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edgewound
09-10-2005, 03:22 PM
I find it interesting that a thread was closed because of purported "JBL bashing" if, in fact, that was the case. I don't think it serves the forum any good, nor does it shine any light on the shortcomings that some of us have had in dealing with the manufacturer, by insulating JBL or Harman from the truth. Hence...there wasn't any product derision that I could see going on...it's no secret to any of us that there is alot of frustration with the availabilty and marketing/distribution of these great products, and how the organization projects an "I don't care about you" attitude. I've had numerous JBL end-user customers that have said the treatment they get from JBL Consumer is horrendous and stopped buying their products...seemingly endless wait-times on hold...and if the call is ever answered...it seems like they're bothering someone in customer service, or some other dept. We all know that this problem is not just isolated to JBL or Harman...but...why can't a huge multinational conglomerate take this forum as a sampler as to how they're performing in the field. It is truly a very valuable source of customer satisfaction and or marketing data that they can get for FREE!!!

If the sole purpose of this forum is bow to the powers that be at JBL/Harman, and simply tell them how great they are all the time, and never express any negative feelings that this company has planted by their own actions, or lack of...then we all just become head nodders. The forum is supposed to be a free exchange of thoughts...within the boundaries of public decency... and not totally sanitized.

Thanks for reading my thoughts.

Moderators feel free to move this to a different area should you see fit.

Mr. Widget
09-10-2005, 03:39 PM
In an effort to redeem my tendency to go Off Topic, I moved Edgewound's post for a potentially good discussion here where it belongs in the Forum Issues area.

With luck we will not veer OT or worse...

Widget

Mr. Widget
09-10-2005, 03:42 PM
I find it interesting that a thread was closed because of purported "JBL bashing" ...
I am not sure if it was the bashing itself so much as just the messy nature of the discussion and the fact that we had privileged info on the Array Series and there was concern that perhaps we should hold back on the Corporate Slamming since it was privileged info that was given to us out of courtesy.

Widget

Don McRitchie
09-10-2005, 04:01 PM
If the sole purpose of this forum is bow to the powers that be at JBL/Harman, and simply tell them how great they are all the time, and never express any negative feelings that this company has planted by their own actions, or lack of...then we all just become head nodders. The forum is supposed to be a free exchange of thoughts...within the boundaries of public decency... and not totally sanitized.

In the history of this site, we have never censored any posts because of a negative comment regarding JBL. To their credit, JBL has never asked for any editorial control over what happens on this forum. This remains true for the subject thread. The original posts are still visible to anyone that wants to read them. The issue is that the discussion had long veered off of the original topic and had degenerated to the point that any productive discourse had been lost. Anyone is free to express their opinion, positive or negative. However, if it gets to the state where the noise outweighs the signal, we will intervene to try and maintain some sembalence of order.

scott fitlin
09-10-2005, 04:16 PM
OK, I am partly to blame here too! I took part in some posts I found funny, and added to the mess. I guess I should have thought more, but what can I say?

It really was, on my part, all in good nature.

I still want to hear these new speakers, because I really am looking for new speakers for my new place! On one hand I have thought about finding and getting a good set of L-300,s, and on the other hand, I want to see whats new and sounds good too!

Of course, I am glad to see JBL endeavoring to re enter the high end market here in the U.S.

Earl K
09-10-2005, 04:46 PM
FWIW :

- I started the Array thread . I thought it was a good news story .

- And I support the timely closing of that thread .

- It did become apparent ( to others in the know, like Lancer ) that JBL didn't have all their ducks in a row. A widely anticipated product release had just stumbled out of the gate. This coupled with peoples natural tendencies to take JBL to the mat ( for all the expressed reasons ) was creating a "Toxic Mix" within that thread. Peolple were starting to kick the "runner before he had even left the gate".
- I'm glad that it was stopped .

- I have never seen any signs of censorship around here and I'm pretty watchful.

- As Don just said and has been shown time & time again, people can air-out their grievances about JBL / but there's a time and place . If you want to do it / I believe it's best placed in a new thread ,,, where it's clear what the topic of discussion is .

EDIT : ( next day )- Okay, I'm no longer ticked off about this subject . ;)

:p

Mr. Widget
09-10-2005, 05:18 PM
Dear Ticked off right now,

Please be advised that others appreciate your sharing the partial unveiling of the Array Series. I expect that since it has become more unveiled and Techbot has posted even more information sent us from Northridge, we should reopen the discussion and try to stay more on topic.

As I have said to others I am enthusiastic that JBL has explored this area and come to market with them. It is also encouraging to see that the Performance Series which has a small but dedicated fan base here on our forum is now also featured on the JBL Consumer website.

Widget

edgewound
09-10-2005, 05:45 PM
Maybe...just maybe...a little healthy discourse caused the Techbot to throw the forum a bone and release some juicy tech details to keep the natives from getting too restless...and to provide some proof that the Project Array Series is more than a "racecar-like-showpiece of vaporware" that JBL connoisseur's can actually own. There has been a true domestic dearth of recent product offerings that JBL has marketed since the demise of the "L-Series", that has been truly worthy of "Lansing's Heritage". I sincerely hope that this company, that is loaded with engineering and design talent, actually shares this stuff with the homeland audience for domestic consumption...at reasonable pricepoints. Does anyone think that is an unreasonable expectation? And please display at the CES show in January to prove you're still in the business.

Lancer
09-10-2005, 07:18 PM
If the sole purpose of this forum is bow to the powers that be at JBL/Harman, and simply tell them how great they are all the time, and never express any negative feelings that this company has planted by their own actions, or lack of...then we all just become head nodders.We've had plenty of negative things to say about JBL as a typical company operating in today's world over the past five years. From my personal perspective JBL is definitely less than the sum of it's parts (people). That's just the way companies get. I suspect it's part of their lifecycle.

Once again - JBL made one request over a year ago with respect to Project Array and we had no problems with honoring that request. The recent thread was asked to be closed by me due to that request from over a year ago along with an incident last year that involved Harman Japan posting about new product before the damn drivers were even out of R&D! I knew Project Array was close but, to be blunt, the JBL website is a bit premature. Case in point, few Dealers and fewer Service Centers seem to know anything about Project Array beyond what they might have read or seen at a previous show. Normal channels at JBL remain tight lipped about it. I suspect that's because they don't even know about it. Since alot of people at Harman look over this site regularly (and send emails to each other about it), there's probably a growing awareness there about Project Array now. :p

Maybe...just maybe...a little healthy discourse caused the Techbot to throw the forum a bone and release some juicy tech details to keep the natives from getting too restless...and to provide some proof that the Project Array Series is more than a "racecar-like-showpiece of vaporware" that JBL connoisseur's can actually own.I suspect Techbot pretty much does what he feels like doing and is primarily driven by whim. He's little more than a glorified trashcan so I would probably steer clear of trying to figure out why he does what he does.

edgewound
09-10-2005, 09:34 PM
Thanks for your insight and response, Lancer:)

Ian Mackenzie
09-11-2005, 05:31 PM
I am not sure if it was the bashing itself so much as just the messy nature of the discussion and the fact that we had privileged info on the Array Series and there was concern that perhaps we should hold back on the Corporate Slamming since it was privileged info that was given to us out of courtesy.

Widget

Yes it reminds me of "Yes Prime Minister"...a British comedy.

Prime Minister, as Permanent Head of the Department I often obtain privileged and often sensitive information. The Foreign Office is still preparing
an official statement on it Sir.

But Permanent Head, we know the assembly already has caught a glimpse of this. What is your advise?

Well Prime Minister Politically speaking Sir, its a bit awkward.

You see I already promised them we would shut up about it and I hate breaking promises. They might not tell me any more secrets if my promise is broken.

The problem is if we say something now it won't be privileged information anymore.

But Permanent Head, what if the assembly says something that might be privileged information. What will we do then?

Nothing Prime Minister. We have the advantage of privileged information.

Let them just argue over who thinks they know what......that's usually what happens. It will be such a mess know one will know what's going on and we will close the discussion on that basis.

Well make sure you tell all the departments about the plan, I hate to see this aired in public, we don't want the Foreign Office to know anything about this.

morbo!
11-03-2005, 12:52 AM
somthing free usually keeps my mouth shut
:rotfl: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=7#)

Ian Mackenzie
11-03-2005, 03:59 AM
Yeah well anything like this is about as controllable as a fart on the forums and it ends up being a contest...to see who can out do each other much to the disgust of the privileged minority. The facts eventually come out and the air is cleared so to speak....:rotfl:

Ian
.

JuniorJBL
11-03-2005, 08:15 AM
OK, I am partly to blame here too! I took part in some posts I found funny, and added to the mess. I guess I should have thought more, but what can I say?

It really was, on my part, all in good nature.



I as well am guilty of doing this and am sorry.:o:

DRG
11-03-2005, 09:30 AM
A very few members of the Array Series have rolled through production. I'm not exactly sure how many or who they are going to.

The biggest problem I had with the Array thread was it's overall tone. It simply wasn't called for this early in the game. The designer is extremely pleased with how the Series turned out. I personally think it is a very exciting Series. Hopefully Harman will market it vigorously.

Tom Loizeaux
11-03-2005, 05:01 PM
[QUOTE:
I suspect Techbot pretty much does what he feels like doing and is primarily driven by whim. He's little more than a glorified trashcan so I would probably steer clear of trying to figure out why he does what he does. QUOTE]

This is most likely an unfair staement and certainly isn't shared by most of us. Let's keep our posts polite, respectful and fair. We should give eachother the "benefit of the doubt" and not pass judgement on others.

Tom

Lancer
11-03-2005, 06:33 PM
:rotfl:

Tom, it was a joke...

Ian Mackenzie
11-03-2005, 06:40 PM
Probably has more to do with having a leg on both sides of the fence.

:blink:

Lancer
11-03-2005, 06:42 PM
It's just amazing how what I think is hilarious is so offensive to other people. :p
I offer a formal apology to Techbot and hope he will accept it. :cheers:

Ian Mackenzie
11-03-2005, 06:49 PM
It's just amazing how what I think is hilarious is so offensive to other people. :p
I offer a formal apology to Techbot and hope he will accept it. :cheers:

Thats a first.

What you are drinking?

Three cheers!:cheers:

Lancer
11-03-2005, 06:51 PM
Apple Cider.

I think it's spiked...

spkrman57
11-04-2005, 04:56 AM
I damn near fell out of my chair reading the last few thread posts.

I never heard "techbot" complain about anything, must have a good sense of humor! :p

Ron

morbo!
11-05-2005, 07:41 PM
i agree i have a great time sitting here atm
drinking beer listening to neil young (greendale)on my jbl`s
and reading your damb funny posts hope mine are slightly entertaining!:D

MAyBE a few apoligys in order after posts and views about subs after playing with smaartlive for awhile im getting a real grip on whats happening

just that most aussies are real dumb asses. not really, it`s just that you work a hard hot day and dont really give a crap about anything else(i used to be like it (coke ovens in aus))cant find a burning devil emoticon

most people here (in my town any way)got a terribly matched sub in thier house cause they trying to match that stupid annoying sound that thay got in their car!

morbo!

p.s no offence to any aussie`s on this forum i know people with great taste in their equiptment and music just the avarage person im talking about! that annoying dick who keeps moving in across the street:banghead:

Ian Mackenzie
11-05-2005, 08:24 PM
Yep,

I subscribe to all the above..at times ....apparently