JBL vs Tannoy

[whitese]

What would the Tannoy Monitor Gold 12"s have over lets say a JBL L-112...i know the fact that the Tannoy may have an inherent advantage somewhere due to its concentric design...Also considering that the JBL's are probably 1/3 to 1/4th the cost....

I have been offered a pair of the Tannoys...but at the cost differential, I may consider replacing my sold L-96's with the L112's...

["Duke" Spinner]

do you like he BBC sound ...???

[whitese]

Everything comes out with an accent?:D

I dont know really...but I am kind of tired of the polite/laid back sound of my Scan Speak drivers in my Odyssey Loreleis...and I am spinning my wheels with the modern stuff..I remember the L-96's sounding lively and super dynamic..almost like the Tannoy DMT12's I had..

[Ian Mackenzie]

If you've owned Scans you might be more deserving of something more up to date from either side of the Atlantic.

The Tannoy Revels are a very nice compact monitor as are the 4208 JBL.

But can you nudge a set of LSR32?

Ian

[whitese]

Issue is budget....up to 1800 bucks...thats why i always buy used..:o:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well is space is not an issue wait for a 4425 OR 443O on ebay or clone one.

Ian

[mike]

The Tannoy Dual Concentric drivers have a huge following with the "vintage" crowd and single-ended crowd. I think much of their value is collector's value, just like certain JBL drivers from the 50's and 60's are worth a fortune. I think that if you were to compare an L112 to a Tannoy Monitor Gold you would find that the L112 is actually better in some respects and possibly even better overall.

If you can't find another pair of L96's I would look for a pair of L110's. I prefer the L110's over the L112 myself.

Mike

[scott fitlin]

The Tannoy Dual Concentric drivers have a huge following with the "vintage" crowd and single-ended crowd. I think much of their value is collector's value, just like certain JBL drivers from the 50's and 60's are worth a fortune. I think that if you were to compare an L112 to a Tannoy Monitor Gold you would find that the L112 is actually better in some respects and possibly even better overall.

If you can't find another pair of L96's I would look for a pair of L110's. I prefer the L110's over the L112 myself.

Mike I have heard Tannoy dual concentrics in a recording studio many times! Ill tell you it is a different sound from JBL, the bass is different, maybe more accurate, less emphasis on the very deep bottom! But I always think they image amazingly well, very coherent, and much smoother in the mids compared to older Altec 604,s!

You gotta listen to both and decide what you prefer more! JBL or Tannoy! I know, Ive been of no help at all. :D

[Akira]

i have owned tannoy system 12DMT's which is their premiere monitor and superior (IMO) to the golds and big reds which i have used professionally. i have also owned 4312A's 4430's and L100's. i am a JBL nut and hopelessly addicted BUT!!! i puroposely purchased the tannoys over the 4430's because their boring flat phase coherent sound made it easier for other engineers walking blind into my studio to obtain a consistent product. this is why tannoy out sold JBL as the number one monitor in the studio (billboard) during the nineties. they are flush mounted in a professional architecturally designed recording studio. i biamp them using 1 bryston 4B for bass and horn (tannoy insists to use equal power) they deliver quite a thump on the bottom, but the horn has a smaller image when you sit out of mix position.
using the excellent internal cross over sounds the same but, the speaker looses some efficiency in terms of shear unadulterated gain.
this system uses a 12" dual concentric driver (IMO sounds better than the 15" ) but do not think that is equal to a 4311/12. volume wise the 300watt bass driver will blow the doors off those series of JBL. these speakers are rugged and will take abuse. the construction and build quality are noticeably superior in the tannoy over those series of JBL and thus the high cost.

personally i don't like their sound, and if you love the sound of JBL chances are you will agree with me. they sound flat and lifeless, very smooth, but they do not have the articulation and forward voicing in the critical 3k2 and 5k range. they do not 'float' as a jbl does when all the components are line up and deliver that effortless, present, engulfing sound. if you love JBL, you know what i mean.
p.s. i no longer have the studio and the tannoys are for sale!!!

[mikebake]

Issue is budget....up to 1800 bucks...thats why i always buy used..:o:

Performance Series PT800's.

[panos29]

During the last 4 weeks I have the chance to audition both Tannoy HPD385s and altec 604. I can easily tell that both sound excellent compared to "modern" speaker like scanspeak etc.

Their sound is alot more dynamic and full of life. However, while tannoy is the definition of easy listening and analytical enough the altecs are alot more dynamic and really amazing in this respect. Also tannoys have pin point accuracy at their imaging like no other speaker I ever heard, BUT only when you audition in a very precise and specific spot.

Basswize, I cannot easily judge as the altecs are in a huge bass reflex (620) and tannoys are in a horn loaded cabinet with 45Hz cuttof and sound very dynamic in the bass region while altec are not as good but I believe their cabinets are not very good compared to a horn loaded one. Recently I tried an altec 806 on 811bs on top of tannoys and I was blown by the HF dynamics.

I really know I was not of much help but I really believe you should give an audition before you buy, on the other hand tannoys are always a safe bet...if you do not like them its certain you will get more money selling them than you gave to acquire them. I believe that JBLs (have not heard them in comparison) are mor dynamic and powerfull in terms of sheer power and maybe a bit more analytical and accurate while tannoys are just a charm and easy listening combo, though many people do not like them in small (less than 100lt) bass reflex boxes.

[analogbass]

I bought both of them new, JBL 4425s and Tannoy DMT12s and have them side by side. Most of the assessments are either inaccurate or unclear, IMO. I've kept both because it's a toss up: comparable quality, different characteristics at opposite ends of the spectrum-one more refined and relaxed, the other more defined and powerful.

Tannoy-transparent, silky, musical, delicate, nuanced, vibrant, refined, especially the vocals/mids, which are spacious, lush and the strength of these speakers. Bass is substantial but diffuse, perhaps centered in the low-mids, without the solidity, tightness, warmth or deepness of the JBLs. Highs are beautifully textured. A more relaxed, refined, diffused sound. Soundstage is reasonable, and wider than the JBLs.

JBL-tight, concise, clear, focused, detailed though minimal transparency or soundstage, punchy, ballsy, powerful. More aggressive and slightly clearer than the more laid back, relaxed Tannoys. Dynamics are more pronounced, transients are faster. Bass is less pronounced than the Tannoys but sounds just right-tight, concise, powerful, organic and warm; one of it's strengths along with overall clarity and tightness. Mids are good and clear, just lacking the last degree of musicality and texture of the Tannoys. Highs are slightly clearer than the Tannoys, without the nuance.

$1,800 is more than enough to get either used on Ebay. The 12" drivers in these are a better bet than 15" versions of either, which are a little slower not to mention humungous.

[Akira]

I bought both of them new, JBL 4425s and Tannoy DMT12s. The 12" drivers in these are a better bet than 15" versions of either, which are a little slower not to mention humungous.

wish i had bought the 4425's before i bought the 4430's...then i probably would not have settled on the DMT12's. the 4430 is an excellent sounding speaker, full, rich, smooth and the horn image size can keep up with the speaker (my number one complaint against tannoy) but, i always thought it was better suited for home use. for studio monitoring i never agreed with the voicing.

[Dingusboy]

The 12" drivers in these are a better bet than 15" versions of either, which are a little slower not to mention humungous.

I found the 12" DMT's not as much to my liking and attribute it to the poly cone. My friend had the 12's and we both came to the conclusion the 15" DMT's sounded smoother and more lifelike.

I hope that doesn't sound like I'm picking a fight as ears and system synergy are all factors.

[analogbass]

Not at all, interested to hear others opinions.

