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saeman
12-16-2005, 08:06 PM
Here's some pics of my second 4344 cabinet going together. I thought some of you guys might like to see the puzzle pieces going together. I missed the opportunity to get pics on the first cabinet. Thought I'd post these in a separate thread, rather than cluttering up Ian's 4343/4344 thread. If the mods determine that they are better placed in that thread then please move the info there. More when I get them covered with veneer. Rick

saeman
12-16-2005, 08:08 PM
4344 pics-2

saeman
12-16-2005, 08:09 PM
4344 Pics-3

saeman
12-16-2005, 08:13 PM
4344 Pics-4

saeman
12-16-2005, 08:19 PM
4344 Pics-5

jbl4ever
12-16-2005, 08:39 PM
Hi Rick, looks like your using inch and a quarter P.B. Look better than factory
Do you live in Illinois

saeman
12-16-2005, 08:42 PM
No, not 1 1/4", just regular ole 1" with a bunch of braces. I'm just down the road from you in Joliet. Rick

jbl4ever
12-16-2005, 09:32 PM
Thought so we met a couple of years ago. I think you got some 2461 drivers
from me. Send me your phone# P.M.

Uncle Paul
12-17-2005, 09:00 AM
Nice work! What technique did you use to cut out the relief for the horn flange?

Ian Mackenzie
12-17-2005, 10:28 AM
Rick,

Outstanding!

I think you should publish a book about building JBL loudspeaker enclosures.

Ian

toddalin
12-17-2005, 10:55 AM
Nice Work!

I don't understand the need for the center recessed panel on the back though. Wouldn't it have been easier to just leave the back as a solid piece which would also added a nice chunk of interior volume?

saeman
12-17-2005, 12:13 PM
Rick,

Outstanding!

I think you should publish a book about building JBL loudspeaker enclosures.

Ian
Thanx Ian: If you see enough of them, and I'm sure you have, after a while it's not too hard to figure out how they go together. I just make hand drawings of every cabinet I have the opportunity to see and go from there. Regards - Rick

saeman
12-17-2005, 12:27 PM
Nice Work!

I don't understand the need for the center recessed panel on the back though. Wouldn't it have been easier to just leave the back as a solid piece which would also added a nice chunk of interior volume?

Fair Question - Since there are NO x-overs available for the 4344 this project will require a custom built cross over package. I decided to mount all x-over components external to the cabinet interior volume. The recess in the back is where they will mount. Easy access to the x-over components and as I learn about what's good and bad, I can make changes without tearing into the cabinet. At this point I'm not sure where the end is on these speakers. There are many forum members who are quiite savy on various custom x-over options and I'm not one of them. I'm figuring this system will be a test bed and allow me to explore custom x-overs for the first time in my long long history of loving JBL. The factory 4344 is 41 3/8"H x 25"W x 15"D. This cabinet has the same height and width but is 17"D to compensate for the volume lost to the recess, so my internal volume is the same. Thanx for the question.

Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

saeman
12-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Nice work! What technique did you use to cut out the relief for the horn flange?

I use plexi templates and a router to cut all of the baffle holes. After the 4 1/4" horn hole is cut thru the baffle I just layed a larger template over the hole on the back and cut the recess for the flange (1/4" deep). JBL did this on all of their monitors that were built with a 1" P.B. baffle - 4340, 4341, 4343, 4344, that I know of.

jandregg
12-17-2005, 02:25 PM
The horn in front of the flange on the h91 is only .5 inch deep. Is it longer on the horn your using. From the picture it looks like you left 3/4 inch.

John

saeman
12-19-2005, 08:02 AM
The horn in front of the flange on the h91 is only .5 inch deep. Is it longer on the horn your using. From the picture it looks like you left 3/4 inch.

John

Hello John: I'm not sure what kind of H91 you're looking at but 1/2" is less than all that I have seen. The H91,H92, 2307, etc were designed to mount on a 3/4" baffle with no recess (Olympus, Sovereign, 4333's, 4345, 4350, etc.) and when mounted there is usually about 1/16" from the face of the horn to the face of the baffle. That would make the face-flange dimension about 11/16". Mount the same horn in a 1" baffle with no recess and there would be interference with the horn's dispersion. JBL obviously felt this was unsatisfactory or they would not have gone to the trouble to cut the recess. All JBL cabinets that I have seen/measured using a 1" P.B. baffle have the recess cut 1/4" deep with 3/4" material left to support the weight of the horn/driver. Cutting it deeper is a bit risky - hanging a heavy horn/driver on a thin P.B. surface. This problem led to their practice of providing a metal hanger/support bolted between the driver/horn and the cabinet interior (L200, 4345, 4350, others). If anyone has seen something different, please speak up.

