B460 Subwoofer information

[mbottz]

After seeing the latest B460 selling on e-bay, and reading the excellent reviews from others in the forum, I must have one!! Being on a budget which will not allow me to compete for the one currently selling on e-pay, I would like to build one.

I have read may threads from other members wanting to build a B460 subwoofer as well. I have found many beautiful pictures from members in the archives, but no published dimensions or drawings. Is there a set of plans for these subwoofers out there? If so can anyone direct me to them? If not is anyone willing to help me catalog the dimensions into a set of construction drawings?

If someone will assist me, I will create a set of plans and have them drawn in CAD. When finished I will submit to the forum for the archives and anyone else who wishes to construct one.

I am interested in constructing one for my home theater setup and would appreciate any help given.

Thanks

Mike

[Zilch]

The design basics are here:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/technical/1983-subs.htm

But, if I'm reading you correctly, you're talking about construction drawings for the real thing? Nobody's worked that up that I'm aware of here.... :(

[mbottz]

There is something about the look of the JBL B460. You are exactly right, I am interested in the recreating the classic JBL look as well as the sound.

Hope someone can help with this.

Mike

[duaneage]

There was a thread a short while ago where someone was making a 460 and another forum member provided measurements and photos. Search for 460 and you shall find

[Lancer]

I happened to remember John was involved so I did a search on B460 and his name:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5382

[Zilch]

I remembered the kitty sittin' in there, but couldn't search by image.... :p

[John]

Hi I have to apologize I dropped that thread when I dropped my boat in the water this summer, but that is over now and it is back to all things JBL:applaud:

I am in contact with mbottz and will supply him with the info needed for him to develop them into a CAD drawing which will be posted and shared on this forum.:D

[mbottz]

Many thanks to John :applaud: for volunteering his time to help with this project. Stay tuned for more updates in the coming month/s. I think it is important to document the classic designs, which hold an interest for many of our members. I have been able to repair most any cabinet to like new condition,(L-100's, L65's, 4311's, and other common models) but finding lower production specialty enclosures to restore such as the B460 are almost impossible to find and even more difficult to afford.

Once the drawings are complete I will start construction of my own B460. Another thread will be posted to follow the progress. Then we can let the forum decide if this is a valuable effort of not. :D

Should this develop the way I hope it will, and there is enough interest, I may tackle a larger project. Any suggestions? :bouncy:

Thanks again John

Mike

[louped garouv]

@#%& what the forum thinks, they're all a bunch of @#$%&*@. This is most definitely a valuable effort so thank you right up front for the effort.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3166 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3166)

agreed....


ummm, about the valuable effort part. :D
gotta admit that I like most of Lancer's too though...

[John]

[QUOTE=mbottz]After seeing the latest B460 selling on e-bay, and reading the excellent reviews from others in the forum, I must have one!! Being on a budget which will not allow me to compete for the one currently selling on e-pay, I would like to build one.

I have read may threads from other members wanting to build a B460 subwoofer as well. I have found many beautiful pictures from members in the archives, but no published dimensions or drawings. Is there a set of plans for these subwoofers out there? If so can anyone direct me to them? If not is anyone willing to help me catalog the dimensions into a set of construction drawings?

If someone will assist me, I will create a set of plans and have them drawn in CAD. When finished I will submit to the forum for the archives and anyone else who wishes to construct one.



Hi Mike Are you still on this, have not heard from you for quite a while since I supplied all the exterior dimensions

[mbottz]

I have a friend helping me with the CAD portion (I can only draw things by hand) and it has taken longer than anticipated to get to a point I can send you a drawing for dimension verification. CAD is a funny thing as when you draw the cabinet if you are off in any calculations the program lets you know!! There were a few dimensions we had to take liberty with to make the drawing come out correctly. I am just waiting on my (free) help to fit the project in to his busy schedule and finish the drawing. Today he said he would probally be finished sometime this week. I will send you a PDF copy when done for a recheck of dimensions. Once you bestow your blessing on the dimensions we can start on the internal bracing and grill frame.

Feel free to e-mail me with any ?'s at [email protected]

MB

[John]

That sounds good, I will be ready when you are. I am glad everything is good at that end as sometimes life happens when we least expect it! :hmm:

[oldbanger]

Hi John,

Could you forward me the dimension info?
mailto:[email protected] ([email protected])
Need to get this cabinet going.
Thanks
Al

[Heffaklumpen]

If it´s possible I would like those drawings too.

