Speakers as furniture

[opimax]

Hi all,

My first post and of course it is really questions hidden in the polite background. I hope this is the correct location and all of you experts are biting at the bit to educate a newbie.http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif

I had 2 memories of JBL speakers from the 70’s and early 80’s. At U of MD (Fear the Turtle!) was the 1st and listening rooms in the (at the time) new library listening rooms, they had a t least 4 L100s in each room. Use to think I would study but just listened to the music. The other was buying from Crutchfield the raw drivers for the same speakers (and not realizing it until years later) to install in my car. The 1st is a very pleasant memory and the 2nd didn’t work out well mainly due to the poor install which I paid through the nose (and other places) for.


A friend of mind later bought the drivers when they were removed and put the mids and tweeters in custom home speakers that I years later bought from him. I think the mids are still upstairs. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blink.gif


Forward 20 years to now. At 50 I am building my entertainment room in the living room (sometimes it is good to be by myself) I have purchased completely redone Dahlquist DQ-10s for my front stage. I am having 2nd thoughts. Some Heritage JBLs would look much nicer as long as I don’t loose any sound quality (it will be different I realize). I saw my first ones on EBay, Olympus and Sovereign style. Too wide, they are 40” and I have 37.5 on each side of the fireplace. I found this site and then the library. I looked in the library and the choices I see are the Verona L71, S70 Alpha, C51 Apollo, and C61 Sovereign II.


At this point I will wait for comments and will respond to them. The factors again are appearance, space and sound quality. The goals for the room are sports 1st (already sounds good enough for that), listen to music in stereo using Sony str2des and Velodyne SPL 1200R, watching concerts on DVD, and an occasional movie. My tastes are classic rock, Jam bands, Blues, new age jazz, light jazz http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blah.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blah.gif http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blah.gif


Thanks very much,

Mark

[Zilch]

Forget all that stuff you've listed.

You want 4430's. :)

[opimax]

They don't have that furniture look.That tweeter does quite the opposite drawing attention to the fact that it is a speaker :D . Are there others speakers other then what i listed that will fit my needs? what are the chances of finding any of these? are any of these different or extra special?Mark

[yggdrasil]

Be patient, watch eBay. They will come.

[opimax]

thanks, there is no hurry :) . I am looking for opinions on the different speaker lines, especially as far as sound goes. I don't expect to be able to listen before buying so any thoughts on the sound would be great. Any to stay away from? Replacement parts too hard to find? any over priced that just arn't worth it? any members have any to sell? where to look besides ebay?

Thanks
Mark

[Zilch]

O.K., then,

C51 and C61 came with a variety of options:

1) 001 - 130A, LE175DLH, N1200

2) 030 - D130, 075, N2400

3) S1 - LE14A, LE175DLH, LX10

4) S7 - LE15A, LE85, HL91, LX5


S70 Alpha has a 12" three-way with LE20-1 tweeter.

L71 Verona I know nothing about.

Start watching your local Craigslist also.

Don't be afraid to buy empty cabinets which some seller has parted out. We can make them better than any of the originals....

[toddalin]

Just sold a pair of beautiful C51 Apollo cabinets (with the optional fretwork) to someone on this forum last week. They had LE-14Cs. The Apollo cabinets are not all that big and the LE14A/LE-14C MAY be the best of the woofers for this size cabinet (about 2.9 cubic feet internal volume).

[Regis]

I don't know if these will fit the bill, but they are certainly closer to furniture than what I've got. C38's and they look, really, really nice.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ele/98349430.html

[Dingusboy]

Something like this:

[Dingusboy]

Or maybe this?

[Earl K]

Hi
I've always given Altec the "edge" in the "furniture department" . Specifically, those pieces from the 60's till mid seventies with "Mediterranian" inspired names.

Here's the Barcelona , which is definately furniture . The components ; 802 driver on the 511 horn and the 411 woofer are all quite good . Too bad this model is 1" too wide ( at 38.5" ) .

:)

[toddalin]

I don't know if these will fit the bill, but they are certainly closer to furniture than what I've got. C38's and they look, really, really nice.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ele/98349430.html

From the picture, I don't think that that is a "potato masher" (HL-87) with an LE175 or LE85 driver. I thinks it's an LE20 tweeter which was mated to the D123 with the LX2 crossover. The D123 was also mated to the 075 tweeter with the N2400 crossover. None of my literature shows a D123 mated with either the LE175 or LE85.

["Duke" Spinner]

you need to re-order preferences

first ....performance

last .....apearance ....

hey, yer w/o wife ....Soooooo ... Enjoy It .....:bouncy:

[opimax]

Duke I need to get wife, not scare her off, And I don't want her to make changes once I get her :). What I have ain't bad as far as sound quality, not up to real high end but certainly OK. I will not go backwards.



Todd, not quite there yet but could be in a while as far as speaker numbers, do you have any pictures of the Apollos?



Earl good choice on looks, you are right I am better off not cutting close and go w/ as a max of 35.5. I am partial JBL but if everything were right (sound quality) I could go w/a known alternative.



Dboy, 2nd one are the best look for me so far, really like the door handles, who/what are those? 1st ones look too much like speakers. generally would think 3 way but I believe a high quality 2 way could work, my current DQ 10 are 5 way , lol



Zilch do you have any opinions on the speakers you know about? The Verona is different furniture then the Alpha, just like the 51 and 61 I believe. And the best size cabinet for my application. If I go the empty cabinet route have patience, it will get done

thanks much guys!:bouncy:



Mark

[Tweak48]

High Wife Acceptance Factor, and they sound pretty good too. Mine are biamped with 125 watt s/s direct wired to the woofs, and 60 watts of tube on top. Really clean, really loud, great extension on top and bottom.

Zilch is right, though. If you visualy can handle the large format butt cheeks, the 4430 is nearly as good as you can get at any price.

[Phil H]

Hi,
I have been reading this forum to learn more about JBL speakers because I don't know much. I bought the Apollo speakers that Todd mentioned. The cabinets look great. I hope I attached the picture OK.

[Zilch]

Zilch do you have any opinions on the speakers you know about?I hope you're getting my point. What they sound like depends upon what's in them. A box is a box, fundamentally, and whether it's Soverign, Alpha, Apollo, or whatever the same size, they will all sound the same with the same components in them.

I have heard all of those vintage driver systems, and quite frankly, they all need "fixing." That's why I suggest you find cabinets you like and buy them empty, for cheap, if you can, if you want to put together a decent sounding system by contemporary standards.

If I had cabinets with doors on them, they'd be standing open all the time, and I'd have padding on the hinges and handles to stop them from rattling. I do have several systems with fretwork grilles here, and they are very beautiful. However, they are also diffusers, and inconsistent with the constant directivity designs I like best. I guess you can tell, I view speakers as speakers first, and form follows function here....

[Dingusboy]

Dboy, 2nd one are the best look for me so far, really like the door handles, who/what are those? 1st ones look too much like speakers. generally would think 3 way but I believe a high quality 2 way could work, my current DQ 10 are 5 way , lol


They are Voice of Music Model 85's. The speakers are mounted above the handles which are purely decoration. They work but as mentioned with other stuff in this thread, better drivers would be in order. I have no use for them but they were just too interesting looking to pass up.

[Earl K]

opimax

For a bit of window shopping, stroll through all the product catalogues found in the Lansing Library (http://www.lansingheritage.org/).

- This will help you discern what "furniture" suits your aesthetic needs, plus what will physically fit.

- As Zilch has pointed out, buying empty ( but attractive ) boxes will be a good direction to go .

<> :cheers:

[opimax]

Thanks, the Apollos look great, I would be happy to have them. Let me know when you are done with them!! Is the price public knowledge?

Zilch, I understand completely on that point. I was originally thinking of going w/the best factory set up and wondering which that was. I thought that the best would be good enough if the original speakers were up to new standards. In my case of the very complete upgraded DQ-10s they are still sweet sounding (albeit no bass but the sub makes up for that) Are there "known" combinations of drivers that are preffered that would be recommened, almost a standard answer? And as far as handles I would only want them for appearence for the reasons you mentioned .....and to watch somebody try to open them who didn't know better, that would make my point :D . I would think if you put the 4430's you said to buy in some doors they would work also:blink: I also need to ask; could my declining hearing appreciate all the nuances the really high end drivers. I would think I can appreciate the lack of colorization(sp?) ,dynamic range(tightness)but I no longer can hear what the dogs hear (use to able to hear burglar alarms which had a high pitch to them in stores) in the upper end but it is nice to know that it is there and other people may appreciate the SQL.

