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kingjames
12-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Just bought a huge,I mean huge Pioneer SX1250 at a garage sale for $25.00,it's not the prettiest thing around,being that it has a few scratches and the paint is coming off the heat sinks,but this thing must weigh 75lbs. It all lights up and it all works and I didn't hear any weird noise or anything. There is also a broke piece of veneer on the side.What's up with this amp? Is this a find, or did I waste my money? This thing is huge compared to my Mac4200,I am looking for a little more power then what I have.It looks like it's from the 70's or so. Look how big those thing-i-ma-giggy's are.There twice as big as the one's in my Mac,I already know what your gonna say,it doesn't sound as good as a Mac, let me know what you think about this beast??:blink:

norealtalent
12-17-2005, 05:08 PM
Great find!!! 160 wpc and sold for $950 25 years ago. Highly sought after in the Vintage Pioneer market. Very similar to the old Marantz recievers. I had it's little brother,the SX1080, 120 wpc, a few years back. A lot of balls but NO headroom. I'd clean it up and sell it. Between that and your MAC you could finance a really great amp on the used market. Without looking, I'd guess $300-$500, maybe more, on the ebay market this spring. Nice job!:bouncy:

Mr. Widget
12-17-2005, 05:12 PM
This is what I think about that receiver and the Mac...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8131

For $25 that Pioneer is quite a deal...

A few years ago a friend gave me a Pioneer Elite M-90 that was no longer needed... I had high hopes for it as it was a very sexy looking amp with autoformers at the output to mimic a large McIntosh amp... it weighed a ton, it sounded like an average receiver.


Widget

Mr. Widget
12-17-2005, 05:14 PM
Just saw Mr. Talent's response... yes, yes, yes!!! Clean it up and sell it and the Mac... then get a great amp!

Widget

jbl4ever
12-17-2005, 05:27 PM
Nice find Kingjames. Do you go to the Saturday Audio Exchange in Chicago

kingjames
12-17-2005, 06:30 PM
Damn Sam, I just hooked this beast up to my SOV II'S and my 4425's and I couldn't go past 3 on the volume, 3 on this volume was the same as all the way up on my Mac, it might be a little shitty but this thing bumps. I have to me mad giving up a Mac for a Pioneer, but it sounds good to me, and this Mac, I don't think drove my JBL'S to their full potential. My JBL'S sound so good with this $25.00 beast, I just might have to keep it and clean it up. Very satisfied with my find, hell' when you get to be my age anything running JBL'S sound's good!:applaud:I see Jbl4ever you live in Mchenry IL, I used to live in Crystal lake,IL, I never have gone to that Audio Exchange but maybe I'll get up there one Saturday.

norealtalent
12-17-2005, 06:46 PM
For what it is, its a killer piece of equipment. For $25 you could feel guilty. SELL, SELL, SELL!!! Take a walk on the wild side, BIGGER, BETTER, BADDER!!!!! Once you go good quality seperates you'll never go back!!!:bouncy:

boputnam
12-17-2005, 07:00 PM
... it sounded like an average receiver.My experience with this "level" of consumer gear is it significantly lacks bottom. Damping factor / output impedence sucks.

pioneer
12-17-2005, 07:17 PM
I have owned a Pioneer 1250 for close to 30 years that powers my L100's and have no complaint. It has worked very well and I have enjoyed the set up(even though it has no headroom what ever that means) but it does have balls. Clean it up if you can get $3-$500 great deal. I am not sure how it would work with other JBL models but I am actively looking to find out.

Mr. Widget
12-17-2005, 07:35 PM
I have owned a Pioneer 1250 for close to 30 years that powers my L100's and have no complaint.I have used a Kenwood KA3500 (40 watt integrated) virtually continuously for the last 28 years or so myself... no complaints. It literally has been on 24/7 out in my shop for the past 10-12 years... it is nice. It is probably not all that different from your Pioneer, but being smaller it has less...

However, if you want to hear even more from your speakers, and enjoy them even more... a better amp really will make a difference.

I have been using Haflers and other amps for years now. In my current setup I have been using a pair of Hafler 9505s and a QSC built JBL MPA 600 in a tri-amp configuration. The QSC/JBL is powering a pair of subs and seems to have really good control and lots of head room (whatever that means;)) and the one Hafler is powering a woofer between 50Hz and 600Hz and I think it is doing a fine job... the other Hafler is powering a compression driver and tweeter... they are both horn loaded with a sensitivity of about 105dB/watt through their passive network... the 300wpc Hafler is a rather silly choice, but it is the best free amp I currently have. I have been meaning to buy or build a Tube amp ... I only need 5-10 watts. Anyway, pardon the ramble, but recently a fellow forum member lent me a small class A amp from Pass Labs' First Watt series... it is a 30 watt unit and it really did make a difference. The mids were less harsh... I hadn't realized they were inordinately harsh, but they were less harsh, and even though I matched the gain to within 0.1 dB (using my friend Clio) the 30 watt class A amp sounded less loud... less compressed perhaps... anyway it absolutely was an improvement.

