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Guido
11-17-2005, 04:25 PM
:wtf: is this? Looks like one of these 70s japanese 6 way speakers.

jblnut
11-17-2005, 06:42 PM
:wtf: is this? Looks like one of these 70s japanese 6 way speakers.

The top tweeter is a mylar dome unit that operates *above* 20khz ?!?!

Are we making sure the rodents in the house can hear the proper overtones in a cymbal ?

jblnut

mikebake
11-17-2005, 06:49 PM
:wtf: is this? Looks like one of these 70s japanese 6 way speakers.

Sorry, those don't look bad to me and I'd guess that series would make a decent sounding mid-level HT system.

Guido
11-18-2005, 04:47 AM
For me they are just ugly :o:

clmrt
11-18-2005, 07:17 AM
Fugly.

Titanium Dome
11-18-2005, 10:34 AM
Fugly.

Fugly they may be, but given a chance I'd still listen to them to see what discernible effect that extra driver might have.

I know there's a sense among some members that current JBL stuff is crap or mostly crap, especially compared to the classic designs of the past. I'm not one of those members, though I love the old stuff, too.

JBL/Harman has some of the brightest engineers and designers anywhere working on speaker design and development. They work in a world-class facility. Some of them have a legacy track record that exceeds anything that virtually any other speaker designer has done.

So while I'll concede that any product, JBL included, could be crap, more focused on marketing pressures than audio necessity, I can't verify that until I hear it. I just might learn something I didn't anticipate.

AND...

People who take the time to get to know me usually find I'm not the piece of crap they thought I was. :p

Velociraptor84
11-19-2005, 10:13 AM
So are you guys saying that my JBL S26 speakers suck compaired the old JBL speakers? Since my speakers weren't cheap you know.

Velociraptor84
11-19-2005, 10:16 AM
Technicaly the Studio L Series is a set up on the orginal Studio Series so if you guys say that the current speaker line is bad then you guys are saying that my JBL S26 sucks too since it's not old as the L100 or so.

johnaec
11-19-2005, 10:32 AM
Velociraptor - I believe the only way you can come to any valid conclusions is if you find someone with some of these different "older" speakers and judge for yourself. While I have no doubt the S26 probably sounds substantially better than many other speakers in the same price range, most people here are happy enough with their current speakers that they haven't felt the need to compare them with something like the S26.

I don't know who on the forum might be in your area, but you really need to get out and hear some other JBL's. Anyone's speakers are going to sound "best" to them if they haven't heard anything else...

John

Zilch
11-19-2005, 10:48 AM
Technicaly the Studio L Series is a set up on the orginal Studio Series so if you guys say that the current speaker line is bad then you guys are saying that my JBL S26 sucks too since it's not old as the L100 or so.No, it's L100's that suck, actually.... :p

[I recall it was YOU who said your S26's suck....]

Rusnzha
11-19-2005, 01:10 PM
Originally written by Titanium Dome


I know there's a sense among some members that current JBL stuff is crap or mostly crap, especially compared to the classic designs of the past. I'm not one of those members, though I love the old stuff, too.



Originally written by Velociraptor


So are you guys saying that my JBL S26 speakers suck compaired the old JBL speakers? Since my speakers weren't cheap you know.


Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and it stinks. :moon: Velociraptor, you have a marvelous gift for interpretation! :confused:

Titanium Dome
11-19-2005, 02:08 PM
Originally written by Titanium Dome





Originally written by Velociraptor




Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and it stinks. :moon: Velociraptor, you have a marvelous gift for interpretation! :confused:


I wipe mine. How about you? :blink:

Velociraptor84
11-19-2005, 02:14 PM
I talked to JBL tech support alot and they do say that the Studio L Series are really alike to the orginal Studio Series since the components are really alike like example the Polyplas woofers and pure titanium dome tweeters with EOS waveguide so forth. Just the biggest difference is that the Studio L Series have that horn on the top that makes the highs go higher then 20kHz. But they did say that both series sound very alike so that's good. I sure glad that I got the S26 instead of the N26 or N38 or something like that LOL. Since my S26 are very close to the JBL L830 only difference as I said before was that the L830 has that horn that makes the speakers go higher than 20kHz.

edgewound
11-19-2005, 02:35 PM
This is NOT aimed at the forumites outside the US or non-native english langauge members. I think there should be an english and grammer/punctuation test before being allowed to post. I'm soooo tired of wasting my time trying to decipher alot of these writings. I'm sure I'm not alone in my opinion. ALL forums are written communications....please take the time to learn how to write. Unfortunately....this is a byproduct of the computer age.

Thanks for reading my vent.

Rusnzha
11-19-2005, 06:18 PM
Originally written by Titanium Dome

I wipe mine. How about you?

Yes, sometimes the paperwork is a killer!

The opinion I'm refering to is the
sense among some members that current JBL stuff is crap or mostly crap. I love my Studio Series 6.1 setup and the old stuff. :cheers:

Mr. Widget
11-19-2005, 07:23 PM
There are many examples of old JBLs that suck and new ones that suck... what's the point. Listen and decide...


:wtf: is this? Looks like one of these 70s japanese 6 way speakers.
I don't have a clue why anyone would buy a speaker that looked like that much less design one... if it doesn't sound down right amazing Harman is just creating more landfill.
I really wish they would quit creating crap like that... it brings down the whole line.

Widget

Don C
11-19-2005, 09:14 PM
I think that the marketing department got what they wanted on this one. But I'm over being annoyed, if the supertweeter does not help much, at least it probably doesn't hurt much either. And the idea of having thin speakers to hang on the wall near a flat TV is just good marketing. I was in Costco last weekend, the flat TV's are selling like crazy right now. So Go JBL! Let them make some money. There's still the Perfomance and Array series for us faithful JBL fans.

Mr. Widget
11-19-2005, 09:32 PM
I think that the marketing department got what they wanted on this one. But I'm over being annoyed, if the supertweeter does not help much, at least it probably doesn't hurt much either.
Very true on all three points!


So Go JBL! Let them make some money. There's still the Perfomance and Array series for us faithful JBL fans.
The problem here is that junk with the JBL logo on it tarnishes the brand. In the old days (pre Radiance Series) JBL was available at several price points. Each was really a quality item at it's price point. These days, the buyer must know what they're doing... you can't just recommend that a friend buy anything with JBL on it. They are selling some outstanding speakers and then they are also sell some that are milking the good name that JBL has built... that is an excellent way to ruin the brand. This type of win for marketing will make it that much less likely that the Array Series will be a success. I haven't heard the Array Series yet, but due to the continual dilution of the JBL brand, it will most likely be difficult to find them at any decent stereo shops.

I wish JBL would stick to making their money in car stereo, and give up the "Cheap and Dirty" market... but with the bean counters in control, they can quickly show you how Walmart makes more profit than Macy's. As a life long JBL fan, I wish they had come out with a JBL Lite, instead of Revel... true to the American business mind set they have maximized immediate quarterly profits at the expense of a long term outlook.
Obviously the business brains at Harman, are right in synch with the Right.

Widget

Velociraptor84
11-19-2005, 11:53 PM
So speakers like the JBL Studio Series aren't good? Are you guys saying that unless the super tweeter works it sucks on the Studio L Series since if you guys are saying the Studio L Series will suck if the super tweeter doesn't work then you guys are saying that the orginal Studio Series suck??? Since they don't have the super tweeters?:blink: Since if you guys say that the Studio Series suck them that means my JBL S26 sucks too since it doesn't have the super tweeters.

trueview
11-20-2005, 12:00 AM
So speakers like the JBL Studio Series aren't good? Are you guys saying that unless the super tweeter works it sucks on the Studio L Series since if you guys are saying the Studio L Series will suck if the super tweeter doesn't work then you guys are saying that the orginal Studio Series suck??? Since they don't have the super tweeters?:blink: Since if you guys say that the Studio Series suck them that means my JBL S26 sucks too since it doesn't have the super tweeters.

yep....I think thats what they're sayin...
now go smoke some more crack!

Don C
11-20-2005, 12:25 AM
I liked the S-38s. But these have traded the eight inch woofer, which I thought was just right, for a smaller woofer and a marketing gimmick supertweeter. Wrong tradeoff for me. I shouldn't be griping though, I haven't even heard them yet.

Mr. Widget
11-20-2005, 12:30 AM
To be clear, I never said that the L-820 or any other particular model was bad or junk. I have never heard the L-820. What I did say was that it had better be good to merit looking so cheesy.

I also suggested that JBL has stuck their logo on some pieces that really don't merit it.
Of course I personally think that most of these budget models are junk, but that is just my opinion, if you like them, great! Enjoy them.