I have a 2245h laying around waiting for me to build a cabinet.

thank you
Heffaklumpen (from Sweden)
[email protected]

[jpb_dk]

Hi guys,

Are there news about the B460 cabinet drawings ?
I like to make some sub's as well.
thanks jens [email protected]

[mbottz]

Plans have been sent to John for verification of dimensions, about a week ago. Once I have verified dimensions from John, I will make the corrections. All we have left to work on is the grill drawing and documentation. John has been absolutely great to work with on this project. Hope we can complete it before too much longer. It seems that pesky "Job Thing" keeps getting in the way of important stuff like this.

If you read this John maybe you can give us an update on the drawing review.

MB

[Butch Adams]

I almost gave up, glad to see this moving forward again. Will you be able to provide cut details for joints? That front looks tricky

[mbottz]

Since we are only providing dimensions from measuring an actual unit, you will have the liberty to use any corner joints you are comfortable with. As with all copies of an original, there will be a bit of improvising required on the part of the assembler. The internal volume will be right and external dimensions will allow for a very exact replica.

I am interested in being as exact as possible, so.......o, If any one has any info on the joints and has a b460 disassembled that can share that info with me I will include it in the final drawing.

I welcome any info from anyone.

MB

[John]

I am home again and will push this forward, Lets see if we can get the info togeather so anyone that is ready to take a crack at this can start letting the wood fly!!!:bouncy:

[spirou38]

I am home again and will push this forward, Lets see if we can get the info togeather so anyone that is ready to take a crack at this can start letting the wood fly!!!:bouncy:

Hi John,

Any news of the B460 dimensions ?

Pascal

[jpb_dk]

i like to help with some filter parts if i can..
Maby a electronic filter with variable phase-shift and some other funny stuff
Thanks Jens

[spirou38]

Hi Jon,

Here is my first JBL B460 clone without the speaker.
http://pas.voisin.free.fr/JBL_B460/B460_compressed.jpg
http://pas.voisin.free.fr/JBL_B460/B460_compressed.jpg

But it's just a prototype, a half size one with just estimated dimensions !

Any news of the CAAD drawings ?

Best regards.

Pascal

[Earl K]

Hey Pascal

- Nice prototype !

- Here's a reduction of your jpg, for anyone wanting to keep it on file .

:)

[grumpy]

Hope you made that cutout for an 8" driver (vs. 9") :D
Just the box to put in one of the many 112H drivers we all have laying around.

(nice work and use of splines) -grumpy

[mrbluster]

Maby a electronic filter with variable phase-shift and some other funny stuff
[/QUOTE]


If or when someone builds an updated BX63A I would like to put in my order now. Variable phase shift would be nice, as well as a range starting around 32HZ. Also a XO "bypass" that still included the necessary EQ for use with a Dolby 5.1 Sub output.

[spirou38]

Hope you made that cutout for an 8" driver (vs. 9") :D
Just the box to put in one of the many 112H drivers we all have laying around.

(nice work and use of splines) -grumpy

Thus the cut-out has been done for a 8" driver the volume is not big enough for using a good 8" driver :(

For the veneering finish, I first put a gold oak tint ; then, 10 times of the forum recommanded mixture made of 1/4 turpentine 3/4 linseed oil, but I forgot that I had to sand between the 2 or 3 first coatings ; the patina is very close to JBL's but the color is not red enough. I think that it is probably because I used french walnut veneering. Next time I will try to mix with a little bit of mahogany color.

In the definitive version of my B460 clone I will first use a JBL W15GTi driver ( that I currently have ) because it is very difficult to find 2245H in France or in Europe. So the clone will have a removable front panel and also easily removable ports. So that if I find a 2245H ...

But for the moment, I don't have the exact dimensions of the original B460 :( :( :( , my prototypr has been done with estimated dimensions that I extrapolated from pictures. I hope John could soon post the CAAD drawings with true dimensions.

Pascal

[matsj]

Hello spirou38 the box looks great. There is 2 2245h for sale here in the south of sweden ( not mine ). It´s not so far from France.

regards mats

[mbottz]

There seems to be some differences between the published JBL size and the measurements, which John and I have measured. Once this is straitened out I will post the first of our progress for others to use as they wish. Then we will start the dimensioning of the grill and Internal bracing. Please be patient as this task has proved to be more difficult than I had originally expected. AutoCAD is not very forgiving when it comes to measurements that differ as little as 1/32.

