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mvaldes
11-02-2005, 05:21 PM
I'm trying to make by myself the cards (52.5130) for my 4430
I'm not sure about which kind of cap and resistor I must use.
Any suggestion ? I would use the "better sounding" components
Of course I need also info on where to buy these components

Robh3606
11-02-2005, 05:34 PM
It's in the manual.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Vintage%20JBL-UREI%20Electronics/JBL-5235%20manual.pdf

Rob:)

Ken Pachkowsky
11-02-2005, 06:05 PM
I'm trying to make by myself the cards (52.5130) for my 4430
I'm not sure about which kind of cap and resistor I must use.
Any suggestion ? I would use the "better sounding" components
Of course I need also info on where to buy these components

I will have a look at what you need and if I have them I will send them to you. Just cover the postage and make a 10.00 donation to the site.

Sound fair?

Also send your address in a PM.

Ken

Ken Pachkowsky
11-02-2005, 06:52 PM
Hi

Couple of odd values in the caps so I will send you a link to Mouser or Allied with all the part numbers you need. Give me 24 hours though, as I have a busy evening and day tomorrow.

Ken

mvaldes
11-02-2005, 11:55 PM
Hi Ken

it sounds great.
I'll wait for your info


PS. donation is not a problem. I'll be pleased to do something for this site that provided me a lot of help


Michele

Ken Pachkowsky
11-03-2005, 12:34 AM
I will look up the part numbers and post them here.

Ken

mvaldes
11-04-2005, 02:43 PM
Hi Ken,

have you find the parts or the parts number ?
can't wait to test my new toy

Ken Pachkowsky
11-04-2005, 03:03 PM
Hi Ken,

have you find the parts or the parts number ?
can't wait to test my new toy

Sorry, let me do, it right now.

Ken

Ken Pachkowsky
11-04-2005, 04:16 PM
Get these at www.mouser.com (http://www.mouser.com/)



Enjoy



JBL 52-5130



C1 0.039uf R1 11K

C2 0.082uf R2 11K

C3 0.0013uf R3 11K

C4 0.01uf R4 13K

C5 Jump R5 Empty

C6 Jump R6 Empty



140-PF2A393F X2 = .039

140-PF2A823F X2 =.082

140-PF2A122F X2 =.0012 (SUB FOR .0013)

140-PF2A102F X2 =.01



Dale ¼ watt 1% resistors



71-CCF55-11K X6 = 11K resistors

71-CCF55-13K X2 = 13K resistors



There you go

mvaldes
11-05-2005, 11:50 AM
Thank you very much Ken

I've just made the order to mouser.

Just one more question. I'm also seeking for the connector that had to be mounted on the PCB of the 52.5130 card. I can't find in the moser catalog. Maybe I'm not serching right

Have any suggestion ?

Ken Pachkowsky
11-05-2005, 12:05 PM
Thank you very much Ken

I've just made the order to mouser.

Just one more question. I'm also seeking for the connector that had to be mounted on the PCB of the 52.5130 card. I can't find in the moser catalog. Maybe I'm not serching right

Have any suggestion ?

A little confused here. Did you make your own PCB's? If not, where are the connectors that were on the cards?

Do you need the male or female?

I am going by memory here but the male is on the main board and the female on the filter boards?

If you have to find connectors for the filter boards. I thing we can figure something out.

Ken

rloggie
11-05-2005, 12:29 PM
Ken, You've got a pm.

mvaldes
11-05-2005, 03:20 PM
yes, I'm making a new PCB

I've bought the xover with the cards for 500hz cutting . These boards have different PCB layout from the 52.5130
Now I'm making two new PCB in order to make the 52.5130 cards by myself
I don't want to take out the connector from old card, so I need to find some new ones
The one that I need is the female, since male in on MB
I thought you already know a part number for this connector too
Sorry if I make you getting confused. Probably I didn't explained well what I was going to do

Zilch
11-05-2005, 03:40 PM
Molex 0.156" PCB Connector, 6 pins.

Mouser #538-09-52-3063

Look right?

mvaldes
11-05-2005, 03:57 PM
yes, this is the one I need

Thank very much

Ken Pachkowsky
11-05-2005, 04:48 PM
Molex 0.156" PCB Connector, 6 pins.

Mouser #538-09-52-3063

Look right?

Yo Zilch, thanks for helping out. I just got back.

Ken

mvaldes
11-29-2005, 08:55 AM
well... thanks to the very precious help you gave me, I've made the 52-5130 card for my 4430.:applaud: :applaud:
I followed the schematic and photos of the PCB found here in some other threads. Thanks again.
I now just want to check if I've made a correct job or not
I'm posting here two images showing the Low pass and High pass exit of the 5235 xover whit my 52-5130 clone cards
Just want to know if someone have the stock cards and can compare the result

boputnam
11-29-2005, 09:27 AM
Michelle...

I don't know what you're searching for, but that crossover point looks a bit high at ~1,700 Hz...

I also think the slope on the Hi pass looks far too gentle - but again, don't know what you were designing for.

mvaldes
11-29-2005, 10:07 AM
this is exactly what I noticed.
Looking at the RTA I've posted here, the lowpass of the 5130 clone card seem tuned at 1Khz with 18db slope (in fact, at 2Khz is about -80db in the RTA scale), and this should be Ok...I guess...
But the Hipass it's little bit strange.
This is the reason why I'm asking if somebody that have the original 52-5130 from stock have ever noticed that or if can make this simple test with the RTA
Maybe I've made some mistake on my clone cards...