IMO, the 12" drivers on either are as far as i want to go. My friend, a long-time Tannoy dealer, agrees that DMT 15s and 4430s look in his words, "ridiculous" given the size, while the 12"s still have more than enough bass and presence. Even if the 15" Tannoys are arguably marginally better to some, which is possible given the difference in the cones, it's not worth the difference to many to have something of that size. In fact, in the context of today's mini speakers and woofers, even 12" size monitors are pushing it to the casual listener. I suppose at some point we all have to make the decision that size doesn't matter, that the speakers in fact become part of the design and beauty of the room and can look great seeing it from that perspective, but for me 12" drivers is the limit. Maybe in a huge house or loft they would make more sense. A shame that neither Tannoy or JBL made my preference, a double 10", or double 12" monitors.

I don't think you can say which brand is better though, they're both excellent bordering on great-both have some weaknesses, both are great in most other respects and don't overlap on virtually any characteristic. They seem at the polar opposite ends of the spectrum-JBLs powerful, clear, fast and narrowly focused but not transparent or euphonic, the Tannoys euphonic and musical but diffused, a little slow, a little too full and lacking in tightness on bass.

The biggest complaint i have about Tannoys is always the bass. JBL bass is the benchmark IMO as well as being more accurate with better articulation, while the Tannoy low frequencies are louder but mushy rather than solid or organic, without the articulation of the JBLs. Maybe the bass is centered in the low-mids, but i'm not sure if that's the whole thing vs. just being the nature of the more polite Tannoy sound. The JBLs on the other hand, lack a little sparkle and musicality in comparison to the Tannoys; the horns are faster but the highs aren't as smooth though they're slightly clearer.

Unless you A-B them side by side though, they both sound great.
Would be nice to assemble a hybrid marrying the best attributes of the two..

I'd like to eventually hear some 4343s in comparison to the 4425s, or even the JBL/Altec hybrids mentioned above, in a smaller package. Any insights?

[Zilch]

I will add "euphonic" and "organic" to the listening lexicon here. :p

[analogbass]

Means zilch to me and to him i'm sure, for such vacuous, needlessly vindictive comments..guy's unable to find anything positive to contribute, apparently.

[analogbass]

Really? Even for what? I wasn't keeping score.

Anything of any real content to contribute for a change?

[Zilch]

The inane rhetoric is amusing, of course, but surely you can't expect your characterization of 4430's, a forum favorite, as "ridiculous" not to offend SOMEONE's sensibilities here.... :p

[DS-21]

I don't think you can say which brand is better though, they're both excellent bordering on great-both have some weaknesses, both are great in most other respects and don't overlap on virtually any characteristic. <snip>
The biggest complaint i have about Tannoys is always the bass. JBL bass is the benchmark IMO as well as being more accurate with better articulation, while the Tannoy low frequencies are louder but mushy rather than solid or organic, without the articulation of the JBLs.
<snip> Unless you A-B them side by side though, they both sound great.
Would be nice to assemble a hybrid marrying the best attributes of the two...

Hmm. I've never heard any mushiness or lack of articulation in the bass of big Tannoy studio monitors (15DMT II) or home speakers (D700, TD12). Quite the opposite: I thought the bass focus was spectacular. However, some of their pro monitors don't have the raw extension of JBL's in well-designed cabs. For example, I recently bought a pair of Tannoy CPA-12 stage monitors, which use a variant of the 12DMT's 12" Dual called the 3134. (They're not here yet, so all I can go by is computer models.) My intentions are to adapt the drivers to a home audio system. According to the T/S specs e-mailed me by someone at Tannoy NA, they've got perfect bass extension for HT or in a sat/sub type system (F3 of ~80Hz in a Bessel sealed enclosure) but anyone who thinks that it is usable as a full-range monitor is deluding themselves as even large ported enclosures have F3's of well above 50Hz.

That said, there really something is special about big JBL woofers (or at least relatively high-Qms and low-inductance woofers in general) and for my own tastes I've not found anything I like better than a Tannoy Dual on top of a JBL woofer. I've been experimenting with the Tannoy/JBL hybrid approach (Tannoy 2046, which is the 8" dual used in the System 800 studio monitor and a few other speakers, with JBL 2235H) and though my crossover is pretty unrefined up to this point it's instantly obvious even with a single speaker playing in mono that the approach has HUGE merit. Hopefully when the CPA-12's get here I'll move the 2046's into home theater duty and find that it's an even better match to the 2235H....

That reminds me, I need to drive down to Marietta and pick up my other 2235H from Gordon ASAP....

[speakerdave]

. . . . That said, there really is something special about big JBL woofers (or at least relatively high-Qms and low-inductance woofers in general) and for my own tastes I've not found anything I like better than a Tannoy Dual on top of a JBL woofer. . . . .
This is really very interesting and echoes a comment dropped in passing here a while back by one of our staunchest JBL loyalists (who shall remain unnamed).

David

[analogbass]

I'd like to try something like that.

I have no experience on what happens in combining two dispirate components together, how predictable the outcome is. Probably just trial and error, and should be interesting if not too expensive to experiment with. Anything you can share on what to expect on experimenting with different components..?

I've heard others mention the same thing about Tannoy; a pro musician friend referring to it as "false" bottom that is more pronounced on the larger drivers. What can i say, i listen to a lot of bass-heavy music; Tannoy low frequency is more pronounced but the sound itself doesn't quite hit the spot. Notice that you want to use the JBL components for low end, so apparently you agree. JBL low end just kicks ass better than anything else.

[Aussie Pete]

I had a pair of Tannoy Berkley's with HPD-385A drivers some years ago now, they are a very fine speaker with good imaging although I agree the bass was a little lacking and power handling was low at 80 Watts, I should have had the HPD-385A loaded into the larger Arden cabinets in hindsight for lower bass response. I also ran the HPD-385's bi-amped with a 12dB/octave Linkwitz Rieley filter which seemed to clean up the mids as well. Then I updated to 4430's http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif and have never looked back and in 1 week I should have my 4435's http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif yippee !!

[DS-21]

I'd like to try something like that.

I have no experience on what happens in combining two dispirate components together, how predictable the outcome is. Probably just trial and error, and should be interesting if not too expensive to experiment with. Anything you can share on what to expect on experimenting with different components..?

It's really not difficult at all. If you have a good speaker modeling program such as LEAP, Soundeasy, or lspCAD you can model the results with a very high degree of predictibility. There's nothing magical about a brand name, and neither drive-unit has odd behavior in the region you'd be likely to cross them over that will throw off the sonic signature of the whole system. I'm going passive - for now - which is more work and less flexibility but allows you to use a single amp channel per speaker. However, if you bi-amp and use something like a Behringer DCX2496 it's basically a plug-and-(measure, and listen, and repeat)-play process.


I've heard others mention the same thing about Tannoy; a pro musician friend referring to it as "false" bottom that is more pronounced on the larger drivers. What can i say, i listen to a lot of bass-heavy music; Tannoy low frequency is more pronounced but the sound itself doesn't quite hit the spot. Notice that you want to use the JBL components for low end, so apparently you agree. JBL low end just kicks ass better than anything else.

Another way to look at it is that a modern 8-12" Dual + 2235H is under $750 in drive units that come on the market fairly often, whereas a 15" Dual is both rarer and dearer. Also, in my experience Duals sound their best when they to move as little as possible. At high woofer excursions, the treble gets muddy. So a smaller Dual with a helper woofer just makes more sense to me.

While I've been a big Tannoy fan for years, I fell into the JBL thing more or less by accident. I don't have a pro audio background and most of the readily-available home speakers JBL has sold since in the last decade have been lame; the only good JBL speaker I'd heard before last summer was a coincident 6.5" driver their car audio division made in the 1990s. Then I saw a JBL quote-unquote subwoofer using two 2035H woofers lidyrf on Craigslist, and a 15" woofer with an inductance of only 0.25mH with a 7mm xmax caught my attention. Those wouldn't have worked with my plans without heavy EQ, but then I started to look at other JBL woofers. When someone I trust (Gordon Waters, a contributor here) posted that he had a newly reconed 2235H for sale somewhere, maybe at the Madisound or Parts Express fora, I paid more attention to that model. I ran the numbers, found that on paper it would be great for my project. So I snapped it up and here I am....

[Lancer]

What series replaced the Saturn series?

[Harryup]

I have Tannoy Monitor Gold 15" Alnico and I had the Gauss checked. Of 3 drives all of them had lost half of the magnet force. My 2241 was perfect 1,82T and 1.79T. So when you compare old drivers, maybe they are not perfect to begin with.

[GordonW]

What series replaced the Saturn series?

Officially, it was the Sensys series. But, the Sensys models are all smaller than the Saturn 8 and 10. The largest Sensys model is a 7" dual-concentric with a 7" woofer and a supertweeter, and is about $300 less per pair than the Saturn 8 ($1300 instead of $1600 for a pair).

There were a lot of us that kinda just scratched our heads, when Tannoy deleted the Saturn series. Way huge value for the money. Nothing in the consumer market I know of, of at or less than $2000 a pair, that could TOUCH a pair of Saturn 10s in their combination of sheer "whomp", bass definition and smoothness, pin-point imaging (from a WIDE variety of seating positions!), and just plain natural-sounding mids.

Though, that said, while the new Tannoy Eyris DC3 is somewhat smaller (7" woofers) and more expensive ($2700/pr) than the Saturn 10... I will say this: Of the speakers that we carry here at the store (and in fact, of any speaker under about $4000 a pair I've heard in quite a while), I'd take a pair of Eyris DC3s home with me, before anything else. They're just a remarkable combination of PROPERLY dynamic, PROPERLY flat and balanced, with unflappable bottom end (on virtually any amp, and I've tested them on a vast variety!), and amazing imaging/soundstaging in all 3 dimensions. It's just plain high-performance...

But, the idea of a Tannoy DC-style driver over a subwoofer, is something I've already done. I built a custom set of speakers with the driver from a Dimension TDC (8"), and a shorting-ring-equipped 12" woofer, with the woofer active-ampified. Simply the best thing I've heard, all respects of loudspeakers taken in toto. I'm currently building another version, with an 8" coax/DC driver, dual 10" woofers and triple 10" passive radiators...

Regards,
Gordon.

[GordonW]

I have Tannoy Monitor Gold 15" Alnico and I had the Gauss checked. Of 3 drives all of them had lost half of the magnet force. My 2241 was perfect 1,82T and 1.79T. So when you compare old drivers, maybe they are not perfect to begin with.

This is an extremely good point. Tannoy drivers should have a very-well-defined bottom end... maybe not as much "whomp" as a typical JBL cabinet, but usually, better "control" in the upper bass, and flatter response down to rolloff (none of the usual JBL "bass bump" around 40 Hz or so).

Regards,
Gordon.

[Lancer]

There were a lot of us that kinda just scratched our heads, when Tannoy deleted the Saturn series.I was confused as well.

Though, that said, while the new Tannoy Eyris DC3 is somewhat smaller (7" woofers) and more expensive ($2700/pr) than the Saturn 10... I will say this: Of the speakers that we carry here at the store (and in fact, of any speaker under about $4000 a pair I've heard in quite a while), I'd take a pair of Eyris DC3s home with me, before anything else. They're just a remarkable combination of PROPERLY dynamic, PROPERLY flat and balanced, with unflappable bottom end (on virtually any amp, and I've tested them on a vast variety!), and amazing imaging/soundstaging in all 3 dimensions. It's just plain high-performance...Ok, I'll look into them.

But, the idea of a Tannoy DC-style driver over a subwoofer, is something I've already done. I built a custom set of speakers with the driver from a Dimension TDC (8"), and a shorting-ring-equipped 12" woofer, with the woofer active-ampified. Simply the best thing I've heard, all respects of loudspeakers taken in toto.Yeah, a few years back I sold my last pair of 124H subs that went with a complete 5-channel Saturn setup and I'm still getting kudos from it. I'm considering a similar setup for my own personal use in a new room I'm working on.

Have you worked with the iw6 TDC or iw62 TDC at all?

Thanks for the post Gordon! :)