PDA

View Full Version : Horn system pictures



matsj
12-19-2005, 07:18 AM
Merry cristhmas to everyone.

All you people with horn system can´t you post some pictures to look at now when it´s dark and cold.

Regards mats

Tom Brennan
12-19-2005, 01:06 PM
My Heathkit AS-21s, Altec 9844s in nice cabinets from 1961.

carolus
12-19-2005, 01:17 PM
Merry cristhmas to everyone.

All you people with horn system can´t you post some pictures to look at now when it´s dark and cold.

Regards mats
My little (home made) multi horn system. Big Klipschorn, Western Electric WE66A, Vitavox 1/1, vitavox 1/2, and EV. It's good for a complete Mahler orhester (and symphony).
To all: Good end year, and fine music in 2006

norealtalent
12-19-2005, 01:24 PM
My little (home made) multi horn system. Big Klipschorn, Western Electric WE66A, Vitavox 1/1, vitavox 1/2, and EV. It's good for a complete Mahler orhester (and symphony).
To all: Good end year, and fine music in 2006

Ok, now it's my turn to be jealous.:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: More pics please!:bouncy:

Titanium Dome
12-19-2005, 04:15 PM
I know I have a reputation for dissing horns, but in addition to my 4430 and SVA1800 horn systems, I also have this special JBL horn. The more JBLs I get, the bigger my horn gets. I like to insert it into port openings to assist in lifting heavy JBL enclosures.

Michael Smith
12-19-2005, 04:35 PM
When going through todays posts I said to myself great chairs, simple design etc!
Wasn't till I went back to have a closer look that the great anvil fell out of the sky waking me up, thought I would share my silliness.
Still great chairs.
Michael

norealtalent
12-19-2005, 07:03 PM
When going through todays posts I said to myself great chairs, simple design etc!
Wasn't till I went back to have a closer look that the great anvil fell out of the sky waking me up, thought I would share my silliness.
Still great chairs.
Michael

AHHH, thank you. When I showed Alex the pics, she likened them to a cascading waterfall thinking they were ornamental furniture "too beautiful to be speakers.":bouncy:

hmolwitz
12-19-2005, 07:42 PM
My homemeade Smithhorns w/Altec 299-8a and Santana Cabs with 515-8g.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/606c7a2c82.jpg
Pending a complete rethink of the horn design, I really want the horn inside but the cabinet is small.
I love those 9844s, I have 4 601c drivers and am pondering a 9844 design perhaps with a midrange to prevent premature destruction of the tweeters, any thoughts?

Wardsweb
12-19-2005, 08:03 PM
Living room A7 - 825 cab Voice of the Theater with the grill off

mafuta
12-19-2005, 09:08 PM
Here is mine.

[img=http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2483/horns053jpg3tg.th.jpg] (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=horns053jpg3tg.jpg)

johnaec
12-19-2005, 09:11 PM
Here is mine.What's driving the big "room corner" horns?

John

mafuta
12-19-2005, 09:19 PM
Mac MC352

Sorry can't seem to post the picture itself.

Whole system here
www.aca.gr/pop_dreyer.htm (http://www.aca.gr/pop_dreyer.htm)

Mr. Widget
12-19-2005, 10:44 PM
Mac MC352

Sorry can't seem to post the picture itself.

Whole system here
www.aca.gr/pop_dreyer.htm (http://www.aca.gr/pop_dreyer.htm)Here it is... Cool system... low res image.

I wonder why some people have trouble posting images? Any of you power computer users have any ideas?

Widget

Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2005, 11:47 PM
The best part about these is they usually sound as good as they look...:applaud:

ngccglp
12-20-2005, 12:56 AM
My A7s, and future heir. The L222 is awaiting for new 104H :D

golem841
12-20-2005, 01:54 AM
My little (home made) multi horn system. Big Klipschorn, Western Electric WE66A, Vitavox 1/1, vitavox 1/2, and EV. It's good for a complete Mahler orhester (and symphony).
To all: Good end year, and fine music in 2006

Hi Karel,
I still think your system is one of the very best I had the opportunity to listen to !
Are your tube amps and cross-over finished ?
Did Bruno came with is Digital amps to your place to make a try ??? (I know you hate them ...)

have a nice day
Yves

RacerXtreme
12-20-2005, 04:31 AM
Which system is the most spectacular? The Molinear site from France gets my vote as #1, but he's got to lay down some veneer on the cabinets for the 30" Fostex woofers. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/wink.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://www.mypages.iparenting.com/webs/racerxtreme/bighorns1.jpg

http://www.mypages.iparenting.com/webs/racerxtreme/hornz1.jpg


http://www.mypages.iparenting.com/webs/racerxtreme/Ubangi.jpg

http://www.mypages.iparenting.com/webs/racerxtreme/bighorns.jpg

http://www.mypages.iparenting.com/webs/racerxtreme/Molinear4.jpg

caladois
12-20-2005, 06:21 AM
My actual small horn speakers. In France too ....
regards Stephane

carolus
12-20-2005, 08:07 AM
Hi Karel,
I still think your system is one of the very best I had the opportunity to listen to !
Are your tube amps and cross-over finished ?
Did Bruno came with is Digital amps to your place to make a try ??? (I know you hate them ...)

have a nice day
Yves
Hello, hello, hello Yves.
Fine to read you.
Aië, aië, aië, my "tube-X-over-24dB" is tuning in a nightmare. But, one night he shall transport the music. At this moment i listen to a CD BACH (BWV12).
And or audio friend Bruno (the great Tacticus-doctorandus from the Nord) is always welcome in the 'Flanders-audio-campus" for a quickly test with his pandora "tact-amp".
But you know me, i feel no need for "digital-sound-management" in a "normal home invironnement" with good tuned horn system...
I am clear, i do'nt hate Tact situations. It is not my (musical) "diapason", and i respect each of us individualy diapason (or concept philosophy)....
Yves , i am from the old audio school ....
Let's feel the music emotions ....
yves, let's talk about your home brewed (fait maison) "Iwata" (family) project ... If you need help, let me know.
A good "maestro-horn-builder" in Iwata (horn) application (and more bigger) is or friend (Johan) "MAFUTA" (a new Roggero). Ask him (and go listen) for all your (wet)horn dreams ...magnificent ...gorgeous.

Yves, i wish you a good and safe year end. A great new year 2006 (and much longer), with ambitious audio project and (important) in harmony with your (home) family ....

Allez, salukes and "au revoir".
A+
Karel

carolus
12-20-2005, 02:28 PM
Mac MC352

Sorry can't seem to post the picture itself.

Whole system here
www.aca.gr/pop_dreyer.htm (http://www.aca.gr/pop_dreyer.htm)²

Hi Johan,
congratulations with your "great" and spectacular new audio concept (before Christmas).
I can feel (barefoot!) the "bas" in my back garden ....
Allez, salukes en tot "horens".
Karel

mafuta
12-20-2005, 09:05 PM
Karel

It was the photos of your magnificent system that started it! Especially the wood Iwatas.They continue to amaze me.Surely the most unhorn sounding horn ever!

The fat Iwata with the JBL 2490 was really the biggest surprise.It sounds so natural and undistorted. At times I almost think it is my old Quad electrostats(Of course until the dynamics swing in and I find myself in the kitchen!).That from a driver that has been called a "tin can" on this forum and elsewhere.

Thanks again for all your advice; the Iwatas,scaling up an Iwata,putting me on to ALE and then Goto and (most importantly) the alignment of the drivers

Johan

golem841
12-21-2005, 07:55 AM
Karel

It was the photos of your magnificent system that started it! Especially the wood Iwatas.They continue to amaze me.Surely the most unhorn sounding horn ever!

The fat Iwata with the JBL 2490 was really the biggest surprise.It sounds so natural and undistorted. At times I almost think it is my old Quad electrostats(Of course until the dynamics swing in and I find myself in the kitchen!).That from a driver that has been called a "tin can" on this forum and elsewhere.

Thanks again for all your advice; the Iwatas,scaling up an Iwata,putting me on to ALE and then Goto and (most importantly) the alignment of the drivers

Johan

Hello "Mafuta"

I own a pair of 2490H drivers loaded in 2392 horns ; these are very big and quite ugly from my wife's opinion ...
(http://www.jblpro.com/pages/cinema/5000.htm#5671=)

After my visit to Karel, I'm almost ready to build Iwata Horns (1inch for the TAD2001 and ... 3 inches for the 2490) plus maybe a bass horn with 2 Altec 416 8A
Did you experimented anything else for the 2490 ?
Thank you
Yves

mafuta
12-21-2005, 11:32 AM
Hi

No.I wanted to use a larger Iwata from 250 to 1kHz.Upscaling the Iwata 1.5X gave me a 3 inch throat and exactly 1 suitable driver in the whole world i.e .2490. So I bought a new pair blind.Hence the surprise about the sound of the tin can.Other avenues included 2482,Altec 290 or twin Goto 505(ouch!) on suitable adaptors ,but then the fat Iwata would have become too deep ,making physical alignment difficult (Karel will bend your ear on that! -but I fully agree on the importance thereof).

BTW you will not be sorry for all the hours (and money) spent on the Iwatas.Warning A fat Iwata plus driver must weigh close on 100kg!

Good luck

Johan

Titanium Dome
12-21-2005, 03:46 PM
Okay all you hornies, no messing around this time. From Crystal Method's Legion of Boom comes this image replete with horns, arrays, and direct radiators.

House de Kris
12-23-2005, 01:30 PM
OK, there have been some pretty awe inspiring pictures here of horn systems. I'll bring this thread back down to Earth with a more humble common-man take on horns. My picture is of a couple systems I usually use outdoors, typically back-to-back. Although, in this picture they are side-by-side for testing purposes indoors.

mikebake
12-23-2005, 02:35 PM
My A7s, and future heir.

That's a handsome boy! Look at that smile!

CONVERGENCE
12-23-2005, 04:18 PM
Hi all,

I have a nice pair of A5 Altec Lansing in lounge room setting :all natural wood "



:)

Zilch
12-23-2005, 08:27 PM
Hi all,

I have a nice pair of A5 Altec Lansing in lounge room setting :all natural wood "

:)Not without pictures posted here, you don't....

Nope. :no:

Ian Mackenzie
12-23-2005, 09:39 PM
How about these Kleinhorns hand build by some students of Mr Pass.

RacerXtreme
12-24-2005, 10:03 AM
Those Kleinhorns look impressive. How do they sound?

21" woofers? Made by who?

Ian Mackenzie
12-24-2005, 10:49 AM
Nice articles here : http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm

norealtalent
12-24-2005, 08:43 PM
Nice articles here : http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm

Thanks Ian. Very interesting. I love the EL PIPE-O project and where it got it's name is a hoot! :bouncy:

RacerXtreme
12-25-2005, 05:49 PM
Checked the site they listed for the 21" woofers and couldn't find them. Did they discontinue that model ?

Hmmmm..................

Tom Brennan
12-26-2005, 06:34 PM
That kleinhorn looks like a huge waste of time and material. All that work and you still have a lousy direct radiator above, what, 150-200hz? Big deal.

And yeah, I've heard plenty of Lowther and Fostex rear-horns and always been underwhelmed. Overly damped speakers that need rear-horn loading to make any bass at all, I call it horn-loading in self-defense. It's easier (and more sensible) to simply use such drivers as simple direct radiators in open baffles and augment them with a good box sub, something from Madisound.

Zilch
12-26-2005, 06:41 PM
That kleinhorn looks like a huge waste of time and material.Perhaps, but lots of FUN doin' it, too, I betcha.... :D

Tom Brennan
12-26-2005, 07:08 PM
"Perhaps, but lots of FUN doin' it, too, I betcha.... http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"

I dunno Zilch, I was in construction for a living, 35 years a Boilermaker, and I hate to see wasted effort. Besides, I never enjoyed having tools in my hands unless I was being paid scale.;) Building boxes was something I was willing to do but I enjoyed playing with the drivers not building the boxes.

norealtalent
12-26-2005, 10:13 PM
OK, OK, whatever man... but they sure are interesting to look at. I LOVE devices, especially big ones, with woofers and tweeters and mids, oh my!:bouncy:

Ian Mackenzie
12-26-2005, 11:48 PM
That kleinhorn looks like a huge waste of time and material. All that work and you still have a lousy direct radiator above, what, 150-200hz? Big deal.

And yeah, I've heard plenty of Lowther and Fostex rear-horns and always been underwhelmed. Overly damped speakers that need rear-horn loading to make any bass at all, I call it horn-loading in self-defense. It's easier (and more sensible) to simply use such drivers as simple direct radiators in open baffles and augment them with a good box sub, something from Madisound.

You might change your mind if you are fortunate enough to own an Passlabs F1..only 100 made.

The F1 tackles the above misgivings head on ..read the other articles and the reviews to find out more.

jbl_man_uk
12-30-2005, 07:48 AM
Checked the site they listed for the 21" woofers and couldn't find them. Did they discontinue that model ?

Hmmmm..................

Try http://www.precisiondevices.co.uk/home.asp these are made in UK,and are used in Turbosound concert PA rigs and alike.they list both 21" and 24" drivers.

MatthiasA
01-22-2006, 03:49 PM
yeah :-) i love horns :-)

hapy._.face
01-22-2006, 04:20 PM
..this guy digs horns, too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40057000/jpg/_40057390_horn.jpg

hapy._.face
02-02-2006, 09:57 AM
Any more horn pics out there? I was really enjoying this thread- since I have a new found love of smith horns.. (thanks, Dave!!)

A Vanderkruk
04-10-2006, 12:09 PM
Horn pics

A Vanderkruk
04-10-2006, 12:27 PM
More Bentwood ,JBL Driven, 2245h in the Fatman, 2482 on the Bentwood 200hz ,altec 4168b in my chopped split A210 and small masher 2410. JBL DSC 260 active X over Timed and Power to spare.SOOO SWEET ,HORNS RULE. The TrailerPark Boys Have been busy!

matsj
04-10-2006, 12:27 PM
Very nice pictures.

mats

northwood
04-11-2006, 01:20 PM
crazy horns

glen
04-25-2006, 12:15 PM
... but sometimes you can really get into it.

hapy._.face
05-07-2006, 07:05 PM
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/albums/singledriver/P2190001.jpg
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10091/pic-horn1.jpg
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/FloT300.jpg
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/albums/singledriver/P2190002.jpg

jack_bouska
09-01-2006, 09:49 AM
I couldn't resist posting some pictures of my current favourite horns (well, technically waveguides actually).
I just finished building these last week, and on the whole, I'm really pleased with the results of these Oblate Spheroid waveguides, which were designed according to Earl Geddes papers.
I set the angular coverage to be +/- 40degrees., and my initial frequency response measurement of spl response vs. polar angle for the waveguide on the JBL2441 (2" exit compression driver), track 0-40 degrees from 1khz to 10khz, within +/- 1.5db (diverging above 10khz, where the diaphragm break-up starts). Beyond 40degrees (40-75deg) the amplitude drops off like a rock.
The frequency response measurement of spl response vs. angle of the waveguide on the TAD2002 (1" exit compression driver) track 0-40degrees from 1khz to 20khz, within +/- 2db (no evidence of any diaphragm break-up). Beyond 40degrees (40-75deg) the response also drops rapidly.
The waveguides have decent impulse and the waterfall plots also look respectable. The waveguide mouth termination (acoustic impedance matching) is also not too bad, with only a modest amount of ripple (+/- 2db on the 2", and +/- 1db on the 1") visible on the linear scale cumulative spectral decay plots.
The 1" exit waveguide expansion curve is a stock Oblate spheroid shape, with a 1/2 round radius at the 8" diameter mouth.
The 2" exit waveguide is a compound shape, starting with oblate spheroid from mouth continuing to 3/4 of horn length, where it merges (seamlessly) into a tractrix taper for the last 1/4 of the waveguide, to the mouth, finishing in a 1/4 round radius curve to the outside edge.
The sound is very natural, and well recorded live instruments sound convincingly very real.
Jack Bouska

hjames
09-01-2006, 11:35 AM
Well, they sure look gorgeous - great work, Jack!

Titanium Dome
09-02-2006, 08:59 AM
Are you going to post your graphs? I'd sure love to see them. :yes:

Tom Brennan
09-02-2006, 11:56 AM
I knew the guy who owned those big blue rear horns, they sounded kind'a bad, WAY too much midrange and weak bass. I heard them with various Fostex drivers and perhaps Lowthers, I'm not sure about the Lowthers.

Woofer
09-02-2006, 09:56 PM
What can I say??? (... my maid died???)

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5595/mymess1ec8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

4530 Scoops/J-bins on the bottom with 2215A's in 'em. They go down OK with a bit of coaxing from a Phase Linear 700.
The 4301BE's are mint and self powered and sound a treat for late night easy listening.
L40's powered with a B&O 7700 which also run a pair of B&O S802's. (Amazing how similar to JBL's they sound.)
There's also a 2345 Horn with a 2420 added on top now, powered by a Crown D75 via a Crown VFX2A but this is an old photo, and last but not least, a pair of 077 Slots on top.
Mix'n'match at will.
You're lucky you can't see the other side of the room!!!
Listening distance, 3 metres.

speakerdave
09-02-2006, 10:18 PM
Ya, you never know when something will come in handy.

David

norealtalent
09-02-2006, 10:23 PM
Ya, you never know when something will come in handy.

David

And when you do, you won't be able to find it! :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Woofer
09-02-2006, 10:32 PM
And when you do, you won't be able to find it! :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

... too true.

I've spent the last week looking for a set of 3 x 2308 lenses that are hidden underneath it all somewhere!!!

:-(

Storm
09-03-2006, 03:08 AM
My set of 846u speakers. 811B horns with 416 woofers.

;)

hapy._.face
09-03-2006, 06:33 AM
What can I say??? (... my maid died???)


You're lucky you can't see the other side of the room!!!



I have a feeling your maid is in that room somewhere but she can't find her way out!

Phil Mundi
09-03-2006, 09:27 AM
"The Nubian" HORNS Phil Mundi production
http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250025082677&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1


http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/08/3e/83/f4_1.JPG
http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/33/71/6f_1.JPG

Steve Schell
09-03-2006, 10:29 AM
Hi Jack,

You have done some really fine work! I am impressed both by your logical approach to the design and the excellent execution of the many fine details; DIY at its best; you are a true craftsman.

You might consider posting some pictures of your project over on the Audio Asylum High Efficiency Speakers Forum. There have been several threads on the oblate spheroid waveguide there in the past, and Dr. Geddes has participated in these. You might want to do a search there for Dr. Geddes' past posts, as he has gone into considerable detail in explaining these waveguides.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/HUG/bbs.html

Hoerninger
09-03-2006, 10:35 AM
These are extremely beautiful wooden horns. On eBay there are a lot of pictures under this link http://membres.lycos.fr/brokaz/
It looks like building instructions, but the creator must be very skilled.
____________
Peter

pentictonklaus
09-03-2006, 03:07 PM
[quote=Phil Mundi]
"The Nubian" HORNS Phil Mundi production
http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250025082677&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1


http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/08/3e/83/f4_1.JPG
http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/33/71/6f_1.JPG

I just bought these horns. Communication with Phil has been excellent.
My brother was able to read the web site in Dutch and also paid for it.
Will keep everybody posted when they arrive.
Klaus

Phil Mundi
09-04-2006, 10:35 AM
Hello Klaus,
http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250025711866&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
The adress above is a new one auction (04-09-2006)!! for a friends mayby??
See you later.
Phil





[quote=Phil Mundi]
"The Nubian" HORNS Phil Mundi production

http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250025082677&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1


http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/08/3e/83/f4_1.JPG
http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/33/71/6f_1.JPG

I just bought these horns. Communication with Phil has been excellent.
My brother was able to read the web site in Dutch and also paid for it.
Will keep everybody posted when they arrive.
Klaus

Zilch
09-04-2006, 01:31 PM
I'm not getting this. 2404, 2342, 2344(A), PH316, even, cheeks are not spherical. :(

[Let's see the polar response measurements, please....]

pentictonklaus
09-04-2006, 07:18 PM
[quote=Zilch]I'm not getting this. 2404, 2342, 2344(A), PH316, even, cheeks are not spherical. :(

Hello Zilch !

I am fully aware that these horns are not a small copy of the 2344. Maybe Phil should have made that clear in his advertisement. I bought them due to my Lust for horns. I will experiment with them. If I can not make them sound right due to lack of expertise, there will be 2 options. Send them to you, or use them as a very decorative item on top of my 4435's as an addition to the other horns. The origin of this thread however was pictures of horn systems.
Here they come :
Zilch, keep up the good work. I did always enjoy your expertise.

Klaus

Fred Sanford
09-04-2006, 08:35 PM
You're lucky you can't see the other side of the room!!!
Listening distance, 3 metres.

Nice low-impedance LP (recording series?) poster.

je

jack_bouska
09-05-2006, 01:17 AM
In response to the request (post 51) from Titanium Dome

Are you going to post your graphs? I'd sure love to see them. :yes:

Rather than clutter up the "Horn system pictures" thread, I have chosen to start a new thread under the DIY section, with more details of the design and images.

the thread is called:
DIY Axially symmetric oblate spheroid CD waveguides, in solid Oak

< http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=123390&postcount=1 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=123390&postcount=1) >

Work and Family keep me pretty busy, so I don't have too much time to spare for posting, but I will attempt to get all the images up today or tomorrow, and as always, I invite response/question, etc.

Jack Bouska

lucfm
09-05-2006, 11:11 AM
These use esoteric Ale compression drivers with a straight real midbass horn with compression driver.

http://www.magico.net/products.html?scr=1280x800

Anybody listened to these unusual things in a decent listening environment ?
See also :

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/magico/magico.html

Luc

Mr. Widget
09-05-2006, 11:41 AM
Yep... I know the designer. I believe he has sold three pairs of them. They are really amazing... but they are quite a commitment in terms of cost and real-estate... speaking of real-estate, they cost more than some people's houses.:D

Here is an Absolute Sound review of them... I have heard them with the DEQX and Pass Labs crossovers, but not the Marchands. I would agree with what was said about them with the DEQX crossovers.

http://www.magico.net/MAGICO_Ultimate.pdf


Here is a thread I started on them some time back before I heard the final version.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5475




Widget

Hoerninger
09-05-2006, 12:06 PM
... magico ultimate... 88 dB for woofer. Dimensions ... 94"x18"x40". Weight: approximately 800 lbs.
It is a design, so you like it or not.

But in a 5-way horn loaded loudspeaker system I would really enjoy the impact of a bass horn with great efficiency instead of a 88 db woofer. An appropriate bass horn doesn't have pronounced bass, it has pure power. Sometimes you think something is missing. But when you have left the room then you know what is was.
____________
Peter

@Widget
Thank you for the links.

Mr. Widget
09-05-2006, 12:09 PM
...with a straight real midbass horn with compression driver.I just noticed this... the large midbass horn is driven by an 11" or 12" TAD driver, not a compression driver.


Widget

Mr. Widget
09-05-2006, 12:10 PM
But in a 5-way horn loaded loudspeaker system I would really enjoy the impact of a bass horn with great efficiency instead of a 88 db woofer.Much of the "impact" we hear is higher up in frequency... I didn't find it lacking here... and besides the damn things are huge already... a bass horn would be insanely huge.


Widget

scott fitlin
09-05-2006, 05:48 PM
I have an article on that Magico system in an audio mag from last January.

They pay particular attention to making the horn, precision manufacturing from aircraft grade alauminum, and lots of crossbracing, its supposed to be resonance free.

9w tube amps on the HF and upper midrange, 22w tube amps on the midbass section, and high power SS for the direct radiating LF, and they offer DEQX or Marchand crossovers for active xovers, and they say their Marchands are heavily customized.

I would like to hear this system.

Tom Brennan
09-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Four months to build a pair of those Magico midbass horns? That's either bullshit or somebody doesn't know what they're doing.

When I was a Boilermaker I could'a knocked out a pair of those in a couple of days at the longest. Including the layout work. Big deal.

Zilch
09-05-2006, 11:31 PM
Driver's on the bottom there, right Tom?

[Looks like a 2220.... :D ]

Mr. Widget
09-05-2006, 11:40 PM
Four months to build a pair of those Magico midbass horns? That's either bullshit or somebody doesn't know what they're doing....or they're getting paid by the hour.;)


Widget

Steve Schell
09-06-2006, 01:44 AM
Well, I have to agree with Hoerninger in that the use of a direct radiator woofer seems an odd choice in an otherwise cost no object horn system. I have not heard the Ultimate, but everything in my past experience leads me to suspect that that woofer will not do the job that a good horn subwoofer would do. A horn sub is large, but not unreasonably so in the context of a system like that. The ones I have built have a footprint of about 2' by 8'.

I did enjoy speaking with Alon Wolf in Las Vegas this past January, and I really admire his pursuit of perfection. His Mini speakers (two ways) sounded as good as any speaker of that type that I've heard. Their build quality was spectacular as well.

jack_bouska
09-07-2006, 01:07 AM
Hi Jack,

You have done some really fine work! I am impressed both by your logical approach to the design and the excellent execution of the many fine details; DIY at its best; you are a true craftsman.

You might consider posting some pictures of your project over on the Audio Asylum High Efficiency Speakers Forum. There have been several threads on the oblate spheroid waveguide there in the past, and Dr. Geddes has participated in these. You might want to do a search there for Dr. Geddes' past posts, as he has gone into considerable detail in explaining these waveguides.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/HUG/bbs.html

Steve - thanks for reminding me to review the Audio Asylum High Efficiency Speakers Forum - I started visiting that forum in late 2004, about the time Duke enticed Earl Geddes to start contributing. - I read most of Earls posts from late 04 into 05, but I have been so busy with work, family, and getting my own system completed, that I have not remained active in the forum (I was always only a lurker anyway).
A quick search/review of the recent archives reveals that Earl has remained active, and that I do have a lot of catching up to do - obviously many gem's of knowledge awaiting there for me to retrieve, I just need the spare time…..
I would consider posting a selection of images and measurements on the Audio Asylum forum, however the interfaces I have seen so far all appear to be ASCII only (unlike Lansing heritage forums, with imbedded image capability). Is it possible to post images inline with the text? The only other place I have seen for images would be in the user gallery.
Regardless, thanks for the tip, and as an aside, I'll mention (again) that I have started a new thread on the oblate spheroid waveguides, with loads more graphs and measurements, along with some descriptive analysis of the curves.
DIY Axially symmetric oblate spheroid CD waveguides, in solid Oak
full thread at:
< http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=123390#post123390 >
Jack Bouska

Woofer
09-11-2006, 10:17 PM
Nice low-impedance LP (recording series?) poster.

je

Yes, it is a good poster but when I found it, the snails had got to it, and someone had it all laminated, holes'n all. Still looks good though.
I'm embarrassed to say, that if you look slightly left past the L40 box and just barely visible alongside the partly covered Turbosound banner is the neck of a real Cherry 59 Les Paul Jr. barely sticking up through the pile of .... well for want of a better word, stuff.
Obviously, I don't play it much anymore!
Oops! Getting off topic again. Sorry all.

JoshK
09-28-2006, 12:26 PM
First post on this forum.....just had to comment on Jack B's system. :rockon2: A member of another forum I participate on pointed these out. Excellent work!

I am venturing down a somewhat similar path, at least in some respects. I recently picked up a pair of JBL 2123H's, a quad of Lambda TD15x's and a pair of DDS ENG 1-90 waveguides (with the intention of using BMS 4552NDs probably). I have visited Dr. Geddes's home in Michigan when I was out there and was really impressed with both his research and his work in action.

I don't know the details of how it will shape up, I have some other unfinished projects to finish like my 6 channels of amplification (I am using a DEQX).

I'd love to see some more details about how you spun your waveguides. I don't currently have a lathe but was considering adding one to my woodshop. How did you manage to get the profile just right?

jack_bouska
08-31-2007, 07:01 AM
First post on this forum.....I'd love to see some more details about how you spun your waveguides. I don't currently have a lathe but was considering adding one to my woodshop. How did you manage to get the profile just right?

Technique for turning waveguides or circular axially symmetric horns on a lathe is the same for any type of template driven wood turning.
1) mount stock and shape to circular
2) rough out outside and inside shape
3) a) stop the lathe,
b) move tool rest,
c) insert template and
d) judge where to remove stock
e) you can mark areas with pencil, by holding against stock and turning by hand
4) repeat steps in 3 until very close to final shape, then carfully sand to exact template match.

see some of John W's posts for more information, he is a much more skilled turner than I will ever be.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12671

Jack (living/working in Muscat Oman now)

JBL 4645
09-01-2007, 06:37 PM
Quote

http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/shearer-horn.web.jpg

"In the late 1920s, cinema audio playback was dismal. Western Electric had a single driver on a large re-entrant horn. It didn’t sound very good, even after the company added a separate HF unit and extra 18-inch woofers. RCA’s competing system was no better.

Dissatisfied with these bulky, 5kHz bandwidth systems, MGM’s sound department head, Douglas Shearer, set out to create something better. Shearer asked John Hilliard to head the team, with Robert Stephens and Harry Kimball. Consultant John Blackburn suggested using James B. Lansing’s new high-performance components. Essentially, Shearer created a dream team with some of the best minds in audio. Other ideas came from William Snow, who worked with Harvey Fletcher at Bell Labs, and RCA’s John Volkmann and Harry Olson.

Known as the Shearer Horn, the two-way system had a large multicell horn coupled to Lansing’s new 284 compression drivers. One or more “W” bin folded horns loaded with two 15-inch Lansing woofers handled LF. On its debut, the Shearer Horn was a near-instant success, offering high-SPL/high-fidelity performance from a package that could be easily shipped and installed. Thousands of Shearer-style systems (from a variety of suppliers) were in theaters everywhere, and the system received a Technical Academy Award in 1936.

The Shearer Horn began the age of modern sound systems. Equally significant was its role in launching an entire industry of pro audio with an awareness for fidelity. The system’s lifespan was cut short by Altec A-4 Voice of the Theatre models in the mid-1940s (designed by Hilliard and Lansing), but innovations such as the “W” bin design stayed in use for another half-century."

Steve Schell
09-04-2007, 05:12 PM
My Cogent Loudspeakers partner Rich Drysdale and myself helped to install and voice a custom horn system recently. The horns were built by metal worker extraordinaire Josh Stippich of Electronluv. Cogent supplied the midrange and bass compression drivers. Chris Brady of Teres Audio built the passive crossovers and was on hand to help finish things up. The plasma tweeters were built by Acapella in Germany. An Edgarhorn Seismic Subwoofer provided the lows below 60Hz.

That's yours truly in the third picture, and I'm 6'2". The tops of the bass drivers are almost 10' above the floor. A large architecture horn system like this can provide a stunningly natural, effortless reproduction of recorded events. Such a system doesn't have to be quite so huge and over-the-top design wise to be effective... of course it doesn't hurt either!

grumpy
09-04-2007, 09:44 PM
gotta feel good to get those babies singing! :) Nice work, Steve. -grumpy

Woofer
09-04-2007, 10:01 PM
I personally feel these should come under the heading of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction"
I know I'm devastated now in knowing that I could never reach such a state of Nirvana by owning anything as awesome as this.
Oh well.....
:blink:

Hoerninger
09-05-2007, 06:39 AM
I personally feel these should come under the heading of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction"
:blink:
With this association you should have a look here:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=157266&postcount=6
:D
I would very much like to listen to the horn system Steve has described. There is no reason to drive the amps to their limits. ;)
___________
Peter

Woofer
09-05-2007, 07:12 AM
With this association you should have a look here:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=157266&postcount=6
:D
I would very much like to listen to the horn system Steve has described. There is no reason to drive the amps to their limits. ;)
___________
Peter

Speechless....... :blink:

sourceoneaudio
09-05-2007, 07:55 AM
That falls in the category of, HOLY BAT CRAP BATMAN! :blink:


Very nice indeed...............!

glen
09-05-2007, 10:52 AM
The tops of the bass drivers are almost 10' above the floor.
Big, Beautiful Beasts
What's powering them?

cvengr
09-05-2007, 11:44 AM
The tops of the bass drivers are almost 10' above the floor. I'm in the middle of building some 4350 variants. I've tuned the cabinets lower making them about 23 inches deep instead of 18 in.

I don't have 2311 horns, but have a pair of 2390s with hartsfield lenses. Since the geometry of the 4350 baffle doesn't allow that lense, I've taken the baffles, and am considering rotating them 90 degrees, with 2235s closer together on the bottom, 2202 sealed in a box above them, close to them, and the 2240 with 2390 above, all using the same dimensions on the 4350 baffle.

Now here's my question.

Obviously in your arrangement, the voice coils of bass driver, and compression drivers are not on the same plane to produce a wavefront which is in phase upon emission from the speaker system.

With the 2390s, (Hartsfield horn and lense) my voice coils on the 2440 2" compression drivers are roughly a foot further from the baffle than the 2235/2202 voice coils.

Am I close enough to matching them in one plane, ala the 4430s, to warrant the extra effort in structurally supporting the horn in front of the baffle to improve sound stage and phasing?... or is that an obscure enough point which really isn't perceived?

I also have a pair of 2350s with adapters, for the 2440s, but those would extend out another foot to 15". Any tips are appreciated.

On a separate note, how have you found the best way to wire them up?
Short conductors to power amps then XLR back to source.

pablol
09-05-2007, 06:47 PM
aahh well, somebodies horn will always be bigger I guess....:)

Steve Schell
09-06-2007, 01:04 PM
Cvenger, I did not design these horns though I provided some input. My partner and I supplied our Cogent mid/ high frequency and bass compression drivers for use in this system.

In my opinion it is always desirable to line up the true acoustic centers of the drivers when possible. With a large architecture horn system we have a dilemma: most users of such systems don't want no stinkin' digital processor used in their perfectionist system, and this sort of processing is the only way to resolve the widely varying arrival times of the horns. It is felt by most that the loss of resolution would be worse than the benefit gained by the time alignment. I have used the DEQX system and found no noticeable degradation of sound. The benefit of the corrected arrival times is apparent, especially with our Cogent horn subwoofer with its almost 20' path length.

It is fair to say that with a large horn system like this excellent results can be obtained either with or without arrival time correction. The sound from each part of the system is effortless and very low in distortion and the elements tend to blend togther very well despite the misalignment. One way to say it is that I would prefer a pile of uncompromised though nonaligned horns to another solution that allowed alignment but lacked the effortless sound quality.

Now as to your situation... I would recommend thinking "outside the box" in regard to placement of your midrange drivers and horns and your tweeters. If you place them atop the low frequency cabinets rather than inside then you are free to position them optimally fore and aft. It requires impulse testing to locate the true acoustic centers of the drivers, as they are rarely on exactly the plane of the voice coil. I have found that the most critical relationship in terms of imaging is the alignment of tweeter and midrange. A system with simple 6dB/octave passive crossovers and all drivers in correct polarity and aligned will image like crazy. Protecting the drivers better with 12dB/octave crossovers requires reversing phase of the midrange to sum properly, and this arrangement will never image as well IME.

In general I use lengths of fine magnet wire (24 or 26 gauge) to connect a system together. Usually the passive crossover is close to the speakers, with short lengths to each driver. A run of whatever length necessary (maybe 15') goes back to the power amplifier. Keep in mind I am using compression drivers that have a ton of magnetic damping, and no additional damping is required from the amplifier. A couple of ohms resistance in the speaker line does no harm and may actually help in achieving critical damping.

ChopsMX5
09-06-2007, 01:10 PM
aahh well, somebodies horn will always be bigger I guess....:)

You're wife is going to have you in the doghouse when she find out you're using the nice dinner glasses, not to mention the nice dinner table! LOL

BTW, nice horn. :D

ChopsMX5
09-06-2007, 01:37 PM
I guess that if I'm going to post in this thread, I should at least throw up a horn pic or two. :D

Mains: Klipsch Cornwalls (only woofers being used) and Altec 511B/902-8B
Center: Pyle PPA15 in sealed 4.23cf enclosure and Altec 511B/902-8T

I know, this system isn't as "horny" as others here, but it's a start. The best part is that there are NO Klipsch horns being used! :p

With grills in place - normal...
http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p130956859-4.jpg

Without grills - just for fun...
http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p22524967-4.jpg

Hoerninger
09-06-2007, 01:46 PM
... will always be bigger I guess....:)
But finer?
There might be an interest how you made the bends. ;)
___________
Peter

pablol
09-06-2007, 02:15 PM
As long I fix what I break the wifes happy :), The bends were made as per the Edgar horn article found here volvotreter.de/dl-section.htm. In my case I uses wadded up rope calk stuck to the table to space and align the straight sides with a wood block on the top part to keep the sides from falling together. Then 3/4" I cut slats and guled them stacked along the curved edges. Rough shaped with a wood rasp, filled all the voids with wood filler and sanded smooth. Finished with a prime and paint. I'll take build pictures when I build the other one. I'm getting drivers today and I didn't want to build 2 before I found out if they were going to be functional. The peliminary test was my wife yelling at me through it :blink: it worked well over the vocal range :D. It also worked well as a hearing aid....

cvengr
09-06-2007, 10:23 PM
Thanks for the input. I might just go back to the 4350 baffle design and place the midrange and tweeter externally.

I've also toyed with mounting a couple of amps in each box and just running the output from the active crossovers to them by XLR connections.

I'm still open for any other ideas on that note.
Thanks again.

pablol
09-07-2007, 08:33 AM
I guess that if I'm going to post in this thread, I should at least throw up a horn pic or two. :D

Mains: Klipsch Cornwalls (only woofers being used) and Altec 511B/902-8B
Center: Pyle PPA15 in sealed 4.23cf enclosure and Altec 511B/902-8T

I know, this system isn't as "horny" as others here, but it's a start. The best part is that there are NO Klipsch horns being used! :p


Makes me wish I had a basement for a projector (and more speakers) :)

After playing full range pink noise through my horn with a B&C 8pe21 I got pretty good results.

315hz - 85.1db
400hz - 85.5db
500hz - 87.2db
630hz - 86.1db
800hz - 81.9db
1000hz - 83.8db
1250hz - 80.0db

mean 84.22
biggest peak +2.98db
Biggest dip -4.44db

Not bad, I'm going to crossover at 300hz and 1000hz to a BMS 4552nd or BMS 4550 and a jbl 2226h. Next is the other horn and the horn for the tweeter. I'll try and take more construction pictures.
__________________

pablol
09-07-2007, 07:11 PM
As of now the speaker isn't enclosed, what effect might closing it up have? I'm thinking about boxing it up, just enough to seal the driver.

ChopsMX5
09-07-2007, 09:36 PM
As of now the speaker isn't enclosed, what effect might closing it up have? I'm thinking about boxing it up, just enough to seal the driver.

I didn't understand this question until I did a search on the B&C 8PE21 and found out that it's a cone driver. Now your question makes sense. LOL :p

I suppose that since you're crossing it over at 300Hz, you could probably get away with building a small 0.5cf or smaller sealed enclosure, enough to support 300Hz at least (maybe 200Hz to be on the safe side), and have a good amount of accoustic padding of some sorts in it.

Unfortunately, I don't know what would happen exactly. I'm guessing it could possibly clean the sound up some and provide more detail, giving the driver more control over itself due to the small enclosure. It would also seal the B&C driver from the backwave of the woofer(s), so the woofers wouldn't effect the midrange at all.

Hoerninger
09-08-2007, 03:58 AM
... what effect might closing it up have?

1.
As long the back is open you have a back-loaded horn (used in the opposite direction) which has always sound pressure irregularities due to interferencies.
Don't feel amazed by a "spacy" sound, Bose can do it better :D. Closing the back will improve sound stage.

2..
A closed back chamber has an influence on the lower frequency limit as long the volume is "small". The influence can't be described within a view words, it is more complicated than with a simple closed box design. Use HORNRESPONSE for simulating and estimating.
Using a bigger volume which contributes only little to systems compliance works with no harm. Look at Volvotreters Mid Bass Horn or here using a 6 inch 18Sound 6ND410 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=121158&postcount=3). :)

3.
With a closed back you will have a tendency to sound coloration. Using a big volume it should entirely be filled with damping so the internal sound waves will be weakened. This works best in a tube but a vertical box with two appropriate sound reflectors behind the cone speaker will do as well.
____________
Peter

Huynh Chau
09-09-2007, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the input. I might just go back to the 4350 baffle design and place the midrange and tweeter externally.

I've also toyed with mounting a couple of amps in each box and just running the output from the active crossovers to them by XLR connections.

I'm still open for any other ideas on that note.
Thanks again.
My small horn speakers. In VietNam too...

Woofer
09-09-2007, 09:57 AM
.... obviously a beginner.
It's OK, we all had to start somewhere. :blink:

toddalin
09-09-2007, 10:37 AM
My small horn speakers. In VietNam too...


OK, I'll bite..., why are the slot tweeters turned on their sides? :blink:

Woofer
09-09-2007, 10:44 AM
OK, I'll bite..., why are the slot tweeters turned on their sides? :blink:

I do it myself too!
Nothing unusual in that, if a wide dispersion is what you want.
One could ask the same question, "why do you mount horns horizontally and not vertically?"

Cheers. :)

ps: ..... but please, Huynh Chau, do tell us more about your system.
what sort of drivers, where did you get the multi-cells, etc etc.

Hoerninger
09-09-2007, 11:30 AM
More Info:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13637
___________
Peter

Woofer
09-09-2007, 11:50 AM
More Info:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13637
___________
Peter

Thank You Peter.....
Very impressive bit of insight. :)

cvengr
09-09-2007, 03:16 PM
My small horn speakers. In VietNam too...

Very nice work, Huynh.

Zilch
09-09-2007, 04:55 PM
I do it myself too!
Nothing unusual in that, if a wide dispersion is what you want.
One could ask the same question, "why do you mount horns horizontally and not vertically?"Nope. Very NARROW horizontal dispersion in that orientation, with lots of reflections coming off the floor and ceiling. It's the diffraction slot edges that produce the wide dispersion in that design:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2405.pdf

Horns have directivity, also. That's kinda what they're about, mostly, anymore.... :blink:

Woofer
09-09-2007, 05:36 PM
Nope. Very NARROW horizontal dispersion in that orientation, with lots of reflections coming off the floor and ceiling. It's the diffraction slot edges that produce the wide dispersion in that design:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2405.pdf

Horns have directivity, also. That's kinda what they're about.... :blink:

Hmmmmm...... (deep thought)
Not meaning any disrespect, but yes you're right to a point Zilch, but I've found in past experience that what's on paper, may not necessarily always hold true.
It can sometimes be a bit of a 'try and see' experiment.
What works for some, doesn't always work for everyone, especially depending on your listening environment.
I agree with what you say but, I've experimented with my slots and at the moment, horizontal seems to work best.

Cheers,
Woofer. ;)

Zilch
09-09-2007, 06:19 PM
I've found in past experience that what's on paper, may not necessarily always hold true.

It can sometimes be a bit of a 'try and see' experiment.We have tried, and we have seen:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6368

Generally, JBL specs are reliable, especially when it comes to the fundamental design and performance characteristics of drivers and systems. We all use that information to our own purposes and pleasures, but in my experience, it's folly to ignore the specs.

If my perception was that 077/2405 had wider horizontal dispersion with the slot oriented horizontally, i.e., opposite of the way JBL employed it in every system incorporating it, I'd sure be wanting to figure out what was going on with the specific application of the device in my design.... :yes:

Woofer
09-09-2007, 06:25 PM
We have tried, and we have seen:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6368

Generally, JBL specs are reliable, especially when it comes to the fundamental design and performance of drivers and systems. We all use that information to our own purposes and pleasures, but in my experience, it's folly to ignore the specs.

If my perception was that 077/2405 had wider horizontal dispersion with the slot oriented horizontally, I'd sure be wanting to figure out what was going on with the specific application of the device in my design.... :yes:

I should elaborate. My slots are about 7 feet up, and I sit fairly close to my speakers. If I had them the right way, they'd focus straight over my head.
Maybe it might help if I should cut back on the stuff that I'm smokin' too. :blink:

Huynh Chau
09-10-2007, 02:41 AM
Very nice work, Huynh.

My system :
1. Tact S2150XDM (use EQ & Room correction) ----------------- Low Bass JBL 2235 (2) cabinet 4350 (DIY)
2. Tact S2150 ----------------- Mid Bass JBL 2226 cabinet 4350 (DIY)
3.Tact M2150 ------- Mid-high JBL 2441 (horn A290A)& Altec 291-16A (horn multicell) (DIY)
4.Tweeter 077
It s' nice sound !!!

00Robin
09-10-2007, 05:51 AM
wow,whatcha guys listening to through those monsters?

Maron Horonzakz
09-10-2007, 07:43 AM
The 2405 is a diffraction slot tweeter and will give you 120 degree dispersion when the slot is verticle,,

Woofer
09-10-2007, 07:49 AM
The 2405 is a diffraction slot tweeter and will give you 120 degree dispersion when the slot is verticle,,

140 degrees Horizontal x 40 degrees Vertical, when the slot is vertical @ 10KHz.
90 degrees Horizontal x 35 degrees Vertical @ 16KHz, and
65 degrees Horizontal x 30 degrees Vertical @ 20KHz.

Maron Horonzakz
09-10-2007, 07:54 AM
In an anachoic chamber.;)

Woofer
09-10-2007, 07:56 AM
In an anachoic chamber.;)

Yes, a very valid point. :)

Joe Alesi
09-12-2007, 08:49 AM
My system :
1. Tact S2150XDM (use EQ & Room correction) ----------------- Low Bass JBL 2235 (2) cabinet 4350 (DIY)
2. Tact S2150 ----------------- Mid Bass JBL 2226 cabinet 4350 (DIY)
3.Tact M2150 ------- Mid-high JBL 2441 (horn A290A)& Altec 291-16A (horn multicell) (DIY)
4.Tweeter 077
It s' nice sound !!!

Hello Huynh,

Congratulations- wonderful workmanship. Can you tell us about the crossover points you are using in the system?

Best
JA

Akira
09-14-2007, 03:00 PM
per side: All drivers are compression loaded
2x 15" JBL 2225 bass
2x 12" ATC bass
4x 12"ATC mid horns
1x 2441/ 2393 Lens plate (2404 HF added later)
2x 2470 phonelic drivers
4x 2405 slot radiators

Huynh Chau
09-15-2007, 02:29 AM
Hello Huynh,

Congratulations- wonderful workmanship. Can you tell us about the crossover points you are using in the system?

Best
JA
My system Xover :
Bass Xover <80Hz ------ JBL 2235 (2)
Midlow Xover >80Hz -500> ------ JBL 2226
Midhigh Xover >500Hz ----- JBL 2441 & Altec 291-16A
Tweeter used HF N7000 (DIY) Xover >2kHz ----- JBL 077

audiovoice
09-15-2007, 10:35 PM
more pictures at my blog:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/12312992@N07/page1/

Angelo

allen mueller
09-16-2007, 06:01 AM
My setup now. Altece A7's loaded with GPA 416's with mahogony smith style horns loaded with bms coax drivers, and hanging from the cieling is a tweeter array loaded with 2402's.

hpyle
09-19-2007, 06:35 AM
...and hanging from the cieling is a tweeter array loaded with 2402's.

Really? Hidden in the lanterns?

Cool :-)

grumpy
09-19-2007, 07:50 AM
look higher... left of column top... bright white thingy.

(if it's any consolation, I first thought of the lamps too) :p

4313B
09-19-2007, 08:11 AM
Bloody hell! I was fixing to order a pair of the 2402 loaded lanterns!

grumpy
09-19-2007, 09:32 AM
sorry to pop your balloon...er lamp. ;)

cvengr
09-19-2007, 10:08 AM
I've been toying with various 4350 baffle configurations, trying to conserve floor space real estate, while maintaining the alignment of the voice coils and and aesthetic baffle. The midrange horn length seems to be a controlling parameter on enclosure geometry and shape. This would also allow the 2" mid range motor to be supported on top of a sealed mid-low transducer box and hidden behind a lense.

Has anybody here experimented with installing the port tube for LF transducers around the exterior of the midrange horn, concentrically?

In this fashion, the low freq might emanate closer to the mid range wave front reinforced by the LF transducers below.

At least the idea seems valid at first. I don't recall seeing any such arrangements, although many a coax speaker cone have been designed.

Phil Mundi
08-03-2008, 06:15 AM
The Nubian" HORNS Phil Mundi production


http://membres.lycos.fr/brokaz/nub/15.jpg

BMWCCA
08-03-2008, 06:34 AM
The Nubian" HORNS Phil Mundi production
Nice work, but you're throwing it around here like spam. Is there some method to your madness?

bigblock1970
08-11-2008, 08:37 AM
Just finished this up this weekend.

2 2242 in 12.2 cu-ft ported cabinet (crossed at 70 hz)
2 Community Leviathan Mid Bass Horns with 2 JBL 2220's each (crossed at 800 hz)
2 JBL 2397 horns with JBL 2482 motors (crossed at 4khz)
2 JBL 2405 with CNC brackets.

Have not tweeked them much yet but they sound very promissing.

Any thoughts or feedback on the setup would be greatly appreciated. I am always looking for ideas to make things better.

thanks

Mr. Widget
08-11-2008, 11:35 AM
Any thoughts or feedback on the setup would be greatly appreciated. I am always looking for ideas to make things better.
Question:

Do you have a wife? Hell, roommates? ...pets even?

That thing looks serious! :applaud:

Wow, I really don't know what to say.


Widget

felixx
08-11-2008, 12:29 PM
That thing eat meat...a lot of meat...human meat:applaud:.
Interesting project.

hjames
08-11-2008, 02:35 PM
Looks like a klystron in there - did you dismount your microwave oven for that??
Will it roast a turkey while you listen to music?

Looks dangerous! :applaud:


Just finished this up this weekend.

Have not tweeked them much yet but they sound very promissing.

Any thoughts or feedback on the setup would be greatly appreciated. I am always looking for ideas to make things better.

thanks

grumpy
08-11-2008, 03:27 PM
A coaxial-like arrangement... :) I see that the 2482's fall off pretty quickly above 5KHz,
but asking the 2405 to go down to 4KHz might not be optimal. I imagine the live-ish
"you are there" type dynamics are pretty exciting. If you get a chance to try 2440's or
2441's in place of the 2482... or find a tweeter that likes to play down to meet the 2482
response, it would probably be worth a try, but if you're happy, then "thar ya go."

Nice finish on the 2405 bracket.

bigblock1970
08-12-2008, 10:07 AM
I agree. I really love the 2405 and am currently looking for a decent deal on some 2440 41 45 46's I think this will really finish them off well. I know it is not optimum, it was what I had. I do love the 2482's though. We plan on trying some 2402's with the 82's to see if that is a better match.

They are VERY DYNAMIC!!

Thanks to all for the input. Any other ideas are appreciated.

PS I do have a wife and SHE ROCKS!! She actually drove 1400 miles with me to pick up the Levis and 4560's and 4550's I could not ask for better!!

pos
08-12-2008, 10:40 AM
maybe a 2403 (076) could also go low enough?
You could also use the new 2407 or 2408 ring radiators with some small smith horn?

Woofer
08-12-2008, 10:41 AM
I agree. I really love the 2405 and am currently looking for a decent deal on some 2440 41 45 46's I think this will really finish them off well. I know it is not optimum, it was what I had. I do love the 2482's though. We plan on trying some 2402's with the 82's to see if that is a better match.

They are VERY DYNAMIC!!

Thanks to all for the input. Any other ideas are appreciated.

PS I do have a wife and SHE ROCKS!! She actually drove 1400 miles with me to pick up the Levis and 4560's and 4550's I could not ask for better!!

You could try putting some 2420's between the 2482's and the 2405's.
Sometimes a pair of 2420's can be got for less than a pair of 2402's, and the extra power handling is a bonus. :D
Plus the fact that they'd allow you much more flexibility with crossover points. ;)

Mr. Widget
08-12-2008, 11:27 PM
You could try putting some 2420's between the 2482'sI am not sure what I would try, but I would not buy a pair of 2402s or 075s and try to cross them over low enough for the 2482s. Since you said you liked the 2405s, I doubt you will find the 2402s satisfying.


Widget

Woofer
08-13-2008, 12:30 AM
I am not sure what I would try, but I would not buy a pair of 2402s or 075s and try to cross them over low enough for the 2482s. Since you said you liked the 2405s, I doubt you will find the 2402s satisfying.


Widget

.... but, but, that's why I said 2420's, not 2402! :o:

Mr. Widget
08-13-2008, 01:14 AM
.... but, but, that's why I said 2420's, not 2402! :o:I know.

I was comenting on your post #138 and Block's post #136. ;)


Widget

Woofer
08-13-2008, 01:31 AM
I know.

I was comenting on your post #138 and Block's post #136. ;)


Widget

Sorry Widget, I thought you had misread that I had written 2420 for 2402. :o:

I personally love the 2482's, so tight and rich for vocals, and I think that using either a 2420 or 2410, or even a 2470 upgraded with a '20/21 diaphragm, would be much more useable between the '82 and '05, as they would cover a pretty good spectrum (at least 800Hz to ? depending on which .pdf you read), then you could bring in the slot wherever it sounds best. Pro'ly 'round 10KHz (plus or minus 2KHz-ish) which would run them out to 20KHz-ish. (again, depending on which .pdf you read)
The fact that you can run the '82 down to 300Hz (given the correct horn) makes them an awesome force to contend with.
Using a 2440 is a bit of overkill and a tad dearer than a 2420. ;)

bigblock1970
08-13-2008, 05:01 AM
Thanks for the input. I have a set of 175's that I took out of the previous setup I had. I will try putting those in and give it a listen. I am running 4 way active now with a BSS fds-318. I have a pair of 3105 crossovers that I can put between the 175 and the 2405. I guess I should keep my eye out for a "Baby Smith" horn for the 175. Any thoughts on another horn choice.

Thanks

Russ

Woofer
08-13-2008, 06:46 AM
Thanks for the input. I have a set of 175's that I took out of the previous setup I had. I will try putting those in and give it a listen. I am running 4 way active now with a BSS fds-318. I have a pair of 3105 crossovers that I can put between the 175 and the 2405. I guess I should keep my eye out for a "Baby Smith" horn for the 175. Any thoughts on another horn choice.

Thanks

Russ

Russ,
The 175 would be good.
If you're budget minded, and while you're still experimenting, try and find a pair of 2370's cheap, and use them while you're waiting for a pair of "Baby Smith's" to come along.
I was fortunate enough to get a pair for free from one of our fellow members here, (for which I am still truly grateful), so that will give you an idea of their current value. ;)
What horn did you have on the 175, and is it 8 or 16 ohms?
The 3105 (7KHz) is the x-over to use, but it is 8 Ohm for the highs, and 16 ohms for the Lows, so be careful with your impedance matching. :(

Cheers,
Woofer. :)

bigblock1970
08-13-2008, 08:48 AM
i had the 175's on 2344. I can use these they are just so big, I hated to block more of the 2220. My 2405's are 16 and 175 8 ohm. My friend has some DDS CFD ENG 1-90 PRO - 1" 90°x 90° WAVEGUIDE HORNs. that we were talking about trying. What are thoughts on 2407's on these DDS horns?? In hopes to keep it 4 way?

Woofer
08-13-2008, 09:24 AM
i had the 175's on 2344. I can use these they are just so big, I hated to block more of the 2220. My 2405's are 16 and 175 8 ohm. My friend has some DDS CFD ENG 1-90 PRO - 1" 90°x 90° WAVEGUIDE HORNs. that we were talking about trying. What are thoughts on 2407's on these DDS horns?? In hopes to keep it 4 way?



The 175's and the 2344 would be fine. Jeez, who wouldn't want a pair of those? ....regardless of their size. Like the ol' saying goes, "Big is Best".
The 3105 is the odd one out as even though it has a Hi output at 8 Ohms, it will work with the 16 Ohm 2405, (I know it's confusing, but it's been discussed at length elsewhere on this Forum), but due to it's 16 Ohm Lo output would not suit the 8 Ohm 175's.
As far as the DDS CFD ENG 1-90 PRO's are concerned, try putting together what you have first, try it out, and if you like it, then make your decision.
No point spending when you don't have to.
You have a couple of different combo's you could try first.

4-way: 2242/2220/175-2344/2405
5-way: 2242/2220/2482-2344/175-adaptor-2397/2405 (via a separate amp running full range straight into the 3105 feeding the 2405 only)
Although, I can't remember if the 2344 is 1" or 2". If the former, then there goes that idea.
:blink:

pos
08-13-2008, 09:30 AM
What are thoughts on 2407's on these DDS horns?? In hopes to keep it 4 way?You will find many good comments about this horn used with the BMS version of the 2407H (the original version). You will have to specifically order a screw on version of this horn.

I am using my 2407 on the H45E horn from Dayton:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=270-314

It should go down to 4khz without problem, and they also make a bigger version (and also round ones). These are really cheap. They are resonably well made (with plastic mounting thread, but the 2407 is light).

John W. also designed some horn for his 2407, to replace a 2403:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17617#2

He also designed a two way system with this driver, with a small smith horn (should be a version of the 1200Hz smith horn that are described somewhere on these forums) :
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21202

bigblock1970
08-13-2008, 09:34 AM
I oopsed on the ohms. the 175's are 16 and the 2405's are 8

Sorry.

I will check out the other threads on the 2407

Thanks again.

1audiohack
09-16-2008, 08:28 PM
I just love this world of audio!

I was in MI last weekend and got to hear the Levi 1"s at Russ' place and they rock! And, they are very capable of being gentle.

I had a blast tinkering and tweaking with them. We slipped in a pair of 2445's and with a little dialing everything we ran through them came through pretty smooth and plenty dynamic!

Loud and clear!

Thanks for the opportunity!

Akira
09-21-2008, 07:42 PM
Sorry Widget, I thought you had misread that I had written 2420 for 2402. :o:

I personally love the 2482's, so tight and rich for vocals, and I think that using either a 2420 or 2410, or even a 2470 upgraded with a '20/21 diaphragm, would be much more useable between the '82 and '05, as they would cover a pretty good spectrum (at least 800Hz to ? depending on which .pdf you read), then you could bring in the slot wherever it sounds best. Pro'ly 'round 10KHz ;)

If you like the sound of a phenolic with an extended high end, the original 2470 with 2405 is a perfect match. JBL actually made such a product, the model 4663. A sound reinforcement product, excellent vocal and Marshall guitar reproduction with decent throw...typical product for the time of it's incarnation--early 1980's

Ian Mackenzie
11-04-2008, 05:12 AM
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/13/137684.html

pos
11-04-2008, 06:34 AM
And that giant horn also serves as a diffusor, neat!!

Another interesting implementation, with a bass horn under a stage:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1649627#post1649627

Eaulive
09-03-2010, 11:40 AM
Try http://www.precisiondevices.co.uk/home.asp these are made in UK,and are used in Turbosound concert PA rigs and alike.they list both 21" and 24" drivers.

I have the tendancy of not taking seriously anybody who talks about Watts RMS :blink::dont-know:

timc
09-03-2010, 11:47 AM
What is wrong with watts RMS?

Eaulive
09-03-2010, 11:50 AM
What is wrong with watts RMS?

Really nothing, since it's something that doesn't exist :D

Hoerninger
09-03-2010, 12:33 PM
... not taking seriously anybody who talks about Watts RMS
:thmbsup:
At least they have PDFs with TSP.
They are cooking with water.
___________
Peter

timc
09-03-2010, 12:35 PM
Really nothing, since it's something that doesn't exist :D

Doesn't exist? You have lost me.

I thought it was a term used to describe the equivalent DC power for an AC signal.

Eaulive
09-03-2010, 03:29 PM
Doesn't exist? You have lost me.

I thought it was a term used to describe the equivalent DC power for an AC signal.

No, that's average power, or W avg.
The root mean square value of power is completely meaningless, every serious manufacturer knows this and will never rate an amplifier or speaker using WRMS.

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_power
More technical:
http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf

Of course, this term is rooted so deep in the common vernacular that it's hard to get of it :)

timc
09-03-2010, 03:43 PM
No, that's average power, or W avg.
The root mean square value of power is completely meaningless, every serious manufacturer knows this and will never rate an amplifier or speaker using WRMS.

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_power
More technical:
http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf

Of course, this term is rooted so deep in the common vernacular that it's hard to get of it :)

I see your point. But I still do think it makes sence as a "common" word. Not sure if that is the right term. If you say average power, it is not immidiate apparant that you are talking about the power of the RMS voltage.

If you just say average power, it could mean different things. It could mean the equivalent DC power, or the avereage over a certain time.

But academically you are quite correct, and I was "in error". It will not happen again. I promiss :o:

Allanvh5150
09-03-2010, 04:00 PM
ummmmm......average value is the average of the sine wave. RMS is the equivalent to DC power. 100watts RMS is the same as 100 watts at DC! It is the value that is used to calculate current and such and allows us to used ohms law to work things out. Although it doesnt exist per se, it is impotant.

Eaulive
09-03-2010, 04:04 PM
I see your point. But I still do think it makes sence as a "common" word. Not sure if that is the right term. If you say average power, it is not immidiate apparant that you are talking about the power of the RMS voltage.

If you just say average power, it could mean different things. It could mean the equivalent DC power, or the avereage over a certain time.

But academically you are quite correct, and I was "in error". It will not happen again. I promiss :o:

No error from your part and I agree with you on one point, it's a common word and people agree on its meaning even if it's not the right word to use for that meaning.

And I'm not bashing the individuals, especially the less knowledgeable for the use of the term, but rather the manufacturers and people in this field of activity. They should know better.

However I still think we should try to make the effort of using the more accurate "average power" for the sake of education and to stop perpetuating a misnomer, after all it's one of the goals of this forum, share the knowledge ;)

Eaulive
09-03-2010, 04:21 PM
ummmmm......average value is the average of the sine wave. RMS is the equivalent to DC power. 100watts RMS is the same as 100 watts at DC! It is the value that is used to calculate current and such and allows us to used ohms law to work things out. Although it doesnt exist per se, it is impotant.

100watts RMS is the same as 100 watts at DC

No! 100W average is the same as 100W of DC.
Re-read this article:
http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf

The RMS value of the power is meaningless and useless

What is important to know is that the RMS value of the voltage of a sine wave going through a load is used to determine the heating power.

In easy terms,
7.07V peak (5VRMS) through a load of 10 ohms is 2.5Wavg
5VDC through the same load is also 2.5W
However if you take 7.07V peak into 10 ohms it gives 5W peak, but the RMS value of this 5W is 3.53WRMS, not the 2.5W of heating power.

The RMS value of sine wave power is NOT the power of the RMS Voltage into a given load. It's meaningless

Woofer
09-04-2010, 07:29 AM
100watts RMS is the same as 100 watts at DC

No! 100W average is the same as 100W of DC.
Re-read this article:
http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf

The RMS value of the power is meaningless and useless

What is important to know is that the RMS value of the voltage of a sine wave going through a load is used to determine the heating power.

In easy terms,
7.07V peak (5VRMS) through a load of 10 ohms is 2.5Wavg
5VDC through the same load is also 2.5W
However if you take 7.07V peak into 10 ohms it gives 5W peak, but the RMS value of this 5W is 3.53WRMS, not the 2.5W of heating power.

The RMS value of sine wave power is NOT the power of the RMS Voltage into a given load. It's meaningless

What should we be saying then?
How should the power handling of a speaker be expressed?

This is one of those tricky ones, just like dB when used to state SPL.
If I remember correctly, I think Phons is the correct terminology for loudness, isn't it?
Correct me or shoot me if I'm wrong.... :o:

timc
09-04-2010, 10:48 AM
dBSPL is clearly defined, and should not be confused with intensity.

Power handling of a speakers should just be watts. Continous and peak.


-Tim

jack_bouska
09-05-2010, 05:17 AM
ok - back to the links with pictures of horns, this time some JBL to drool over

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=65e2671d-3f3d-401d-9da1-d5ee78fe573b

3D view of dealer showroom auto-comosited courtesy Microsoft and someone with the tag: subsoniq

MartinV56
02-05-2012, 08:58 AM
http://www.hifichile.cl/index.php?/topic/921-horns/page__st__480__gopid__110411#entry110411

Maron Horonzakz
02-05-2012, 11:26 AM
Hey !!! I got a ashtrey just like that..!!!! Nice horns !!!

Lee in Montreal
06-19-2012, 09:41 PM
Found that.

4 Ubangi and what looks like two Shearer.

56079

Found here.
http://www.proaudiospace.com/profiles/blogs/old-vintage-gear-or-what-did?xg_source=activity&id=2910192%3ABlogPost%3A7076&page=2

Mike F
06-20-2012, 09:36 PM
Found that.

4 Ubangi and what looks like two Shearer.

56079

Found here.
http://www.proaudiospace.com/profiles/blogs/old-vintage-gear-or-what-did?xg_source=activity&id=2910192%3ABlogPost%3A7076&page=2

And what looks to be a Community Leviathan (un-extended) over on the very left of the stack.
Side fill duty perhaps.

Lee in Montreal
06-21-2012, 06:39 AM
And what looks to be a Community Leviathan (un-extended) over on the very left of the stack.
Side fill duty perhaps.


You seem to be correct. ;-)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg262/StuartWelwood/File0085.jpg

Mike F
06-21-2012, 09:04 AM
You seem to be correct. ;-)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg262/StuartWelwood/File0085.jpg

Man does that picture bring back memories! Back in the early `80s, I worked for a company that had 4 of those beasts, can you say "efficient" :D

1audiohack
06-21-2012, 10:44 AM
Man does that picture bring back memories! Back in the early `80s, I worked for a company that had 4 of those beasts, can you say "efficient" :D


You should hear them in a house loaded with JBL2227's! See post 131.

Mike F
06-21-2012, 11:03 AM
You should hear them in a house loaded with JBL2227's! See post 131.

