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Audiobeer
07-28-2005, 04:54 PM
Big Thanks to JBLnsince1959 for his hospitality. Left 6:30 am and got back at 5PM. Rick is a great person to talk to, has a passion for his JBLs, and a lot of knowledge to boot. I was very impressed with his setup......so much so that when he left the room I was just about out the door with it all when his gaurd dog pounced on me. Here is a pic where the L-300s had been. If you own a pair of L-300s please don't ask me how they compare. P.S. Those Performance series speakers I also got a listen to just flat out do things right!
:applaud:

Lancer
07-28-2005, 04:57 PM
Sweet! :applaud:


Ok, I will admit that I did feel a pang at the sight of the 4430's. :wave: :rotfl:

JBLnsince1959
07-28-2005, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the kind words... It was really fun having you here. I was going to start a thread, BUT since you did already.....also, I mentioned about today in the Performance series thread ( didn't know you would start a thread). I'll post it here also


A little off track, but since we're here.

Audiobeer came by today and bought my 4430's so he's got those on his mind. I'll just like to say he is very nice guy and a true gentleman.

Had a great time today ( even tho it was a little rushed ) and enjoyed meeting you Audiobeer. Hope you like the speakers and that your wife isn't to upset.

By the way.....she didn't know what speakers he was getting..think she's just now getting a good at those wonderful wife pleaser's..... :rotfl: :rotfl:

Hopefully we'll see each other again soon..

as soon as I get the pictures I'll do a thread on it

JBLnsince1959
07-28-2005, 06:02 PM
Sweet! :applaud:


Ok, I will admit that I did feel a pang at the sight of the 4430's. :wave: :rotfl:

Me too...strange to see my ex-speakers at another house....sigh

Well Whit, what you think about me selling my 4430's, I know how much you liked them...

JBLnsince1959
07-28-2005, 07:17 PM
I was very impressed with his setup......so much so that when he left the room I was just about out the door with it all when his guard dog pounced on me.

It's a shame we didn't have time play with the other stuff on the other two floors above us...

Now really...you and Whit bonded so good that I was concerned she might help you load the stuff :D

Audiobeer
07-28-2005, 08:00 PM
My wife just sat down and listened to her favorite CD. I was surprised that she didn't give me any crap over the larger boxy speakers. She thinks I'm done but soon the 4313Bs will crop back up for the HT segment. Let's be honest......if she can live with a pair of 4430s.....well let me put it another way. I thought I was going to have to be sleeping on the couch when I snuck these in, eventualy looking at the Dolly's in a new way. :D

bryantkenneth
07-29-2005, 03:55 PM
Cool thread.

pelly3s
07-29-2005, 10:04 PM
If only my 4430s looked that nice. Oh well cant win em all. Its nice to hear how this place brings people together.

Audiobeer
07-29-2005, 10:58 PM
JBLsince1959 really took care of them. I was really shocked at the difference in sound between my room and the one JBLsince1959 had them setup in. In his room it was remarkable, I mean absolutely stunning how well they imaged. I couldn't believe how easy it was to hear where the instruments were and where the singers stood. In one tracked he played it was damn near 3 dimensional with a singer 3' above my head and one and others all around. It was like a surround setup. In my room the performance dropped dramaticaly. It's not as lively and the feeling of being immersed is not there. I'm not a believer in the wire or cables making a difference to my ears so that won't be my first step. I have Hardwood floors and I auditioned them on carpeting. The placement is the same so I think when I get time and caught up with my work that's what I will try first. I have some good size scraps around. If that makes a difference then I will relax a bit and wait till I get the room done downstairs. I had read in a thread earlier where Edgewound had mentioned that hardwood floors were not the way to go. That is what JBLsince1959 has stated also. JBLdog has a pair and he is local so I may just wait till he is out the town and steal his carpet. He may not be the JBL ET but he knows how to set them up for performace. If the carpet doesn't help before moving them downstairs I'll swap out the preamp. Don't get me wrong the speakers sound great, but with a little help I think that the sound I heard from them will be recreated in Audio/Beer room!:D

Audiobeer
07-29-2005, 11:12 PM
If only my 4430s looked that nice. Oh well cant win em all. Its nice to hear how this place brings people together.

