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Ian Mackenzie
09-06-2003, 06:09 PM
Has anyone got experience with this JIG,

I'm about to order one for the baffle cutting of the 4345.

The reviews on Parts Express appear very good. (Model 200)


Ian:cool:

4313B
09-06-2003, 06:19 PM
Frankly, I don't remember what I used to do without one. I've been through a few of them already. I would never be without one again.

Ian Mackenzie
09-06-2003, 06:22 PM
Cool,

Its a must have then,

Ian

boputnam
09-06-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
Frankly, I don't remember what I used to do without one. I've been through a few of them already. I would never be without one again. Completely agree.

I had posted on this somewhere else Router and Circle Jig - Link (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=677&highlight=Bosch+router) and on the quarantined Thread. They are phenomenal.

Some other suggestions - if your a newbie to this "sport", get this, too: Working with the Router - Link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0762102276/qid=1062895750/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-5443938-8843025) certainly more than you'll need, but that's the way reference material should be.

Get a plunge router. They save millions of crummy little steps.

And, use a backing board, and drill yourself a guide hole through both the baffle and the backing board. Put your guide through both, and after the half-way point, turn the baffle over and finish the cut from the other side. That guide in the backing board will keep things positioned solidly until you are done. :thmbsup:

And as Earl K would remind, Goggles and some dang ear muffs - afterall, if you ruin your hearing why are you doing all this work! ;)

Ian Mackenzie
09-06-2003, 08:00 PM
Guys,

Thanks for the ideas & links.

Thankfully my Dad will be assisting.

He has a very well equiped workshop, complete with plung router etc and quite a bit of experience. It will be a precise & exacting job with some care and planning.

The plan is to cut out the existing baffle leaving a 50mm lip around the edges, I'll use the Black & Decker Jigsaw for that.

The new baffle will be a 18+18mm MDF laminated with PVA glue for strength and cut so the mid dog box slots into a retangle cut out tbrough the inner layer of MDF. This will make a neat fit and brace the baffle around the circle cut outs.

The edges of the baffle will be hardwood with a 18mm curve radius cut using the router. Then its a matter screwing & glue the new baffle down on the face.

I will try and replicate as close to the original baffle as possible complete with front plate and level contols. I color will be a challenge..I have tried previously and failed twice..ending up the the Greek Islands in the living room and a lot of rude remarks...Muhahaha.

My neighbour/buddy is a graphics teacher at the local tech college and has offered to do the artwork & make the face plates.

So it will be a great project and will keep you posted.

Ian

Hey Bo ..where are you in that picture.....Come on its time for your portrait buddy. No need to be shy as the proud owner of those 4345's right boys

:)

boputnam
09-06-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
Thankfully my Dad will be assisting.

The plan is to cut out the existing baffle leaving a 50mm lip around the edges.

The new baffle will ... cut so the mid dog box slots into a retangle cut out tbrough the inner layer of MDF.

The edges of the baffle will be hardwood with a 18mm curve radius cut using the router. Then its a matter screwing & glue the new baffle down on the face.

So it will be a great project and will keep you posted.
Hey, Ian...

First, when the hell do you sleep? Man. You are out here at the weirdest hours (that is if Melbourne is really your home, or merely your Internet home... ;) )

Some thoughts - forgive my imprudence:

First, what are you dismantling and cutting the baffle from?

Second, I've had some trouble getting airtight that "new baffle mounting to the lip of the old" scheme. A real pain in the arse to test stuff until the final glue-job is done. No hints here, just a rant... :eek:

Third, I'd NOT cut a hole through the baffle for that MD subenclosure / doghouse. There are baffle structural issues to consider, and there would be more areas to ensure are airtight for the 2245H. I'd mount it on the rear of the baffle like JBL did, if possible. I think they did this smartly.

Please do, keep us posted.

And, there is a picture of me while on the Forum. It was posted some time ago... I am NOT on the adkins diet. Ha!

Ian Mackenzie
09-06-2003, 09:08 PM
The time is 1.09 pm in the afternoon here in inner bayside St Kilda , the sun is over the yard arm so its time to crack a stubbie of VB...I need it after my birthday bash last night.


http://www.onefitzroystreet.com.au/

Some thoughts - forgive my imprudence:
Your welcome.......any ideas please post

First, what are you dismantling and cutting the baffle from?

From the Dogone existing speaker dude Muuuauau I'mean hello (sorry can't help it today)

The baffle is permenantly glued/screwed in. I thought about inserting a partially baffle..but that would be messy.

Second, I've had some trouble getting airtight that "new baffle mounting to the lip of the old" scheme. A real pain in the arse to test stuff until the final glue-job is done. No hints here, just a rant...

Hey I hear ya there Bo, thats a good point, I better check with my straight edge and also the dog box, you are right. Did they use cleats around the dog box??

Here is my favourite cross section of the 4343, I figure the 4345 must be similar? In this box they appear to have router'd a shallow recess to position the dog box.

What a ya reckon?

Ian

Ps I like your picture

Ian Mackenzie
09-06-2003, 09:50 PM
Here is a previous image of the 4345/4430 box,

As you may be able to see, the baffle is flush mounted and fairly smooth. The original baffle is actually 50mm mdf.

I have procrastinated for a while over what to do and how, and each time I see putting a new baffle down over the original (after cutting it out as the easiest/best option.

The structural problem with mounting the 2307 in the existing format is that the 2344 hole is square, and there is not enough room for the slot and 2307, also the 2307 cannot be positioned close enough to the 2122 mid because of a 2 x 4 brace on the baffle allowing the top section to be removable. And I would like the 2122 mid to be offset from the centre, here it gets mess to attempt to alter the existing baffle.

Ian

boputnam
09-06-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
Here is a previous image of the 4345/4430 box,

Here it gets mess to attempt to alter the existing baffle. Man, what a NICE problem to have!!! Whoa... A cornucopia of transducers!

That cut-away view of the 4343 is nearly priceless. So, that's our FIRST order of business!! You been holdin' out, boy! Come on!!! Gimme some MORE!! Go ahead and email me anything you got like that!

But, to the question of the lowMF subenclosure, I would definately at a maximum route a little groove to nest the doghouse into, but I would not go too deep. And no, there are no cleats around the doghouse - it is only glued in.

That brings-up another point: The fewer the miscellaneous clamps, brackest, etc., the better. There are hella vibrations in the 4345 cabinet, and it tries persistently to vibrate itself apart. These had a nasty BUZZ when I got 'em that I sourced to the rear-support bracket on the 2421B. I ultimately may have to glue the screws in, if lock-washers don't hold on my next entering (pics when I do...).

Hella vibrations, but that's what we're looking for, thanks to you, Dr. 2245H!! ;)

Ian Mackenzie
09-07-2003, 12:25 AM
Hmm,

A cornucopia of transducers, thats a newy, I put it in Bablefish and got the response: "does not compute Will Robinson...please explain"

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
09-07-2003, 12:34 AM
Bo,

Well you asked for it, here's how the opposition did it:

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
09-07-2003, 12:54 AM
Here's a nice table

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
09-07-2003, 12:59 AM
Then theres my complete wifey guide to speaker building, bound to be a boom around here,

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
09-07-2003, 01:02 AM
Go for it honey,

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
09-07-2003, 01:04 AM
Groovy baby,

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
10-04-2003, 09:52 PM
Just a short note on progress with the Jasper Circle Jig.

All is going according to plan.

I have successfully cut one baffle, it took a while but I think steady progress (not rushed ) is the key to success here.

Actually, the spacing and setting the actual baffle cut out diameters was a real challenge.

Many thanks to Bo for his assistance.


There was also quite a bit of preparation including a special framing jig which had to be arranged to hold the 2 18 mm MDF panels in precise alignment while cutting.

Because of the flange diameters were much larger in diameter for the 2307 and the 2405, the inner and outer layers had to be cut seperately while maintaining the same centre Pin hole for the Jasper circle jig.

I will post some work in progress pics in a few days. Its really starting to look like a 4345 now (no cardboard baffles here Bo)

Ian

:)

boputnam
10-05-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
Its really starting to look like a 4345 now Dang it - I need to get to the hardware store with the 4301B's in tow, and see if they can match that JBL blue...

Hey, Ian...

I got baffled (sorry...) a bit by the part about the flanges and the "inner and outer" layers. What you got goin' on, there... :hmm: You cuttin' both baffles at once, or...??

Ian Mackenzie
10-05-2003, 12:10 PM
Bo (damm Yanky) let me explain the dang thing,

Boy the baffle framing jig does two things:

It positions both layers of mdf in (1) exact alignment and allows the Jasper circle jig to swing (2) freely over the mdf surface with intrusion of clamps, bolts etc.

Using two layers of mdf does complicate the cutting process and requires that they be initially stacked atop each other so when the centre pin drill hole is drilled it is in precisely the same position on both mdf layers. (compendo)

The holes for the 2245 and 2122 are cut straight through and therefore both mdf layers need to be in exact alighnment when the router bit cuts through the top layer.

After the top mdf layer is cut it is lifted out of the baffle framing jig and inner layer is raised with some packing and then cut. (The 1/4 in router bit is only long enough for 1 inch deep cut)

The 2307 and 2308 have a bolt flange which is larger then the actual baffle cutout diameter, as the depth of the flang is less than the thickness of the 2 mdf layers the lower mdf layer must have a hole equal to the flang diameter. So the circle jig is adjusted to cut the larger hole before cutting the lower layer.

So there you have it boy,



Ian


:cool:

boputnam
10-05-2003, 03:33 PM
So, I think I get it now (not that it matters, just curious...) - you are making the baffle double-thick (2x 18mm). You refer to "two layers" - this is gonna be one whopper of a cabinet... I now understand what you mean about the 2307 and 2405 - your baffle is much thicker than original.

I like the idea of the raised Jasper-jig rig (is that redundant...?) avoiding clamps is always a hassle.

Nice,

Alex Lancaster
10-05-2003, 04:07 PM
Ian: Are You making Yr baffle board 36mm thick?, or making 2 at the same time.

Bo: You donŽt qualify for Yank privileges, YouŽd have to go a few thousand miles E by NE.

Alex.

boputnam
10-05-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Ian: Are You making Yr baffle board 36mm thick?, or making 2 at the same time.

Bo: You donŽt qualify for Yank privileges, YouŽd have to go a few thousand miles E by NE.

Alex. Alex... That's the root of my confusion (at least on this thread...). I had thought he was cutting both L/R at once, you know, with one laying upside down. But, the bit about the mounting flange on the 2405, and it's throat being too short, suggest Ian's doubling the thickness of each baffle, to 36mm.

And, yea, I do. Rooted in NewMexico and Nevada by way of being born in Manhattan (NYC). At the very least, both my goldens are from Maine (Little Country Goldens - Link (http://www.pivot.net/~lcgolden/) ), so that counts, too..

4313B
10-05-2003, 04:19 PM
I've decided I would prefer the blonde to do all my future loudspeaker building for me. She maintains an impeccably clean work area, dresses smart and has a great smile. Plus she keeps her hair up while working for safety concerns and lets it down when she's done.

Excellent!

Ian Mackenzie
10-05-2003, 04:25 PM
Bo takes the prize 36mm

DammYankee

macka

boputnam
10-05-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
I've decided I would prefer the blonde to do all my future loudspeaker building for me... But how do you choose!??

Ian Mackenzie
10-06-2003, 03:33 AM
Yeap,

Phillips had the right idea with their diy drivers in the 70's.

Nearly got baffles for both boxes cut.

All the drivers fit perfectly (" swell "for you Yankee's...muhahahha) thanks again to Bo's precision measurements.

Then will make the dog boxes and attach'm with mitred corner cuts of F17 hardwood scewed/glued to the inner baffle like a brick shit house which should brace and strengthen the whole structure.

Then a bit of delicate inset work on the front layer for the 3mm aluminum level contol plate and drill driver mounting holes. Decided will buy new L pads like the 50watt jobs with 1 inch shaft (Parts Express260-255).

Will probably with have the level control plate enagraved (and etched) with a computorised Artwork router by my sign writer guru neighbour Morpheus. (an Englishman who hates a Guinness)

Should look just like the original with a bit of effort.


Ian:smthsail:

4313B
10-06-2003, 06:39 AM
These are the L-Pads I use on high performance midrange drivers such as used in the 4343/4344/4345 - Parts Express 260-265 (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15812774&St=1245&St2=-88689360&St3=82429692&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=5656&DID=7)
They are an 8 ohm version of the high power 16 ohm JBL 51594 ceramic L-Pad.

Ian Mackenzie
10-06-2003, 06:57 AM
Thanks for the tip.

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
10-07-2003, 01:26 AM
Tried the Parts Express 260-265 but they wanted US$35.00 in shipping which made me look else where. (the whole order was around $36.00 worth)

I finally found a local outfit called Altonics who carry what appears to be identical hardware for Aus $16.75 each and probably comes from the same factory. The model I ordered has a 1 inch shaft which will allow securing via the inner baffle layer

I scoured the web for some time looking for these devices and they appear to come in 15, 30, 50 and 100 watt ratings, the higher rating units appear to be of better quality.

http://www.altronics.com.au/cat.asp?cat=7&grp=68&id=A2110

Also another interesting link:


http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/lpad.html


Ian:smthsail: