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Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 10:34 AM
Hi all

I have been buying/flipping alot of stuff over the last few months to build up some funds for upgrading my amps to the next level. I have recently purchased 3 Boulders. 2 x 102AE's and 1 x 250AE. These will drive the 10"'s up. The odds of finding 500AE's for the bottoms is pretty slim. I was lucky to find the three I have.

My question is the dual 15's. Does anyone have a suggestion? I am leaning toward K1's or K2's. I have also thought of using the Perreaux's I have access too but am not sure? I can buy an almost new K2 and a new K1 for the price of a Perreaux.

Anything else I should be looking at?

Budget is the 1000 to 1500 range.

Ken

scott fitlin
11-03-2005, 10:39 AM
Before you buy the K series, you should get your hands on one to listen to on your speakers first! Its a good amp, but it does have a somewhat different sound than a traditional amplifier!

Im not saying its bad or good, just different! FWIW, my neighbor uses a K, it seems to make decent bass, but I dont care for it in the midband or HF!

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 10:49 AM
Im not saying its bad or good, just different! FWIW, my neighbor uses a K, it seems to make decent bass, but I dont care for it in the midband or HF!

Yes, you have confirmed what I have already been told. Its been suggested to me that the only thing it does well is bass. Apparently its quite harsh on the upper side. Unfortunately, I don't have one to borrow and would hate to buy one just to return it.

I have heard great things about QSC and know BO is a huge fan. They had a short lived line called "Studio Reference Series" SRA, but dropped it due to a lack of interest. A few of those are kicking around in the 12-1500 range. The Studio that was replacing all the Perreaux have switched to them, and although the jury is still out they were quite impressed.

Ken

Valentin
11-03-2005, 10:55 AM
The studio ref are graet amps and since thy have been discontinued the price is realy atractive

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 11:00 AM
The studio ref are graet amps and since thy have been discontinued the price is realy atractive

I have never heard one, but they say it sounds exactly the same on the low end as the K series but much nicer on the mids and highs. There is a Ref 1 on Ebay for 1800 right now. I am tempted but all I need is a bass amp.

Appreciate your time.

Ken

scott fitlin
11-03-2005, 11:01 AM
QSC makes a punchy bottom! I have listened to them, and hear them at several venues!

However, one thing I also notice, and Ive heard mostly the powerlights these days, is they make good bottom, but I dont care for the sound in the mids and highs.

The guys that use QSC like them because they sound good, and are reliable and stable! This counts for alot, reliability!

If you want my opinion, whatever amp you decide to go with, you still have to audition them on your speakers, with music YOU know well!

To me, whats more important than how the amp sounds, is how it integrates with your system, and all the other components in your system! What I mean is you take what your using on mids and highs, the bass has to integrate with this too! This is where im not sure if a Crown K series, or QSC would match tonally with your Boulders!

scott fitlin
11-03-2005, 11:02 AM
I have never heard one, but they say it sounds exactly the same on the low end as the K series but much nicer on the mids and highs. There is a Ref 1 on Ebay for 1800 right now. I am tempted but all I need is a bass amp.

Appreciate your time.

KenI believe the Crown ref would do the job well! Uncolored bass is what youll get!

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 11:13 AM
I believe the Crown ref would do the job well! Uncolored bass is what youll get!


Hmmm. Let me mull this over.

Ken

edgewound
11-03-2005, 01:22 PM
Hi Ken...

Here's a couple other suggestions for pro amps at each end of the technology spectrum. The Ashly FET-2000 or FTX 2001, both fan cooled. Or if you like switching amps, the Stewart audio PA-1000 or PR-1000....1000 watts bridged mono at 4 ohms, 11 pounds, convection cooled. See 'em on eBay occasionally.

scott fitlin
11-03-2005, 01:23 PM
FWIW, you got me to thinking, so I went into my room, and took out a DC-300A, and put a crown CE-4000 into the rack, as I am changing my fifteens so I need more power!

Not for nothing, the level of the TAD woofers comes up to where it should be on the CE-4000, but the other TAD,s in the room, even though not really powered properly, sound better on the DC-300,s! The bass just sounds better, more realistic or something! The BCA output amp sounds cloudy in comparison!

In a home listening enviroment, with speakers of the quality the Westlakes are, you NEED the best possible amplification you can afford! I have absolutely no doubt you can hear whatever you drive your system with, INCLUDING the LF!

All I know is, you can hear the difference!

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 03:41 PM
FWIW, you got me to thinking, so I went into my room, and took out a DC-300A, and put a crown CE-4000 into the rack, as I am changing my fifteens so I need more power!

Not for nothing, the level of the TAD woofers comes up to where it should be on the CE-4000, but the other TAD,s in the room, even though not really powered properly, sound better on the DC-300,s! The bass just sounds better, more realistic or something! The BCA output amp sounds cloudy in comparison!

In a home listening enviroment, with speakers of the quality the Westlakes are, you NEED the best possible amplification you can afford! I have absolutely no doubt you can hear whatever you drive your system with, INCLUDING the LF!

All I know is, you can hear the difference!

Thats interesting...

I appreciate the input/suggestions.

Much to mull over, the budget will have to dictate to a degree.

Will keep you all posted.

PS: The "New" loaner Westlake HRX cards are being delivered by UPS today. I must admit to being more than curious about how they will sound. They have been redesigned to implement their " PE Technology ". These boards have the additional upgrade that isolates all 172 op amps from each other. Thats beyond my understanding but is an extra 1200 on top of the 4700.00 for the boards. I mention the price only for shock value. Although after assembling the boards for Ian M's 5-way design, I have a better understanding of why this custom stuff is through the roof in terms of price.

Ken

Tom Loizeaux
11-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Ken,
I think the Crown Studio Reference amps should be considered. I use some Crown PS-400s, which are older, smaller designs, but similar to the Studio Reference concept. I really like the A+AB design and think they are the best sounding power amps I've heard.
Also, in Pro Sound, the Crest amps are considered the best in solid bass reproduction. Though they are owned by Peavy now, the Pro line of Crests seem to still be great bass amps.

Tom

edgewound
11-03-2005, 04:22 PM
Hey Ken,

Look at this on eBay. Looks to be a nice deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Ashly-MFA6000-Professional-Dual-Monoaural_W0QQitemZ5823532352QQcategoryZ3280QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

You might also consider Parasound...like the HCA 2200 in bridged mono at 1000 watts at 4 ohms . You could probably find 2 of these for your budget.

edgewound
11-03-2005, 04:56 PM
Here's another....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hot-House-Two-Thousand-top-o-the-line-Power-Amp-NR_W0QQitemZ7361571310QQcategoryZ23787QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

Sorry Ken....my compulsive side is driving me now.

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 05:12 PM
Some great ideas, but fan noise will concern me?

Ken

boputnam
11-03-2005, 05:15 PM
...but fan noise will concern me?Dood, turn it UP!! :rotfl:

Or, move the amp rack into the pantry... :p

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 05:18 PM
Dood, turn it UP!! :rotfl:

Or, move the amp rack into the pantry... :p


From the likes of you I was hoping for something more constructive!!! :bouncy:

Nice to hear from you Bo.

Ken

edgewound
11-03-2005, 05:25 PM
Some great ideas, but fan noise will concern me?

Ken

The Parasound and Stewart PA/PR-1000 are convection cooled, but they do get rather warm when racked next to other gear. The Stewart is only 1 rack space.

I guess another nice amp would be a Chevin Research but kinda pricey if you can find them.

edgewound
11-03-2005, 06:04 PM
Here's another link to used proaudio amps if you didn''t already know.

http://www.hticsproaudio.com/used%20pro%20audio%20-%20amplifiers%20for%20sale_1_copy(1).html

norealtalent
11-03-2005, 06:17 PM
FWIW...I've used a number of different Perreauxs for my main system over the last 5 years. Do it once, do it right, and get it over with. Buy the Perreauxs and you'll never look back.:bouncy: Dave

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 06:21 PM
FWIW...I've used a number of different Perreauxs for my main system over the last 5 years. Do it once, do it right, and get it over with. Buy the Perreauxs and you'll never look back.:bouncy: Dave


Thanks for the input. I was very impressed with what I heard when I looked at them. Unfortunately they did not have them hooked up to the mains but a small pair of nearfield JBL's. They sounded awsome.

Great Input.

Guess what UPS just delivered. Look for the "New HRX Cards" thread in a bit. Let me try em out and take a couple of photos. Damn, I wish a few of you could come buy and help me judge these!

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
11-03-2005, 06:45 PM
Dood, turn it UP!! :rotfl:

Or, move the amp rack into the pantry... :p

Oh yeah,

Melt the butter, I am sure Julie would appreciate a full rack in the pantry!

Ian Mackenzie
11-03-2005, 06:47 PM
Thanks for the input. I was very impressed with what I heard when I looked at them. Unfortunately they did not have them hooked up to the mains but a small pair of nearfield JBL's. They sounded awsome.

Great Input.

Guess what UPS just delivered. Look for the "New HRX Cards" thread in a bit. Let me try em out and take a couple of photos. Damn, I wish a few of you could come buy and help me judge these!

Ken

Ken,

I recommend getting senior management approval on the 500 Boulder model ..then your set for Life.

Ian

SureFire
11-03-2005, 07:21 PM
Ken,

Try a Adcom 5800. It's a Nelson Pass design. It's capable of Subterranean Bass and the mid's and hi's are pretty smooth for a solid state amp. I used mine on Infinity RS-1B woofer towers from 240hz down, real house shakers. I believe that amp weighs about 50 pounds, LOTS of reserve power. I had a DC-300A on the towers but it couldn't come close to the solid low end control of the adcom. I got rid of the Infinity's but kept the Adcom. Never know when I may need the power. Now with Altecs (19's) and L-300's & my Hartsfield project I'm using several tube amps.

Brian:)

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 07:34 PM
Ken,

I recommend getting senior management approval on the 500 Boulder model ..then your set for Life.

Ian

No doubt the best idea of all.

I'm workin on it.

Ken

scott fitlin
11-03-2005, 08:03 PM
You have access to the Perreaux 8000B? This wouldnt be enough power for your low end?

I have to agree with Noreal, the Perreaux sounds terrific!

I love Crown, and ive heard the Macro Ref many times, its a stellar amp on the low end, but fan noise is an issue for home use, but the Perreaux is all the way there! You know what I mean?

And, the macro reference may need its own 20 or 30 amp outlet, it requires juice!

My experience with Perreaux was in a club in Miami, where I DJed alot, they had three monster sized 8000,s and they ran the subs, I loved the way they sounded!

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 08:26 PM
You have access to the Perreaux 8000B? This wouldnt be enough power for your low end?

I have to agree with Noreal, the Perreaux sounds terrific!

My experience with Perreaux was in a club in Miami, where I DJed alot, they had three monster sized 8000,s and they ran the subs, I loved the way they sounded!

The 8000C is 500 watts a side at 8 ohms.
Power Output

500Wrms per channel continuous both channels driven into 8Ω from 20Hz to 20kHz at no more

than 0.15% Total Harmonic Distortion.

900Wrms per channel into 4Ω

That is not quite as much as I am running now but 900 watts is plenty?

Ken

boputnam
11-03-2005, 08:27 PM
From the likes of you I was hoping for something more constructive!!! :bouncy:Dang it, yer right.

I forgot the laundry room option, or in the basement. I shoulda thought about dear Julie... :p

scott fitlin
11-03-2005, 08:56 PM
900Wrms per channel into 4Ω

That is not quite as much as I am running now but 900 watts is plenty?

Ken450w per woofer isnt enough? How big is your listening room? How much low end SPL are you trying to create? You have a house? Or a mini disco?

The macro ref will give 1200 watts a side @ 4 ohms, I cant see you really needing more than 600 a woofer, and I kind of feel thats alot for home listening!

You say you have more than 900 a side now, how does it sound? Are you happy with the way your system sounds?

Sounds like you could use two more Westlakes, and cover the room equally, and not have to push what you have so hard!

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 09:12 PM
450w per woofer isnt enough?

Sorry Scott, The 8000C is 900 watts a side at 4 ohms.

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
11-04-2005, 01:56 AM
No doubt the best idea of all.

I'm workin on it.

Ken

Well you could spent 1/2 that and get it wrong, then spend another $xxxxx and it right.

Akira
11-04-2005, 08:58 AM
there is only one choice...the choice you have now.
my philosophy has always been to use a single brand of amp. they all have identical gain structure and sonic characteristics throughout.
my advice to the guy with the badest rig, ever in a house...keep it pure. :cool:

scott fitlin
11-04-2005, 09:04 AM
there is only one choice...the choice you have now.
my philosophy has always been to use a single brand of amp. they all have identical gain structure and sonic characteristics throughout.Theres truth in this too!

Ken Pachkowsky
11-04-2005, 09:09 AM
Well, some great input guys.

I must tell you I was shocked to get a PM yesterday from a member that has a Boulder 500AE and he was willing to part with it. I do believe I will go that route and the whole system will be Boulder powered. Now, how do I get this around Julie.......I am dead meat:banghead:

Ken

scott fitlin
11-04-2005, 09:13 AM
Now, how do I get this around Julie.......I am dead meat:banghead:

KenVery simple! You take Julie to the jewelers, and buy her a something equally nice, and expensive!

Maybe a nice diamond bracelet!

:)

edgewound
11-04-2005, 09:15 AM
Well, some great input guys.

I must tell you I was shocked to get a PM yesterday from a member that has a Boulder 500AE and he was willing to part with it. I do believe I will go that route and the whole system will be Boulder powered. Now, how do I get this around Julie.......I am dead meat:banghead:

Ken

Maybe you have a friend that is a jeweler, and you could trade watts for Karats?

Ken Pachkowsky
11-04-2005, 11:09 AM
The Boulder 500AE is only 250 watts a side at 4 ohms. I don't play at real high SPL's. The ideal scenario would be 2 500AE's strapped mono.

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
11-04-2005, 11:28 AM
The Boulder 500AE is only 250 watts a side at 4 ohms. I don't play at real high SPL's. The ideal scenario would be 2 500AE's strapped mono.

Ken

Ken,

What are the other amp ratings you are using?

Ian

Ken Pachkowsky
11-04-2005, 11:49 AM
Ken,

What are the other amp ratings you are using?

Ian


Ian

The 102AE's are only 60 watts a side at 8 ohms
The 250AE's are 75
The 500AE is 150

Boulder tells me they are seriously under rated.

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
11-04-2005, 12:10 PM
Okay.

"Duke" Spinner
11-04-2005, 02:34 PM
have you actually listened to a K model ...???

they have the Studio Ref front end, w/ the BCA amplifier ...

Akira
11-05-2005, 08:09 AM
Very simple! You take Julie to the jewelers, and buy her a something equally nice, and expensive!

Maybe a nice diamond bracelet!

:)
yah, but now the cost of the amp is approaching the cost of a car!

scott fitlin
11-05-2005, 08:19 AM
yah, but now the cost of the amp is approaching the cost of a car!Good point Akira! Ken, up the ante! The diamond tennis bracelet, and a vacation in Hawaii, too!

:D