E140 = 2225???

[toddalin]

Still looking for a fourth woofer for recone as a 2235. Came across an E140 basket on ebay. Seller says "recone it as a 2225..." In past postings, the E140 was not on Mr. Widget's list of 2235 recone baskets, yet the 2225 is. Can an E140 also be redone as a 2235?

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-E140-FRAME-15-NEEDS-RECONE-VINTAGE_W0QQitemZ7363280639QQcategoryZ47095QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also, can anyone verify that this second basket pic is a K140 that could be redone as a 2235? And, do you see any obvious flaws in the basket that could preclude it's recone?

Thanks again

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-K140-FRAME-ALNICO-15-NEEDS-RECONE-VINTAGE_W0QQitemZ7363275882QQcategoryZ47095QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Lancer]

One more time...

and this time if someone else posts saying "you can't hear the difference" they will be permanently banned from this site.


Two different cores, stock 2225/2235 1.2 T*m core and E130/E140 1.35 T*m core.

Red signifies changes from stock 2234H and 2235H.

[Lancer]

The 1.35 T*m assembly (E140 for example) uses the 7/8" thick magnet and the 0.280" top plate.

The 1.20 T*m assembly (2235H for example) uses the 3/4" thick magnet and the 0.280" top plate.

The 1.15 T*m assembly (2220H for example) uses the 3/4" thick magnet and the 0.350" top plate.

The 0.95 T*m assembly (2215H for example) uses the 7/8" thick magnet and the 0.600" top plate.
The 12-inch E120 also has the thicker E130/E140 magnet so when reconed as a 121H, 2202H, or 2204H there will be a difference (124A/124H/2203/2203H kit is unfortunately NLA).

[Ian Mackenzie]

One more time...

and this time if someone else posts saying "you can't hear the difference" they will be permanently banned from this site..

Yes it annoying, the last thing we want is hyprid wonna be's.

Modelling this is BassBox its obvious. If they had any brains at all they would have done this before opening their big traps.

[Lancer]

Opening their bass traps? Huh?

:rotfl:

BTW toddalin, thanks for bringing this up again. It's been the topic of several posts lately. Robh3606 has suggested this information be placed in the Technical Reference Section.

[toddalin]

Opening their bass traps? Huh?

:rotfl:

BTW toddalin, thanks for bringing this up again. It's been the topic of several posts lately. Robh3606 has suggested this information be placed in the Technical Reference Section.

You didn't answer the question and only added to the confusion???

[Robh3606]

Here we go. This should answer the guestion,

No not without a clearly audible difference between the 2 baskets due to the higher flux in the E series baskets see below.

Rob:)

[Lancer]

You didn't answer the question and only added to the confusion???You've got to be fucking kidding me... if you're confused by my posts then you need to find another hobby...

And... I've answered this question numerous times in numerous ways... it obviously didn't do any good.

[toddalin]

You've got to be fucking kidding me... if you're confused by my posts then you need to find another hobby...

And... I've answered this question numerous times in numerous ways... it obviously didn't do any good.

It was confusing because how would one know which model number basket is a 1.35 T*m, a 1.2 T*m, etc.???

Rob's post does a pretty good job of clearing this up.

[Lancer]

It was confusing because how would one know which model number basket is a 1.35 T*mE120, E130, E140.

Rob's post does a pretty good job of clearing this up.Ok.

If that's what does the trick here is the corrected version:

[Ian Mackenzie]

It was confusing because how would one know which model number basket is a 1.35 T*m, a 1.2 T*m, etc.???

Rob's post does a pretty good job of clearing this up.

I thought Lancer's post is quite concise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giskard
Two different cores, stock 2225/2235 = 1.2 T*m core and E130/E140 = 1.35 T*m core.

Red signifies changes from stock 2234H and 2235H




Perhaps the issue in the field is here baskets and cores have had the model number removed, only those experienced and technically familiar with the cores will know which is which (as noted in other threads).

[Zilch]

In 5 cuft tuned to 24.5 Hz:

Black = 1.20 T*m

Orchid = 1.35 T*m

[Miss Orchid]

Yes?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Zilch,

If you have time please post another sim with 5 cu ft 3 with an fb of 28. I did it before but did not save it . Its more meaningful and shows the effect on the electrical/magnetic TL parameters on the modelling on a max flat tuning.