Widget

edgewound
11-20-2005, 12:31 AM
I also suggested that JBL has stuck their logo on some pieces that really don't merit it.
Of course I personally think that most of these things are junk, but that is just my opinion, if you like them, great! Enjoy them.

Widget

Nobody can argue with that...JBL...are you listening?

Titanium Dome
11-20-2005, 12:49 AM
Here's my question: Has anyone heard these speakers yet?

I'm not reading any explicit claims that anyone has done so. Then why the rush to judgment? To quote Shrek: "They judge me before they even know me."

So, if you don't like the way they look, then that's personal preference, and it's fine as far as it can take you. But if you don't like the way they sound or don't think you like the way they sound, even 'though you've never heard them, then :wtf: is that?

EDIT: I just saw the posts directly above. Thanks for acknowledging that hearing is important. ;)

If you hear them and then decide you don't like the sound, cool. But to brand them junk is premature in my wiped, clean, and washed asshole's opinion.

The MSRP on that speaker is $750. It's not a $200 economy model. Okay, so it's got the world's smallest Bi-Radial horn :p , but it's also got a pure Ti dome in an EOS Waveguide; the 4" and 6" PolyPlas drivers have rubber surrounds and Heatscape Motors; the 6" driver features Symmetirccal Field Geometry, a Kapton voice coil and a shorting ring. There's an Iso-Power baffle and SSP network, too.

Yes, these are all JBL buzzwords--marketspeak--derived from true JBL innovations, many of which debuted on pro products and took up residence in the Performance Series.

We're all JBL partisans of one stripe or another. It's just hard to understand why we badmouth a new product and predict its contribution to the decline of the brand before we've even heard it.

Zilch
11-20-2005, 01:06 AM
I reiterate: Thus far, nobody but Velociraptor has said that anything sucks.

The consensus DOES seem to be that Studio L-820 LOOKS like it sucks, is all, in the context of what we normally deal with here.

Let's all go to Circuit City or Best Buy and audition them.

Perhaps they sound great and come with a grille? :p

See '60's L54 "Trimline" for the even thinner (1/8") Lansing Heritage version....

Mr. Widget
11-20-2005, 01:20 AM
Perhaps they sound great and come with a grille? :p

Good point... I do see grille pegs. Maybe they come in real wood veneer as other brands do at this price point and do look OK with the grille on.:)
For JBL's sake, I do hope they do sound good!!!


Widget

Phil H
11-20-2005, 03:11 AM
Good point... I do see grille pegs. Maybe they come in real wood veneer as other brands do at this price point and do look OK with the grille on.http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif
For JBL's sake, I do hope they do sound good!!!


Widget
I looked at JBL's website. And, "the L820 is available with an attractive Black Ash, Beech or Cherry finish." I imagine this means faux veneer. They are marketing it as a satellite speaker. I couldn't find any mention of a grille but I did see this picture.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/images/SLS_lifestyle.jpg


Even with a different finish, I still think they are ugly without a grille. This next picture is from http://www.harmanaudio.com/
http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/products/L820CH.jpg

Zilch,
I don't think Velociraptor84 is the only person to say something sucks. I believe you said the L100's suckhttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Titanium Dome
11-20-2005, 08:12 AM
Some folks think these look like they'd suck, so they have to listen to them with the grilles on. :rotfl:

I assure you they don't suck, but they do cost twice as much as the speaker in question.

spkrman57
11-20-2005, 08:29 AM
Some folks think these look like they'd suck, so they have to listen to them with the grilles on. http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rotfl.gif

I assure you they don't suck, but they do cost twice as much as the speaker in question.

And what cost are we looking at?

Ron

Velociraptor84
11-20-2005, 09:41 AM
No I didn't say that the Studio Series sucked I only said was are you guys saying that is sucks. I do love how my JBL S26 sounds they sound soo clear and precise to me. There the best speakers I ever owned.:) Anyways the biggest reason that the Performance Series costed alot of money is that all of the drivers are using Neodymium magnets since those cost alot more money than ferrite magnets that's for sure.

Zilch
11-20-2005, 10:29 AM
Zilch,
I don't think Velociraptor84 is the only person to say something sucks. I believe you said the L100's suckhttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gifOh, Hell, you're RIGHT!

Well, that's a GIVEN.... ;)


I do love how my JBL S26 sounds they sound soo clear and precise to me.WAIT! I thought that was your Edirols.... :p

Mr. Widget
11-20-2005, 10:32 AM
Doesn't that sound like something you'd hear about on TV followed by "...ask your doctor."?


Widget

Titanium Dome
11-20-2005, 02:56 PM
...but it's the PT800 of course.


And what cost are we looking at?

Ron

Well, let's see, if I wrote it was twice the price, then that'd put it about $1500, right? Actually, recent price increases raise it to $1700.

If you'd like to know more, you can read about it here:

http://jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=PT800BLK&cat=PER&ser=PER

Here's a bigger picture. How does that look next to the L-820? (Sorry I don't have them scaled the same.)

edgewound
11-20-2005, 05:44 PM
Doesn't that sound like something you'd hear about on TV followed by "...ask your doctor."?


Widget

:applaud:....I couldn't find the ROFL emoticon

mikebake
11-20-2005, 07:51 PM
How does that look next to the L-820? (Sorry I don't have them scaled the same.)
Pretty damn similar if you remove the UHF device and move the "woofer" under the remainder..................:D

piturra
11-21-2005, 01:20 PM
... I do love how my JBL S26 sounds they sound soo clear and precise to me. There the best speakers I ever owned.:) ...

Subjective and blind-testing using Harman built a blind-testing room called the Multichannel Listening Lab (MLL) ... basically confirms your experience and statement!!!

The following is from Electronic Musician, Jul 1, 2001 on-line article "OBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVITY" (http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?releaseid=6742&magazinearticleid=111369&siteid=15) by Scott Wilkinson ...


"During a recent visit with several other audio journalists, I participated in a sample test run in the MLL, which was conducted by Sean Olive, manager of subjective evaluation for Harman International. Three consumer speakers were mounted behind the grille cloth: a Boston Acoustics CR8, a B&W DM601, and a JBL S26. At the end of the testing, we learned that most of us had ranked the JBL S26 as the best speaker on most clips ..."



So, it was not a surprise that, when the JBL S26 (x4 w/JBL S-Center) was Objectively Measured by Home (http://server4.103092804.com/Release3/linkredirect.php?h=40083,240824,1132604411) Theater Magazine, ... they published the following Lab report ...


On-axis response of the S26 L/R measures +1.7/-1.4 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The -3dB point is at 48 Hz, and the -6dB point is at 43 Hz.

... and then concluded by saying ...


...the JBL system measured very flat in the lab; in fact, it had the flattest response of any ensemble in the roundup. . . . The JBL Studio ensemble offers excellent bang for the buck for those who are looking to get their feet wet in home theater.



I personally use 6 (six) JBL S26's to anchor my Front's, Side & Rear Surrounds w/timbre-matched JBL S-Center (LFE / bass handled by my SVS 25-31PCi) and my usual family/friends that come over for my once or twice Friday NITE DVD presentations and I love the crystal clear, very smooth, wide , seamless 360-degree surround, dynamic's* (w/SVS think floor, couch, seat, wall, air and pant-leg moving LFE's when the DD/DTS-5.1/6.1 encoding calls for it) @ all my seating locations in my 20' x 30' HT/family room!!!

*Normal Playback SPL @ -10 dB below REF Level - approx. 105/106 dBc of FAST LFE SPL Peaks AVG. Last summer when I played "Atlantis-The Lost Empire" DTS @ -5 dB below REF Level (approx. 110 dBc AVG FAST LFE SPL Peaks) , ... I finally met my neighbor :scold: located over 50' from my right channel HT room wall / backyard (with a few fruit trees in between)!!! :blink:

Anyway, after Star Wars III, they all clapped during the credits!!! :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Next Friday NITE DVD is "War of the Worlds!!!" :cheers:

Oh yeah, ... the JBL S26's w/SVS sounds 'most glorious' in 2-channel, ... highly complemented by my friend that works @ Dolby Labs in SF!!! :yes: They use the JBL LSR's in their Studio and Demo rooms.

Not bad for approx. $103 each total (w/SH) for the six S26's (design keys based on JBL PRO Studio LSR 25's) & S-Center!!!

The SVS 25-31PCi was definitely worth the $549 + SH!!!

FYI: Secrets of Hi-Fi & HT Product Review SVS 25-31 PCi Powered Subwoofer December, 2002 (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_4/svs-25-31-pci-subwoofer-12-2002.html) by Dr. John E. Johnson, Jr. :coolness:



Phil

Velociraptor84
11-21-2005, 06:36 PM
Well it sure looks like I got good speakers for sure since they play very flat and clear you precise too. I guess it was good that I got the S26. But still somereason I liked the S38II more since it looks more like a pro studio monitor and it really reminds me of the JBL LSR6332 monitors since the S38II came from that. Of cource the orginal S38 came from the LSR6332 too. I just think that the S38II's color and design looks closer to the LSR6332.

Velociraptor84
11-21-2005, 06:42 PM
I still do like the Edirol MA-10D I have alot too you know since for the price I paid for them it's the best ever.

Mr. Widget
11-21-2005, 07:08 PM
Well it sure looks like I got good speakers for sure...
Thank God we got that settled. :applaud:
Now just try to enjoy them and quit looking for approval from someone else.

Widget

Zilch
11-21-2005, 08:09 PM
Thank God we got that settled. :applaud: :rotfl:


[You think? :p ]

Velociraptor84
11-22-2005, 12:10 AM
I currently have my system using a Pioneer VSX-405 receiver and a pair of JBL HLS410 and I am using a JBL SUB135. I tried using the JBL S26 with sub but tooooo much bass and made it sound too boomy. So I decided to use the JBL HLS410 which really worked well with the sub. The sub goes low as 40hz and I tried to test it in 35hz but when the tone is at 35hz it is not that powerful since its -6db at 35hz on my sub. But at 40hz its only -3db so that's why I can hear it well on that freq. Of cource when it's 45hz I can hear that freq very loud compaired to 40hz or 35hz since at 45hz it's -0db so that's very cool. I have a program called TrueRTA so that's how I know what db is in what freq. :cool:

Velociraptor84
11-22-2005, 12:22 AM
Of cource I still use my Sony MDR-V300 headphones when I don't want my mom to hear my music when it's late at night. Or sometimes I just feel like listening to my music with headphones too.


Most of my music's are in MD's instead of CD's. I have over more than 54 MD's and they hold up to 150min of music too more min than CD's.

Steve Gonzales
11-22-2005, 08:56 AM
I currently have my system using a Pioneer VSX-405 receiver and a pair of JBL HLS410 and I am using a JBL SUB135. I tried using the JBL S26 with sub but tooooo much bass and made it sound too boomy. So I decided to use the JBL HLS410 which really worked well with the sub. The sub goes low as 40hz and I tried to test it in 35hz but when the tone is at 35hz it is not that powerful since its -6db at 35hz on my sub. But at 40hz its only -3db so that's why I can hear it well on that freq. Of cource when it's 45hz I can hear that freq very loud compaired to 40hz or 35hz since at 45hz it's -0db so that's very cool. I have a program called TrueRTA so that's how I know what db is in what freq. :cool: Hey VR84, you have a cool little entry level rig there, I'm sure it sounds great. I've got to say that you are playin' with the BIG DOGS here, which is NOT a bad thing, you have to understand that there are veteran JBL fans here and some of us own some pretty amazing Legacy & and new high end models. You're definately on the right track, you have some JBL's, that's cool and you recognize the quality and appreciate the engineering. As someone suggested earlier, find a member in your neck of the woods that owns some big ol' JBL's and give them a listen, you'll start to understand why you're getting ribbed here a little . If your S26's are that good to you, imagine what the larger, more exotic models sound like!. I use specifications and subjective listening opinions as a baseline to seek out, but always trust my own ears and know what I like. There is alot more out there to experience as far as JBL is concerned, enjoy the journey, Sincerely, Steve G.

Rolf
11-22-2005, 01:44 PM
Hey VR84, you have a cool little entry level rig there, I'm sure it sounds great. I've got to say that you are playin' with the BIG DOGS here, which is NOT a bad thing, you have to understand that there are veteran JBL fans here and some of us own some pretty amazing Legacy & and new high end models. You're definately on the right track, you have some JBL's, that's cool and you recognize the quality and appreciate the engineering. As someone suggested earlier, find a member in your neck of the woods that owns some big ol' JBL's and give them a listen, you'll start to understand why you're getting ribbed here a little . If your S26's are that good to you, imagine what the larger, more exotic models sound like!. I use specifications and subjective listening opinions as a baseline to seek out, but always trust my own ears and know what I like. There is alot more out there to experience as far as JBL is concerned, enjoy the journey, Sincerely, Steve G.

Your post is absolutley worthhttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/cheers.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif

Rolf

MJC
11-23-2005, 07:59 PM
[QUOTE]The problem here is that junk with the JBL logo on it tarnishes the brand. In the old days (pre Radiance Series) JBL was available at several price points. Each was really a quality item at it's price point. These days, the buyer must know what they're doing... you can't just recommend that a friend buy anything with JBL on it. They are selling some outstanding speakers and then they are also sell some that are milking the good name that JBL has built... that is an excellent way to ruin the brand. This type of win for marketing will make it that much less likely that the Array Series will be a success. I haven't heard the Array Series yet, but due to the continual dilution of the JBL brand, it will most likely be difficult to find them at any decent stereo shops.

The only thing that is really different with JBL from the '60's~'70's is where they're sold. Back then JBLs were only sold in fairly high end stereo shops. Over the last 20 years they've been sold in places like CC, BB, Costco.

But for my listening taste, I never liked their "bookshelf speakers", which is what the L100 was. At that time, I much preferred the L55s, L65s. And then we had the L212, L250, 250Ti.

Now the only current or at least recent model JBLs I've heard are whatever models have been sold in BB, these last few years, and they really leave something to be desired compared to the L212, L250, 250Ti

JBL's biggest problem now is they have very few brick and morter places that sells the PS, K2, or Array. Of coarse they are available online, but I prefer to hear speakers before I buy them, my sub1500s excluded.

Velociraptor84
11-26-2005, 07:38 PM
I found out a way to make it so my system doesn't sound soo boomy. What I did was I turned my sub's volume down then it doesn't sound too bassy. I am using the JBL S26 now with my JBL SUB135.

mikebake
11-26-2005, 08:24 PM
HEY! You TOO? I found that turning my sub volume down reduced bass boominess, too! I am now using the JBL 5674 quad 15 "subs" with the JBL Control 1's.

MJC
11-27-2005, 08:38 AM
I found out a way to make it so my system doesn't sound soo boomy. What I did was I turned my sub's volume down then it doesn't sound too bassy. I am using the JBL S26 now with my JBL SUB135.

That's a given, you always have to have ALL speakers in a system to be equally balanced to produce the proper sound. Of coarse, the new recievers and pre/pros that have auto EQ setups make it easy.

Akira
11-27-2005, 09:32 AM
Hey VR84, you have a cool little entry level rig there, I'm sure it sounds great. I've got to say that you are playin' with the BIG DOGS here, which is NOT a bad thing, you have to understand that there are veteran JBL fans here and some of us own some pretty amazing Legacy & and new high end models. You're definately on the right track, you have some JBL's, that's cool and you recognize the quality and appreciate the engineering. As someone suggested earlier, find a member in your neck of the woods that owns some big ol' JBL's and give them a listen, you'll start to understand why you're getting ribbed here a little . If your S26's are that good to you, imagine what the larger, more exotic models sound like!. I use specifications and subjective listening opinions as a baseline to seek out, but always trust my own ears and know what I like. There is alot more out there to experience as far as JBL is concerned, enjoy the journey, Sincerely, Steve G.
thank you for showing this young man some respect. i think VR84 has the right attitude...open minded and willing to learn....something a lot of us should do.
a note to VR84. yes there is a wide range of talent and knowledge here, but don't be intimidated into thinking that just because we are older and battle worn we neccessarily know more or are right in our beliefs--that goes for any and all of us. sound is a very scientific thing with very unscientific results. the one thing i have learned in a 25 year career is that you can learn something from anyone. i'm not just saying that, I REALLY MEAN IT! employees who had a fraction of my knowledge have taught me things simply because their background provided them with a different realm of expereince than my own. example: i once trained an ex-keyboard player to do live sound. when it came to the keyboard solo in "rocky mountain way" he used the glide contol on the DDL playing it with his hand note for note along with the solo just as he had done when he was a musician---totally blew me away; i would never have thought of that.

the field of audio is so vast that no one can know everything--especially when it is based on opinion. you are on the right track. the only thing that matters is what appeals to you. with time your own realm of experience will change and along with that your tastes and opinions.
finally....when you are older and been through the wars like many of us, you will know a lot but, you still won't be right much of the time...you will just think you are. ;)