Dboy , I must admit the drivers don't look impressive but I haven't heard them so I won't say anything, still like the looks though.

last comment, I am a function over form guy, fought w/ EX speciffically about that and it does come into play here. The "living room" must be used for that or the toys would get banished back up the "70s dorm room" upstairs w/the pinball machine, lava lamps, black light, etc. The picture Tewak has is very nice but does not show the 61" monitor above the fireplace and the theater style chairs that will be in the "living room" in my house. I am putting the audio/video I want in the room and getting a womans touch on the rest around this install. Anything I can do help this room function as a living room is a good idea in the long run...

Mark

[opimax]

I did a QUICK search of the Altec catalog, didn't see anything that caught my attention that would better that I have seen here so far but I think I love the coffee table bass cabinet in 81 home!! I could keep the drinks mixed while watching the Skins do a number to Dallas:applaud: :applaud: . I will check more at work later


Mark

[toddalin]

Thanks, the Apollos look great, I would be happy to have them. Let me know when you are done with them!! Is the price public knowledge?

Mark

$500/pr with the original LE-14C and LX-2 crossovers. These were from late '60s with the foam edge and they needed new foams. Otherwise, they were in excellent condition.

I was going to use the speakers in my surround and chuck the cabinets, but they were to nice so I decided to see them go to to a nice deserving home and someone who would better appreciate the cabinetry workmanship.

You should have seen the matching Delphi cabinet (in even better shape) that was given to the gardner!

Phil, I'm glad that you got them home safely.

[Regis]

JBL S1 speaker system- LE175 horn tweeters, LE14A woofers (recently refoamed), LX10 x-overs; loaded into C51 ("Apollo") cabinets, 8 ohms, few frets missing from the ornate front grilles but otherwise in presentable condition, $1000.pair

Price is fair and firm. MUST be picked up in the Glendale area. No shipping due to their size and weight.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ele/98985657.html

Let me know if you're interested, I'd help out with them, as I'm local in SoCal.

[opimax]

Regis, that is very kind of you!! Have you looked at this eBay auction to compare the 2?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5809665276&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5809665276&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)


They have the 001 configuration the ones you listed are the s1 configuration, is one generally more revered than the other? The frets look better on the eBay ones but there is no picture to compare the rest of the cabinets. The ones Todd sold for 500 seem to be the deal to get.


Both are in LA while I am in the Wash DC area. With either a g35 coupe or a Subaru Baja to pick these up, I will have to measure the bed of the Baja to see if they both fit. I am not sure it would be a good idea to travel across the whole country to get these home in the back of the Baja. I think I will be picky ad pass on both of these since I have an acceptable set of speakers currently and these replacements will be plug and play


Zilch, you mentioned you had some furniture items, tell me more if you don’t mind



I looked through the Altec catalogs and found 2 that might work for my tastes, (71) the Valencia and the Flamingo and (81) still really like the coffee table sub LF1/LF2. I was not able to find the Voice of Music Model 85's that Dboy pictured.



Appearance wise my choices in order are JBL Verona (73 and 71), the Altec Flamenco, Altec Valencia (both in 71 home), JBL Apollo (67), and Sovereign 2 (67).somewhere in there is Dboy’s VOC 85



Thanks

Mark

[Zilch]

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1973-l101.htm

[Tom Loizeaux]

I think that if I had to buy a pair of speakers based on their appearence and how they fit in my decor, I'd look into modern tower speakers. JBL makes a few and other companies make many choices in this design. I think the JBL K2 S9800 would look very nice in almost any living room...and sound OK too!
But I prefer speakers that don't pretend to be furniture. I like "utility" cabinets that were designed to perform with stunning audio specs. Though I do have a pair of Altec Valencias in my livingroom, my serious listening happens in my basement "studio" room. The gray JBL 4343s look very much at home and don't try to be furniture. There is integrity in these big gray boxes that give them an understated elegance. The walnut veneered 4312As sitting on top actually seem a little too "fancy" for the job they're supposed to do.
...but that's just me.

Tom

[Regis]

Here's a deal-e-o, and on Ebay even.
2 JBL FLOOR Standing CABINET SPEAKERS Set LE14C 26 x 19

LE 20 tweeters. Not sure if there's a horn or not..., also not sure if they'll fill the bill, but they're certainly furniture. In NY too, since you're on the East Coast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-JBL-FLOOR-Standing-CABINET-SPEAKERS-Set-LE14C-26-x-19_W0QQitemZ5810899986QQcategoryZ61377QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

[toddalin]

Here's a deal-e-o, and on Ebay even.
2 JBL FLOOR Standing CABINET SPEAKERS Set LE14C 26 x 19

LE 20 tweeters. Not sure if there's a horn or not..., also not sure if they'll fill the bill, but they're certainly furniture. In NY too, since you're on the East Coast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-JBL-FLOOR-Standing-CABINET-SPEAKERS-Set-LE14C-26-x-19_W0QQitemZ5810899986QQcategoryZ61377QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

If the speakers are LE-14Cs, like it says, why would they need the LE20s as the tweeters are already in the woofers???

[Phil H]

I think the guy with the ad doesn't know the difference between a tweeter and a crossover. It also says, "tweeter knobs have been cleaned & caps replaced ." My guess is that the tweeter with knobs is an LX2-1

[opimax]

Sorry it took so long to respond, damn job gets in the way of my life J


Thanks Zilch, They look nice, I didn’t notice the marble top, I had to read it. I bet they look unbelievable in person. Are they all original? I am hoping to score some bigger cabinet speakers. I don’t want to do my typical rush and but to find I didn’t have all information availablehttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif .


Tom, the budget for speakers at this time just isn’t at $15K unfortunately, and I just have the bug for 1 of the 5 or 6 I listed above. That does include the Valencia. I would really enjoy auditioning them if you were ever to allow thishttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif . A good picture would go along way if you would do that at some point I would really appreciate ithttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif . As you have done they are in your living room for appearance as I will do also. I would probably upgrade the electronics as suggested earlier with out damaging the interior.

Regis, I agree NY is not too far even as gas goes up but for the right speakers. I have no issue doing 12 hours 1 way, I won’t sleep with speakers in a truck any where. I am stuck on the speakers as I picked out until I see something else. I read one site that currently is making quality speakers in furniture designs. They, from what I remember they were too expensive using today’s furniture and today’s speakers. I was not looking seriously at the time though. I haven’t checked back. I do like classic items. The JBLs and Altec designs seem more than fine from the scans here http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/cool.gif.

Note: just checked no bids, 200 might be hard to avoid if it stays that way, maybe move them to surrounds when Tom gets tired of those old ratty Valancias http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/tongue.gif Anybody have a ballpark estimate what they SHOULD go for?

Has anybody heard /seen the LF1/2 coffee table?

Mark

[Stovebolt6]

Dingusboy,

What model are the speakers in the photo by the truck tailgate?

Dan

[prw]

How's this? :coolness:

[opimax]

Drool , Drool......not bad, give 100 bucks if you deliver.....drool drool :D .


For my application I would have to cut it up and put 1/2 on each side of the fireplace if it would fit that way.This way I can rationalize not lusting for one currently.

The 1 on Ebay is up to 6200 ish and reserve has not been met.

Next time I drive to Wisc to visit realitive would you like to demo ? :bouncy:

Mark

I just realized that is the smaller version, newbie mistake, sorry :barf:

[prw]

Absolutely stop by anytime you're near Chi-town for a demo...just give me a shout: [email protected].

BTW - I hope I didn't imply that they're for sale (because they're not).

[Mr. Widget]

How's this? :coolness:

That is very nice!:bouncy:


Widget

[Phil H]

prw,
Are those Minigons? A set went on eBay a little while ago for 2137.88 (eBay number 5806941894), but the picture stunk. Your's look wonderful.

Edit: I just saw your post in the technical forum about your Minigons - so I found the answer.

[opimax]

I have maybe found a set of Veronashttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif . I am looking to find out what a fair price for them. I believe the they are in VG or better condition. They have been decribed as L100s in cabinets. To me that is a good thing but I am open to upgrades if I buy them as long as I can put them back to original if I'd like later. The part to upgrade would be mids, tweeter, xover. I know I am getting ahead of myself but I just can't help ithttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif .

Price guides and comments please

Mark

[gonefishin]

WOW!


prw...that's truly a thing of beauty. Very nice :)


dan

[Dingusboy]

Dingusboy,

What model are the speakers in the photo by the truck tailgate?

Dan

Dan,

The only label they have is Acousti-Craft and JBL

a few more pics are here (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ebradself/JBL%20D130%20150-4C%20Foilcal.htm)

BTW, Nice to "see" you GF!