[Zilch]

Yes?
:p

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well its obvious it does effect the response so as long as everyone takes note of that.

Ian

[toddalin]

I thought Lancer's post is quite concise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giskard
Two different cores, stock 2225/2235 = 1.2 T*m core and E130/E140 = 1.35 T*m core.

Red signifies changes from stock 2234H and 2235H

Perhaps the issue in the field is here baskets and cores have had the model number removed, only those experienced and technically familiar with the cores will know which is which (as noted in other threads).


OK, that being the case, can those that are "experienced and technically familiar with the cores" tell me if this is really a K140 basket?
Thanks


http://i23.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/5e/00/cf_1.JPG



http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/4c/a6/c2_1.JPG

[boputnam]

...and this time if someone else posts saying "you can't hear the difference" they will be permanently banned from this site.Bingo.

Hey Don - we should make this a codicil to posting here.

We cannot/should not endorse, nor encourage non-factory bullshit. Period.

[Zilch]

We cannot/should not endorse, nor encourage non-factory bullshit. Period.

The factory cautions regarding the altered performance. E140's reconed as 2235H's may, in fact, be the optimum choice in certain applications. Everybody's on notice that they're different. In my view, the factory frames it as a customer option.

Fact is, 2235H's are becoming harder to come by. Thrashed E140's and 2225's are being replaced with 2226H, and are thus more common. With 2235 recone kits still reasonably priced, it's reasonable to consider making 2235H's, or, in the case of E140's, hybrids out of 'em.

If the E140 hybrid produces more or better midbass than the "real" 2235H (not sayin' it does, yet, mind y'all), then trading off some of the low bass response may be a reasonable compromise.

I'll load a pair of each into 4430's and we can A/B 'em. :yes:

For the record, however, I do believe that shootin' WD-40 into pots or L-Pads is a very BAD idea.... :p

[boputnam]

The factory cautions regarding the altered performance. And many forumites may not have access to, nor knowledge of, that information, gentle reader...

[Robh3606]

Hello Toddalin

Can you do a side shot or measure the top plate thickness. Not sure if that's the clincher or not but that certainly could be useful information.


Hey Zilch

"If the E140 hybrid produces more or better midbass than the "real" 2235H (not sayin' it does, yet, mind y'all), then trading off some of the low bass response may be a reasonable compromise....'

Use a 2225 with the 2235 kit and leave out the mass ring. Now you have a 2234 which gets you almost just that with higher sensitivity to boot. Problem is with hybrids you don't know what you have and the more "hybrids" the more corrupted the drivers will be down the line. Sure you are free to do what you want but why screw around when there are other options that will get you what you want and still keep the drivers stock.

Rob:)

[Robh3606]

Hey Bo

Here's one for you. When I went to get an E-145 frame reconned I had the guy behind the counter tell me to use a 2225 kit. I was Huh???? What about the frame extension and the thicker top plate. "Oh well the frame extension comes off and the it will work just fine" Yeah but then it won't be an E-145 " You won't be able to tell the difference" Hows that for scarry. Wonder how many other's fell for it???

Rob:)

[boputnam]

My point should not be mooted by some sophmoric sword-dueling smilies (re: this -> :duel: which Zilch edited out of his post, after my reply. FWIW, I loath the post-facto editing capabilities here, you weenies... )

WhenEVER something is posted that is opinion we do ourselves and our tribe the duty of posting it as such. Clearly. Too easily things posted here by long-time (or other...) contributors can be mis-construed as JBL-accepted, JBL-endorsed practice.

That is all. Carry on...

[scott fitlin]

Hey Bo

Here's one for you. When I went to get an E-145 frame reconned I had the guy behind the counter tell me to use a 2225 kit. I was Huh???? What about the frame extension and the thicker top plate. "Oh well the frame extension comes off and the it will work just fine" Yeah but then it won't be an E-145 " You won't be able to tell the difference" Hows that for scarry. Wonder how many other's fell for it???

Rob:)Rob, where did you go to get the E-145 reconed that the guy told you to use a 2225 kit? Was this in Farmingdale?

[Zilch]

Black = 2235H
Orchid = E140 w/2235 cone
Tangerine = 2234H

I'm keepin' my 30 Hz, thank you.... ;)

[Robh3606]

"Rob, where did you go to get the E-145 reconed that the guy told you to use a 2225 kit? Was this in Farmingdale?"

Bingo!!

Rob:applaud:

[scott fitlin]

"Rob, where did you go to get the E-145 reconed that the guy told you to use a 2225 kit? Was this in Farmingdale?"

Bingo!!

Rob:applaud:The one and only ASP, I knew it, hadda be, no other shop would have ever told you that!

:)

[Robh3606]

"Black = 2235H
Orchid = E140 w/2235 cone
Tangerine = 2234H

I'm keepin' my 30 Hz, thank you.... http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/wink.gif"

Cool!!!

What do they look like driven with 1 watt without normalizing them so you can see the difference in sensitivities??

Rob:)

[Robh3606]

"The one and only ASP, I knew it, hadda be, no other shop would have ever told you that!

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif"

Which is why I will never use them or reccomend them.

Rob:)

[scott fitlin]

"The one and only ASP, I knew it, hadda be, no other shop would have ever told you that!

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif"

Which is why I will never use them or reccomend them.

Rob:)You could have called me! I would have told you, and saved you the trip!

That shop is over and done with! FWIW, ASP was good when they were in Hempstead, you know how long ago is that?

:D

[Robh3606]

Hello Scott

I think about 2 years now??
Rob:)

[edgewound]

My point should not be mooted by some sophmoric sword-dueling smilies.

WhenEVER something is posted that is opinion we do ourselves and our tribe the duty of posting it as such. Clearly. Too easily things posted here by long-time (or other...) contributors can be mis-construed as JBL-accepted, JBL-endorsed practice.

That is all. Carry on...

The fact is that the interchangeability is in the JBL Authorized Service Center Manual....and is accepted by the factory....otherwise it wouldn't be in there. Miss Orchid(Giskard) and Lancer obviously have past and somewhat current ties to the factory, and these two gentleman point out the differences of the interchange as well. UNFORTUNATELY....there are Authorized Servicers that haven't bothered to read the manual and find out these details for themselves and figure anything with a 4" voice coil can be shared throughout the JBL family of drivers. There's plenty of good accurate info in this forum for people to peruse that has come from JBL factory documents....Zilch has some very good points about the availability of some of this stuff and what can be accomplished as long as you have good info....and the right pieces. There's an idiot at anywhere and anytime that will tell you what you want to hear....so those that know here will share here....I've seen it....and I've learned, also.

Thanks

BTW Bo...I justed quoted your post cause it was convenient:)

[Zilch]

What do they look like driven with 1 watt without normalizing them so you can see the difference in sensitivities??Well, here they are at 150 Watts:

[scott fitlin]

Hello Scott

I think about 2 years now??
Rob:)They moved to Farmingdale back in the late 80,s maybe early nineties!

For a while, when Dave owned it, and still cared about the buisiness, it was good. But the last few years, Dave would always complain to me all he wanted to do was retire. Finally somebody bought the buisiness from him, and that was that!

It was also the end of the shop altogether!

I called them once last year, I asked about 2240 recones, the guys say he can get them brand new! Really, you dont say? I also mentioned JBL doesnt make the 2240 anymore! he tells O YES THEY DO! Calls me back a day later to tell me, NO They dont, you were right! BUT, he says, I can recone them. Ok, how much? $350.00!!!!! Ouch, WTF? Well, brand new recone kit with TIT-TAHN-YUM dome he tells me! What? TIT-TAHN-YUM dome? What dome, this is a woofer, not a comp driver!

I just hung up the phone!

P.S. Sorry for the thread hi-jack!

:dont-know

[Robh3606]

"Well, here they are at 150 Watts:"

Thanks Zilch

Without the normalization you can see what's really going on. None of them loose that 30Hz although the E-140 hybrid has the most real loss from 30Hz and up. The 2234 would be heard to loose the most lowend when actually there is a 50Hz and up increase in sensitivity without the mass ring. You can clearly see the predicted change in balance with the E-140 core and a 2235 kit. Damn I guess this software really does work!!!

Rob:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rob,

Here is the correct expression of the T/L posted here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75757&postcount=2

Red is stock 2235H, Green = T=1.35*M and updated parameters it effects on the normalised response.

[toddalin]

Hello Toddalin

Can you do a side shot or measure the top plate thickness. Not sure if that's the clincher or not but that certainly could be useful information.


Rob:)

No, they are ebay shots. I just don't know if the seller really knows what it is with no foil.

[Lancer]

You can clearly see the predicted change in balance with the E-140 core and a 2235 kit. Damn I guess this software really does work!!!

Rob:)Yes, you can see the tilt with the more powerful motor as would be expected. Some people won't care. Other people will. I personally did not like the sound of the hybrid in the 4430. I guess my point is that one can do it right like David intended or one can do it however the hell they feel like doing it.

BTW, using BB6P check out the difference in recommended loading between the stock 2235H and the hybrid.

According to Keele, the stock 2235H should be maximally flat in a 4.5 cu ft volume tuned to 29 Hz. The hybrid should be maximally flat in a 2.5 cu ft volume tuned to 35 Hz.

[Crash]

Fact is, 2235H's are becoming harder to come by. Thrashed E140's and 2225's are being replaced with 2226H, and are thus more common. With 2235 recone kits still reasonably priced, it's resonable to consider making 2235H's out of 'em.

You aren't getting it. You can't make a 2235H with an E130 or E140 core. You can't make an E130 or E140 with a 2235H core.

If the E140 hybrid produces more or better midbass than the "real" 2235H (not sayin' it does, yet, mind y'all), then trading off some of the low bass response may be a reasonable compromise.

I'll load a pair of each into 4430's and we can A/B 'em. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/yes.gif

I'm going to stick with the knowledge that David knew how to build a better 4430 than you do. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/wink.gif I'm also going to stick with the knowledge that JBL knew exactly what they were doing when they added that one eighth extra thickness to the E120, E130 and E140 magnet rather than saving money and using the existing 2202 or 2235 cores..

[Lancer]

Crash?

Come over here and let me give you a noogie.

[Crash]

My rocket launcher would blow you and you're lance straight to hell bad boy... :coolness:

[Lancer]

Bring it! :nutz:

[Crash]

I'll let that bag of bones you call a horse live long enough to make the trip to the glue factory. :nanana:

[Lancer]

:duel:

Crash is like only the worst bot in the Arena. :barf:
I guess that's why she's your avatar. :D

[Crash]

:argue:
I use the Crash skin. It's not a reflection of my skilz.

[boputnam]

BTW Bo...I justed quoted your post cause it was convenient:)No harm, no foul.

My point is/was:

UNFORTUNATELY....there are Authorized Servicers that haven't bothered to read the manual and find out these details for themselves and figure anything with a 4" voice coil can be shared throughout the JBL family of drivers. Bless you, gentle reader... :)

[boputnam]

er, uh...

Hey Crash - uh, what YOU wearing...? :D

[Crash]

er, uh...

Hey Crash - uh, what YOU wearing...? :DBoring, yet practical. :rotfl:

[Crash]

Don't let Lancer's Knight attire fool you, it's rented. Here's what he really wears :applaud:

[spkrman57]

You made my morning complete just reading this thread!


Ron :applaud:

[scott fitlin]

Don't let Lancer's Knight attire fool you, it's rented. Here's what he really wears :applaud:Dude, you gotta switch to Bud Light! Its less filling!

:)

[spkrman57]

I have come to the conclusion that there is a "purist" approach to a solution, and then there are others willing to compromise a driver design in the pursuit of a driver they feel they might not be able to obtain otherwise.

I too have wrestled with the notion of whether to "Franken-driver" or not.

The price of currently obtainable JBL drivers is not pocket change to most of us and we look at alternatives to solve our dilemma on how to get a driver we can't afford, or have problems procuring.

I have Mike Bakers E130 core reconed as 2225, for me it is not a problem as I know the Franken-woofer will have limited output below 100hz, but it will also have a lower Qts which is better for use as a horn driver. Plus I have a 2242 sub to cover the bottom end.


I think with the interest in the JBL 2235H driver that maybe JBL or a consignment factory could maybe put a run of a few thousand units to be made available to us. I wish I had known about them when they were available direct from JBL!

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/blah.gif http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/blah.gif http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/blah.gif
Ron

[Earl K]

- Oops ! This is the extremely mislabelled "E140 i= 2225" thread that I had previously avoided getting involved with.
- So ; ( after realizing that this entire thread is about "how to create a properly balanced 2235H " ) I've deleted my inappropriate & misplaced info on creating hybrids .
- FWIW ( at this late date ) ; I'd even avoid using alnico cores , even if they are "technically reconable" with the 2235 kit.

:)

[spkrman57]

Earl,

I am having the E-140's reconed to E-130's. The voice coil/gap on the E-130 is .28" according to my feeble memory. That means that the coil stays in the gap most of the time for most efficiency.

Not to mention 105db/watt added to what the gain of the horn might be(up to 6db depending on horn/bandwidth required).

I myself do not recone at all, I am happier to send it out to be done and not worry about it.
:bouncy:
The midbass horn is Bruce Edgar's 100hz model. I would have had it sooner, but Bruce had a accident and lost a few digits in a saw accident due to "kickback"!

AA forum (high efficiency speakers) has the post by Bruce describing the accident.

By the way, I am looking for response from 100hz to 800hz using the E-130 in the midbass horn. Should not be a problem and will mesh well with my midrange drivers which are rated at 115db efficiency with only minor attenuation.

Ron

[spkrman57]

I know there will always be some friction here and there regarding issues that arise concerning the different topics discussed here.

I am happy in getting the educational merit and bypassing the flame wars.

:(

Ron

[Mr. Widget]

JBL has gone to the trouble to produce a wide range of drivers for many applications... why mess around with their success?

Years ago I had a pair of 2220s and wanted more bass... I had K140 cones dropped in and used a paper dust cap. I was 18 and couldn't afford to buy a new pair of 2205As... my franken woofers were OK, but they sure as hell weren't the 2205As I wanted either. Now days with eBay... wait a week and virtually any woofer you could want is available.

I don't get it... is it the hope that you will stumble upon the winning combination that no one else has tried before? Buy a lottery ticket, your odds of outstanding success are about the same and it only costs a buck.


Widget

[Zilch]

I don't get it....Simple really.

I have a pair of dead E140's I got for cheap, or blew myself and replaced with 2226H so it won't happen again.

I could sell them for $25 each on eBay, OR

I can spend $158 apiece and recone as E140 and sell them on eBay for about $100 each,

OR, I can spend $156 apiece and recone to 2235H and get some more usable bass performance out of them.

Yeah, they won't be REAL 2235's, but those cost more like $200 apiece used, and substantially more new, if JBL even has them....

[Mr. Widget]

or... sell them on eBay and probably get something closer to $50 ea. and buy blown 2225s for about the same and recone those and have the real deal...:D

But what I was really mystified by was the desire to seek out franken woofers which is what Earl seems to be talking about.



Widget

[Zilch]

I paid $100 for the 2225 pair, and $50 for the E140 pair.

Recone performance results soon.

Fearlessly, I will also report LE15A and LE15B/2216 performance.... :p

[Lancer]

Grrrrr

If you are going to insist on using the 2235H cone in the E130 or E140 basket then add an additional 35 grams of mass. The 2235H is normally used in a 5.0 cubic foot volume. The hybrid driver will require a 4.0 cubic foot volume. Keep Fb the same, bandwidth should be very similar. The hybrid driver should end up being ~ 0.6 dB less efficient across the bandwidth.

[Zilch]

Thank you Sir Lancer.

Somehow KNEW we'd get the solution, ultimately.... ;)

[Lancer]

Whatever

[Lancer]

or... sell them on eBay and probably get something closer to $50 ea. and buy blown 2225s for about the same and recone those and have the real deal...:D

But what I was really mystified by was the desire to seek out franken woofers which is what Earl seems to be talking about.



WidgetIt just hit me... it's like talking to a grown up velociraptor...

[Thom]

I ran across a voice coil part number list that showed the same number for a 2205 as 2215, 145 and on. I've never seen a 2205 does it have a thick head plate or was this a misprint. ( I'm assuming it can only be one or the other) also earlier in this thread it showes E145 and K145 not being interchangable. I realize the ceramic magnet is marginaly stronger) I know this gets done (at least I've been told so) whats the difference and is the K kit still around? Also I've yet to see the 135A listed anywhere I wouldn't care but I own two, I'm going to refoam them and who knows. It's sort of like you took a d130 and tried to make an LE14 out of it (sort of ). Some day would certainly be soon enough. Thank you.

[Thom]

I take it from reading this that if you used D130 or k130 frames as opposed to E
that you should be able to make a legitamate 2235. 9If it has spent it's life in somwones living room, otherwise it may need remaged) The alnico has 1.2 not 1.3 and as I understand it with the alnico you don't need the ring. Now, since this is so obvious to me, Their's probably something bib as a house that I have missed. So if someone could point out my error while maintaning the attitude that the rest of the country think we all have out here I'd appreciate it. Also in literature you can find LE15A with 1.2 and also with .9 each with the large mag assy and the thick head plate. Did this really happer or do writers consider themselfs artists and as such take licence now and again.

[grumpy]

as I understand it with the alnico you don't need the ring.

Can I assume you're talking about the mass ring? and if so, why would the magnet
material itself make any difference in whether or not the ring is needed to achieve
a specific electro-mechanical spec? :blink:

(if not the mass ring, then it's not at all clear to me what you're asking)

-grumpy

[Thom]

Because (and while it seems obvious, I didn't think of it, too many things that are obvious to me are at least in dispute) alnico conducts and acts as a short itself. They didn't start experiencing the problem that they corrected with the ring until they went to ferrite. (if I can remember things like that why don't I know where my pen is?)
We may not be talking about the same ring because as I use the search funtion I see a chart of rings of different weights. so I was (damn there's more I don't know about these things than I thought there even was to know) I read that there was a flux build up under certain (certain means I don't remember what) that caused a distortion that they hah not had with alnico and this was fixed with a shorting ring. I assumud there was only one ring but if this is actually mass added ti the moving assy then the mag material probably would be irelivent. Damn, I rebuilt my own auto trans in high school (had to having a packand trans worked on cost too much) and I had hardley even worked on a car, but you could get manuals and parts. Not quite the same here.

[grumpy]

Ah. Magnetic structure shorting ring. Nothing to do with the mass ring. Nevermind. -grumpy

[ivica]

"[QUOTE=Thom;137267]Because ...... alnico conducts and acts as a short itself.
They didn't start experiencing the problem that they corrected with the ring until they went to ferrite. .....
We may not be talking about the same ring because as I use the search funtion I see a chart of rings of different weights. so I was ....
I read that there was a flux build up under certain ..........that caused a distortion that they hah not had with alnico
and this was fixed with a shorting ring. I assumud there was only one ring but if this is actually mass added ti
the moving assy then the mag material probably would be irelivent.}"

I expect that mass-ring reduce HF response and efficiency, but reducing Fs too, extends LF response.

[ivica]

Rob,

Here is the correct expression of the T/L posted here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75757&postcount=2

Red is stock 2235H, Green = T=1.35*M and updated parameters it effects on the normalised response.

but adding about 50gr (under the dust cap) to 2235 cone would help in order to reduce
mid-bass "over efficiency" and would extend ( a few Hz) low-bass in E140 basket with 2235 re-cone kit

[jcrobso]

I ran across a voice coil part number list that showed the same number for a 2205 as 2215, 145 and on. I've never seen a 2205 does it have a thick head plate or was this a misprint. ( I'm assuming it can only be one or the other) also earlier in this thread it showes E145 and K145 not being interchangable. I realize the ceramic magnet is marginaly stronger) I know this gets done (at least I've been told so) whats the difference and is the K kit still around? Also I've yet to see the 135A listed anywhere I wouldn't care but I own two, I'm going to refoam them and who knows. It's sort of like you took a d130 and tried to make an LE14 out of it (sort of ). Some day would certainly be soon enough. Thank you.
Both have the cloth surround and Alinco magnets.

[Robh3606]

This is a 5 year old thread?? Bottom line is use the correct kits in the correct frames and be done with it.

Rob:)