JBL 4425 sounds dry & hash at mid-high range?

[tcs]

My JBL 4425 pair sounds pretty good. Except the problem above.
My setup is:

Amp: Audio Research CA50 valve
CDP: Marantz CD 16 w Benchmarkmedia DAC1
Inter cable: VDH The First Ultimate
Spk cable: VDH CS 122

Is that the nature of JBL monitor speakers?
I listen to vocal a lot. How to make them sounds lucid and sweet? (I mean by changing amplifier or source.)

[Chas]

Your symptoms sound very much like my first impressions of my 4430's. It turns out I had oxidized switch contacts. Is there a switch for biamping the 4425? I am not sure.

I would also clean the L-pads, if possible. If still no success, maybe the HF drivers need looking at.

[Zilch]

JBL Studio Monitors are designed to produce flat frequency response, which some might charaterize as "dry."

There is no way to know what your system is reproducing until you measure it.

If you don't have access to an RTA, buy a Radio Shack SPL meter and a test tone disk and measure it manually, one speaker at a time.

[You should have one of these, anyway....]

[Akira]

JBL Studio Monitors are designed to produce flat frequency response, which some might charaterize as "dry."


DRY???
anything but! i've heard, colored, bright, articulate, dynamic, voice forward, present, full, smooth, edgy, directional, personality boxes, :blah: and a host of other descriptions, but never DRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

p.s. i've owned a pair of 4430's which sounded wonderfully smooth.......i would imagine the 4425 was intended to have similar characteristics.

[Don C]

Nope. Actually the 4430 and 4435 were "voiced all wrong". The 4425 was "voiced correctly." ;)
Who are you quoting here?

[Zilch]

DRY???
anything but! i've heard, colored, bright, articulate, dynamic, voice forward, present, full, smooth, edgy, directional, personality boxes, :blah: and a host of other descriptions, but never DRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm trying to be objective in this admittedly subjective territory.

It's a fundamental distinction between JBL Control (with L100, "West Coast" lineage) and Studio Monitors.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4408

For many, the initial reaction to first listening to true studio monitors is that they sound "dry" in comparision to the highly colored voicing of everything they've heard before. It's a major transition, actually. True studio monitors are different from "regular" speakers, and take some getting used to in the home listening environment. Once accomplished, tho, there's no going back. :p

You want to hear "Dry?" Compare 4412 to L100 in an A/B test. Or, 4412 to just about anything, for that matter....

[4425 don't have a switch....]

[tcs]

Your symptoms sound very much like my first impressions of my 4430's. It turns out I had oxidized switch contacts. Is there a switch for biamping the 4425? I am not sure.

I would also clean the L-pads, if possible. If still no success, maybe the HF drivers need looking at.

I'll try this suggestion first, thank you.
Since the speakers are rather old, I think doing this should improve the sound.
My speaker does not have any switch, but I'll clean the speaker binding post and the frequency level adjust.

[Akira]

Nope. Actually the 4430 and 4435 were "voiced all wrong". The 4425 was "voiced correctly."

Who are you quoting here?
lancer loves to talk with authority but he never defends a position. however, he may be right. i only kept the 4430's for 4 months because, although they sounded full and smooth, for studio work i never agreed with the voicing. apparently, other engineers had similar reactions, so i replaced them with Tannoy DMT12's and never received a complaint.

[tcs]

DRY???
anything but! i've heard, colored, bright, articulate, dynamic, voice forward, present, full, smooth, edgy, directional, personality boxes, :blah: and a host of other descriptions, but never DRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

p.s. i've owned a pair of 4430's which sounded wonderfully smooth.......i would imagine the 4425 was intended to have similar characteristics.

Yes, I think DRY means too uncoloured sound. About harsh, in my speakers I mean the notable appearance of the 's' sound in vocal voice. Any word related to 's' would sound a bit un-natural and uncomfortable (on some records)

[Robh3606]

Hello tcs

So you have a issue with sibilance then. How are the midrange and HF controls set??? What about FFFFFF???

Rob:)

[Zilch]

Any word related to 's' would sound a bit un-natural and uncomfortable (on some records)Yes. It's called "sibilance." In the old days, it was more an artifact of the the cartridge on vinyl, often. Also, characteristic of poor pressings when played on good equipment.

In that case, the only answer is to turn down the HF....

[edgewound]

I'll try this suggestion first, thank you.
Since the speakers are rather old, I think doing this should improve the sound.
My speaker does not have any switch, but I'll clean the speaker binding post and the frequency level adjust.

Maybe it's time to freshen-up with new diaphragms D8R2416H-1. Also....one of the problems many home listeners discover with professional studio monitors is discovering no-so-good recordings.

[DavidF]

Yeah, it's nice not having to defend anything. I just spew out whatever comes to mind. :p

I thought it was just your "dry" wit.

DavidF

[DavidF]

My JBL 4425 pair sounds pretty good. Except the problem above.


This does not sound "normal" to me. It sounds as though you may not have bought these new. If not, any reason to think someone made some modifications to the circuits (like bypassing the horn passive crossover for one thing)? Does this problem seem to be equally effecting both speakers? What type of tweeter or high driver did your system prior to this one use (are your ears accustomed to the horn sound delivery)?

DavidF

[Michael Smith]

Hi
I have a couple of questions for you
Are you in fact residing in Vietnam?
What are the speaker taps on the CA 50 set at? 4 or 8 ohm
Is your gear going to the one AC outlet?

How far away physically is the DAC from the CA 50?
Are you playing western music or indigenous music?
These are not meant to be trick questions but I believe if you can answer them then we may have an idea of what to suggest to make your listening a better deal
Regards
Michael

[tcs]

Hi
I have a couple of questions for you
Are you in fact residing in Vietnam?
What are the speaker taps on the CA 50 set at? 4 or 8 ohm
Is your gear going to the one AC outlet?

How far away physically is the DAC from the CA 50?
Are you playing western music or indigenous music?
These are not meant to be trick questions but I believe if you can answer them then we may have an idea of what to suggest to make your listening a better deal
Regards
Michael

Yes, I'm from Viet Nam.
The speaker taps I used the 8 ohm one, because JBL 4425s are 8 ohm
Yes, one AC outlet and no AC filter used
The DAC is pretty near the amplifier (20 cm)
I listen to many kind of music, both Western and Vietnamese, the problem happend on both kind of music (bad records show more servere problem than good records)

Infact, when I try the Marantz CD 16 alone (without DAC), the sound is less harsh (smoother) than using the Benchmarkmedia DAC1. I think because DAC1 is also a studio product.

About "accustomed to the horn", I have a Grado 125 headphone to compare. The Grado also have some "sibilance" problem, but at a smoother level and easier to forgive. Currently I prefer the sound that the Grado to the JBLs.

I don't know much about crossover and similar things, so I cannot be sure my crossover was modified or not.

I don't know what is a diaphragm too :)

[tcs]

I just lookup on the internet about diaphragm :)
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/graphics_products/2416H_Diaphragm.jpg

[analogbass]

They do have a dry sound, that's an accurate assessment that is in many ways a good characteristic-uncolored, clear and punchy sound. The sibilance is there as well, though it can be adjusted. Midrange is it's least prominent characteristic; get some Tannoys or Dynaudios if this is important-the strengths of the 4425s are appealing conciseness, clarity and punchiness.