There are differences. They may not be huge, they may cost more than the perceived value, but if you have the opportunity, you should try better electronics... not necessarily more expensive electronics, but if you read these threads and other posts on the web, you can distill the info down to a manageable list.

Widget

norealtalent
12-17-2005, 07:44 PM
Hey Widget, YOU got tubed? Next thing we know you'll be gettin' some of them ragged cats eyes!!!:applaud:Once you go tubes....:blah: :blah: :blah:

Mr. Widget
12-17-2005, 07:48 PM
Hey... maybe tubes would smooth them out??? Couldn't hurt.;)


Widget

jbl4ever
12-17-2005, 07:52 PM
Hey Kingjames, do you have 2-20amp outlets available. If so P.M. me and
maybe you would like to try some big Krell amps

kingjames
12-17-2005, 08:14 PM
I think i'm going to keep this beast, I'll use it somewhere,the Mac goes on Ebay tomorrow and what ever I get for that I'll buy some separates,what are some nice separates that are easy to operate and look fairy cool and how much are we talking.Something I think in the neighborhood of 150 watts per channel or 200. As always, thanks for your most valued opinions!;)


Note.. I know nothing about decibles,crossover points and (headroom,whatever that means) but I keep reading all the thread's to try and learn,so for now keep it simple where I can understand it. Thanks!

scott fitlin
12-17-2005, 08:18 PM
Hey Kingjames, do you have 2-20amp outlets available. If so P.M. me and
maybe you would like to try some big Krell ampsKrell kicks ass on the bottom! Tight, snappy fast accurate clean bottom!

JBL woofers and Krell would be great freinds for sure.

jbl4ever
12-17-2005, 08:36 PM
Krell kicks ass on the bottom! Tight, snappy fast accurate clean bottom!

JBL woofers and Krell would be great freinds for sure. Yea scott I have
tried loads of amps and found the Krells do the best. Use the mono blocks what
a soundstage:)

boputnam
12-17-2005, 09:52 PM
It has worked very well and I have enjoyed the set up (even though it has no headroom whatever that means)'nuff said. :spin:

Audiobeer
12-17-2005, 10:43 PM
In 1976 I purchased a pair of JBL-L65s and a Pioneer SX-1250. Those two mated so well that it to me it was the best I ever heard.....and in fact it was. The SX-1250 is a great reciever and it has balls! For $25 it will sound fantastic! :applaud:

Rolf
12-17-2005, 11:36 PM
The Pioneer is product of it's time when Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz ond other brands was fighting to build the most hi-powered recievers ever.

I cant remember who was the winner, but it was +300W pc:o:

Rolf

Ian Mackenzie
12-17-2005, 11:59 PM
I think all these larger than life receivers were pre the discovery of tid (transient intermodulation distortion..) when specs ruled the marketing and the brochure hunter.

They were fun though and many found their way in motels, clubs and bars because they had the numbers.

HK and their Citation series were one of the first to design for the blameless amplifier hence their vintage popularity.

GAS were also a breed apart of the day. I heard a Son of Gas up against a Marantz power amp of the same power rating driving a large Klipsch..there was no comparison in clarity and sheer loudness.

Ian

norealtalent
12-18-2005, 06:28 AM
I think i'm going to keep this beast, I'll use it somewhere,the Mac goes on Ebay tomorrow and what ever I get for that I'll buy some separates,what are some nice separates that are easy to operate and look fairy cool and how much are we talking.Something I think in the neighborhood of 150 watts per channel or 200. As always, thanks for your most valued opinions!;)


Note.. I know nothing about decibles,crossover points and (headroom,whatever that means) but I keep reading all the thread's to try and learn,so for now keep it simple where I can understand it. Thanks!

Headroom is irrelevant.
NO Headroom is the important part!!!
NO Headroom is when you're in the doghouse because there are too many JBLs in the livingroom causing the space between the ears to overflow with desperate thoughts of which has to go, the wife or the JBL's!!! :blink:

jim campbell
01-12-2006, 03:00 PM
Krells are the grail if you can afford em,but several moderate priced power amps will do much of what the krells will do.try inserting a power amp into the pre out jacks on your receiver and see what happens.with all due respect i think that headroom is very important.If your system uses say 10 watts then 100 should be in reserve for the passages that need it.A tech guy can probably better explain about transients ,rms,and the need for big power reserves but suffice it to say that when the volume goes up its the power that you need.As a demo i use The Fish by Yes.It has multiple bass parts that can sound mushy without ample power reserves.Ive been told that integrated designs are somewhat limited by the close proximity of the power stage to the pre amp stagehttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

Rolf
01-12-2006, 04:10 PM
Ive been told that integrated designs are somewhat limited by the close proximity of the power stage to the pre amp stagehttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

Who the he%ll told you that? With a good, and I mean a really good designed integrated amp (Read Expencive) you eliminate a lot of problems compared to separate pre and power amp(s). Just think about the cable connection between the two. In an itergrated amp you do not need cables.

