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norealtalent
12-21-2005, 05:48 AM
Thank you to all who encouraged and assisted me in this (and all my endeavors.) A special thanks to Sherwood Davies at Westlake Audio who went out of his way to provide the technical information I needed. And thank you all for allowing me the greatest joy of audio, having people as passionate as myself to share it with. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speakers/Professional_Series/bbsm15.html

Each cab is loaded with (2) 2235H, (1) 2122H, (1) 2426J and a WICKED hand custom built 3 way bi-ampable crossover.

Preliminary listening results are in:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif

I have them both up and running for preliminary
testing (temporarilly on their sides due to space limitations!) I think I will like them very much. I've only listened about 40 minutes but I think they are going to be amazing. They have so much of what I love my JBL's for but are cleaner, quicker and more defined. When I try to think of how to describe them, I can't. The differences are distinct yet so undefineable with a first impression. I am using the factory passive x's, powered by 300wpc SS Perreaux PMF3150 bottom and 40wpc tube Goldentube Audio SE40 on top, Goldentube SEP-1 SE preamp(for now.) The SE40 just isn't enough for the lower mids but thats what was in the rack. I'll upgrade to the 100wpc tube CJ Premiere Four later today. First impressions: they have the SLF of a 250ti with the PUNCH of an L300. They have a smooth HF , even with the titanium diaphragm, without the harshness of a 4343. When I fired them up, my wife came in and even sat down to listen! After a few minutes she smiled and said,"What do you think? I like them." Black "refrigerators" in the livingroom with high WAF!!! Ken is right, these are a whole different league. More on that later...Davehttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

korgroenewoud
12-21-2005, 06:51 AM
They look great.

Are ther JBL speakers in the system? The cones look the same as the 2235H series and the 2123H??

yggdrasil
12-21-2005, 07:22 AM
Nice. Allways more fun when the wife is pleased...

Titanium Dome
12-21-2005, 07:49 AM
(Snip)They have a smooth HF , even with the titanium diaphragm, without the harshness of a 4343. When I fired them up, my wife came in and even sat down to listen! After a few minutes she smiled and said,"What do you think? I like them." Black "refrigerators" in the livingroom with high WAF!!! Ken is right, these are a whole different league. More on that later...Davehttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif


Don't you mean "They have a smooth HF because of the Titanium diaphragm..." hmmm? That's what I thought. :yes:

Congratulations.

JuniorJBL
12-21-2005, 08:12 AM
Don't you mean "They have a smooth HF because of the Titanium diaphragm..." hmmm? That's what I thought. :yes:

Congratulations.

Always a dome here somewhere:applaud:

Mr. Widget
12-21-2005, 10:25 AM
Congratulations! I'd love to hear them. Ken spoke glowingly of a pair he heard in LA recently... though I think he may be slightly biased.:D

I do think they are aesthetically challenged, but there is nothing wrong with them that a $1000 worth of veneer and a "ragged" tweeter couldn't fix.;)


Widget

Ken Pachkowsky
12-21-2005, 11:13 AM
Ken spoke glowingly of a pair he heard in LA recently... though I think he may be slightly biased.:D

I do think they are aesthetically challenged.


Widget

Who......ME! :bs:

See what I mean Dave! Get ready to take some ribbing and snickering from these boys. Until they own/listen to a pair in there own environment we must pitty them and show patience. Think of them as "lost balls in the tall weeds". :screwy: :bouncy:

Welcome to the world of "once you try black, you will never go back!"

Merry Christmas all..

Ken

norealtalent
12-21-2005, 01:29 PM
Congratulations! I'd love to hear them. Ken spoke glowingly of a pair he heard in LA recently... though I think he may be slightly biased.:D

I do think they are aesthetically challenged, but there is nothing wrong with them that a $1000 worth of veneer and a "ragged" tweeter couldn't fix.;)