If you read this John, let me know when your schedule will allow us to finish the main cabinet dimensions.

Regards

MB

[spirou38]

There seems to be some differences between the published JBL size and the measurements, which John and I have measured. Once this is straitened out I will post the first of our progress for others to use as they wish. Then we will start the dimensioning of the grill and Internal bracing. Please be patient as this task has proved to be more difficult than I had originally expected. AutoCAD is not very forgiving when it comes to measurements that differ as little as 1/32.

If you read this John, let me know when your schedule will allow us to finish the main cabinet dimensions.

Regards

MB

Hello Mbottz,

Have fun with Auto CAD :) . Did you measured in " or in millimeters ?
Thank you for the great job that John & you are doing :applaud: .

Best regards from France.

Pascal

[mbottz]

Well it has been a much bigger task than I originally expected, but at last we have a drawing. For those of you who have been following this for the last 6 months or better I apologize it has taken so long. Thanks to my CAD operator Jeff Scott, I am in your debt for the many hours you have spent on this. This drawing is as close as CAD will allow us to get to the actual measurements. I might add that when we measured the actual B460 many dimensions differed from the posted dimensions in the brochures. This is why it was taking so long. So keep in mind that this is extremely close but may differ from actual +/- 1/16 in some areas. It is up to the builder what type joints to use and what materials to use. I am not sure any of us has the time to wait for me to research these details. Should someone else wish to add these items, be my guest.
It is hard to believe that with all the time spent on this it is still not complete. John and I still have the grill and bracing to document. However this drawing will allow any one wishing to build a B460 more than enough info to create one. No way to tell when the grill and bracing drawings will be complete. So enjoy for now and let the wood chips fly !!!

[spirou38]

Well it has been a much bigger task than I originally expected, but at last we have a drawing. For those of you who have been following this for the last 6 months or better I apologize it has taken so long. Thanks to my CAD operator Jeff Scott, I am in your debt for the many hours you have spent on this. This drawing is as close as CAD will allow us to get to the actual measurements. I might add that when we measured the actual B460 many dimensions differed from the posted dimensions in the brochures. This is why it was taking so long. So keep in mind that this is extremely close but may differ from actual +/- 1/16 in some areas. It is up to the builder what type joints to use and what materials to use. I am not sure any of us has the time to wait for me to research these details. Should someone else wish to add these items, be my guest.
It is hard to believe that with all the time spent on this it is still not complete. John and I still have the grill and bracing to document. However this drawing will allow any one wishing to build a B460 more than enough info to create one. No way to tell when the grill and bracing drawings will be complete. So enjoy for now and let the wood chips fly !!!


Many thanks to John, Mbottz and Jeff Scott for that great job :applaud:

My B460 clone could now enter in production :D

Pascal

[Valentin]

Last Friday i received a new 2242h to do my New version of the B460 thanks for the plans.

The original was tuned to 26 hz can some tel me the port length to tune it to 25hz ala 4645C

i will probably be building two units in mirror image to put in my entertainment room and control some modes with the right positioning of them and some EQ will be running them in mono with bryston amps 400 watts each

[robertbartsch]

So do you have capenter skills?

Someone told me here a while back that the "high" price for good used cabinets was justified. After more than a year or so in this hobby, I now realize that getting good cabs is one of the more diffucult aspects of this hobby.

So far, I have purchased several used cabs, had several made by a cabinet maker, made a couple myself and purchased a few whole systems.

The labor involved in reconditioning cabs is typically large; having them made by a cabinet maker is expensive and making good cabs yourself requires a fare amount of skill and money.

[Valentin]

It doesn't matter. The bump filter wasn't spot on 26 Hz either. It just doesn't matter. It was something like 25.6 Hz and JBL rounded it up to 26 Hz.


Thanks i will keep the ports as original dimension.


So do you have Carpenter skills?

none but i do have a good carpenter and will be supervised the bracing as specified in the picture i have of the original.