There is also no problem to separate the two units (pre and power) in the same cabinet, but it takes skill from the company buliding it.

Rolf

jim campbell
01-12-2006, 05:59 PM
There was an article in one of the stereo type rags that said that power amps in the same box as pre amps is to be avoided.I dont know if this is because of hum or noise or magnetic fields from torroidal units,but I guess they probably know more than me.I do know that receivers that i attached power amps to did improve. I agree that you can avoid this with the higher price units.But for me If i was looking at spending big bucks on an integrated I would just as soon have separates

Rolf
01-13-2006, 02:04 AM
There was an article in one of the stereo type rags that said that power amps in the same box as pre amps is to be avoided.I dont know if this is because of hum or noise or magnetic fields from torroidal units,but I guess they probably know more than me.I do know that receivers that i attached power amps to did improve. I agree that you can avoid this with the higher price units.But for me If i was looking at spending big bucks on an integrated I would just as soon have separates

I agree with that in many cases, but as I said, a really good integrated consept is, or at least should be a better solution. Most amps of this class use wery good conection between the pre and the power amp. Of cource the pre and power section in an integrated amp must be totally separated. To get the same quality conection between a separate pre and power, you have to pay big money on cables. And even then the result might not be good.

Unfortunately, with todays audio setup witch include not only 2ch, but Dolby Digital/DTS etc, an integrated unit with all of this would not only be very expencive but very very large due to isolation of the different pre/digital/power ++ sections. I would not even think of the weight!

So, we are stuck with separate components, as I use too. My point was that an integrated is no less good than separates.

Rolf

chad
01-13-2006, 05:02 AM
Just bought a huge,I mean huge Pioneer SX1250 at a garage sale for $25.00.......Is this a find, or did I waste my money? ......:blink:

A fine piece of vintage gear, fully functional, for less than the price of "dinner for two."

I'd say good find. Sure the esoteric stuff at 100x the price is neato, but you absolutely cannot beat the 'bang for the buck' factor in your wonderful old vintage Pioneer!!!!

Audiobeer
01-13-2006, 06:00 AM
The Pioneer is product of it's time when Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz ond other brands was fighting to build the most hi-powered recievers ever.

I cant remember who was the winner, but it was +300W pc:o:

Rolf

Technics model that ended up being the all time king was the SA-1000! 330 watts per channel!

jim campbell
01-13-2006, 07:34 AM
I dont mean to denigrate the integrated amp in any way,I have had more than a few in my time.I have found over the years that with separates if you have a problem with an amp or pre amp you can just yank it out of the system and substitute a begged,borrowed,stolen,well maybe not stolen, or spare unit and not lose the use of the whole thing.Switching out a few cables to isolate a problem to a particular component is much cheaper than paying your friendly neighborhood tech guy to troubleshoot.I think good cables need not cost a fortune and they can be moved from system to system.Mr widget has some interesting suggestions and if I might add my $0.02 maybe look into the Bryston stuff.They are a good bang for buck amp,built like tanks and that 20 year warranty is nice.If you are buying with real dollars (US)there is a definite advantage.

Audiobeer
01-13-2006, 08:45 AM
I had an integrated MA-6900 Mcintosh amp that lacked nothing other than the cheezy cheap feeling of the adjustment knobs. I also had an Acurus integrated and with either of these examples I never felt I was missing out on anything.

Rolf
01-13-2006, 09:01 AM
I had an integrated MA-6900 Mcintosh amp that lacked nothing other than the cheezy cheap feeling of the adjustment knobs. I also had an Acurus integrated and with either of these examples I never felt I was missing out on anything.

:applaud:

Rolf

jim campbell
01-13-2006, 09:58 AM
Thats the first time that cheezy and Macintosh have ever been used in the same sentence I thinkhttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

Audiobeer
01-13-2006, 02:16 PM
Thats the first time that cheezy and Macintosh have ever been used in the same sentence I thinkhttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif
After spending almost $4k on an amp I didn't expect to feel the thin material on the plastic on the knobs and feel the shaft wobble as I turned it.....believe it or not!! I had no qualms with the sound or power.

jim campbell
01-13-2006, 08:14 PM
jeez! another illusion shattered

Audiobeer
01-13-2006, 09:55 PM
That being said I still miss it! It sure looked pretty at night! :p