JBL Speaker List - draft!

[remusr]

I created a list of systems, speaker drivers, horns & xovers last night to try to clear up my confusion reading all these threads while looking for advice on my purchase/build of L300's. I kinda like spreadsheets and I think this might be useful as a good reference "database" summary. More scope and sheets could be added by me as I learn. If you like, or if this duplicates an existing similar edit-able tool, pls comment and/or revise pls!

Ohoh - I can't figure out how to attach the s/s (anyone help?)
- Roy

[4313B]

You mean like these?

I'm sure alot of people have alot of them but post what you have anyway. :thmbsup:

[mikebake]

Ohoh - I can't figure out how to attach the s/s (anyone help?)
- Roy
I think Giskard has done that for you...........

[johnaec]

Hey Giskard - 'any chance of getting those tables in spreadsheet form, or at least the last one in a little higher resolution? 'Anything I could do in return?

John

[remusr]

Thx there - lots of info in your sheets and I expected I would not be the first. But mine is a bit different in that it is a cross-reference and it is editable - not an image file - so you can update it, extract from it and build on it.
**I have attached it as an Excel S/S but renamed with ".doc" extension. So if you save it and rename it to ".xls" extension you can open it in Excel.

[4313B]

Hey Giskard - 'any chance of getting those tables in spreadsheet form, or at least the last one in a little higher resolution? 'Anything I could do in return?

JohnThey are images of Excel spreadsheets (converted over from Quattro Pro spreadsheets from the very early 90's). I simply pasted them into Paint Shop Pro for ease of posting. They'll end up in the Technical Reference section at some point.

**I have attached it as an Excel S/S but renamed with ".doc" extension. So if you save it and rename it to ".xls" extension you can open it in Excel.I looked at it briefly. Several errors but you've got the idea. For the Pro info you can look here:

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Systems%20Ref%20Charts.html


BTW - I'm still looking for a DBA who can build us a relational database for the site.

[LE15-Thumper]

In the 004 system there is a 4 before the D123, what does this denote ?
I noticed a 2 or 4 in this column on other systems.

Thanks

[4313B]

In the 004 system there is a 4 before the D123, what does this denote ?
I noticed a 2 or 4 in this column on other systems.

Thankshttp://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1957/page8.jpg

[LE15-Thumper]

OK, Thanks

[Phil H]

Giskard,

Those are nice lists. I was curious about the notes on the first list. Are you working toward a complete list of enclosures for each system, or are they what you know from your personal experience? I ask because I noticed that a number of cabinets aren't listed that can be found in the literature on this site. Here is a link to one I know http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1967/chart.jpg

I too started making a similar list. I just did it to help me learn what's what.

Roy,
I down-loaded your list but I need to install Excel on my computer (I've used Lotus 123 since DOS days). Probably next week, I'll install Office. I look forward to seeing your list.

[4313B]

Giskard,

Those are nice lists. I was curious about the notes on the first list. Are you working toward a complete list of enclosures for each system, or are they what you know from your personal experience? I ask because I noticed that a number of cabinets aren't listed that can be found in the literature on this site.The various spreadsheets have different info depending on who at JBL did them. Some info is missing. Some info was incorrect and I corrected it. I have always meant to consolidate the various lists but haven't been too fired up to do so because it really requires a relational database as opposed to spreadsheets. Besides, I know all the information so it isn't really a chore to look it up. I know where it all is. I'll get to it eventually and ask Techbot to deal with it accordingly.

[remusr]

Giskard & Phil,

thx for the link and kind comments, I will work on my Excel list using your pdf's and the link info.
*I never did learn databases but may try yet! As an O&G engineer I always was able to get by with 123 or XL....
Later, Roy

[remusr]

Here is an update to my Excel Spreadsheet including Giskard's referenced info on crossovers, some driver corrections and more systems. I did not include smaller systems with 8" woofers as I prefer the big guys. The pink cells are where I have no info...so if you got it tell me!
The S/S is attached with a ".doc" extension as I cannot attach it properly. So you gotta save it, rename it with an ".xls" extension and you can then open it in Excel. Pls advise if anyone wants more info!
- Roy

[4313B]

You might want to include driver Q along with your Fs, and Vas specs.

You might want to look this over too:

http://www.drewdaniels.com/JBL_PARM.XLS

Everyone here should know who Drew is. I met Joe Etrick many years ago when he worked for Barath Acoustics in Denver.


If you can wait for me to consolidate my spreadsheets you can look over the information then. I'm pretty busy with other things right now so it could be awhile. There are 48 different spreadsheets and I think a different person at JBL did each one so none of them are standardized. :p I've already gone to a ton of trouble proofreading/correcting their work and rearranging various columns and rows. It's a significant amount of work.

This is preliminary to the Technical Documentation Project - Public Forum (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=46).

I really need a DBA for web enabled relational databases to step forward. If no one does then we might have to hire it done and that means everyone will have to pony up some cash. :D

[hapy._.face]

I started putting drivers (only) in an excel spreadsheet so that I could ref certain values. The categories were:
Type (15", compression, etc)
Model
PwrCap (watts)
Imp
Freq (range)
Sens
Fs
:blah:



Then it occurred to me that this is a waste of time (redundant) if others are doing it, too. "Why not consolidate all of the information into one unified database," I thought.

The concern for what program to use came up. I have determined File Maker Pro (version 5 or better) would be suitable. It is Mac/pc stable. FMPro is manipulative in ways you cannot imagine. Plus- the info can be exported to Excel or just about any other program (with limited features, of course).


Say I had a subwoofer and wanted to build a 4way around it. I can sort the drivers by freq response, or impedance, or whatever value I wanted until I found suitable candidates for my project. FMPro will sort it in descending/ascending order or whatever you can dream up.



Another database can keep track of "systems" (for example). A link from my driver of choice (2235H, for example) will put me in the 'systems' sub database where I can read the specs of the systems that utilized a 2235H as a stock component (4350 for example). You get the idea...we could just link to pages already scanned in the library for decreased data entry.



Huge task, I know. But it could be chipped away at over time until complete.

[Titanium Dome]

FileMaker Pro is an excellent suggestion. We're using FM Pro 8.0 and FM 8.0 Server at work, and it is sweet. However, we had to get a FM software solutions guy to build what we needed. Thankfully, he was willing to do some work pro bono since we are a nonprofit organization.

Our FM 8.0 Server runs on an Apple XServe G5, but our clients are split about 50/50 between Mac and Windows. We've got four sites that have to log in to the system and utilize the server from remote locations. Works like a charm.

Once up and running, it's rock solid, and it's almost idiot proof from the end user point of view.

[4313B]

Huge task, I know. But it could be chipped away at over time until complete.It is an enormous task. I already have all the documented system lists. I don't have Filemaker Pro anymore so that negates it's use. Don has already suggested a certain software package and it will require me learning how to use it. I'm still waiting to see if the whole thing is even feasible. Should know by the end of March. I'll open that thread after we find out.

[JBLnsince1959]

It is an enormous task. I already have all the documented system lists. I don't have Filemaker Pro anymore so that negates it's use. Don has already suggested a certain software package and it will require me learning how to use it. I'm still waiting to see if the whole thing is even feasible. Should know by the end of March. I'll open that thread after we find out.

Early this year I PM'ed you offering help ( it is what I do for a living). Offer still stands ( altho my time is limited as I own my own company), however, I will not interfere or get in way....

What was the package Don mentioned?

I'll throw in my two cents here. Everyone seems to be focusing on the WORK ( data entry etc) and Software. That is really step 3 and 2 respectively. First thing is to clearly define EXACTLY ( PLAN,PLAN,PLAN ) what you want this puppy to do, what information it is to hold and how the user is to get to it.

Once this is done then only put in enough information for 3 or 4 systems and TEST,TEST, TEST, TEST, TEST. Once that's done then only the grunt work of data entry remains ..... This would be really fun and simple as projects go...nuff said....

[hapy._.face]

:( Too bad about the FMpro going bye bye. It rocks.

Of course, all of that capability is overkill for a list of drivers and/or systems! Being able to sort various parameters from those drivers/systems, and it's overall stability/versatility mades it the obvious first choice. But if it's out- it's out.

I guess the biggest issue would be the data entry, huh? :shock: :spchless: :shock: :spchless: :shock:
Talk about burn out!

I can't imagine the task of sorting through years' worth of varying standardization and all the typos. wow. The old saying 'If you're gonna do it-do it right' definately applies here.

Another suggestion: It could be launched (intitially) by first entering the most basic elements (driver model#s/system model#s, for example) just to get a working architecture. Then (as time permits) adding/focusing one list of values at a time by decending importance: Dimensions, wattage, impedence, freq range, etc until you get down to the small details. All of this vs waiting until it's totally complete- as it might be more of an evolution of data.:p

Let me know if I can be of any help in this project, as I believe in it 100%.

EDIT: '59- You jumped in with your post as I was typing mine and it echoes what I was thinking. So, "Yeah" ditto what you said!! Getting the platform functioning first is paramount. ;)
Giskard- Name your position. We are here if you need us- we'll shut up if you don't. No sense in taking all of the work on yourself- but I gather you are a tortured soul anyways :p . I fully understand.

[JBLnsince1959]

First thing is to clearly define EXACTLY ( PLAN,PLAN,PLAN ) what you want this puppy to do, ....