Road trip bud! Bring them down here as you pass through on route to a southerly vacation. Drop them off here in St. Louis. Give me a week and will give you the renewal they diserve. (DRIVERS STAY HOME) Costs are simple, If they are in fair shape 1 4313b, if they are rough 2 4313bs.

Zilch
07-30-2005, 12:13 AM
Audiobeer: Izzat a CRT TV there? If so, maybe swap left and right to get the driver magnet a little further away from it. It'll widen the stage, also.

Hardwood floor's a bad deal with 4430. Remember the horns are 100 in the vertical as well as the horizontal. They're shooting full power and frequency to reflect off the floor about 30" in front of them. If you're 5' in front or more, you're gettin' the first reflection full on.

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 07:04 AM
Audiobeer: Izzat a CRT TV there? If so, maybe swap left and right to get the driver magnet a little further away from it. It'll widen the stage, also.

Hardwood floor's a bad deal with 4430. Remember the horns are 100 in the vertical as well as the horizontal. They're shooting full power and frequency to reflect off the floor about 30" in front of them. If you're 5' in front or more, you're gettin' the first reflection full on.

10-4 on that!!!!

I'll really go into this one. I've never really gone into deph on these things ( cause most people won't believe me anyway so why waste my time), but I'll go a little under the surface here. But first.....

What you heard at my house was not Optimum, but was a BIG compromise...because the PS speakers were in the room I had to place the 4430's "Where I could" and work from there. I only spent about 15 minutes setting them up. What you didn't hear was the speakers in the best spot, or on stands, or with any room treatment ( in storage with my C-35's and subs) or any internal or external damping and all controls set flat; also the ports are back to normal AND I rewired them with standard 18 gauge wire inside ( radio shack).

I spend years Studing these puppies, making 3D maps of reflections, trying different wires, amps, pre-amps, sources, room treatments and placement, port settings, stands. I tried three basic configurations
1. Stand alone
2. MTM
3. HT
and in each of these I tried ( and studied and mapped) with the internal crossover ( 2way), active 2, 3 and 4 way ( My favorite was simple 2 way with internal crossover and applying Systems theory to the setup).
and I learned alot ( not everything but alot and there's alot more I haven't done yet)


Bottom-line ( it's time to get off my soapbox or God forbid Hi-horse) is that on a scale of 1 to 10 the sound you heard was only affected by the placement and the room... maybe a 1 or 2. The rest was WHAT I was sending the speakers and How I sent it.

Yes, the sound can be 3D... VERY 3D. It's a shame that you couldn't have heard them in the best setup and configuration...the sound and soundstage would have been almost Holographic.....a mind-blowing..shit-your-pants sound that I have only gotten from the 4430's.

On second thought, I'm not going to go into real depht on these things....I've said too much already.... :p

Someday ( afew years from now) I'll most likely buy another pair and start where I left off.....weeeeelllll...maybe ( there's always something new out there) :D :applaud:

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 07:20 AM
Oh yes, forgot to say...on a scale of 1 to 10 the sound and the stagestage you heard was about a 3 ( IMHO)...enough of that.

HEY Whit..are you still unhappy that I sold my 4430's, you sure have been giving me the "Evil-Eye" for the last few days........

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 07:25 AM
Now Whit...I'm really sorry about selling the 4430's, but look on the bright side. We've got the Performance Series to listen to, study and perfect. So how about it..Want to listen and help me with the Performance Series?

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 07:31 AM
Dog-gone-it Whit...You always take the "sweet-spot" when we listen to speakers..can you move over so I can hear too? Ok, all right, I'll sit on the floor as usual....

johnaec
07-30-2005, 07:51 AM
He's just jealous of the "new dogs" in the house...:D

John

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 08:23 AM
He's just jealous of the "new dogs" in the house...:D

John

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Audiobeer
07-30-2005, 08:29 AM
I pulled them apart 1' further and that made a great deal of difference. Thanks everyone! It's off to 3 - 4 hours of yardwork!