Widget

Thanks guys. Anyone coming through this way is more than welcome to stop in for a listen, you could probably even get a nice dinner out of the deal.
Hey Dome, can you say beryllium?:p (burr illlllllll eee ummmmmm)
Yes Widget, we already know Ken is biased, but not without GOOD reason.:D I would not believe it if I didn't experience it with my own equipment in my own livingroom. I've already talked to some buddies about a veneer job and hinted to Ian about an x for a pair of those ragged paper weights I've got lying around here.
Ahh Ken, the proverbial I told you so! I'll take the ribbing, they're worth it. I'm not saying they're the end all but Alex has already given the ok to move a door so they can be properly oriented. She likes em'.:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
There is no destination, only the journey...Dave :bouncy:

Ken Pachkowsky
12-21-2005, 01:33 PM
I am just trying to get a rise outa everyone. I like to dish it out but can take it as well.:bouncy:

norealtalent
12-21-2005, 02:39 PM
I'm on the computer. Alex comes home, says,"Why aren't your speakers playing? Can I get on the computer?" Response: "They've been playing all day..." I go downstairs to find that she left a Bruce disc sitting there. I turn on the system and start the disc. She comes down, smiles, pulls my listening chair out and sits down smiling. She's still there... Westlake Heaven :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

edgewound
12-21-2005, 03:01 PM
I'm on the computer. Alex comes home, says,"Why aren't your speakers playing? Can I get on the computer?" Response: "They've been playing all day..." I go downstairs to find that she left a Bruce disc sitting there. I turn on the system and start the disc. She comes down, smiles, pulls my listening chair out and sits down smiling. She's still there... Westlake Heaven :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

That's very cool....

I bet the Christmas jazz recordings will have never sounded sweeter.

Congrats...and... a very Merry Christmas to you all.

4313B
12-21-2005, 03:01 PM
Until they own/listen to a pair in there own environment we must pitty them and show patience.Never gonna happen, couldn't care less. I'm a 100% JBL loyalist. The amount of stuff I can do with JBL transducers will keep me sufficiently occupied until I expire.

4313B
12-21-2005, 03:04 PM
Preliminary listening results are in:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif Cool! Congratulations! :)

edgewound
12-21-2005, 03:05 PM
Never gonna happen, couldn't care less. I'm a 100% JBL loyalist. The amount of stuff I can do with JBL transducers will keep me sufficiently occupied until I expire.

Aww, c'mon Giskard....they wouldn't be what they are without JBL drivers. I hardly see that as treason.

4313B
12-21-2005, 03:07 PM
Aww, c'mon Giskard....they wouldn't be what they are without JBL drivers. I hardly see that as treason.Oh, ok... I suppose not... :rotfl:

norealtalent
12-21-2005, 03:28 PM
Never gonna happen, couldn't care less. I'm a 100% JBL loyalist. The amount of stuff I can do with JBL transducers will keep me sufficiently occupied until I expire.

I'm with you Giskard. I can use JBL's and build what I want for 1/4 of what I can get for the 43's. Thats why I sold 6 pair and I'm sure I'll sell this pair and the Westlakes (eventually.) I couldn't pass up the steal deal on the Westlakes, easilly worth double. They're money in the bank and kick ass speakers to boot. And they are JBL, only better, tweaked, just like so many of the mods developed by hardcore forum members like yourself. All of the killer speakers I've gotten to experience give me a reference point. I'm tickled to have been able to experience these and I'd love to share them with anybody who'll listen! That's what all of this is about to me, the journey. My 250ti's are probably the only speakers I'll keep forever. They are one of the most incredible JBL values ever built. Nobody will ever give me what I think they're worth so they can sit here, they're pretty, they don't sound too bad either... even if they don't have horns. Besides, it's likely I'll always have something bigger, better, badder lurking in the corners.:bouncy:

norealtalent
12-26-2005, 09:03 PM
Greetings everyone. Hope we all had a wonderful holiday. I got 8 new Mullards for my CJ and replaced the Goldentube SE40 with it. I also properly refoamed the Westies 2122's and installed proper dust caps. Haven't done the 2235's yet but tomorrow's a new day.
Played some Nora Jones, Eddie Brickell, Led Zeppelin, a bunch of bluesy jazz stuff I don't know the names of, some Dave Mathews, Robert Lucas and of course concluded with the Master, Stevie Ray.

Secondary listening test results are as follows:

Anybody wanna buy a REALLY nice pair of 4343's? :D

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Charlie4350
12-26-2005, 10:17 PM
Are they for sale?



