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charlesmc75
12-18-2005, 07:46 AM
What are the opinions on building a L300 summit clone using TAD drivers? TL-1601c for the LF, TD-4001 for the mids, and the ET-703 for the highs? the enclosure might have to be a little larger than stock for the 1601, but why not? the original L-300 was a bit short anyhow. And that et-703 goes up to 45k, at least according to TAD.

speakerdave
12-18-2005, 08:12 AM
Widget's been working on a similar speaker using TAD treble and ultra high frequency drivers, but he prefers the JBL 1500AL woofer. Don dropped a note in here a while back saying he'd talked to some TAD people. The accordian surrounds are there for durability because the woofers are often used in recording studios for the mains and they get pounded bad. With foam surrounds the warrantee work was killing them. But sonically they preferred the foam.

The 1500AL woofer is a development of the Alnico motor which includes and exceeds the engineering JBL devised to make the ferrite motors sound better back in the 80's. Do a search here and read up on it. It's very articulate bass. Don't know what the availability is.

Your idea would probably be a very good speaker. Just thought I'd suggest you look into the JBL woofer.

David

Edit: What horn would you use?

And then there's the crossover.

charlesmc75
12-18-2005, 09:03 AM
the 1500al would probably be my first choice, as well as the other Be goodies from the k2-9800 but availibility issues rule them out, unless i want to import them from japan, but ouch$$$$ so a 1601 would do, maybe a e145 or something similar. classic audio reproductions sell the 537-509 lens for 750 a pair. not a bad price really. i know that they are not original to the L300, but you don't hear hartsfield owners complaining. http://www.classicaudiorepro.com/carimages/HL2.JPGhttp://www.classicaudiorepro.com/carimages/HL1.JPG

speakerdave
12-18-2005, 09:29 AM
Seems as though you have looked into it thoroughly. I didn't know about that horn/lens reproduction and am glad to learn of it. Have you heard it? I've never heard a Hartsfield.

David

charlesmc75
12-18-2005, 09:41 AM
no i have not heard them, but classic audio reproduction's stuff gets good reviews, even dr. harvey gizmo gave them a thumbs up. i am thinking about starting a project soon, and i am in the research, brainstorming phase. just playing around with different ideas. it would be nice if someone could give me their impressions on the old style jbl horn lens vs. a more modern wooden radial horn. i know that the radial will go lower, but i have a smallish room. and the horn lens shouldn't be overpowering in my enviroment. thats why they were so popular in studio control rooms. but with that being said, all of the tad's that i have seen in studio pics are radial horns.

Ken Pachkowsky
12-18-2005, 10:23 AM
I have not heard widgets system lately but have spent a great deal of time talking to him over the last 3 years. He is tough to please. I was talking to him the other day and he says his new boxes are the best system he has ever heard. Take it for what you will, but it almost got me driving the 9 hours to check them out.

Ken

charlesmc75
12-18-2005, 10:59 AM
i did a search and i think that he sold them. his cabinet design looks incredible. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7784&highlight=tad i am stuned at the amazing projects in this forum, i wish i had half of the ability of the diy gods that i have seen here.

Zilch
12-18-2005, 12:17 PM
Naw, that was his earlier attempt at building them, aborted due to cabinet resonance problems.

We haven't seen his latest version, other than as a pile of MDF dust in his CNC mill, here on the forum yet. :p

Ian Mackenzie
12-18-2005, 12:54 PM
What are the opinions on building a L300 summit clone using TAD drivers? TL-1601c for the LF, TD-4001 for the mids, and the ET-703 for the highs? the enclosure might have to be a little larger than stock for the 1601, but why not? the original L-300 was a bit short anyhow. And that et-703 goes up to 45k, at least according to TAD.

Charles,

Interesting idea but the limiting factor of the L300 was not the drivers but the disscontinuity b/n the woofer and the horn. This is partly what drove the 4430-35 research and there is a very good paper by David Smith published on the forums about the issues.

If you use a different horn fine, but it won't be anything like a L300.

May I suggest the Tad woofer, a 4001 with a JBL 2344 horn per the 4430 design outline, tweeter not necessarily required. If you use the JBL $1500AL would would be wise to Eq the bottom two octaves.

Enter the complex world of loudspeaker design

Mr. Widget
12-18-2005, 01:14 PM
Hey Ian,

I agree that the transition from the woofer to the horn is the weakest link in that design, but I'd suggest going the 4343/4 route instead of the 44XX route... It is subjective, but I find there is still a problem with the 44XX design... the 15" driver is asked to do too much.

Also if you do go with a TAD and a 2344, you should use a 1" TAD. Either the 2001 or the 2002. Either will require a fair amount of crossover design research as they have different characteristics than the JBLs and as it has been hinted at along the way of Zilch's thread... CD compensation isn't a one size fits all proposition.

My two cents worth...


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
12-18-2005, 01:57 PM
I am not familiari with TAD model numbers..

I recall Kent E has successfully used a TAD 2001 with the 2344..he maybe able to advise the Eq updates if requested.

yggdrasil
12-18-2005, 02:09 PM
With the 4001 you could look at larger horns with a lower crossover point.

Mr. Widget
12-18-2005, 02:13 PM
With the 4001 you could look at larger horns with a lower crossover point.Absolutely! That is the way I would go! As others have said... bigger horns sound better. That's a gross generalization... please don't take it literally, but I think you know what I mean.


Widget

Uncle Paul
12-18-2005, 02:32 PM
Widget, Where did you get those TH-4003 clones?

Mr. Widget
12-18-2005, 02:34 PM
Made 'em.

Widget

Zilch
12-18-2005, 03:17 PM
Stick with JBL:

Mr. Widget
12-18-2005, 04:45 PM
another thing that i was playing with was a copy of the tad model 2251 monitior...Now that takes the discussion firmly into the Off Topic Threads area...

I get the feeling that you are building an L300 clone much like Zilch has cloned the 4430.:rotfl:

Widget

charlesmc75
12-18-2005, 04:58 PM
no, i haven't started a L300 clone, its an idea, i want to see if it is feasible or not a good idea. i actually have a few different ideas. this being one of them. sorry if i got off topic.

trekman
12-18-2005, 06:31 PM
What are the opinions on building a L300 summit clone using TAD drivers? TL-1601c for the LF..............

Keep in mind 1601c drivers are no longer sold, and I have never seen them available lately. I have only seen one used pair online in 2 years. Most online sources that say they have them, don't.
Malcolm

toddalin
12-18-2005, 06:43 PM
What are the opinions on building a L300 summit clone using TAD drivers? TL-1601c for the LF, TD-4001 for the mids, and the ET-703 for the highs? the enclosure might have to be a little larger than stock for the 1601, but why not? the original L-300 was a bit short anyhow. And that et-703 goes up to 45k, at least according to TAD.

Let me see if I got this straight... You're calling it an L300 clone but it doesn't use a 136A/LE-85/077, let alone JBL components at all, and to top it all off, the cabinet won't even be the same size...http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blink.gif

Maybe I missing something but how is this even a clone and not just another TAD horn-loaded 3-way???http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/confused.gif

Zilch
12-18-2005, 06:55 PM
Hee, hee.

Todd holds the forum's feet to the fire!

:D

Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2005, 04:33 AM
If you want a real joy ride build up some diy 2397's, buy some 2441 cores, add some 2405's and see what happens....you won't be sorry

Michael Smith
12-19-2005, 01:29 PM
Well Ian
That is a joy ride that I am embarking on 2397/Westlake 2441 and 077.
I was wondering how on earth you can have a L300 clone without any James B components?
If I used 4 X 2235 woofers could I call them L600, I say that a TAD tongue in cheek.
Michael

Mr. Widget
12-19-2005, 01:39 PM
You guys... you're beating up on a Newbie... maybe he was going to replicate the industrial design of the L300... that is certainly valid in my book.

On the other hand some on this forum have called some pretty strange combinations of JBL components a clone of this or that...


Widget

JonathanKeehn
12-20-2005, 02:51 PM
If I were building another L-300 style system from scratch and wanted the best drivers I would consider using a JBL 1500AL, a TAD 4001 with a Bruce Edgar Tractrix Wood Horn, a TAD ET 703 tweeter and a custom designed crossover. I think it would rival the K2 S9800 until the K2 drivers become available domestically from JBL. (Anybody know if JBL management is any closer to selling their new generation of drivers in the US - or is that in the same category as when hell freezes over)? I've thought of trying a JBL 1500AL and a TAD 2001 in my JBL L-300 clone along with the 077's. I love the speed and micro detail of the beryllium diaphrams as I have owned a pair of Yamaha NS-1000m's since 1977 and still consider it the best small 3-way monitor ever built. To my recollection, Yamaha was the first to use this exotic material, followed by TAD and most recently JBL.