Wanting more - SPL

[JBLTEC]

I've already mentioned here that I want some JBL's or Altec's with horns. Let me elaborate by saying that I like my music loud as well as all of the other goodies at moderate levels (can't crank it all the time:banghead: ) I like the bass and volume that I can achieve with my JBL CF 120's and they do OK with moderate volume information as well. I'm looking for more, what can you guys recommend for say $600 or less? Horns or not. Tired of collecting disappointments. Always come back to the CF 120's but I'm sure it gets better than that. The Altecs I have sound good but I can't put that much power to them to get the volume I want. I like my Klipsch too but they serve mainly in my HT setup and with my tubes when the mood strikes. Thanks to all for your time.

Jason

[edgewound]

I've already mentioned here that I want some JBL's or Altec's with horns. Let me elaborate by saying that I like my music loud as well as all of the other goodies at moderate levels (can't crank it all the time:banghead: ) I like the bass and volume that I can achieve with my JBL CF 120's and they do OK with moderate volume information as well. I'm looking for more, what can you guys recommend for say $600 or less? Horns or not. Tired of collecting disappointments. Always come back to the CF 120's but I'm sure it gets better than that. The Altecs I have sound good but I can't put that much power to them to get the volume I want. I like my Klipsch too but they serve mainly in my HT setup and with my tubes when the mood strikes. Thanks to all for your time.

Jason

Maybe the most bang for the buck would be a pair of good 4311's, L100's, L100t3, or 4425's in need of some TLC...anyone else?

[Zilch]

First, spend $50 at Radio Shack for an SPL meter.

Keep it under 85 dBA....

[JBLTEC]

First, spend $50 at Radio Shack for an SPL meter.

Keep it under 85 dBA....

Help me out here. I think the "A" in dbA means A weighted but I'm not sure how that rates compared to the regular SPL ratings we all seem to be acustomed to. I hope that 85 dbA is loud cause it sure don't look that way on my screen. I want to be able to hit sustained SPL's of 115db to 120db peaks and still have the complexities of my various types of music to remain clear and yes I want the whole house along with myself to shake. Is this unrealistic?

Jason

[Zilch]

It's highly unrealistic.

You'll ruin your hearing. 90 dBA is the OSHA maximum level for 8-hour occupational exposure.

115 dB will finish off your hearing in a matter of minutes.

Google SPL. Read up....

Here, for example:

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

http://consensus.nih.gov/1990/1990NoiseHearingLoss076html.htm

Above 85 dBA, your hearing threshold progressively shifts, and you have to keep increasing the volume to achieve the same perceived loudness. That's why the band keeps cranking it up as the evening wears on.

It's ALSO why THEY'RE using earplugs, of course....



A-weighting: A measurement scale that approximates the "loudness" of tones relative to a 40 dB SPL 1000 Hz reference tone. A-weighting has the added advantage of being correlated with annoyance measures and is most responsive to the mid frequencies, 500 to 4000 Hz..

C-weighting: A measurement scale that approximates the "loudness" of tones relative to a 90 dB SPL 1000 Hz reference tone. C-weighting has the added advantage of providing a relatively "flat" measurement scale which includes very low frequencies.

[JBLTEC]

I'm familiar with the OSHA ratings as I have spent the last 15 years in a fabrication/machine shop environment for 8 to 10 hrs a day. I don't want to sit in front of these speakers that long I just want them to be capable of it if I so desire. My CF 120's are rated at 96db 1w/m on paper I should be able to get 117db w/ 128 watts. My H/K amps are good for 200 watts/ea. when bridged. I see that what I want is possible with my current setup. What I am looking for is a better quality sound at similar levels. Please correct me if I am misguided in my thinking. Hearing damage aside can I expect to achieve this?

Jason

[Zilch]

Hearing damage aside can I expect to achieve this?With JBL? SURE, but not on MY advice, alas.... :(

[Deadwood]

Try the Studio Series S-312 or S-412, they are not vintage JBL, but they sound good.

[boputnam]

First, spend $50 at Radio Shack for an SPL meter.

Keep it under 85 dBA....Good one, Zilch! :thmbsup:

[JBLTEC]

Let me put this a bit differently. I want it loud without having to crank the Chit out of my amp. I just want good sound with the ability to play loud in the event a party should break out.

Jason

[Lancer]

Let me put this a bit differently. I want it loud without having to crank the Chit out of my amp. I just want good sound with the ability to play loud in the event a party should break out.

JasonOk... You need a pair of the old S23 system. They will get you into the 124 dB range with a single Citation 19.

130H/2220H in 6 cu ft vented box tuned to 48 Hz.
375/2440 compression driver with HL89/2390 horn/lens.
075/2402 ring radiator
LX50A network
N7000 network

Guaranteed to punish everyone in the room real bad. ;)

[JBLTEC]

Ok... You need a pair of the old S23 system. They will get you into the 124 dB range with a single Citation 19.

130H/2220H in 6 cu ft vented box tuned to 48 Hz.
375/2440 compression driver with HL89/2390 horn/lens.
075/2402 ring radiator
LX50A network
N7000 network

Guaranteed to punish everyone in the room real bad. ;)

Now we're talking. I don't want to lust after any other speakers. I want to purchase my last pair. Well, for a bit anyway. I'm gonna guess that this will be more than $600.00? It does give me an idea of what I am looking for though.Thanks.

Jason

[spkrman57]

Nice old vintage sound that won't hold up against todays best, but nice with a old tube amp maybe!

Ron

[Lancer]

Nice old vintage sound that won't hold up against todays best, but nice with a old tube amp maybe!

RonNone of these obsolete JBL systems hold up against today's best.

[JBLTEC]

None of these obsolete JBL systems hold up against today's best.

So what would you recommend?

Jason

[Lancer]

Hell I don't know. $600?

That's not the kind of budget I work with when high efficiency JBL's are required. Maybe you can scout around for some old Cabaret's or something.

Edgewound isn't too far off the mark. Four of any of the systems he mentioned on a single Citation 19 work well in a normal house.

Toss some 2204H's and some 2344A/2425H's into some 2 cubic footers, put your strapped 19's on them and let them rip. I don't see where you get get that all together for $600 though. Maybe...

[edgewound]

Hell I don't know. $600?

That's not the kind of budget I work with when high efficiency JBL's are required. Maybe you can scout around for some old Cabaret's or something.

Edgewound isn't too far off the mark. Four of any of the systems he mentioned on a single Citation 19 work well in a normal house.

Toss some 2204H's and some 2344A/2425H's into some 2 cubic footers, put your strapped 19's on them and let them rip. I don't see where you get get that all together for $600 though. Maybe...

Yep....just last Friday I sold a very nice refurbished pair of L100t3 (walnut) to a customer for $600.00. They're on they're way to the Philipines. I almost took them home instead.

[JBLTEC]

That's why I'm asking. To learn what is out there and what I can expect to spend. $600.00 was just a starting point. You guys throw numbers around like your reading a tape measure. To someone who knows little about JBL and has more questions, since finding this site, than answers it is all a bit overwhelming. I'm asking questions in hopes of narrowing the search a bit. I'm sure a lot of the JBL products would suit my needs but some more than others. I do not desire to keep going thru the trial and error process. I do not subscribe to the opinion that "newer is better" however I still do not dismiss the newer stuff either. :blah: :blah: :blah: Thanks to all for the suggestions.

Jason

[edgewound]

Ya know?...Lancer mentioned the Cabaret...which I didn't think of for home use, but some people do. The 4628B makes a KILLER house party system...in fact I sold a pair to a customer coupled to a Carver TFM-45 years ago for just that. He heard a pair in my shop and wanted some immediately. He LOVED them and still has them 15 years later. I just saw a pair in the Recycler Los Angeles edition for $500.00/pair. Drivers are E145-8/2118 mid/2404H-1.


They're rather industrial looking but if you're handy, you can build pretty cabinets for them, or just repaint them black if they're beat....and chances are they will be beat...originally just a plywood cabinet painted black with spring loaded handles. bi-ampable with 1/4" jacks. I don't think you'll find a bigger sounding system for the money...Find 'em and love 'em....Caveat....the E145 is getting expensive to recone....currently $190.00 ea with factory kits.

[Zilch]

1) 4628B inverted on 4625B

2) 4691B inverted on 4625B

Note: 4691B's hot-rodded with 2226H woofers in lieu of E140. 4625B's hot-rodded with Sub1500 drivers.... :p

"What'dya do with all them E140's, Zilchster?"

[Heh, heh....]

[JBLTEC]

Cool. Something reasonably attainable. Now to find some. Can the drivers be had individually from somewhere? I can't tell from the pics, does the 4628B have a horn? Going by asthetics I like the 4691B. Been talking to a colleague that used to make furniture as hobby about some custom built cabinets ( I don't have the time and my expertise is with metal) Thanks for sticking with me guys. I'll do some research and I'm sure will have to come back with more questions.

Jason

[JBLTEC]

1) 4628B inverted on 4625B

2) 4691B inverted on 4625B

Note: 4691B's hot-rodded with 2226H woofers in lieu of E140. 4625B's hot-rodded with Sub1500 drivers.... :p

"What'dya do with the E140's, Zilchster?"

[Heh, heh....]

Whats the horn in the 4691B's? How about a model number on the crossovers?

[Zilch]

Apparently someone ignorant told you only horns play loud.

4628B has a cone midrange and horn tweeter (lower left in my inverted cabinets), as described by Edgewound, above. It's a smoother sounding system more suited for use also in the home than the 4691B. It also has better HF response from having that tweeter.

Hunting down individual drivers's gonna be more expensive than buying complete systems. Both appear regularly on eBay for $300 to $450 a pair. Find 'em locally, if you can. They don't ship well or cheaply.

You'll have plenty left over to acquire the requisite SPL meter.... ;)

Find out more about 4628B, including my "Z2" cabinets for the components, in this thread:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6403

Show the final drawing (Post #52) and Johnaec's rendering (Post #29) to your cabinet-building friend. Right-click to print....

[JBLTEC]

Apparently someone ignorant told you only horns play loud.




I have unfairly assumed due to the specs on efficiency that most of them do play loud. I am learning that this may not always be the case. I've just always liked horns.

Jason

[edgewound]

I concur with Zilch....the 4628B is way smoother and less fatiguing to listen to in a home setting and has lots more high end. Find some 4628B and have your friend build nice enclosures for them...using the same volume as the stock 4628B box.


Other wise....to source the components individually, you'll probably spend double.

[Lancer]

Well there you have it! I wasn't aware that the old Cabaret stuff could be had so cheap. We all know what that means...

Always did like that Series. Lots of fun.

[JBLTEC]

I downloaded a pdf on the Cabaret series and noticed that the 4628B's have an efficiency rating of 98db while other models are rated at 103db. Is it the 4628B's specifically that are better suited for home use or are the other models equally as useful? Should I not be so concerned with this spec? Found a set of them as well as 4612's in Minneapalis. I'm not ready financially yet to pursue them. Maybe someone here is. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/msg/108221686.html Good price too.

Jason

[Zilch]

4628B's are better for home use because of the cone midrange and tweeter. Several of us have measured 'em with RTA. Trust us on this - they sound mighty fine.... :thmbsup:

[JBLTEC]

Gotcha. Gonna be looking locally for a set and already have a few places in mind that may have them. Just curious about the 4612B's, what if I run across a pair of them? Been reading the link you posted and someone was gonna use one as a center channel?

Jason

[Zilch]

4612B's are the same components that are used for the mid and high in 4628B. But, even with their dual 8" drivers, they can't deliver the low frequencies that the additional 15" E145 woofer does in the larger system; they require a supplemental subwoofer for equivalent performance.

Center channel doesn't require all that in home theater, since the mains and sub(s) provide it.

[edgewound]

I downloaded a pdf on the Cabaret series and noticed that the 4628B's have an efficiency rating of 98db while other models are rated at 103db. Is it the 4628B's specifically that are better suited for home use or are the other models equally as useful? Should I not be so concerned with this spec? Found a set of them as well as 4612's in Minneapalis. I'm not ready financially yet to pursue them. Maybe someone here is. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/msg/108221686.html Good price too.

Jason

BTW Lancer, I share your affection for Cabaret Series...Highly useful in lots of applications.

Specifically...The 4691 was meant for Musicians as a club Sound Reinforcement system....the 2425/2370 driver/horn combo gives higher output, longer throw for live shows. The 4628 was meant for keyboard/synth players, and short throw club PA Sound reinforcement. 4628 also works great for a HI FI club/party DJ rig....wider bandwidth at the expense of efficiency...but at these sensitivities you'll blow your brains out before the speakers object. Like has been stated before...these will kick your ass....so will the 4698/4699 based on an E155 18" woofer...even more so!!!!

[JBLTEC]

Thanks,things are becoming more focused now. I'm hooked I gota have em. Time will tell.

Jason

[johnaec]

Those Cabarets in Minneapolis are a great deal, especially if he sells the 4628B's for the $275 in the title, (via JBL search there), ($375 in the ad is still great). The 4612B's are also a steal, but no LF...

John

[JBLTEC]

Those Cabarets in Minneapolis are a great deal, especially if he sells the 4628B's for the $275 in the title, (via JBL search there), ($375 in the ad is still great). The 4612B's are also a steal, but no LF...

John

Just for giggles I e-mailed him and he is not willing to ship them. Too far for me to drive.

Jason

[Zilch]

I'd be drivin' there for 'em....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:112&item=7362796289

[Zilch]

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-Cabaret-4628B-1-Pair-Full-Range-Audio-Speakers_W0QQitemZ7366625794QQcategoryZ47094QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

[tomt]

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/ele/110916998.html