Anybody wanna buy a REALLY nice pair of 4343's? http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

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Ken Pachkowsky
12-26-2005, 11:07 PM
Never gonna happen, couldn't care less. I'm a 100% JBL loyalist. The amount of stuff I can do with JBL transducers will keep me sufficiently occupied until I expire.

Please donít take this as a challenge but Westlake would not be around if it were not for JBL. We are all JBL loyalists!

But is it not possible that Westlake took over where JBL left off? They refine the crossovers, horns and cabinets with a somewhat "money no object" approach? It strikes me that several members are working on improving the performance of standard JBL crossovers and horns?

Beatrice Foods and Harmon International would never have targeted such a small market. Hell, Harmon won't even make the Japanese 43xx series available in the USA because itís not viable according to their marketing people.

Westlake will never succeed as a mainstream manufacturer. They are simply too expensive. They will continue to plug along and sell a few million dollars a year worth of esoteric boxes.

The large format studio monitor has gone the way of the dinosaur as have the large recording facilities with multiple control rooms and millions of dollars worth of analog equipment.

I spent a day last month with Bruce Robb. He and his brother Dee run one of the largest and most successful recording studios in LA. Cherokee Studios has been in the same location for over 30 years. Their client list is that of legends, with countless platinum, gold etc albums plastered all over the walls. Bruce informed me they were shutting down 4 of the six audio control rooms due to a lack of demand. The home based Pro-tool bedroom studios are decimating the industry. Donít get me wrong, a good argument could and should be made supporting the increased access to recording facilities by young financially strapped artists. What burns my butt is the price being paid.

Sound Engineering Schools are pumping out would be engineers like IT technicians, a dime a dozen. These engineers train on Pro-tools and cheap self powered near-field monitors and have never heard anything like a 4350 or 4344. They get out of school, put together 25 grand and buy a digital system and throw it in some basement and rent it out for 30 bucks an hour. Read the credits on some of the crap coming out these days. As far as studio credits ďthere is noneĒ because it was recorded on a computer in somebodyís bedroom not a studio at all.

Anyway, like you all I have a passion for JBL that runs every bit as deep as anyone on this forum and would not settle for anything less.

Have a great New Years!

Steve Gonzales
12-27-2005, 12:27 AM
I talked to NRT just a few hours ago and said " So no more JBL huh?", he replied, "These ARE JBL's!", there would be no Westlake or TAD if it wasn't for JBL. We spoke of the immense time it took to hand wind the coils in the crossovers, test and spec out the individual componants and tweek the existing engineering to another level , is what it's all about, something that JBL could not do and still mass produce (relatively speaking) their stuff and turn a profit. I think of them (Westlake) now as like-minded people with the same passion except they have $$$$ to work with and enough of a market to stay viable. Hell, I'm starting to dream about buying a pair of TAD 4003's!!!.

BTW, Norealtalent's 4343wx's are some of the NICEST 43's on the planet, not mint, but CLOSE, real close S.G.;)

norealtalent
12-27-2005, 05:36 AM
Are they for sale?
They will be as soon as I can get my foo foo in one sock to document all the driver serials and take detailed pics. :bouncy:

Ian Mackenzie
12-27-2005, 10:21 AM
Just reviewed this thread and in plain english someone outside the fish tank might be asking what and where's the sense in comparing a system designed in the 70's for a price with that of the 80's price no object design??

Perhaps if you where comparing say a K2 like the 9500 to the Westlake BBSM15 it would be more a head to head contest.

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/k2.htm

norealtalent
12-27-2005, 10:57 AM
Any comparissions I have made are only in regards to the speakers I have experienced, something to give a reference point. My intention with this thread is to share my experience of the Westlakes with fellow members, not compare them to 43XX's. I loved my first pair of 43's so much that for the next 4 years I bought every pair I could find. Now the time has come to move on. I will always hold the 43's in high regards while recognizing they are lacking some of the things I desire in a loudspeaker, just like the BBSM15's. I am already on the hunt for a "3B's" pair. If those end up being K2's or Westlake or some other esoterics, so be it. What I do know is they will be JBL underneath because a house is only as strong as it's foundation.
There is no destination, only the journey...:bouncy: