originals can be kept and some form of revised version offered as a sub category.


Hi NoRealTalent,

I would NEVER advocate the removal of the full length thread. I have waded through a few and found it very enlightening to follow the process of sharp minds poking and prodding at intricate issues bringing differing experiences and perspectives to the table.

Some times I feel like I've discovered an early manuscript for one of Shakespeare's plays, with corrections, strike-throughs, and scribbled notes in the margins that reveal the growth and evolution of the work.

But other times I would just like to see the final product, the play itself.

norealtalent
12-28-2005, 11:15 AM
Hi NoRealTalent,

I would NEVER advocate the removal of the full length thread. I have waded through a few and found it very enlightening to follow the process of sharp minds poking and prodding at intricate issues bringing differing experiences and perspectives to the table.

Some times I feel like I've discovered an early manuscript for one of Shakespeare's plays, with corrections, strike-throughs, and scribbled notes in the margins that reveal the growth and evolution of the work.

But other times I would just like to see the final product, the play itself.
Ditto:bouncy:

Hamilton
12-28-2005, 11:48 AM
Buddying up with a mentor is a wonderful way to learn but as Ian hinted, it is very exhaustive for the mentor and understandably, very few have the time, energy or ability to share at that level. I used to do everything the hard way, myself, because I hate "bugging" people to share what they have spent a lifetime learning just to give it away in a fleeting second because I asked for help. There are some wonderful people here who are happy to share at different levels.
Man, you nailed it! http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif

And while this is on topic I want to publicly thank Zilch for his many hours he gave to me in helping to get my 5.1 system off the ground. And not only is it off the ground, but it soars like an eagle; I couldn't be more pleased.

Thanks Ziller,
Hamilton

frank23
12-28-2005, 01:46 PM
As I don't want to spam zilch's quick and dirty thread, maybe here's the place to ask giskard and ian what the exact problem is with the Q&D thread?

I get a lot of information from it as I have 2420 / 2440 / 2344A / 2342 / 2382A / 2307 / 2308 / 2235 drivers / horns / lenses and Zilch is trying out a lot of combinations that I'd like to have the time or means to try out.

It might not be too scientific, but I read the Q&D in another way than I read the well informed postings of giskard and ian. Why can there not be room for both ways of looking at the JBL heritage?

We should be glad JBL components are so good still now that a forum like this exists and people find out and build new speakers with decade old components that JBL themselves also sold seperately to people to build their own speakers from.

Regards, Frank

johnaec
12-28-2005, 02:29 PM
...what the exact problem is with the Q&D thread?I agree. Zilch mentioned up front it was "Quick and Dirty" - not the be-all and end-all to speaker design and testing. At least it gives a lot of us some insight into the relative differences between certain combinations, especially since it's not dealing with modifications and such that are out of range of most of us, either financially or technically. If Zilch is a hack, what's that make the rest of us, who probably don't know a fraction of what Zilch does? Is this site supposed to be only for those that already know everything there is to know about JBL's? I for one find his experiments interesting and informative, if not always total "state of the art"...

John

spkrman57
12-28-2005, 03:58 PM
One that lets folks experiment and find their way around.

We all can't be resident experts, I know I am not one:p

Ron

Guido
12-28-2005, 04:27 PM
:barf: OMG!

The bad "end of the year mood" or what?

THIS IS THE BEST FORUM OF THE WWW!

Come on, find better one and post the link right here:
.................................................. ............

Ian Mackenzie
12-28-2005, 07:38 PM
I have not issues with what you lot decided on as long as it benefits the majority.

The irony is that everyman and his dog wants to chew the fat off a "Quality thread" and squeeze the jiucy bits into a nice ordered package and yet elsewhere we have python length threads with some useful but buried data that even the hierarchy can't get there heads around.

I am pleased with the initiative taken here.

On money, it is a problem and on other forums interlectual property is taken seriously. I would prefer to see a modest annual membership fee for regular members and for restorers (with an intent to profit from the information). The funds could be used for maintainence of the site and improvement.

I don't propose to post this in the forums issues for only it to be pounded to death with spammers who have no interest here.

I am going on holidays for a bit..enjoy.

Ian

norealtalent
12-28-2005, 08:58 PM
I would be very happy to have compensation required for "membership privelages." I hate fees! :biting:

Have a nice holiday Ian, we'll burn, I mean, hold the fort while you're gone.:D

Ian Mackenzie
12-29-2005, 03:41 AM
Incidentally,

Something most of you propably have skipped over, the inception of the 4343-4344 thread was of Porschedman, (Ed) who asked me over 12 month ago to build some new crossovers for his 4343's that he had updated to 4344 driver specs.

Ed has yet to install the new crossovers and write an detailed review which I would expect sometime in Feb -April 2006 pending Ed's schedule.

The reason I bring this up is the "project" is still in a state of flux and if with the arrival of the now new "DIY Forum everything gets chopped up and the whole continuity of the project will be lost.

I should also point out that prior to publication of the 4343 -4344 upgrade project there was such contentious resistance to the idea by Super Moderator Robert Hamel that the project was nearly dropped.

Robert, fearing members might not hear the difference would therefore have post-project concerns over there being a lack of value for money for the effort and the outlay involved. This reaction served and prompted me into investigating and proving the updates even more rigorously.

What eventuated was quite revealing.

My approach is simple. Take nothing for granted and assume nothing when it comes to this business..

Old ears and attitudes are deaf ears in this business.

But if you are the cautious type you may want to wait for Ed's reviews and then make up your own mind.

Collectively however, if you follow and read carefully all the steps in the 4343 upgrade stages common sense prevails and there is justification and satisfaction to behold by every 4343 owner. Even the most passive changes like enclosure height adjustments and positioning can be the difference b/ n love and hate with these systems.

Change is often good and refreshes our sensory perceptions. Even Ed was surprised after some hounding by me at the overall improvement reverting back to full 4343 passive crossover mode made with his Passlabs X Series 250 power amplifier over using the Ashly active crossover in bi amp mode. The point being if the expertise and reasoning behind this was not pointed out in the way it was Ed would never have made the change and been non the wiser. This is a key behaviour in attaining the ultimate in audio sound reproduction. Don't let sticks in the mud stop you from progressing, walk over them if you have to.

It is interesting to note that JBL also resisted the innovation and introduction of the L250 designed by Greg Timbers for some time and it was then latter upgraded to the 250Ti and remains one of the best JBL systems of all time.

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/l250.htm