[JBL 4645]

I’m curious I just noticed the port holes appear to be inline with some type of bracing inside the enclosure is this for extended port length or other?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=13478&stc=1&d=1141742474

[matsj]

I have nearly a CAD file ready on them.

mats

[JBL 4645]

I have nearly a CAD file ready on them.

mats

Wow that is super-cool and the cut-away-slice of the side view looks nice. :applaud:

[Valentin]

I have nearly a CAD file ready on them.

mats


could you please share the cad file it would greatly help my box building

I am building two units i got a good deal on the 2242H drivers and on the woodwork

Regards


Valentin

[matsj]

Shure, no problem. It takes a couple of days to get it right.

mats

[Heffaklumpen]

I´m also intrested in the cad file.

Gott jobb Mats....

Regards Heffaklumpen

[Valentin]

Mats

What program did you use to do that render

Valentin

[matsj]

Solidworks.

mats

[rusty jefferson]

Good morning,

I just found this forum while looking for accurate cabinet plans for the b-460 subwoofer. Am I in the right place here? Are you working on such plans, and if so would it be possible to share in them? This is my 1st post here, sorry for jumping in with both feet.-Rusty

[Valentin]

nice program


Rusty

there is alsow a PDF plans of this cabinet it is a great stating point

[rusty jefferson]

Thanks Valentin. I just spent some time following this whole thread. During the day today, someone from the forum e-mailed me the pdf file directly. Thanks! I'm curious about the cad drawings also, as the cabinetmaker who is going to help me build this has a cnc router and could cut out half a dozen of these with precision, as kits ready assemble. Any interest going this way?

Thanks-Rusty

[matsj]

Since you need a CAD program to open a CAD file i post some pdf for you to start with:

mats

[matsj]

More.

mats

[matsj]

Some more. And i´ll upload the CAD file later.
Let me know if there is something wrong in the pdf files.

mats

[Valentin]

wow Mats


excelent thanks a lot
my only observation is it does not have the horizontal rounded front edges

still wow

thanks


i do have a cad viewer it a free download from them

[Valentin]

Mats and boltz and forum thanks


thanks a lot here a preview of the work being done

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0045.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0047.jpg

[rusty jefferson]

Looks VERY good. Nice job.

[Valentin]

all most finished
need a couple more hands of varnish and fix details

maybe by this weekend



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0049.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0050.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0051.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0052.jpg

[Allanvh5150]

mm mm. Nice work. That build was probably quicker than JBL! And you built two of them!!!:bouncy:

[Earl K]

Nice Work Valentin !

& many thanks to all those who made this DIY effort possible .

>< cheers

[Valentin]

thanks to the forum

final pictures

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0055.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0058.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0056.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0059.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0066.jpg

[hjames]

Gorgeous setup ... 2 B460s - and not a Plasma screen in site ...!
Its all about the music - not about movies, eh?

Very cool! Enjoy!

[Doc Mark]

Hola, Valentin,

Very nice work! Have you had a chance to fully audition them, yet? I'd love to hear your thoughts on how your new subs sound with that 2242H in the cabinets. Again, well done, and thanks for sharing your project with us. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[rusty jefferson]

Your cabinets came out very nice, congratulations. Can you tell us a little bit about crossover and amplifier selection. I ask because since finding this resource, I have purchased 2 2245hs and hope to be building cabinets in the next few months. I am planning on using my bx63a and a pro amp that can drive both, or use a Anthoney Gallo s.a. sub amp [or 2 of them] with built in crossover[s]. Im curious what you a considering. Also, if I could, I would like to make recommendation. Last year, I added a large [24"x24"x4"] maple platform with heavy brass feet on the bottom, under my b-380. I also added the same brass feet to the bottom of the sub. This vibration control method made an amazing improvement to the sound of my stereo. Super tight bass, and no more vibrating windows, picture frames, etc. I will definately be using them under the cabinets I build.

[Valentin]

thanks

i will be using a bryston 8bst for the subs in bridged so that should be 400 watts per sub (4 channel 120w per channel -2 channels bridged mode 400w) i am using a DEQX 2.6p HD as crossover and processor

about the feet yes i plan too use some small spikes with cups it should help

i have still to adjust the system but integration between mains a sub are very good

[rusty jefferson]

Thanks for the info, Valentin. I'll look into the equiptment you've mentioned. I'm not familiar with either piece. As far as the feet go, the small spikes in cups will be very little improvement. If you don't want to mark up the floor, then use a radiused footer on the bottom of the previously mentioned maple platform, and the heavy brass footers on the speaker bottoms, into the maple. This type of arrangement will have a HUGE impact on the speakers performance. I did'nt think it was going to do much for my b-380, but I was shocked at the improvement.

