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View Full Version : What is todays match to d120f?



gman
08-25-2005, 08:44 AM
Does anybody know or have any suggestions on today’s match to the d120f. I am redoing a 1968 fender twin that had two d120f in the factory release of this amp. I would like less highs in the sound of the current speakers which is one original d120f and one replacement of a 12” Pyle driver.

Mr. Widget
08-25-2005, 10:45 AM
I am not a guitarist nor musician, but I am under the impression that the highs are what drew people to the JBL D series. Maybe you should try Eminence or Celestion woofers if you think the JBL sound too bright?


Widget

scott fitlin
08-25-2005, 11:34 AM
Does anybody know or have any suggestions on today’s match to the d120f. I am redoing a 1968 fender twin that had two d120f in the factory release of this amp. I would like less highs in the sound of the current speakers which is one original d120f and one replacement of a 12” Pyle driver.You could recone the JBL 120 and have a paper dustcap put on, instead of the aluminum! The aluminum dustcap does radiate alot of HF energy! Just a thought!

57BELAIRE
08-25-2005, 01:50 PM
I am not a guitarist nor musician, but I am under the impression that the highs are what drew people to the JBL D series. Maybe you should try Eminence or Celestion woofers if you think the JBL sound too bright?


Widget

These are good choices...Oxford and Jensen's were the norm, but 120's
in a Twin can be lethal at close range:D

I think Ted Nugent used two stacks of D120 equipped Twins....as part of his glass-shattering demonstration!

:rockon1: :rockon1: :rockon1: :rockon1:

edgewound
08-25-2005, 02:07 PM
There is no current match to the D120F...the E120 is as close as it gets, and it's been discontinued...unfortunately.:( As scotty said your D120F could be reconed with a paper dust cap to calm down the highs. PM me if you'd like more info.


Thanks

GordonW
08-25-2005, 02:23 PM
Also, if you need a second driver, an E120, 2202H, 2203H, 2204H, D131 or D120 basket can be reconed to "match" your existing D120... that'd give you two of the same type, if you got them reconed with the same kits (paper dustcap, et al). The D120 or D131 would be preferable (alnico magnet), but any of those should work well.

Regards,
Gordon.

Zilch
08-25-2005, 07:36 PM
We don't know but that the "excessive highs" are coming from the Pyle.

I'd watch for a mate to the D120F on eBay and try that first.

My Ultra Chorus is loaded with K120's and sounds totally "Vintage."

"Where're ya gettin' that SOUND?"

"I'll tell you after you carry this amp out to my car...." :p

LE15-Thumper
08-26-2005, 03:11 AM
A 2206 would work pretty good. Nice fast transient response, handles gobs of power.

speakerdave
08-26-2005, 07:37 AM
Here's a D131 frame on ebay going off tomorrow.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5801604328&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

edgewound
08-26-2005, 12:27 PM
A 2206 would work pretty good. Nice fast transient response, handles gobs of power.

Bass guitar yes...but not lead or rhythm

johnaec
08-26-2005, 12:39 PM
I have a pair of alnico K120's that have paper domes installed instead of aluminum. I'm not interested in selling them, but would trade them for a pair of E120's or 220XH's if anyone's interested. They were complete recones, but I specified paper instead of aluminum for the domes.

Edit: Actually, I would sell them as a pair for about $225, seeing as that's about the going price for E120's, etc., which seem to be fairly available...

John

Zilch
08-26-2005, 05:17 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-D120F-weber-recone-great-condition_W0QQitemZ7346350168QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-D120F-original-cone-great-condition_W0QQitemZ7346343605QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

edgewound
08-26-2005, 06:19 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-D120F-weber-recone-great-condition_W0QQitemZ7346350168QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-D120F-original-cone-great-condition_W0QQitemZ7346343605QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

Neither one of these has JBL parts...the bottom one states original cone....I don't think so!!! The lead wires through the front of the cone are definitely not factory work. I'd stay away from this one.

GordonW
08-26-2005, 10:44 PM
I have a pair of alnico K120's that have paper domes installed instead of aluminum. I'm not interested in selling them, but would trade them for a pair of E120's or 220XH's if anyone's interested. They were complete recones, but I specified paper instead of aluminum for the domes.

Edit: Actually, I would sell them as a pair for about $225, seeing as that's about the going price for E120's, etc., which seem to be fairly available...

John

This sounds like the best plan, to me. You could probably turn around and sell the one factory Fender D120F, and recoup a good part of that money...

Regards,
Gordon.

johnaec
08-26-2005, 11:07 PM
This sounds like the best plan, to me. You could probably turn around and sell the one factory Fender D120F, and recoup a good part of that money...ish I could sell those in the next hour so I could get these, (currently at $164/pair, but 'don't want to go out on a limb...): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7345695907&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

John

Zilch
08-27-2005, 10:52 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-JBL-D120F-Speaker-12-Perfect-2_W0QQitemZ7346629019QQcategoryZ47094QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-JBL-D120F-Speaker-12-Perfect_W0QQitemZ7346628760QQcategoryZ47094QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

Tom Loizeaux
08-28-2005, 08:39 AM
I think I'd have the D120Fs re-coned with quality genaric cone kits. I've found these genarics to be a little less bright then the originals...and probably closer to the sound you're after.
Check with Orange County Speaker Repair.

Tom

gman
08-29-2005, 08:30 AM
Thanks to you all for the great information................

It has been very helpful I have been searching all over trying get this kind of information and now I have found it.

watchman
09-13-2005, 08:51 PM
hey gman,

if you have a pair of JBL D120F speakers, with original cones, please keep them together, or sell them to me.

the advice to have one reconed, might kill some of the highs, and wipeout the intrinsic value of the speakers at the same time. there just are not that many original examples left out there.

i play a '68 twin reverb and use JBLs for surf, so I would love to buy yours. then, you can turn around a buy a set of Eminence or Celestion 12"s. The Celestions have that old marshall sound, and the Eminence have terrific mids.

feel free to message or email me.

... watchman

Tom Loizeaux
09-13-2005, 09:25 PM
hey gman,

...the advice to have one reconed, might kill some of the highs, and wipeout the intrinsic value of the speakers at the same time. there just are not that many original examples left out there.
... watchman

I re-read the first post, and he has only one D120F. I have to agree with the above quote that keeping the correct, original cone in a working D120F is the right thing to do.
You could sell the D120F and buy a mate for other speaker, or buy matched pair of almost anything else for the same money!

Tom

GordonW
09-13-2005, 10:56 PM
I re-read the first post, and he has only one D120F. I have to agree with the above quote that keeping the correct, original cone in a working D120F is the right thing to do.
You could sell the D120F and buy a mate for other speaker, or buy matched pair of almost anything else for the same money!

Tom

That's what I'm talking about! Sell the one original D120F as-is, buy a pair of reconable baskets (2202/2203/2204/D120/D131/121A/124H), and have them reconed with new kits, including paper dustcaps or whatever. Should wind up with not much out-of-pocket expense, if you play your cards right...

Regards,
Gordon.

Sausagefingers
09-14-2005, 10:09 AM
There is no current match to the D120F...the E120 is as close as it gets, and it's been discontinued...unfortunately

....that the E140 is as close as it gets to the D140F?

Thanks for your time

Sausagefngers

scott fitlin
09-14-2005, 10:59 AM
http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm

Beyma is manufacturing this clone of the JBL E-120. They seem pricy, but not overly so, how true to the real thing? I have no idea! But Beyma cone drivers are well regarded in pro circles.

Click on Beyma, and scroll down, the Liberty 8 is the E120 clone!

edgewound
09-14-2005, 11:17 AM
....that the E140 is as close as it gets to the D140F?

Thanks for your time

Sausagefngers

Yes....that's right:)

Mr. Widget
09-14-2005, 11:46 AM
I find it hard to believe that the guitar speaker market is not big enough to support JBL's staying in the market. After all they have done the R&D... the products are out there.

Maybe it is the cost of doing business these days...

edgewound
09-14-2005, 12:01 PM
I don't get it either....other than the fact that the E-series list price was getting beyond unreasonable and rather than lower prices to attainable levels...the "right" thing to do was too kill the product line. Sounds like another brilliant move by an MBA business analyst to make customers go away. Oh well....more business for Eminence. Did you know that JBL actually used Eminence in the first "TR" series?...but quit when dealers started to complain:blink: .

scott fitlin
09-14-2005, 12:04 PM
Thats an interesting point, Widget! According to JBL, they couldnt sell enough of the E series to warrant continued manufacture of them! OTOH, once they were gone, many still wanted them it seems, so much so, that Beyma makes their own version, and a distributor here sells them!

The DJ market also had an item just like this, the Urei 1620, which they claimed they werent selling enough of, and they couldnt charge enough money for, and couldnt compete with Rane or Numark, and discontinued production in 1993, and right after they discontinued them, the value and demand for them soared! Even back in 1995, a mint Urei with 3 phono cards was going for $2500! And consider that this mixer sold for $1100 brand new, in 1993, an additional $110 for the third phono card! Ebay prices for these units went through the roof, and were hot like fire for the longest.

Then last winter, Harman announced the re-issue of the Urei 1620LE by Soundcraft! They did a run of 1000 of these designed here long ago, and now assembled in China units, and they have sold out of the mixers! I think there may be another production run scheduled!

Point is, they sold well, even in a market usually demanding far more feature laden mixers, they sold fast, oh and, they are good, too!

I believe JBL could do limited production runs of certain items from the past, that are in demand, and profit!

edgewound
09-14-2005, 03:07 PM
I don't get it either....other than the fact that the E-series list price was getting beyond unreasonable and rather than lower prices to attainable levels...the "right" thing to do was too kill the product line. Sounds like another brilliant move by an MBA business analyst to make customers go away. Oh well....more business for Eminence. Did you know that JBL actually used Eminence in the first "TR" series?...but quit when dealers started to complain:blink: .

Kind of sad to think about it...the E-Series was a direct descendant of the very first product line that JBL manufactured and was laid to rest after some 50+ years of production and the E145 was the latest edition of the highly coveted 150-4C. IMHO, it's not very good business heritage/history sense to eliminate the product line that is so far reaching, successful, built the company....and was built so damn good.

Mr. Widget
09-14-2005, 03:59 PM
Kind of sad to think about it...the E-Series was a direct descendant of the very first product line that JBL manufactured...

I agree completely.

That said, I am surprised and grateful that this mega corporation still stands behind many of their products from the 50's and 60's. Fact of the matter, you wouldn't be able to repair those old D130s with factory original parts if JBL wasn't interested in offering support that is way beyond that offered by almost every other American company.

I would expect that if enough demand develops, JBL will run the E Series again to satisfy that demand. I hope they do.

Widget

edgewound
09-14-2005, 04:02 PM
I agree completely.

That said, I am surprised and grateful that this mega corporation still stands behind many of their products from the 50's and 60's. Fact of the matter, you wouldn't be able to repair those old D130s with factory original parts if JBL wasn't interested in offering support that is way beyond that offered by almost every other American company.

I would expect that if enough demand develops, JBL will run the E Series again to satisfy that demand. I hope they do.

Widget

I have to agree with you on that, whole-heartedly. I love the products and the company...sometimes the corporate evolution in the interest of staying in business is hard to accept.

scott fitlin
09-14-2005, 05:54 PM
I agree completely.

That said, I am surprised and grateful that this mega corporation still stands behind many of their products from the 50's and 60's. Fact of the matter, you wouldn't be able to repair those old D130s with factory original parts if JBL wasn't interested in offering support that is way beyond that offered by almost every other American company.

I would expect that if enough demand develops, JBL will run the E Series again to satisfy that demand. I hope they do.

WidgetIll be the first in line for the E-145! They are great for me, I like that type of sound!

johnaec
09-14-2005, 05:58 PM
E-145's (not mine): http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Beautiful-JBL-Model-E145-8-15-Woofer-Speakers_W0QQitemZ5808656726QQcategoryZ50597QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

scott fitlin
09-14-2005, 06:42 PM
E-145's (not mine): http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Beautiful-JBL-Model-E145-8-15-Woofer-Speakers_W0QQitemZ5808656726QQcategoryZ50597QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

JohnNice examples, but the listing state 13.2 and 13.6 ohm DCR,s indicating 16 ohm woofers, even though the model is labeled E-145-8!

Must have been reconed at some point in their life!

Thanks for the heads up, though!

Mr. Widget
09-14-2005, 06:49 PM
I noticed that too... one is obviously reconed, or at least has the puddle of glue around the dust cap that we all too often see... the other looks nice. They are from different eras too...


Widget

scott fitlin
09-14-2005, 06:54 PM
I noticed that too... one is obviously reconed, or at least has the puddle of glue around the dust cap that we all too often see... the other looks nice. They are from different eras too...


WidgetAccording to JBL tech sheets on TS specs, the 8 ohm E-145 should have a RE of 5.7 ohms, and I dont see a 16 ohm version listed!

You look at the E-155 and there are two, a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm E-155!

Maybe JBL did E-145,s in 16ohm as a special order?

Yes, I also see the two cones dont look exactly alike! But that could also be the light, they have the same type of surround and look like the same type of cones. The one on the left has sloppy gluework around the dustcap as you pointed out, most likely that didnt come from the factory!

edgewound
09-14-2005, 07:56 PM
According to JBL tech sheets on TS specs, the 8 ohm E-145 should have a RE of 5.7 ohms, and I dont see a 16 ohm version listed!

You look at the E-155 and there are two, a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm E-155!

Maybe JBL did E-145,s in 16ohm as a special order?

Yes, I also see the two cones dont look exactly alike! But that could also be the light, they have the same type of surround and look like the same type of cones. The one on the left has sloppy gluework around the dustcap as you pointed out, most likely that didnt come from the factory!

Hey Guys...

The E145 was offered as a 16 ohm. One of these eBay examples was mfgd 1/23/86 (metal terminals), the other 2/27/89 (plastic terminals). Both have been reconed with a C16RE145 kit...too bad the seller didn't go into detail on the impedance. The 16 ohm kit is still on the parts list. To the eBayer's credit though, he did post some nice pics.:applaud:

scott fitlin
09-14-2005, 08:03 PM
Ive bought from them before! They are good, always got items that were as they said they were!

mixsit
09-15-2005, 12:11 AM
Or option D; I pulled the D-120's out of the Twin I used years ago and replaced it with a single D-130.
Yes, it was a bit mellower tone, but I did it to save the frickin' fourteen lbs!
(The 120's now do monitor duties with the 075's..:D
Wayne
just for grins and history fun, the band I was in prior to the above 'begining to get a clue' ran all Sunn cabs; Guitar 1 - 2 (D-15s IIRC), guitar 2 -4 D15's, bass 4 D-140, 2 D130's.
Fun times then..:blink:

JimDaddario
07-01-2009, 12:57 PM
I am looking for a D120F in good condition, if anyone has one to sell. .

jd

jcrobso
07-09-2009, 01:46 PM
D120F with the original cone are BIG$$. Also consider K120s.

brad347
07-09-2009, 07:38 PM
I realize this is an old thread that has been bumped and the OP is probably not in need of help anymore, but for future reference--

Weber speakers makes a D120F-style replacement called the California. No, it is not exactly the same as a real JBL but it will get you in the ballpark and is a very very nice guitar amp speaker. You can also order it with different dust caps if you do not want the brightness of the aluminum one. He even offers a ceramic-magnet version which is a bit more economical.

Not sure if he uses ribbon wire or an edgewound voice coil. Maybe one day I will e-mail to ask him.

His 'claim to fame' is his copies of the Chicago-era alnico Jensen "concert series" speakers like the P10Q, etc, but the Californias are pretty nice too.

www.tedweber.com/

macaroonie
07-10-2009, 04:32 AM
This fellow seems to have some interesting stuff

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/kennedy-alpha-f120-8-pa-speaker-12_W0QQitemZ110313052476QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item19af2b993c&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30

midlife
07-10-2009, 01:36 PM
K120s any good? Are they suitable to use as replacement LF drivers in JBL vintage three way systems (12" L systems for instance)?

jcrobso
07-10-2009, 01:54 PM
K120s any good? Are they suitable to use as replacement LF drivers in JBL vintage three way systems (12" L systems for instance)?

The K120 is great guitar speaker, I don't think it would be a good replacement for an L system.