Happy Holidays!!!

Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2005, 08:49 AM
You have not told us what your doin for crossovers yet!:hmm:

jandregg
12-20-2005, 05:51 AM
Rick
Thanks for taking the time to explain this. The fact that the horn is not flush with the front of the baffle is a small thing but it has been nagging at me for thirty years. Otherwise I'm very well adjusted.

John

Ian Mackenzie
12-20-2005, 10:49 AM
Giskard,

......Muhaahhaha..That's for sure!

Ian

ngccglp
12-29-2005, 01:22 PM
I use plexi templates and a router to cut all of the baffle holes. After the 4 1/4" horn hole is cut thru the baffle I just layed a larger template over the hole on the back and cut the recess for the flange (1/4" deep). JBL did this on all of their monitors that were built with a 1" P.B. baffle - 4340, 4341, 4343, 4344, that I know of.

Hi, is it poss to post some pictures of the templates and router and how you did it?

Thanks

Tom Loizeaux
01-03-2006, 05:12 PM
Very nice work! Looking at that project makes me think I might want to make a pair myself.
I think you are the guy who could suppy plans to us would-be 4344 builders!

With the right componants and a crossover made for those componants and cabinet, you will have, what many of us consider, the best "classic" JBL full sized speaker.
We're interested in you crossover development.

A wonderful project!

Tom

saeman
01-03-2006, 08:13 PM
Hi Tom: You're certainly welcome to all of my plans. With the exception of my recessed back, the interior is the same volume and bracing is similar. to the factory 4344. I will work on dressing up my hand drawings so that I can get them to anyone interested. X-overs are out of my league and am working with another forum member to get the electronic package built. There are also 4344 plans in Ian's thread and he shows a similar baffle arrangement. If I can help you just let me know. Rick

saeman
01-28-2006, 07:52 PM
I've finally got these babies to the point where they're starting to look like speakers. I finished the veneer work and soaked them with a coat of oil. I'll rub in a few more coats over the next week or so. I finished the grilles today and wanted to see what they looked like. Some pics are attached below for those who have been following the project.

As stated before, components are 4344 regulars with 2235H, 2122H, 2425J and 2405, with the same cabinet height and width, and same internal volume. The grille cloth is a change. I've got plenty of Blue and wanted to try something different. AS far as I can tell the camel color is identical to that used by JBL on systems like the L300 and others. I think it contrasts well with the rosewood.

Next mission is to get the crossovers built and installed. It's been a fun project and I'm looking forward to hear them sing.

Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

saeman
01-28-2006, 08:02 PM
Pics

hapy._.face
01-28-2006, 08:22 PM
They are absolutely beautiful!! very well done. Nice routing, veneer, etc. Very well executed. I'm impressed! Is this the second pair (as you mentioned)? Will you be keeping these or are they being built for a client?? (just curious). Kudos. :applaud:

Charlie4350
01-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Rick,
Outstanding, as usual. Think you've found your calling?
chuck

Mr. Widget
01-28-2006, 11:12 PM
Beautiful!

If you already mentioned this pardon my laziness... I only looked at the pretty pictures.:o:

What are you going to do for the foilcal?


Widget

yggdrasil
01-29-2006, 03:33 AM
Fantastic work Rick. That rosewood is really beautiful. And it really underlines the quality of your work.

saeman
01-29-2006, 06:48 AM
What are you going to do for the foilcal?


Widget

Good Morning Mr. Widget: Foil-Cals and Baffle Badges are becomming a sore spot with me. I have quite a few monitors that are in need of one or both. I have a ton of art work in various stages of completion. I have a friend who is a genious with Photo Shop and Illustrator and he has been helping me with the various badges. I will soon be ready to have these critters made up and on my speakers. They won't be complete without them.

I have a long list which includes all of the popular 43XX moniotors (my mainstay). Considering the tremendous artwork effort and the cost of screens, I intend to make up a BUNCH (as others have also done in the past)to offset these costs. You'll know when they're all done as I'll offer them to all the guys on the forum. There's been a guy in Japan selling grille badges on ebay, but $100+ per pair to my door is too much for me. Hopefully after all costs are figured in, I'll be able to come in at less than half - we'll see. Rick

Robh3606
01-29-2006, 07:23 AM
My they do look nice! Good idea using Photo Shop. I used Paint Shop and was able to get a reasonable lablel up and running. Did it as a single layer that you could print just print. Never fininished it though, decided not to as my level controls were on the back of the cabinet. I can see for silk screening the layer approach would be best. Can't wait to see them you do great work.


Rob:)

norealtalent
01-29-2006, 08:01 AM
Awesome job Rick!!! The camel is sweet against the rosewood. You inspire me to build my own too. Thanks for sharing your expertise and creativity.:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Uncle Paul
01-29-2006, 09:29 AM
Rick,

Beautiful job! The camel grille cloth was an inspired choice. I wouldn't have thought it would work, but seeing is believing. The rosewood you use in your projects always has beautiful figure and tones. Where do you get your veneer?

saeman
01-29-2006, 10:38 AM
The camel grille cloth was an inspired choice. I wouldn't have thought it would work, but seeing is believing. The rosewood you use in your projects always has beautiful figure and tones. Where do you get your veneer?

Hi Uncle Paul - Thanks for your comments. I've always admired the camel grille color but have never owned a system using it. We've all seen camel on the L300's and others. Rosewood and camel were both options when ordering the L250's and B460 but you rarely see them this way. Brown cloth was standard and that's what you usually see on the B460. After saying goodbye to the rosewood 4350B's I needed to get some rosewood back in the house so the choice was easy.

Monitor blue cloth is by far my favorite but I'm having visions of putting these 4344's in the living room (wife's turf) and she's already said the camel looks great. Blue is a guy color and even though I am generally not plagued with the WAF syndrome, putting blue clothed speakers in her living room will likely not fly.

I usually get my veneer from Oakwood Veneer in the Detroit area - call by noon and it will ship that day. www.oakwoodveneer.com (http://www.oakwoodveneer.com) This rosewood came from a local wood work supplier and not Oakwood. Cost was under $3 a square foot and the quality has been real good. Rosewood from Oakwood runs $5 to $7 a square. Their product quality is unbeatable and I generally order from them.

Rick

Mr. Widget
01-29-2006, 11:12 AM
There's been a guy in Japan selling grille badges on ebay, but $100+ per pair to my door is too much for me. Hopefully after all costs are figured in, I'll be able to come in at less than half - we'll see. RickAs someone who has worked with several screen printers... I'd recommend just ordering the ones from Japan... I have had to send back and pay for so many redos, mental frustration, etc. The color will be wrong, then there is dust in the ink, then they screw it up some way you never expected...

$50 for a badge is a bit steep, but if they are quality...


Widget

saeman
01-30-2006, 07:59 PM
Another pic with the components installed.

saeman
01-30-2006, 08:42 PM
As someone who has worked with several screen printers... I'd recommend just ordering the ones from Japan... I have had to send back and pay for so many redos, mental frustration, etc. The color will be wrong, then there is dust in the ink, then they screw it up some way you never expected...

$50 for a badge is a bit steep, but if they are quality...


Widget

Hi Widget: I hear you and also expect to have some initial grief with the silkscreen project. I'm a ways into the effort with a ton of artwork already complete. The screener I have dialed in will make a sample run for me here soon and then I'll know if I can use him or seek another. There's a boatload of screeners in Chicago. I'm confident someone will come thru. I'll keep you posted. Rick

Ian Mackenzie
01-30-2006, 09:45 PM
Very sexy:bouncy:

hapy._.face
01-31-2006, 06:25 AM
riessen,


Again, lovely! I am planning a similar build project and I have a couple of questions:

1. The bracing looks to be 2X4's- Is this correct? Did the original use 1X for bracing? If this is an upgrade in bracing material- will it effect the overall internal volume of the cab to any significant degree?

2. Baffles. In an old thead of pics showing Bo's 4345's- his front baffle looks like plywood. Your front baffle is MDF- yet your rear baffle assembly looks like plywood. I'm confused: Is this a departure from the original (?) or is this just one of the build differences in monitor models??

3. If the rear baffle assembly is in fact plywood- what did you use? Exterior grade or marine grade?

4. The recess routed out for the slots (in the backside of the front baffle) is 1/4" to allow a 1/4" protrusion, correct? Is this protrusion value a standard for slots?

5. What is the space surrounding the slot cut-out? 1/16"? 1/8"? (Can't really tell by the pics...)

6. T-nuts or hurricanes?

7. Were all braces glued on the sides it made contact, or would this be overkill??

8. Were braces screwed from the ends (through the baffles) and countersunk/filled? Is this overkill as well?

I'm sorry to plague you with questions, I just want to do it properly!!! ;)

Thanks so much for any and all replies!!:bouncy:

hapy._.face
01-31-2006, 06:31 AM
Hi Widget: I hear you and also expect to have some initial grief with the silkscreen project. I'm a ways into the effort with a ton of artwork already complete. The screener I have dialed in will make a sample run for me here soon and then I'll know if I can use him or seek another. There's a boatload of screeners in Chicago. I'm confident someone will come thru. I'll keep you posted. Rick

Riessen,

If your silkscreener wants to batch these out to you- I may be interested in purchasing a few pairs if it helps you offset the costs. Let me know via PM and include all associated prices. I would (additionally) like to know the silkscreener you chose should this be successful as I may need other ones done. Thanks!

saeman
01-31-2006, 11:22 AM
[If your silkscreener wants to batch these out to you- I may be interested in purchasing a few pairs if it helps you offset the costs. Let me know via PM and include all associated prices. I would (additionally) like to know the silkscreener you chose should this be successful as I may need other ones done. Thanks!

I have purchased a 4 x 8 sheet of .064 aluminum for the project (grille badges). That will yield near 300 badges. As many as I want for myself I can't even put a dent in that many. I am planning on 10% to 15% waste between the base coat painter and the screener. That still leaves a bunch. I will keep what I want, offer some to forum guys at one price and ebay the balance at another price. I'm not close enough at this point for anyone to get real excited about it.

As soon as I get a quality sample from the screener I will then cut the sheet in to individual badges (several sizes) and have most of them base coated black so they are ready for screening. At that point I'll make a post and determine forum member interest.

saeman
01-31-2006, 12:43 PM
1. The bracing looks to be 2X4's- Is this correct? Did the original use 1X for bracing? If this is an upgrade in bracing material- will it effect the overall internal volume of the cab to any significant degree.
2x4's??? Your eye glass perscription needs to be upgraded!! I used 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" douglas fir. Factory 4344's used 1" x 3" brace material. My bracing takes up a little more volume but I doubt I'll hear any difference. 1x3 is more time consuming and expensive to produce.


2. Baffles. In an old thead of pics showing Bo's 4345's- his front baffle looks like plywood. Your front baffle is MDF- yet your rear baffle assembly looks like plywood. I'm confused: Is this a departure from the original (?) or is this just one of the build differences in monitor models??
On their Pro Monitor line (43XX Series) JBL used varying materials and thicknesses for their baffles and cabinet backs.

4331A/B, 4333A/B, 4345, 4350, 4350B and 4355 used 3/4" baltic birch for the baffle. 4340, 4341, 4343 and 4344 used 1" P.B. (not MDF) for the baffle.

4331A/B, 4333A/B, 4350 and 4350B used 3/4"baltic birch for their backs. 1" P.B. was used for the back on the 4340, 4341, 4343, 4344, 4345 and 4355.


3. If the rear baffle assembly is in fact plywood- what did you use? Exterior grade or marine grade? ??
The back on my 4344's is 3/4" baltic birch with 1/4" textured plastic/luan laminated to it for a 1" thich rear panel.


4. The recess routed out for the slots (in the backside of the front baffle) is 1/4" to allow a 1/4" protrusion, correct? Is this protrusion value a standard for slots?
No recess cut in the rear of the baffle for the 2405. If you see it protruding then the baffle is 3/4" thick. If it's flush then the baffle is 1" thick.

All monitors built with 1" baffles had a recess cut from the rear to bring the front edge of the horn (2307, 2311) flush with the baffle face.


5. What is the space surrounding the slot cut-out? 1/16"? 1/8"? (Can't really tell by the pics...)
No space around the slot. The cutout hole varies from 3 3/16" diameter to 3 1/4". I cut a very slight chamfer around the front edge of the cutout, which in the pics make the hole look larger - it's not.