Rusty

[matsj]

Now i have the CAD file. It´s to big to load here so go to my own site: http://meanaudio.wetpaint.com/page/Jbl+B460 or send me a PM with your email and i´ll email it to you. Go all the way down on my B460 page and you will find it.

mats

[hjames]

Now i have the CAD file. It´s to big to load here so go to my own site: http://meanaudio.wetpaint.com/page/Jbl+B460 or send me a PM with your email and i´ll email it to you. Go all the way down on my B460 page and you will find it.

mats

Or grab it stateside here (thanks for sending it, Mats!)

http://www.thewebgal.com/jbl/B460-CAD.EASM (http://www.thewebgal.com/jbl/B460-CAD.EASM)(about 103k)
(http://www.thewebgal.com/jbl/B460-CAD.EASM)

[Cyclotronguy]

Any modern drivers that would substitute into a project that is "in the spirit" of the mighty B460, with equal or hopefully better performance?

Cyclotronguy

[Ian Mackenzie]

Jbl 2242

[matsj]

Build a 150 liters B460 look a like ported to 18hz with a W15GTI .

mats

[JBL 4645]

I was kinder thinking how about two B460 one that is mirrored because the ports and the 18” is only in one location to the right, so how about a second one that is located to the left.;)

[4313B]

Build a 150 liters B460 look a like ported to 18hz with a W15GTI .Why settle for such a lousy solution just because it's cheap? There are tons of 2242's and 2245's out there.

[Cyclotronguy]

Ian,

You know how we do things around here, were not looking for the easy or innexpensive solution..... just the one's that will get us evicted!!!!

Cyclotronguy

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yes,

The JBL 2242 (new) will meet your objectives.

[mech986]

Wow, Thanks to everyone on this thread for doing such a great job producing the drawings and creating the prototypes and finished cabinets. Maybe everyone should post a few picks of how theirs turned out.


I was kinder thinking how about two B460 one that is mirrored because the ports and the 18” is only in one location to the right, so how about a second one that is located to the left.;)

JBL 4645, take a look at the top picture of post 55. The mirror image cabinet is tucked in the corner on the left.

Valentin, could you provide a nice picture of the left cabinet for us to drool over??? That was a great job of producing the mirror cabs. It gives me great inspiration!!

Also, do you have any pics of the round over process and how you or your carpenter did the veneering? What veneer and type of veneer did you use as I'm contemplating paper backed or raw veneer.

Also, just want to say kudos to your carpenter. In every country, there are true craftsmen and it is a joy to see their work.

Spirou/Pascal, did you ever complete your mini-b460 and how did it work? Did you build the full size boxes?

Last question for now. Has anyone worked up the measurements for grille?

Thanks!!

Bart

[spirou38]

Spirou/Pascal, did you ever complete your mini-b460 and how did it work? Did you build the full size boxes?

Hello Bart,

No, the mini B460 was just a try for veneering. An the full size one is not yet done because of a big health problem. I plan to begin it in autumn and will post some pics when it will be finished. I have got a nice 2245H since a few weeks.

Pascal

[mbottz]

Dont forget, RJ timmerman AKA (Sign Shop on ebay) makes the foilicals and grill pegs for the finishing touch on these beauties. He does such an accurate job i'm not sure even James Lansing could tell the difference.

MB

[Valentin]

JBL 4645, take a look at the top picture of post 55. The mirror image cabinet is tucked in the corner on the left.

Valentin, could you provide a nice picture of the left cabinet for us to drool over??? That was a great job of producing the mirror cabs. It gives me great inspiration!!

Also, do you have any pics of the round over process and how you or your carpenter did the veneering? What veneer and type of veneer did you use as I'm contemplating paper backed or raw veneer.

Also, just want to say kudos to your carpenter. In every country, there are true craftsmen and it is a joy to see their work.


Bart

i will take a picture soon of them together finished with and without grills

here are son old photos

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0055.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0054.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0053.jpg

and back side
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0057.jpg

it is a raw veener not papper backed of a hard wood named tzalam

[mech986]

Valentin, any way you could repost or upload pics again, they are all missing. You may have trouble if the servers are acting up.