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View Full Version : Complete set 4312s w/o cabinets - rebuild project



Fangio
10-20-2005, 10:17 AM
Hi,
what would the market mavens here say about the value of a set like this - all drivers, crossover networks, inner boxes, bassreflex tunnels, full wiring - just the complete monitors without the wood cases.

i'm gonna visit a guy locally tomorrow who sells a complete set of 4312 monitors like that. He said: tweeters original, one LE5-2 and both woofers were reconed, with original sets, claimed to be absolutely as new and unused (high bills from a professional JBL authorized are available).

The cabinets became unusable due to a basement flooding. He wanted to build new ones, but gave up this project cause he uses a triode amp now.

Seems 300 (around 360US$) is much too much, as he didn't get any bids at ebay here recently. Whats more realistic?

Could be a nice winter project. :)
Perhaps there are any DIY instructions here to rebuild the cabinets?

Thanks, F.

Fangio
10-20-2005, 02:31 PM
Sorry, the first try had too many errors: impreciseness, speculation, probably better in the market section..

What is the market value for that full inner life of two 4312 studio monitors, as shown in the picture? And supposed you have, or could get used cabinets for them?

Conditions are:
LE25-2 are 1 original, 1 reconed (original JBL kit)
LE5-12 are both original, a little repair 8mm near one cone border
2213H are both reconed (original JBL kits), from the last series (higher weight of the basket, i was told)

Everything is in perfect working order.
Thanks a lot for hints.

Don C
10-20-2005, 03:21 PM
I think that 360 sounds close to what they would get at auction. But the auctions would have to be separate, and would have to start at a lower cost to attract bidders. Starting an auction at the price that is hoped for as the final price usually gets no bidders.

Fangio
10-22-2005, 12:57 AM
Thanks, Don.

I've seen them yesterday, and i must say they should be worth every cent of what he's asking for them. A beautifull set in really mint condition, one woofer IS new actually. The pic doesn't show that adequate.

Fangio
10-22-2005, 06:37 AM
Btw, a technical question is left: would these sets fit also into all other 431x cabinets (by diameters i would think yes), or are there differences in how they were installed? Thanks

duaneage
10-23-2005, 06:46 AM
I would buy them. I prefer dome tweeters and would substitute them for the cones but that is only my opinion

Fangio
12-03-2005, 10:45 AM
Asked the guy again today, he still has them. Grilles are also included this time, in vgc.

Price is now 300$, not euro.

I'm tempted..

Could also swap with a pair of Bose 901 Serie 1, that i got back from my brother now (he just needed the room). I was the first owner. Good condition also, cloth surrounds all intact, incl. equalizer. But i'm not interested in using them.

Good swap, or not?

Titanium Dome
12-03-2005, 10:49 AM
Good swap for you, maybe not for him, unless he really likes the Bose.

Fangio
12-04-2005, 05:24 AM
Yeah probably he will like them, is a collector but never had Boses before.

My risk is that he doesn't sell the set causeless. The prob is, here are not the US, where you can find some 431x on 3-2-1 every week, or empty cabinets in garage sales. Saw a good pair as basis going last week
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5830888583&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D5830888583%26fvi %3D1
but shipping was so exorbitant, 140$ each. Germany has the largest JBL section on 3-2-1 in europe, but maybe he was searching here since a year or so too, and lost patience now..

duaneage
12-04-2005, 05:51 AM
I assume you don't have a place, tools or time to make the boxes, and that is a shame. I would have bought them all already and be cutting wood right now. Perhaps another forum member in europe could help you out???

Fangio
12-09-2005, 06:17 AM
I would have bought them all already and be cutting wood right now. Perhaps another forum member in europe could help you out???
:applaud:
Thanks duaneage, i'd prefer to give them some original boxes again, as i'm generally more in restoration interested, than in (new)building cabinets. Also i know my limits in time, and craftsmanship.

Uhm, couldn't come back to this thread with empty hands again:
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc023532ub.jpg

Got a drawing of the cabinets too, no detailed plans to consider a rebuild though, but also some bills from Audiopro Heilbronn (not the cheapest adress), about 530 Euro. Anyway, i'll continue the search for a while, this bundle is having a wishful look for new housings, on the big auction house, and at other local sources through my eyes.

To be honest, i haven't bought something less reasonable since a longer time. My L166s are in the same league, it would make more sense to search for bigger jbl's to exceed my experiences, and fill the dream of 15" woofers in my listening room. :hmm: If someone really needs them more urgent than me in, lets say spring, let me know. When they have to go they could be offered for resale here first, and reluctantly and at very last go to ebay pairwise, as Don C suggested. I assume the 2213Hs as reconed and unused pair will have some value alone, but hey - don't you guys think too, would be a pity to separate this set? Imagine in future i would need to say: "Yeah i used to have a pair of 4312 once, but damn, i've never heard them"... :D

We'll see, i hope this thread to be in the correct section once, technical help: when i'm applying them to cabinets. :yes: In the meantime i'll continue another project in need of some maintenance, over the holidays.
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc022614hw.jpg

Btw, just for interest, let me ask the question from post #5 again: what would go wrong if i applied them to some 4311 cabinets? For sure not the correct way to revive them, but would the sonics be much different?

Fangio
12-31-2005, 05:00 AM
More pics next year. :D

Fangio
01-01-2006, 12:30 AM
Happy New Year to all Lansing enthusiasts!

So here is n 2, starting with a dubious one. If you like, try to identify the woofer please, from this sellers pic ;)

Still 2 days to wait until they arrive. Note: this is not WYSIWY(I)G. I will never see these woofers or the tweeters in real life. The guy will keep them for separate sale. The LE5-12's stay in. So when you see them through my eyes, you see the baffle here only, and the edges.

Fangio
01-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Was asked if i have a deal already, or still need cabinets. Yes i have a deal.

Ok, here's what i did. Went to ebay over christmas, with 'a little different' ad (7573798806 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7573798806&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D7573798806%26fvi %3D1)). Got quite a lot of hits there, less spam than expected, a dozen interesting offers, and picked this one out because its a matching pair with all paperwork, and improvable.

Second best were empty 4311's in excellent condition, which would have been even delivered. I was tempted to take them, turn them around 180 and relocate the LF and HF pots... also a pair of L112 enclosures was very interesting, thats why i asked here how 044's are regarded as improvement. But at last 2 pairs 4312 popped up. These ones had one woofer replaced with a 12" Monacor, and a LE5-12 is slightly dented. Pretty reasonably priced, and as mentioned the original owner keeps the tweeters and woofers for separate sale.

Still 24h till they should arrive.


Good swap for you, maybe not for him, unless he really likes the Bose.
Btw, the boses are sold (7570140172 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7570140172&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D7570140172%26fvi %3D1)).

Anthony L100
01-02-2006, 04:17 AM
A very creative strategy Fangio, I hope the boxes meet your expectations. BTW, would you have been amused if somebody had bought the units?:bouncy:

Fangio
01-02-2006, 05:59 PM
No, not really. I said i would not sell them until spring. The risk was low though. Actually i did fear more that ebay could cancel this "offer"-masked search, but fortunately they acted as assumed they preferred to take the 10 and closed one eye. :p

If it had happened, Tony probably i would just have bought bigger JBL's for the money? :coolness: But it was an as interesting challenge to find these cabinets, as rare drivers. And restoring the little monitors to end as intended, can be more fun and satisfaction, than making some euros by just giving the components to the next one on ebay. Its just my second project though, and maybe not comparable to the high levels of many others.

So thats what i got: first thing was a full dosis of the typical JBL aroma, when i opened the cartons unpayable. And now starts the manual work, my next keywords for searching are: cabs, walnut, reoiling, sandpaper grain, fillers, lacquer, dead black, satin gloss.

Fangio
01-07-2006, 09:39 AM
big time to wake up the drivers, and screw them in finally.

Fangio
01-07-2006, 01:02 PM
Sound very accurate, with punchy lows. They have to play a lot of music this weekend. Also to learn that we have 2006 now, and say hello to an unknown input source its called "iTunes". The WAF is surprising, gf suggested her workroom already as permanent location in future.

Maybe its just me, i see still some little glitches to fix. The basstubes like to disappear in the cabinets, need to find a way to fix them flush with the baffles. And why t.h. did APH use brown glue for the dustcap, when they reconed one 2213H is that common, or shouldn't it be black like at the new one?

Anthony L100
01-07-2006, 04:58 PM
Hey Fangio, I can tell you're happy!:applaud: They look great. I've never had a pair, but I would imagine they are not too different from my 4311b s. Those 2213s have a very different character to the later 122As etc, (foam surrounds) as in L166s. They may not go quite as deep and they have a hump around 60hz, but it's a different quality, slightly "twangy" which works extremely well with certain types of music. As regards the brown glue, if the driver is functionally A1, then why not touch it up with a fine artists brush and a touch of gloss black to match the new one. Standard fixture for the tubes is 3 staples on the flange straight into the baffle. I've found silicone mastic does the trick, and easily removed for future mods. I'm sure you're gonna be happy!:bouncy:

My 4311b s Turning them upside down was a pretty cool update, eh?? Oh! just noticed your pair are mirror imaged, cool. Which is left and which is right?:blink:

toddalin
01-07-2006, 07:24 PM
Came out very nice! How come you didn't set the voice coil leads on the woofer cones also in an asymetric pattern??? Would drive me crazy like that!:spin:

Fangio
01-08-2006, 01:34 AM
Hey Fangio, I can tell you're happy!:applaud: They look great. I've never had a pair, but I would imagine they are not too different from my 4311b s. Those 2213s have a very different character to the later 122As etc, (foam surrounds) as in L166s. They may not go quite as deep and they have a hump around 60hz, but it's a different quality, slightly "twangy" which works extremely well with certain types of music.
Tony,
thanks, i'm quite happy indeed, although they aren't finished. After A/B'ing them, this is for the other L166 owners out there: it takes bigger JBL monitors to beat the Horizons, these 431x do not. ;) The lows are really deeper with a 122A, but the new 2213H sound more twangy, thats right. The 066 is superior to the cone tweeters, in my ears. The LE25-2 have a smaller spot too. Anyway great speakers, they will stay for longer.

As regards the brown glue, if the driver is functionally A1, then why not touch it up with a fine artists brush and a touch of gloss black to match the new one. Standard fixture for the tubes is 3 staples on the flange straight into the baffle. I've found silicone mastic does the trick, and easily removed for future mods. I'm sure you're gonna be happy!:bouncy:
My 4311b s Turning them upside down was a pretty cool update, eh?? Oh! just noticed your pair are mirror imaged, cool. Which is left and which is right?:blink:
Great tips, still not sure about the perfect color to use though, but i'll check that. Could also turn out that i get used to that. To the left/right thing, these are nearfield speakers, right? Exceptionally i did RTFM, and it says:

If a pair of 4312s (or other mirror imaged speakers) are placed fairly close together, a wider stereo perpective will be realized by orienting the enclosures so that the high frequency drivers are furthest apart. Conversely, if the speakers are placed far apart, orienting the enclosures so that the high frequency drivers are closest together will help maintain a good stereo image.

So, it depends.

Fangio
01-08-2006, 01:49 AM
Came out very nice! How come you didn't set the voice coil leads on the woofer cones also in an asymetric pattern??? Would drive me crazy like that! :spin:

Why didn't i see that myself? :banghead:

Your input is much appreciated. Thanks toddalin, for making me aware of this point. When i have the cabinets done, you'll see a last pic here where the woofers mounting is asymetric as suggested. :yes:

johnaec
01-08-2006, 07:07 AM
When i have the cabinets done, you'll see a last pic here where the woofers mounting is asymetric as suggested. :yes:Dang! I just realized the controls aren't mirror imaged...:duck:

John

rek50
01-08-2006, 08:41 AM
Fangio, Thanks : If a pair of 4312s (or other mirror imaged speakers) are placed fairly close together, a wider stereo perpective will be realized by orienting the enclosures so that the high frequency drivers are furthest apart. Conversely, if the speakers are placed far apart, orienting the enclosures so that the high frequency drivers are closest together will help maintain a good stereo image.
I wondered which was left or right. I'll have to change mine so the HF drivers are closest together as I think they are placed "Far apart" compared to how they might be in a "Studio".

Fangio
03-31-2006, 07:32 AM
Well this was started as a winter project, the winter is almost over. An amount of that 1/4 terpentine 3/4 linseed oil mix was left over from the 4430s overhaul, so big time to finish the 4312s.
A nice opportunity to show what that formula effected to the box on the right side, they looked both the same before. Not sure what commercial, ready products could do better, sealing probably. Here, a fluid without unknown hardcore chemistry was preferred, and I can recommend it. The pics don't show that semi gloss glance that also came back.