Robh3606
11-29-2005, 10:15 AM
Hmm

Those outputs look a bit strange but for the high end you have a series 20uf cap and the compensation in the network as well. That tailors what the drivers actually see. Not sure if the voltage drives previously posted were the raw output from the crossover or the entire network. I would guess they are the entire network. What does the curve look like at the driver with a dummy load across the network??? If that matches the posted drives I would think you would be fine.

Also remember these are CD horns so you want the drive down low attenuated. The curve should basically be the inverse of the roll off the driver has above 2k or so.

Rob:)

Zilch
11-29-2005, 12:40 PM
I have the cards, crossover, passive network, drivers, horns.

Tell me what you want to see.

It's unclear what you're showing there. It looks like the 5235 only without the passive network before the drivers? Or is that 4430's HF and LF separately playing with the 5235 driving the "ext" inputs of 4430?

If so, the HF shouldn't be climbing like that.

[Nice display, tho.... :) ]

Giskard posted the 5235/4430 voltage drives early in the Q&D 4430 thread, IIRC....

mvaldes
11-29-2005, 04:21 PM
what I posted here is just what I get from the High and Low exit of the 5235 crossover driven with pink noise.
I'm driving the 5235 with Pink noise generator and then sending the 5235 output to the RTA. The two images are captured into two different moments. First one is just the Low pass (low exit on 5235) and second one is just the high pass (high exit on 5235)
As i wrote before, I made by myself the cards for the 4430, but before using these homemade cards I want to be sure that I made them correctly

Zilch....if you can, please try to make the same test, so I can see if my cards works correctly.

I'm sorry if I haven't explained so well what I need, but English is not my first language, as you certainly understood....:o:

Zilch
11-29-2005, 05:10 PM
No problem. I'll reconfigure some stuff and make it happen. Not gonna be as pretty as yours, tho.... :p

Zilch
11-30-2005, 12:11 AM
O.K., here they are. That's my 26 Hz bump filter at the bottom of the LF there. It's documented in the early pages of Q&D 4430's also.

[Looks like it's working. :p ]

I'd say your HF is wrong.

Curves are here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1159

See also posts 93 and 99 here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3838&page=7&pp=15

Hope this helps....

mvaldes
11-30-2005, 08:59 AM
Thank you very much Zilch

.....I've double-checked all things but I can't figure out what's wrong
I've used the same schematic and components list that Giskard posted in the thread you suggested me to look at.

As a guideline, I've also used the PCB photo posted here
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=980&highlight=52-5130
I really don't know what to do....
Zilch...., have you used for your measurement the 52-5130 card from stock ?
The RTA curve you posted here is just the 5235 output or it's the combination of 5235 + 4430 passive crossover ?
Sorry if I asking that, but just want to be sure of this and try to understand what's wrong with my cloned card

Zilch
11-30-2005, 10:20 AM
I did what you described. RTA out to crossover in (both channels). Crossover high out (both channels) to RTA in. Display line in (L+R).

Repeat for crossover low out.

No passive, amp or speakers connected.

These are factory cards, yes, all original, which Robh kindly swapped with me. That's them in the pics in the link you provided, most likely.

I cross-checked the drawings in the several links, and they all seem the same.

Mine are down 3 dB at 1250 Hz, and seem to match the posted curves. Yours are already down at 20 kHz. Check your capacitor and resistor values. C4, R4 are the HF, looks like, 0.01 uF and 13 K. You have 0.001 uF in there maybe?

Ken Pachkowsky
11-30-2005, 10:55 AM
Check your capacitor and resistor values....

Yep, thats all I can think of as well. I am pretty sure you got the right values.

Ken

4313B
11-30-2005, 11:20 AM
The schematics and component values were taken directly from the production drawings. They could be wrong I suppose. One thing I've learned over the years is that JBL has never been real big on proof reading. In fact, I just finished proof reading a new Engineering Design Specification a few weeks ago and notified the author of an error. Mistakes happen.

mvaldes
12-01-2005, 05:07 AM
believe it or not, I've checked several time the value of the capacitor, In particular the ones related to the Highpass section

But, as probably you already know, sometime What You See Is What You Hope....:banghead:
Actually, after the last check, I've found out that the C4 I used was 1nF (0,001uF) not 10nF (0,01uF) has it must be :o:
Zilch....you thought was right :applaud:
Here is the new RTA plot. It look much better now
Thank you very much guys for your suggestions and patience.

4313B
12-01-2005, 05:34 AM
Good.

I try to be as meticulous as possible with the data and schematics.

mvaldes
12-01-2005, 05:43 AM
Good.

I try to be as meticulous as possible with the data and schematics.

Giskard,
your posts regarding schematics of 5235 cards has been very valuable for me while making this clone cards
Thank you very much for this

Ken Pachkowsky
12-01-2005, 10:06 AM
Yep, that will do it. I am glad you worked it out.

Ken

Zilch
12-01-2005, 10:38 AM
And you got the same curve. Super!

[I can put stuff back together here now....]

Thank you for disclosing the technique of looping the RTA through the crossover to view the performance.

I'm glad to see my bump filter is working properly at the bottom there.

It would have taken me at least a year to figure out how to test it.

Works good! :thmbsup:

[0.001, huh? Heh....]

Zilch
12-01-2005, 10:53 AM
Good.

I try to be as meticulous as possible with the data and schematics.As is apparent to, and much appreciated by, those of us who rely upon them.

Thank you.