I love it! Now what really would impress me is a pair of extended Leviathans sitting atop some Big Bertha`s:eek:

1audiohack
06-21-2012, 11:17 AM
How about these? They qualify as a system if you read the PDF. These have serious OMG factor. These are in my friends back yard.5609956101

4313B
06-21-2012, 11:20 AM
How about these? They qualify as a system if you read the PDF. These have serious OMG factor. Tese are in my friends back yard.I assume they are hooked up to his phone so he can hear it ring while mowing the lawn?

Lee in Montreal
06-21-2012, 11:30 AM
I assume they are hooked up to his phone so he can hear it ring while mowing the lawn?

:applaud:

4343
06-21-2012, 05:17 PM
I assume they are hooked up to his phone so he can hear it ring while mowing the lawn?

You could probably drive those with the earphone out from a phone. Not sure if it would be louder than a mower, but I bet it would be close!

Mike F
06-21-2012, 11:26 PM
How about these? They qualify as a system if you read the PDF. These have serious OMG factor. These are in my friends back yard.5609956101

6 15" drivers? thats just insane! How are they configured?
I`d bet he can alter local weather patterns with those:eek:

1audiohack
06-21-2012, 11:48 PM
Just ahead of the rear cap the shape of the throat can be seen, the 15's are in a radial array with one at 12: O'clock, then one each at 2:, 4:, 6:, 8: and 10:

I don't know about altering weather but you could sure alter the path of anything with hearing. :)

MartinV56
07-08-2012, 07:20 PM
Hi Guys

Some update of my system, wood round horns

56237

56239

martin_wu99
07-09-2012, 09:18 AM
Hi Guys

Some update of my system, wood round horns

56237

56239

So beautiful:applaud:

MartinV56
07-09-2012, 11:39 AM
56243

http://www.hifichile.cl/index.php?/topic/921-horns/page__st__2010

MartinV56
07-09-2012, 11:48 AM
56244

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/oswaldmill08/oswald.html

MartinV56
07-09-2012, 11:51 AM
56245

605 Duplex 612 cabinet , Beatles for ever
http://www.hifichile.cl/index.php?/topic/921-horns/page__st__1770

hatrack71
07-11-2012, 12:21 PM
So beautiful:applaud: +1 Tell us where you got those. Also, which drivers are you running on each?

MartinV56
07-11-2012, 03:05 PM
+1 Tell us where you got those. Also, which drivers are you running on each?

Tri-amping system with crossover electronic

Bass: Sep amp 6550, BLR Horn, Eminence Beta 10" (enclousure Coral 10" BLR horn) I would like a altec 406-8y Bolero woofer
Midrange: Set 300B, wood round horn, (altec 802 one diaphragm is bad,kaputt), in this moment replace with pyle pds 772, (poor man altec802:dont-know:
HF: Set 71A, wood roun horn, Selenium 220ti

Hans Bleeker
11-14-2012, 10:53 AM
Image if my horn system, thought it would fit in here.


57472

maxserg
11-14-2012, 06:30 PM
You seem to be correct. ;-)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg262/StuartWelwood/File0085.jpg

Remebmers me when I saw the Bee Gees and philarmonic orchestra at Montreal Forum in the early seventee's they had a two-4 way setups per side(all horn loaded) and the bass horns had 4 fifteen inches woofers per box (woowfer's chambers were finished in transparent varnish plywood with red fiberglass horns with eight "Session" style lock clips per box). The sound was amazingly hi-fi. I must mention that the forum was in a "concert bold" arrangement(Almost only the half of the forum wit giant and heavy curtain from top to bottom and side to side). That gave a much better acoustics and "smaller" audience, around 7.000 peoples. Great memories!

Mike F
11-14-2012, 08:19 PM
Remebmers me when I saw the Bee Gees and philarmonic orchestra at Montreal Forum in the early seventee's they had a two-4 way setups per side(all horn loaded) and the bass horns had 4 fifteen inches woofers per box (woowfer's chambers were finished in transparent varnish plywood with red fiberglass horns with eight "Session" style lock clips per box). The sound was amazingly hi-fi. I must mention that the forum was in a "concert bold" arrangement(Almost only the half of the forum wit giant and heavy curtain from top to bottom and side to side). That gave a much better acoustics and "smaller" audience, around 7.000 peoples. Great memories!

Boy do those bring back memories! When working for a local sound company in the 80`s, I just loved mixing on the big a$$ Community system which consisted of 2x Extended Leviathans loaded with EVM 15L, 2 GGM`s w/EVM15B,and 4x 2441 loaded BRH-90 a side all Crown driven.
Ah the good ole days.....:)

djnagle
12-03-2012, 11:20 AM
Here is my system now.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/djnagle/IMAG0095.jpg

.

NickH
12-03-2012, 11:38 AM
Here is my system now.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/djnagle/IMAG0095.jpg

.

Dont see any gm70's there.

Are they hiding somewhere?

Woofer
12-03-2012, 07:45 PM
Here is my system now.

.

Simplicity rules.....
I wish I could cut mine back to something more manageable, but that's just not gonna happen.
Anyway, very nice setup you have there. :)

Cheers all...

MartinV56
07-26-2013, 10:51 AM
59533
59534

My two horn systems

speedysteve
01-24-2014, 01:39 PM
I came here to look a few things up on OSG's; I've visited before but lingered this time:)
Thought I'd share my system with you guys.

It evolved over 3-4 years from a 300Hz conical doing HF on a Tannoy GRF doing bass, briefly to a 3/4 way conical and then 5 way with tapped horns.
I then replaced all the conicals with tractix and an exponential on mid bass. Apart from the mid horns (upper most ones) they are all DIY turned / created.

Currently looks like this;

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/speedysteve7/hifi/Conical%20horn%20project/Horn%20thread%20on%20Wam/Page61/IMG_4255.jpg (http://s727.photobucket.com/user/speedysteve7/media/hifi/Conical%20horn%20project/Horn%20thread%20on%20Wam/Page61/IMG_4255.jpg.html)

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/speedysteve7/hifi/Conical%20horn%20project/Horn%20thread%20on%20Wam/Page%2063/9b85b0d6-091f-4ca2-94c1-e3282e3c6235.jpg (http://s727.photobucket.com/user/speedysteve7/media/hifi/Conical%20horn%20project/Horn%20thread%20on%20Wam/Page%2063/9b85b0d6-091f-4ca2-94c1-e3282e3c6235.jpg.html)

Drivers / crossovers used are
Tweeters: Raal Lazy Ribbons 11KHz up (1st order 1.1uF cap)
Upper mids: Tractrix 550Hz wooden, Vitavox S2 1100Hz -up (1st order 3uF cap)
Mids: Tractrix 200Hz GRP/composite, JBL 2482 330Hz - 1100Hz (2nd order L-R / 2nd order BS) DSP
Mid bass: Exponential wooden, Eminence Kappa 15A 90Hz to 330Hz (4th order L-R / 2nd order L-R) DSP with a 1 room mode correction
Bass: Tapped, Eminence Kappa Pro 15 LFII 20Hz to 100Hz (4th order L-R / 4th order L-R) DSP with a couple of room mode corrections.

DSP time aligned.

DSP X/O is DIYaudio's WAF Najda.

stephane RAME
01-24-2014, 11:56 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_S_6M8DeHOY/Ut9fo_7DNUI/AAAAAAAADD0/kDPtzyPSi-s/s1600/P1050307.JPG

Davis Acoustics 40RCA15 DF
JBL 2450J-1 + clone TH4001
Davis Acoustics 40RCA15 DF

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35331-News-speakers-FD-Audio-SR-D402

Stéphane

Mostlydiy
01-25-2014, 01:01 AM
Nice work Steve,

I know how much work one has to put into a system like that.

Its looks a bit Romy inspired :)

I used to have tapped horns too, but it didnt work out for me so Im in the process of evaluating different bass solutions now. Actually my setup is kind of like a pilot setup changing drivers and horns all the time. Yesterday I installed a pair of 2350 with 2482 that I will run a few weeks until the next horn/driver comes along.

How come you settled for that midbass woofer? I think there are better midbass horn woofers. JBL has lots of them.

How did you turn your midbass horns? I glued layers of MDF(dont know what its called in english) and turned them in 4 parts.

http://www.minhembio.com/mostlydiy/317875/

/Mostly

speedysteve
01-25-2014, 10:42 AM
Thanks Mostly,
Yes, only so many ways that work to skin that proverbial cat;)

The Eminence was a recommendation from a couple of fellow horn mid bass users. It also modelled very well in Hornresp and makes a great bass / drums midbass sound.
I have had the chance to test a Vitavox AK-157. Not the fabled 151 though.
What good value 15" would you recommend?

The Eminence are very good value for money and do the job well.

The tapped horns I find very fast deep and well ordered with a bit of room mode correction.

I like your website. Nice turning / lathe work there. Allt på svenska! Jag är svensk talande, bodde i Stockholm och Linköping 10år under 80-90 talet.

My next project will be a rectangular exponential flare mid bass horn...


Nice work Steve,

I know how much work one has to put into a system like that.

Its looks a bit Roomy inspired :)

I used to have tapped horns too, but it didnt work out for me so Im in the process of evaluating different bass solutions now. Actually my setup is kind of like a pilot setup changing drivers and horns all the time. Yesterday I installed a pair of 2350 with 2482 that I will run a few weeks until the next horn/driver comes along.

How come you settled for that midbass woofer? I think there are better midbass horn woofers. JBL has lots of them.

How did you turn your midbass horns? I glued layers of MDF(dont know what its called in english) and turned them in 4 parts.

http://www.minhembio.com/mostlydiy/317875/

/Mostly

Carl_Huff
01-25-2014, 04:17 PM
"The Eminence was a recommendation from a couple of fellow horn mid bass users ..."

Which Eminence model number??
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Mostlydiy
01-26-2014, 05:55 AM
Steve,

I far as I know one wants a driver with relatively high Fs and BL, low Qts and a rigid and light cone. Compare it with JBL 2220 for instance. The 2220 is a very good horn driver with exelent horn loading properties. JBL has lots of 15" good for midbassduty in horn applications. 2220, 2227, D130, K130, E130, 2135(which I currently use), E145.

/Mostly

more10
01-26-2014, 06:15 AM
I agree with Mostlydiy regarding JBL drívers.

If you want new drivers, check out UK made Precision Devices (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Range/Models/15). I like specs for PD.154 (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD154), PD.1550 (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD1550), PD.158 (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD158), PD.153ER (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD153-ER). You can buy them from Thomann (http://www.thomann.de/gb/search.html?KF=on&gk=palplk15&oa=ala&bn=Precision+Devices&pr=&wgfid1=10950&wgf10950=).

Mårten

speedysteve
01-26-2014, 11:32 AM
Eminence Kappa 15-A's in the mid bass and Kappa Pro LF-2's in the tapped horns.

Thanks for the recommendations - I will do some Hornresp modelling with the T&S params and may save up some pennies :)

speedysteve
01-26-2014, 12:12 PM
Interestingly the first 3 of these all model about the same as the Eminence Kappa 15-A.

The JBL 2220 that Mostly recommended models even better!


I agree with Mostlydiy regarding JBL drívers.

If you want new drivers, check out UK made Precision Devices (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Range/Models/15). I like specs for PD.154 (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD154), PD.1550 (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD1550), PD.158 (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD158), PD.153ER (http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD153-ER). You can buy them from Thomann (http://www.thomann.de/gb/search.html?KF=on&gk=palplk15&oa=ala&bn=Precision+Devices&pr=&wgfid1=10950&wgf10950=).

Mårten

Mostlydiy
01-26-2014, 11:52 PM
My next project will be a rectangular exponential flare mid bass horn...

Same for me. I need a midbass solution for my HT. I will dust of a few 2202A. Another superb horn driver.

/Mostly

more10
01-29-2014, 03:13 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aqVu5DY-yCs/UuV6y0Ch12I/AAAAAAAAHa0/36Kh7Ir_izM/s800/1150224_10152152540871287_1689412962_n.jpg

grumpy
01-29-2014, 11:32 AM
Holy moly... almost seems like earplugs wouldn't be enough... perhaps some adult diapers.

Mr. Widget
01-29-2014, 12:54 PM
Holy moly... almost seems like earplugs wouldn't be enough... perhaps some adult diapers.:applaud: :rotfl: :applaud:


Widget

fpitas
01-30-2014, 05:48 AM
61415

more10
01-30-2014, 05:59 AM
spinal tap volume control search on google (https://www.google.se/search?q=spinal+tap+volume+control&espv=210&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=fEzqUsvLA6au4ASotIGoCw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1833&bih=1051&dpr=0.9)

Woofer
01-30-2014, 06:11 AM
72 subs….
I wonder what these ones are?
That's 32 more than what I've used, and even THAT was just bowel disengaging. :blink:
…. but then again, they were Turbosound TSW-124 [24"]
Come to think of it, they looked just like these ones! LoL :bouncy:

more10
01-30-2014, 06:35 AM
Cerwin Vega B36 I believe.

speedysteve
01-30-2014, 11:58 AM
I got me a pair of them there 2220's - should arrive in a few days.
If they sound as good as they model then 2/5's of my system will be JBL:)

I did use a pair of JBL2435Be 1.5" compression drivers on the upper mid, but tried the S2 route and once getting them refurbed by Mike at Vitavox with the new diaphragms etc etc there was no going back...


Interestingly the first 3 of these all model about the same as the Eminence Kappa 15-A.

The JBL 2220 that Mostly recommended models even better!

speedysteve
01-30-2014, 11:59 AM
I'd like to feel that!!!




https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aqVu5DY-yCs/UuV6y0Ch12I/AAAAAAAAHa0/36Kh7Ir_izM/s800/1150224_10152152540871287_1689412962_n.jpg

JuniorJBL
01-30-2014, 12:15 PM
Cerwin Vega B36 I believe.


Now if they were loaded with 2242's you may create an earthquake!! :D

Eaulive
01-31-2014, 07:59 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aqVu5DY-yCs/UuV6y0Ch12I/AAAAAAAAHa0/36Kh7Ir_izM/s800/1150224_10152152540871287_1689412962_n.jpg

And some people thought line arrays were the latest technology :D

That has to have a killer directivity pattern!

Fort Knox
01-31-2014, 08:07 AM
61420

Point source is still King

Mostlydiy
02-01-2014, 02:27 AM
Nice, I hope you like them.

I havent heard the vitavox S2 but I have read quite a lot about them and they seem very popular. I would love to try a pair one day. They are hard to come by and ebay prices are just ridiculus on those. You even prefer them to the 2435Be, that says alot about them I would say.

/Mostly


I got me a pair of them there 2220's - should arrive in a few days.
If they sound as good as they model then 2/5's of my system will be JBL:)

I did use a pair of JBL2435Be 1.5" compression drivers on the upper mid, but tried the S2 route and once getting them refurbed by Mike at Vitavox with the new diaphragms etc etc there was no going back...

Woofer
02-02-2014, 05:05 AM
Nice, I hope you like them.

I havent heard the vitavox S2 but I have read quite a lot about them and they seem very popular. I would love to try a pair one day. They are hard to come by and ebay prices are just ridiculus on those. You even prefer them to the 2435Be, that says alot about them I would say.

/Mostly

They are a very sweet driver but really belong on multi-cells, and crossed over at 800Hz+
Otherwise, best suited to home use off passive x-o's and a smallish valve amp.
I set up a pair for a mate, and he loved 'em, until he changed his setup and tried using an active x-o, and inadvertently dialled 'em in at 100Hz, and blew 'em to bits in no time flat.

Try and find a replacement pair of diaphragms for them, and not have to mortgage your house!

Better to stay with stuff that's more accessible should the worst happen.

more10
02-06-2014, 11:22 AM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106944188/2014-02-01 19.22.02.jpg

My caravan horn system :-)

Eaulive
02-06-2014, 05:37 PM
How about a 2370 on an Iphone? :applaud:

61485

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/eaulive/21427989/in/album/445871
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/eaulive/21427977/in/album/445871

BeDome
02-07-2014, 12:34 AM
Obvious Question:


How does it sound?

speedysteve
02-21-2014, 11:55 AM
They are a very sweet driver but really belong on multi-cells, and crossed over at 800Hz+
Otherwise, best suited to home use off passive x-o's and a smallish valve amp.
I set up a pair for a mate, and he loved 'em, until he changed his setup and tried using an active x-o, and inadvertently dialled 'em in at 100Hz, and blew 'em to bits in no time flat.

Try and find a replacement pair of diaphragms for them, and not have to mortgage your house!

Better to stay with stuff that's more accessible should the worst happen.

Agree. I use my 1200Hz and up passive and on a small EL-84 SET. I find the sound so sweet and precise - stunning.
They are rare and you're better off buying non working ones and having them refurbed and new diaphragms fitted to get the best spec.
They are in new production too! £3500 each I believe.

My JBL2220's are on a slow boat from Canada...

maxserg
02-21-2014, 05:48 PM
61420

Point source is still King

Isn't more like line source????:rolleyes:

Woofer
02-21-2014, 06:47 PM
Agree. I use my 1200Hz and up passive and on a small EL-84 SET. I find the sound so sweet and precise - stunning.
They are rare and you're better off buying non working ones and having them refurbed and new diaphragms fitted to get the best spec.
They are in new production too! £3500 each I believe.

My JBL2220's are on a slow boat from Canada...

How much are the replacement diaphragms now?

I also like 2220's. Their cones are so much lighter than any of the 'ribbed' cones giving the impression of being more responsive (faster), and to my ageing ears have a nice "even-ness" (?) to them.
They don't go down to 20Hz, but there's a lot above that, that it will do, and do it well.

My 6x EL-84 amp (not SET tho') is still my fave amongst my collection and used daily.

… and yes, ALL boats from Canada are slow. Took me 3 months to get a delivery recently, (after paying for Airmail). :(

Mr. Widget
02-21-2014, 08:48 PM
How much are the replacement diaphragms now?

I also like 2220's. Their cones are so much lighter than any of the 'ribbed' cones giving the impression of being more responsive (faster), and to my ageing ears have a nice "even-ness" (?) to them.
They don't go down to 20Hz, but there's a lot above that, that it will do, and do it well.

My 6x EL-84 amp (not SET tho') is still my fave amongst my collection and used daily.

… and yes, ALL boats from Canada are slow. Took me 3 months to get a delivery recently, (after paying for Airmail). :(I had a pair of 2220As in a home system decades ago... I knew far less about designing speakers and the subwoofer concept hadn't emerged yet. I was never able to really be happy with them.


Widget

Woofer
02-21-2014, 09:01 PM
I had a pair of 2220As in a home system decades ago... I knew far less about designing speakers and the subwoofer concept hadn't emerged yet. I was never able to really be happy with them.


Widget

I hear wot you're saying Widget.
I use to cheat a little bit by adding a DBX 100 Boombox to get that extra ! or 2 Hz. The 2220's (in J-bins) would cope nicely and can go lower, if you didn't go crazy with the volume control.
I wasn't a critical listener back then as I was basically a rock n' roll live sound guy, so wot did I know?
…. and now I'm too old and can't tell the difference anyway.
As long as there's music, and I can tap my toe to it, I'm happy.

cjwebber
02-28-2014, 08:36 AM
Here's my current setup:

D140-R
375 w/Edgarhorns
2403

driven by a JE Labs 2a3 through a Jolida Tube DAC

61589

Doc Mark
03-01-2014, 08:59 AM
Howdy, CJWebber,

Ultra-cool photo of your system, and you and your Lady, kicked back, enjoying the music!! Well done, and thanks for sharing it with us! God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Kalle
03-09-2014, 12:41 AM
Hi!

Mabye someone already posted this but in this tread there is a lot of pictures and descriptions of horn systems: http://www.audiovoice-acoustics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168 (http://www.audiovoice-acoustics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168&page=2)

Enjoy:)

/Kalle

speedysteve
03-21-2014, 02:38 PM
But first a little update on some new mid bass horns I built.

Here they are in the workshop

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/speedysteve7/hifi/Ritchie mid bass/WP_20140307_003.jpg (http://s727.photobucket.com/user/speedysteve7/media/hifi/Ritchie mid bass/WP_20140307_003.jpg.html)

Square peg in a round hole:)

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/speedysteve7/hifi/Ritchie mid bass/WP_20140312_004.jpg (http://s727.photobucket.com/user/speedysteve7/media/hifi/Ritchie mid bass/WP_20140312_004.jpg.html)

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/speedysteve7/hifi/Ritchie mid bass/WP_20140312_014.jpg (http://s727.photobucket.com/user/speedysteve7/media/hifi/Ritchie mid bass/WP_20140312_014.jpg.html)

These were modelled and built for the Eminence Kappa 15A drivers.

They kick ass more than the shorter larger throat ones with the same driver. Great for rockier / heavier music... (Nirvana Lithium, ACDC Back in Black etc etc)

I've been listening to them for a while now, However I thought I'd share this too:-

Then today I was able to loan a pair of JBl 2225J 15" drivers.

I loaded them into my shorter / larger throat round exponential mid bass horns for a trial - I have a pair of JBL 2220H's on a slow boat from Canada arriving at some point so the 2225 are for loan and a test out.

Initial thoughts were that they were a bit lighter on bass compared to my Kappa 15A's on the same horn.
Played all sorts of stuff, but centred around rock and heavy rock / bassy stuff they got better and better.
2 scenarios came to mind. One is that they were NOS as they look absolutely mint and we are running them in and they were freeing up. The other is that they are little used and have sat on a shelf face down for years and years and the suspension etc went through a similar freeing up.

Bit of a revelation really!

So I have high hopes for the 2220's that model slightly better than the 2225's do on my round exponential's. Lower Qt among other things.

speedysteve
07-22-2014, 12:26 PM
Here is what became of the rect exponential horns

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/speedysteve7/hifi/Magna%20Audio/Ritchiesbasshorn_system.jpg (http://s727.photobucket.com/user/speedysteve7/media/hifi/Magna%20Audio/Ritchiesbasshorn_system.jpg.html)

Steve Schell
07-22-2014, 11:43 PM
Good show, speedysteve! Many audiophiles have little concept of the potential phenomenal accuracy and ultra-involving sound of such a time-aligned horn system as yours. Listen to favorite LPs with the lights out and time travel to exotic destinations. Best wishes as you continue your journey!