6. T-nuts or hurricanes?
JBL used T-Nuts everywhere


7. Were all braces glued on the sides it made contact, or would this be overkill??
All braces were glued and screwed to their respective panels - by JBL and me. Braces were installed on the panels before cabinet assembly. To allow easy assembly the braces were commonly cut a bit short in length so as not to jamb between the baffle and back during assembly. If you look inside a vintage monitor you will commonly see places where thin wedges were driven in between the baffle and brace end and/or the back and brace end, with glue. This practice stiffened every thing up. Over time and lots of heavy rockin and rollin these wedges are known to come loose and float around inside the cabinet.


8. Were braces screwed from the ends (through the baffles) and countersunk/filled? Is this overkill as well?
On the very early monitors that I have seen (4340, 4341, 4350), JBL screwed thru the baffle and back panels into the braces. This practice was dropped shortly into production. They simply used a countersunk flat head phillips head screw, flush with the panel and left showing. To my knowledge they never spent any time trying to hide any of the screws with plugs sanded flush.

That's all I know - Rick

hapy._.face
01-31-2006, 05:00 PM
2x4's??? Your eye glass perscription needs to be upgraded!!
Lol. Perhaps I was mesmerized by those pics! Well, in my defense- milled 2X4’s end up measuring about 1˝ X 3˝ - So I wasn’t that far off…

I used 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" douglas fir. Factory 4344's used 1" x 3" brace material. My bracing takes up a little more volume but I doubt I'll hear any difference. 1x3 is more time consuming and expensive to produce.
Agreed- 1X3’s suck. Seems like a flimsy width for driving screws into anyways. I’ll do what you did!! :)

On their Pro Monitor line (43XX Series) JBL used varying materials and thicknesses for their baffles and cabinet backs.
4331A/B, 4333A/B, 4345, 4350, 4350B and 4355 used 3/4" baltic birch for the baffle. 4340, 4341, 4343 and 4344 used 1" P.B. (not MDF) for the baffle.
4331A/B, 4333A/B, 4350 and 4350B used 3/4"baltic birch for their backs. 1" P.B. was used for the back on the 4340, 4341, 4343, 4344, 4345 and 4355.
Got it. Thanks! Oops- MDF wasn’t even around yet. My bad.

The back on my 4344's is 3/4" baltic birch with 1/4" textured plastic/luan laminated to it for a 1" thich rear panel.
Cool. Thanks.

No recess cut in the rear of the baffle for the 2405. If you see it protruding then the baffle is 3/4" thick. If it's flush then the baffle is 1" thick.
All monitors built with 1" baffles had a recess cut from the rear to bring the front edge of the horn (2307, 2311) flush with the baffle face.
OK. Thanks.

No space around the slot. The cutout hole varies from 3 3/16" diameter to 3 1/4". I cut a very slight chamfer around the front edge of the cutout, which in the pics make the hole look larger - it's not.
Ahhh. That’s it. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/scratchchin.gif (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=47#) Got it. Thanks!

JBL used T-Nuts everywhere
I prefer hurricanes. Then again, T-nuts weren’t exactly a big problem for older JBL’s; Why not stick with what works….

All braces were glued and screwed to their respective panels - by JBL and me. Braces were installed on the panels before cabinet assembly. To allow easy assembly the braces were commonly cut a bit short in length so as not to jamb between the baffle and back during assembly. If you look inside a vintage monitor you will commonly see places where thin wedges were driven in between the baffle and brace end and/or the back and brace end, with glue. This practice stiffened every thing up. Over time and lots of heavy rockin and rollin these wedges are known to come loose and float around inside the cabinet.
That’s a great thing to know; and a cool trick! Thank you!! http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/thumbup.gif (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=47#)

On the very early monitors that I have seen (4340, 4341, 4350), JBL screwed thru the baffle and back panels into the braces. This practice was dropped shortly into production. They simply used a countersunk flat head phillips head screw, flush with the panel and left showing. To my knowledge they never spent any time trying to hide any of the screws with plugs sanded flush.

So long as a screw was used there. I was thinking it had to be. I just never saw any heads (except for maybe two- one left, and one right inside the baffle edge). I’ll do the same.

That's all I know – Rick

I hardly doubt that! ;)








You've certainly helped me out- and maybe it helps others. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I can only hope my project turns out half as nice as yours!



Regards- Mike.