I'll be more clear and then have to get to work ( been putting 7 days a week for 3 months)....

What is the Mission Statement for this database........ ( leave out details about software, data entry...only what it is to do for the user..but be very exact on that. That is our first step.....


would[/b] be the data entry, huh? :shock: :spchless: :shock: :spchless: :shock:
Talk about burn out!

I can't imagine the task of sorting through years' worth of varying standardization and all the typos. wow. The old saying 'If you're gonna do it-do it right' definately applies here.



When climbing mountains never look all the way to the top but only at your next step ( keeps the mind focused and calm)

what is our mission statement...what is this to do for the user..that's the only thing we should be thinking about

[norealtalent]

Partial...

I really need a DBA for web enabled relational databases to step forward. If no one does then we might have to hire it done and that means everyone will have to pony up some cash. :D

Did you find what we needed here or should I start a matching funds challenge in the market palce? I'll "pony up" as needed on this project and think I can count on a few others too. If there is something we can do to help please ask. "We do not, because we know not." :bouncy:

[norealtalent]

Partial...
what is our mission statement...what is this to do for the user..that's the only thing we should be thinking about

Make eggs, toast and coffee!!!:applaud: :D :applaud:

[JBLnsince1959]

Make eggs, toast and coffee!!!:applaud: :D :applaud:

:jawdrop:

:hmm:

Try again.....

:rotfl:

[4313B]

What needs to happen is Don and I have to get with John and see if we can do this from a technical perspective and if John is willing and able to assist on the backend. Don has been absent from the forum for quite awhile now and the reason will be revealed soon enough. He has been exceedingly busy.

Once we are ready to move on this I really hope you guys are still willing and able. The first post in the Technical Documentation thread will signal the beginning.

[hapy._.face]

Make eggs, toast and coffee!!!:applaud: :D :applaud:

Ohh Ohh- :wave: Can we get bacon too? Gotta get my nitrates in for the day...

Seriously. bacon. for real. no joke. serious as a heart attack.

[hapy._.face]

You got it Giskard! I'm in when the time comes.

[JBLnsince1959]

What needs to happen is Don and I have to get with John and see if we can do this from a technical perspective and if John is willing and able to assist on the backend. Don has been absent from the forum for quite awhile now and the reason will be revealed soon enough. He has been exceedingly busy.

Once we are ready to move on this I really hope you guys are still willing and able. The first post in the Technical Documentation thread will signal the beginning.

10-4.....and until that time maybe map out exactly what you want it to do......I've spent months with people working on a "workable" mission statement.

I'll offer whatever help I can...PM me if you need help. Since It's been pretty much you're idea and you have more info in that brain of yours than any of us then most of this will flow thru you.

good luck and let me know if I can help....

[JBLnsince1959]

Ohh Ohh- :wave: Can we get bacon too? Gotta get my nitrates in for the day...

Seriously. bacon. for real. no joke. serious as a heart attack.

That'll cost extra.....bacon was not in the original design or mentioned in the mission statement.

[JuniorJBL]

You might want to include driver Q along with your Fs, and Vas specs.

You might want to look this over too:

http://www.drewdaniels.com/JBL_PARM.XLS

Everyone here should know who Drew is. I met Joe Etrick many years ago when he worked for Barath Acoustics in Denver.


If you can wait for me to consolidate my spreadsheets you can look over the information then. I'm pretty busy with other things right now so it could be awhile. There are 48 different spreadsheets and I think a different person at JBL did each one so none of them are standardized. :p I've already gone to a ton of trouble proofreading/correcting their work and rearranging various columns and rows. It's a significant amount of work.

This is preliminary to the Technical Documentation Project - Public Forum (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=46).

I really need a DBA for web enabled relational databases to step forward. If no one does then we might have to hire it done and that means everyone will have to pony up some cash. :D

I do know some DB people and I will present it to them in the next few weeks.
PM me so we can work out the specifics.

Edit: I missed the whole 2nd page of this thread. If '59 can help that would be good as well. as always I will help in any manner that will make a difference.

Side note: I may be able to host the database if John can not do it. There would be some "things" to workout, but.... just some pre thoughts.....;)

[norealtalent]

Partial...
Once we are ready to move on this I really hope you guys are still willing and able. The first post in the Technical Documentation thread will signal the beginning.

I'll be here for the long haul. I needed a couple coffins for me and the wife. Why do you think I bought those Westlakes?:bouncy:

[hapy._.face]

I look forward to the day when newbies ask about a driver or system and we will lovingly refer them to "the list" or "the chart" or "the boneyard" or "the whatever". The only down side to this database is that we will all have slightly less to talk about.

[JBLnsince1959]

I do know some DB people and I will present it to them in the next few weeks.
PM me so we can work out the specifics.

Edit: I missed the whole 2nd page of this thread. If '59 can help that would be good as well. as always I will help in any manner that will make a difference.

Side note: I may be able to host the database if John can not do it. There would be some "things" to workout, but.... just some pre thoughts.....;)

we may need all the people we can get...Keep your friends in your "back pocket" incase we need their talents...

I find the offer about hosting the database interesting...PM me exactly what you can offer as I'm not familiar with what you can do and have( also your friends). Can you write Web pages?

Do you have your own server? if so that would be great, as it may help in two ways:
1. continued hosting ( if needed)
2. Hosting for alpha and beta testing - this could speed up the process if Don or John are at times busy and unable to do much...

at this point, everything is still in the air, in fact I'm not sure exactly what Giskard is envisioning here or what he wants( this is his baby)....we will need more details..however, even if Don and John are busy for now,there is no reason why we cann't be planning and designing the data entry programs, data structures, and what is to be included in the databases......

[JBLnsince1959]

I look forward to the day when newbies ask about a driver or system and we will lovingly refer them to "the list" or "the chart" or "the boneyard" or "the whatever". The only down side to this database is that we will all have slightly less to talk about.

I agree with the "List", I'll disagree with "less to talk about", people will always want to ask about what they've read. One thing I've learned over the years, is that you can advertise something and say very BOLDLY - this is Red!!!!!!!! and everyone will call and say...."is this Red?" ( sigh) really..that's what happens

one thing I'll like to say... it's NOT likely that FM Pro would be up to doing the job. Last I looked it was a very simple database ( call flat-file) program and most likely not what we'll need. If I understand Giskard here we'll need a relational database..again will need more detail from Giskard as to what he envisions....

For now everythings on the table, the ONLY use I can see for FMPro is doing some very simply data entry with export abilites...but that would be very conditional...also..Excel is a spreadsheet and not a database, so it's most likely out

well, time for me to step into the background on this for now...it's in Giskards hands....

[Steelyfan]

Contrarily to what many forum members think the data entry does NOT have to be a nightmare, data can be imported from (Word), Excel, and others "quite easily" . I volunteer to help with this, and with the streamlining. In fact, a table in Access looks quite the same as a sheet in Excel.

I think (fwiw!) I would break up the project in 3 main tasks :
-design and decide ; the outlines and technical stuff and requirements
-import, entry and verification of data
-publication of it on the website

About asking external help , maybe some of the forum members' children are in high school studying Information Technology .... ? This would be an ideal study project for them ? I will ask some free advice to a friend as well.

I have used (as a kind of super-user) MS Access (together with SQL server) daily in my job for 5 and a half years, and made some databases in Access for personal use, (but not web published).

Kind regards, KRIS

[JBLnsince1959]

Contrarily to what many forum members think the data entry does NOT have to be a nightmare,

I agree..



I think (fwiw!) I would break up the project in 3 main tasks :
-design and decide ; the outlines and technical stuff and requirements
-import, entry and verification of data
-publication of it on the website



That's the yellow brick road I'm leading them on...

thanks for the input Kris.......

[sajt]

that's godd :applaud:

and ALTECs?? :banghead:

[Steelyfan]

Here are a few screensnaps from my humble music database (under construction)
-the first is a table view of the media items (currently old cassettes)
I could have even included pictures of the album cover.
-the second shows a small example of the value of a database , how you can retrieve media info per artist.

replace "media" by "enclosures" , and "artist" by "driver" (or vice-versa, or whatever) and you have a start for T.L.H.S.L. :blink:

[shaansloan]

You mean like these?

I'm sure alot of people have alot of them but post what you have anyway. :thmbsup:

Hey 4313b....where did you get this chart of drivers you posted back in Dec 2005....can you attach the excel file or word doc....

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8275&page=3

Thanks,
Shaan

[jbl-ahhh]

Does anyone know of a chart that pairs up the JBL home speakers with the "matching" studio monitors? For example, L100 is the home version of the 4310 (I think). It would be fun to have that info at hand. Then I could answer questions like: Is the L112 the home version of my 4411s?

If the info exists in crude form I'd be willing to enter it into a spreadsheet and post it. I found the really great "1970 - 1999 Home Speaker List" that Giskard did. Maybe one additional column on that chart would do it. :cheers:

[Robh3606]

From what I can remember. Also on many there may be crossover differences.

C50SM S7

4301 L19

4310 early L100

4311 Late L100

4331 L200B

4333 L300

4401 L15

4406 L20T/20T3

4408 L60T

4410 L80/T3

4412 Different Woofer in L100T/T3

4425 Different Woofer in L200T3

Rob:)

[martin_wu99]

Just found it,great job:applaud: