PDA

View Full Version : Mini altec iconic?



doucanoe
08-21-2005, 11:44 PM
Hi guys, I picked these up locally over the weekend (cabs only). They look just like my Iconics except smaller. Previous owner said they originally housed a 15" bi-flex that he sold leaving with the cabs only.

I was originally thinking about replacing the front panel for a 2 or 3-way using a 12" woofer instead of the 15". After giving it some though, Im entertaining turning one or both into subwoofers to use with my Iconics.

A few questions if I may.

1) Do you think It would make sense to find and put Altec or EV 15" woofers back in these instead of changing the panel to accomidate a 12". Or would the cost outweigh the benefit when used as a subwoofer only?
2) The cabinet appears to have 5-ports as you can see by the pic. Was the 15" that was in here originally a full range?
3) Would it make sense to block all or some of these for use as a sub?

As Im typing this Im thinking this might belong in the Technical area. If a mod. needs to move it please do so.

Any info on these or comments regarding my insane ramblings would be appreciated.
thanks
RC

Zilch
08-22-2005, 12:08 AM
Compute the internal cabinet volume in cuft. and post it here.

They look too short for anything other than sub duty.

Might be able to fit a tweeter into the top center "port," tho.

Do you care if JBL goes in 'em rather than Altec?

Ports will have to be tuned with ducts.

What are the port diameters?

Do you have a pair of Sub1500's to put in 'em? :D

Post the outside dimensions as well....

doucanoe
08-22-2005, 09:27 AM
Hey thanks a heep Zilch, I will measure them up tonight after I get home and post.

As far as the woofer's themselves are concerned, Im open to pretty much anything as long as I can accomplish the goal. JBL's would be great if I could find a pair.

RC

Zilch
08-22-2005, 10:36 AM
Good deal. I'm sure this forum can come up with a plan for you.

You'll need to give us an idea of your budget for the project, tho....

Please enable location display in your profile so we know where you are.

Click "User CP," above, to do it.... :)

spkrman57
08-22-2005, 11:03 AM
The cabinets designed for Altec drivers were usually mounted behind the front baffle board. Altec drivers have a mounting flange that is rather WIDE which means if you mount a JBL driver the same way you will encounter the surrounds slapping the front baffle board.

Altec drivers measured at 16" have around 13 7/8" actual cone/surround area, JBL drivers have a very NARROW mounting flange(meaning more actual cone area for the same "published" size driver vs the Altecs). I found this out by accident while using a JBL 2226 in a Altec A8 enclosure originally made for a Altec 416 driver.

I now measure instead of guessing or assuming!

Ron

doucanoe
08-22-2005, 11:58 AM
Well Ron, I guess that narrows down the options if I dont want to modify the baffle. Helpful bit of info. thanks much:)

RC

Zilch
08-22-2005, 12:11 PM
I guess that narrows down the options if I dont want to modify the baffle. Not necessarily. Get us the woofer cutout diameter as Ron suggests, as well, and the mounting screw location diameter.... :)

doucanoe
08-22-2005, 06:43 PM
Well, I believe that I have all the particulars. Please excuse the caveman napkin sketch. :D

I couldnt really get accurate measurements for the (4) round port locations but as you can see in the photo they are more or less in the corners. Im not sure how critical their location is.

The dim's are for box size inside and out. Not taking into account the stops for the baffle and back panel. Also does the insulation material used reduce the internal volume in the calculation?

RC

Zilch
08-22-2005, 07:37 PM
Recommended baffle cutout diameter for 2235H rear mounted, for example, is 13-1/2" and the bolt circle is 14-9/16". 2226H wants 14-9/64", same bolt circle. So, you're probably good to go with some JBL 15" drivers there as far as mechanical fitting is concerned.

The insulation actually adds to the apparent volume of the box, but the port tubes will subtract from it, not as much, probably. Need to find some cardboard or plastic tubing with 2-1/8" OD to use for ports that'll just slip into the 4 corner locations. Glue to seal when everything's final.

The rectangular "port" was for a tweeter, possibly. The forum will have some suggestions if you want to go two-way. For "vintage" JBL, maybe an 077 will fit there. :)

For sub duty, first shot, here's 2235H in two configurations:

Blue = 24 Hz with Q=2 HP filter at 25 Hz. Four 2" bent ports at 15"
Red = 29 Hz tuning, no filter. Four 2" ports at 10.5"

LE14's will play nicely as subs in those boxes, as well, probably, using diameter adapter baffles.

Others here are way better than me at box design, but this'll illustrate some possibilities for your cabinets:

doucanoe
08-22-2005, 09:04 PM
Zilch, I guess what you are saying is that it will work.

Now it should only take me 6-7 weeks to digest and recover from the information you provided.:D

Im sure it will all make sense to me in due time. Now Zilch my friend, what is my next step?

Thanks for the good news.
Ron

Zilch
08-22-2005, 10:33 PM
Now Zilch my friend, what is my next step?I think you'll want to wait a bit before deciding anything. There are many forum members who are more familiar with Altec components than myself who may have other suggestions.

For example, there's probably a vintage Altec tweeter or substitue that will fit perfectly in the rectangular opening there to make a "correct" two-way. Some research of the Altec archives here and elsewhere may reveal what model that actually is and what components came with it. You may want to restore them rather than make them into something else. Perhaps the person you bought them from has more information, even an old brochure, maybe.

I've tried to address your main question, which was whether they could work as decent speakers, and the answer is "Yes." I've done that from the perspective of JBL components, with which I'm more familiar. Others here may have better ideas than this, and I hope they'll contribute them here for you.

In the meantime, you need to be thinking about what you want or need them to be. They can be decent subwoofers, or two-, perhaps three-ways, a second system. Even though they are short, a tweeter at the very top there is likely workable in the right listening setup. A two-way would require an extended range bass/mid driver, but there are several vintage 15" JBL's that would work. There's some nice Altec's, probably, too.

Oh, and be on the lookout for some 2-1/8" diameter tubing.... :p

doucanoe
08-22-2005, 10:58 PM
Ok then, I have so many speakers that I would really like to persue the subwoofer angle. You have been very helpful and have gotten me off to a great start.
I will keep ya posted as to where this ends up.

Thanks again
Ron

Zilch
08-22-2005, 11:04 PM
I have so many speakers that I would really like to persue the subwoofer angle. Fine. Block the rectangular hole from inside, put 10.5" long 2" ID ducts in the four corner holes and pop a pair of 2235H's in them.

If they were here, I'd be listening to them right now.... :p

doucanoe
08-23-2005, 07:49 AM
Fine. Block the rectangular hole from inside, put 10.5" long 2" ID ducts in the four corner holes and pop a pair of 2235H's in them.

If they were here, I'd be listening to them right now....


Now im off to find some of those JBLs or Altecs, I found a couple pair of the woofers on the bay and BOY WHOOY those babys are not cheap are they!

Should a guy be paying upwards of $250.00 american for those. Im not at all opposed to the notion but is that pretty typical for the 2235H woofer pairs?

RC

Regis
08-23-2005, 07:53 AM
You might try Craigslist as well http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html
Certainly better deals if you have the patience and persistence. The price is about right for Ebay and they are what they are because of what they are. High quality, American made and beautiful sounding bass.

Alex Lancaster
08-23-2005, 09:16 AM
:) As Regis says, with patience You will come across decent priced 2235H's; I canīt think of an Altec that wil get close for sub use.

Zilch
08-23-2005, 09:42 AM
Yup, last pair I bought were $300, and I considered them a bargain.

It costs that much to have a pair reconed now. Cone kit prices went up last month.

There's no substitute, really. Some others come close, but they're even more "dear."

I don't know what you paid for those cabinets, but a SINGLE B380 sub with 2235H in it in nasty condition would cost about what you'll pay for a pair of the drivers you'll need to make really nice subs outta these.

doucanoe
08-23-2005, 11:23 AM
What ever the drivers end up being, I believe that I will be driving them with a Crown ComTech 200 or similar with a AMX PIP card set to correct room dim's and frequency.

I really like the idea of using the 2235H but having listened to the 4430 ( I believe thats what it was?) Im wondering if that woofer was designed to go as low as I would like it to go.

I might just end up with another woofer in altec cabs acomplishing the same result for less $. I have never built one of these or any speaker for that matter so I would hate to screw it up.

Im just getting started so there is time to figure the whole thing out.

By the way, I paid $150.00 for the cabinets with a pair of Electro Voice 8HD horns and 1828R drivers thrown in for good measure. Normally I would be reluctant to pay that much for cabs only but they matched my Iconics.

I was helpless!!:D

RC

Chas
08-23-2005, 11:33 AM
I have no doubt a 2235H would work nicely. A SUB-1500 with the box sealed up and crossed over at 40Hz with no EQ would be lovely.

doucanoe
08-23-2005, 09:58 PM
Holy Cow chas,
I wasnt sure what you were getting at when you were refering to a "sub-1500".
Looked it up, all sold out at PE but that beast looks like it goes about as low as low can go:D

Now that would be a interesting alternative.

Ron

Zilch
08-23-2005, 11:36 PM
Looked it up, all sold out at PE....And this forum got most of 'em.

Heh, heh....

doucanoe
08-24-2005, 07:27 PM
JBL 2235H pair on e-bay

$375.00 and climbing :eek:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5800353680&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
RC

Chas
08-25-2005, 06:43 AM
Holy Cow chas,
I wasnt sure what you were getting at when you were refering to a "sub-1500".
Looked it up, all sold out at PE but that beast looks like it goes about as low as low can go:D

Now that would be a interesting alternative.

Ron

Oh yeah, talk about rattling the teacups! 18 Hz in my room is no problem.....

doodlebug
08-25-2005, 01:09 PM
a set of Altec Valencia cabinets. The external cabinet, that is. Internally, its clear that the speaker baffle is set up for a coaxial driver rather than a woofer and horn. The baffles in those aren't what I've seen for either versions of the Valencias. Is the front grille wooden or plastic and are they in good shape - as in no breaks in the mesh?

Cheers,

David

doucanoe
08-25-2005, 01:23 PM
Doodlebug, The Iconics (valencias) I am running are in the left in the pic.

The cabs thet I am turning into subwoofers are the smaller cabs to the right.

Same design but much smaller.

Thanks

Ron

doucanoe
08-25-2005, 06:03 PM
The grilles were not available for either set. The previous owner had done the grille (cloth) work himself. I just fine tuned his work.

The story was that their was a 15" Altec bi-flex in each one but who knows. If you look at the center rectangular port there are no fastener holes for a tweeter or anything for that matter. Somewhat of a mystery to me?



RC

Todd W. White
09-14-2005, 11:18 AM
I owned a pair of those at one time - they had the Altec 420A "Biflex" Speaker in them.

Sounded pretty good, actually.

And they're pretty...

MartinV56
10-26-2011, 04:46 PM
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4937/page121d.jpg


In memoriam Zilch, thanks friend


better late than never

1968 enclosure plans
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/plans/1968-plans.htm

861B enclosure