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 09:22 AM
I pulled them apart 1' further and that made a great deal of difference. Thanks everyone! It's off to 3 - 4 hours of yardwork!

Yes, first thing you want to do is to separate them as far as you can ( and test - listening to bass, mids and highs) then move them about 6 to 9" forward and toe-in a little..... Pay particualar attention to how far from the sides of the room they are and what's on them. ( and then of course apply and test what I PM'ed)

Put some El-Cheapo ( general dollar - garage sale) throw rugs on the floor ( mid-way might a good start - but again listen)

I'll PM the rest.....

take care and don't work too hard - if your weather is like ours..today is a good day for it..kinda mild compared to what it was last week.

This is my first weekend-off in over 4 months so I'm just going to play :dancin: :cheers: :banana:

Tweak48
07-30-2005, 10:12 AM
How do the 4430's compare with L-300s???????

I've heard both and own one, so I've got my own opinions. It would be helpful to know yours as well.

Thanks!!

Zilch
07-30-2005, 10:23 AM
How do the 4430's compare with L-300s???????
Apples and oranges, really. Different approaches to the same task:

4430: Spacious

L300: Focused

Audiobeer
07-30-2005, 10:45 AM
If appearances were my goal and if there was no great difference in the sound I'd take the L-300s. The appearance is important but the sound is more important. I have the 4430s now. The L-300s are easier to set up. The L-300s have a little better definition or edge when it comes to cymbals perhaps and sounds like that in the upper range......not by much mind you. In every other aspects though it's no contest and I don't even have them dialed in. I have owned 3 pairs of L-300s in the 4333A, 4333B, and the L-300. I had them on all surfaces and dialed them in defeating standing waves, reflections, ect. I say this to emphasize that I can make a fair comparison. So I'm pretty sure I have a good ideal of what they sound like. If I were to make a decision based on what I heard out of the initial setup in my home it would be a tough decision. If I base it on the way JBLsince1959 had my 4430s setup it was a no-brainer. The 4430s were hands down my choice. They are a little bigger although the footprint is the same, they are much less attractive, but they just sound to me to be a much more dramatic improvement in imaging and that "your there" 3d sound that I can easily over look the downside. They do seem to make shitty recordings sound just like that where the L-300s for caual listening away from the sweet spot was the winner. But if I want to sit down and listen to music that is recorded faithfully and sit in the sweet spot, again the 4430s. The real nice part about it is the price. I have seen the L-300s go for (Fair to near mint) $1500 - $3500. The 4430s since I looked for them went for $1000 to $1400. So "To Me" If you want to save some money, spend an extra 1/2 to 1 hour on the setup, not looking to make a furniture statement (If you want to call L-300s that), IMHO it was a no brainer. If you are looking for a 1-5 year return on your money still a no brainer. For right now, with the things am going through (Not bad comapred to most) I just want to listen to the music......and if I shit my pants like I did when I first heard these setup right at JBLsince 1959s place......well then it's a good thing. Now on the other hand if I was offered a pair of each and both were mint, I would take the L-300s. I would then sell the L-300s, buy a pair of 4430s and use the savings on more equipment and/or JBLs!!!!!!

Hey JBLsince1959, PM me with that CD title! :D

Audiobeer
07-30-2005, 10:48 AM
Apples and oranges, really. Different approaches to the same task:

4430: Spacious

L300: Focused

That is a more accurate assesment "Z" man! That's it in a nutshell! In the end it is what you are after.

JBLnsince1959
07-30-2005, 03:51 PM
How do the 4430's compare with L-300s???????

I've heard both and own one, so I've got my own opinions. It would be helpful to know yours as well.

Thanks!!

Zilch and Audiobeer hit the nail on the head.

I'll add my own here ( about the sound and not the sound stage) with my own A/B side by side test. The L-300's are ( at first blush) more "mid-range" friendly than the 4430's. It's neither good nor bad - just is.. I much perfere the 4430's over the L-300's ( hey it's just an opinion - you're milage may vary - no flames please). The 4430's are more balanced top to bottom than the 300's ( when done correctly) BUT to get that with the 4430's takes some time. I owned the 300's for a long time and thought they were wonderful but the 4430's win out to me - BIG TIME ( I hope the price of 4430's don't go up now). personaly, I left the 300's sound a long time ago.......

the 4430's are ( as I've said in other posts) some of the best speakers to hear equipment with ( uncolored). What I mean is that hook up a Marantz and it sounds like a marantz, MAC sounds like a MAC, hook up shit well.... etc... ( look for my other posts on the 4430's) However, the PS are way ahead of the 4430's in this department..... One more thing about the 4430's, they aren't for everybody...I think you have to be the right person, with the right room and very patient.


By the way NICE Dog, what his/her name?? how old??? and are those the 4425's on stands

Tweak48
07-30-2005, 06:20 PM
To my ear the 4430 is simply more musical. Enveloping and effortless.

I have L-300s in the living room, mostly for the visual benefit of the cabs than anything else. I had to stop an on-line auction, and pay $2400 for a pristine set (albeit with a B380 sub included), for the privilege of driving 500 miles to pick them up.

A couple of years before, I was presented with an opportunity to buy some 4430s from the estate of a local symphony musician for $900. I hesitated, and they were gone. I regret it to this day.


I'm not so sure that the 4425s in my family room don't sound better in many but not all aspects (like sheer dynamic capability for instance) than my L-300s, although bi-amping them made a huge improvement. For sure, there is no lacking in HF extension, at least to my 50 year old ears, in the two way 4425s. Yeah, they are on stands. My wife made 'em so they are equal height even though one sits on the hearth.


The dog is Maggie, a precocious 4 year old female sable German Shepherd. She has a very impressive bark in the middle of the night when she hears something, but if the burglar brought a tennis ball with him, I'd be out every piece of JBL I own.

JBLnsince1959
08-01-2005, 06:50 AM
The dog is Maggie, a precocious 4 year old female sable German Shepherd. She has a very impressive bark in the middle of the night when she hears something, but if the burglar brought a tennis ball with him, I'd be out every piece of JBL I own.

Great looking shepherd...I really like the sable look...yes, they do have "that" bark in the middle of the night ( or any time for that matter). Even when they just want to play it sound's like they could eat you :D

Gota love those shepherds. Whit ( mine) has been totally spoiled and stays with me all day and night ( I work out of my home) and always goes with me in the car. Those times I can't take her, she really put's on an act..hangs her head, moves slowly..BIG HAM and guilt-trip maker, that's how I got the first picture showing her sad.."Whit...you have to STAY" :(

when Audiobeer and I had to go to U-haul to get a dolly to move the speakers, she really put on an act and it worked...Audiobeer felt so sorry for her he said, "she can go in my van"..( My car needed work [ timing belt] and she hadn't been for a ride in two days). She really knows how to pull your chain....

anyway, great looking speakers and shepherd :applaud: ...enjoy both ( I know you will) :D

JBLnsince1959
08-01-2005, 11:10 AM
1.If I base it on the way JBLsince1959 had my 4430s setup it was a no-brainer. The 4430s were hands down my choice.

2. and if I shit my pants like I did when I first heard these setup right at JBLsince 1959s place......well then it's a good thing.



Issue 1 :

as I said, I only spent about 15 minutes hooking these things up ( OK MAYBE 25 minutes but I know these things and the room) AND the locations were dictated by the PS speakers. Wish you could have heard them really setup properly( location, wires, stands, port settings and room treatment, internal damping) - I spent years working it out -and still had a lot to do... new binding post and crossovers..etc But thanks again for the kind words on the setup... It's always nice when people can hear what you've done and learned....

Issue 2:

HAD I been able to set them up properly for you to listen to, then of course the complimentary pair of Depends would have been issued.... :D and of course the standard "smelling salts" as a standby ( had a few people faint) :applaud:

Damn... the more I write about them the more I want to get another pair...maybe 4435's this time..... seems to be a pair in S.Ca that need work......:hmm:

HEY Steve ( a friend) how much room do you have LEFT in your basement for storage? :slink: :duck: